Guest guest Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 bear339@... wrote: > > > I don't have my actual results yet, I will be asking for them from my > doctor today, though. I know that ones TSH is supposed to be 0 or very > close to it, but what are the ranges for the T3 and T4, I tried looking > it up online with no success. There is no one standard. You need to get those ranges with your test results. They vary, especially between countries. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Correct; but in all of the ranges I've seen here none of them have an upper range close to zero. The most widely quoted upper limit for the new standard that I've seen is about 3. The reading near zero is one that many people seem to need in order to feel well, and is lower than many if not most doctors will recommend IMHO. > > Re: Iodine > <hypothyroidism/message/26765;_ylc=X3oDMTJxajVhZGJ\ 2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjY3NjUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3MDA3MjAwMA--> > > > > Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@... > <mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine> > gumbo482001 <gumbo482001> > > > Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:17 pm (PST) > > bear339@... <mailto:bear339%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > I don't have my actual results yet, I will be asking for them from my > > doctor today, though. I know that ones TSH is supposed to be 0 or very > > close to it, but what are the ranges for the T3 and T4, I tried looking > > it up online with no success. > > There is no one standard. You need to get those ranges with your test > results. They vary, especially between countries. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Iodine can be added to water to kill bacteria or whatever, but are you saying that our drinking water has significant quantities of iodine? If so, is it natural, or man added? I know we have fluoride in much of our drinking water, but not iodine. How much iodine is in water? Thanks, > Re: Iodine > <hypothyroidism/message/26769;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZjRmMDV\ xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjY3NjkEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3MDE1NzEzOA--> > > > > Posted by: " sesimplyme@... " sesimplyme@... > <mailto:sesimplyme@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine> > sesimplyme <sesimplyme> > > > Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:36 pm (PST) > > Chuck, what you are saying in this post makes a lot of sense. However, > I would argue that there are a lot of personal factors a person must > take into consideration when examining their own personal health issues. > > First, a lot of iodine in the average persons diet comes from drinking > water. When someone drinks only bottled water that has been filtered > and no longer has iodine, their iodine intake is decreased. Also, some > people, such as myself may never use table salt with their food. I > also don't use very many dressings, ketchup, syrup, etc. For someone > like myself, Kelp is very beneficial. > > My argument is I believe everyone needs to take into consideration > their own personal habits and make their own educated decisions. I > have been doing a lot of reading online and at bookstores and kelp is > highly debated. > > I really enjoy reading your posts Chuck, you are obviously very > educated in the matter. Thanks, > > Re: Iodine > > , > > You wrote: > > > > > > I am new to hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with autoimmune > > hypothyroidism a > > couple of months ago. I don't quite understand the whole kelp, > iodine thing > > but I do know that I eat kelp every couple of days. Is that bad? > > For you, potentially bad. > > The thyroid takes in iodine (iodide) from food you eat and turns it into > thyroid hormones, which you need to be healthy. So, one theory (#1) is > that a little extra iodine (from kelp) will help a weak thyroid do its > job. This logic clearly works if your diet is deficient in iodine. The > leading cause of mental retardation worldwide is lack of iodine, marked > by a high incidence of goiter in people living in areas with iodine > depleted soils. However, the amount of iodide needed to correct this > problem is tiny. It's the amount they put in table salt in developed > countries. So, the U.N. is busy raising money to put iodide in table > salt around the world. I wish all problems were that easy to solve. > > The logic of Theory #1 is not so compelling if you are not iodine > deficient. If you live in a developed country with iodized table salt at > the grocery store, odds are very good that you have enough in your diet > to prevent goiter and that particular cause of mental retardation in > your children. The question is whether you need more iodine than that. > Theory #2 (Gracia's) says that we need gobs more, many times more than > diets in developed countries can provide, more than the thyroid is > interested in processing, more than kelp gives you. > > Experimenting with Theory #2 can have two bad consequences. First, some > people find iodine at even just double the normal recommended level to > be toxic. This might be comparable to sulfite sensitivity, an iodine > sensitivity. The professional consensus, though, is that this > sensitivity is common enough to warrant telling everyone to back off, as > if iodine were universally toxic. Obviously, Gracia is doing well taking > plenty of iodine, so the commonly recognized problem cannot be universal. > > The second bad consequence is for your type of thyroiditis, caused by an > autoimmune condition, commonly called Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. Again, > the problems are not guaranteed to happen, but often, the extra iodine > triggers or accelerates the autoimmune attack. Thus, if you have > Hashimoto's and eat kelp, you are playing with fire. If your thyroid is > already completely dead and gone, the kelp probably won't make much > difference, none certainly according to Theory #1. It is insufficient, > according to Theory #2. > > FWIW, I don't spend money on kelp or other sources of iodine. Selenium > would be a better investment and lower risk. First and foremost, get > your thyroid meds properly titrated. > > Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 This is an excerpt from the book “WHAT YOUR DOCTOR MAY NOT TELL YOU ABOUT HYPOTHYROIDISM†by Ken Blanchard, M.D., Ph.D. p. 213 Drinking Bottled Water Exclusively In the United States, you have to go out of your way to not get salt in your food or public drinking water. Which is what many healthy people do because of reports that salt increases the risk of heart disease. But by doing so, you’re depriving your thyroid of one of its most important nutrients: iodine. Iodine is one of the building blocks of thyroid hormone. The “4†in T4 means four iodine atoms; the “3†in T3 means three iodine atoms. In iodine-deficient countries, hypothyroidism is epidemic. Goiters are a common abnormality. So if you follow the healthful habit of drinking only purified water, make sure to add a bit of salt to your food- and make sure that the salt is iodized. I am someone who drinks only bottled water and I do not use a lot of seasoning in my food. I can’t tell anyone else how to treat their thyroids, because I only know myself and my own eating habits. This is an excellent book that I highly recommend to anyone with a hypothyroid diagnosis. If you are serious about getting healthy research your illness from many different sources and learn what works for you. Re: Iodine > > , > > You wrote: > > > > > > I am new to hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with autoimmune > > hypothyroidism a > > couple of months ago. I don't quite understand the whole kelp, > iodine thing > > but I do know that I eat kelp every couple of days. Is that bad? > > For you, potentially bad. > > The thyroid takes in iodine (iodide) from food you eat and turns it into > thyroid hormones, which you need to be healthy. So, one theory (#1) is > that a little extra iodine (from kelp) will help a weak thyroid do its > job. This logic clearly works if your diet is deficient in iodine. The > leading cause of mental retardation worldwide is lack of iodine, marked > by a high incidence of goiter in people living in areas with iodine > depleted soils. However, the amount of iodide needed to correct this > problem is tiny. It's the amount they put in table salt in developed > countries. So, the U.N. is busy raising money to put iodide in table > salt around the world. I wish all problems were that easy to solve. > > The logic of Theory #1 is not so compelling if you are not iodine > deficient. If you live in a developed country with iodized table salt at > the grocery store, odds are very good that you have enough in your diet > to prevent goiter and that particular cause of mental retardation in > your children. The question is whether you need more iodine than that. > Theory #2 (Gracia's) says that we need gobs more, many times more than > diets in developed countries can provide, more than the thyroid is > interested in processing, more than kelp gives you. > > Experimenting with Theory #2 can have two bad consequences. First, some > people find iodine at even just double the normal recommended level to > be toxic. This might be comparable to sulfite sensitivity, an iodine > sensitivity. The professional consensus, though, is that this > sensitivity is common enough to warrant telling everyone to back off, as > if iodine were universally toxic. Obviously, Gracia is doing well taking > plenty of iodine, so the commonly recognized problem cannot be universal. > > The second bad consequence is for your type of thyroiditis, caused by an > autoimmune condition, commonly called Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. Again, > the problems are not guaranteed to happen, but often, the extra iodine > triggers or accelerates the autoimmune attack. Thus, if you have > Hashimoto's and eat kelp, you are playing with fire. If your thyroid is > already completely dead and gone, the kelp probably won't make much > difference, none certainly according to Theory #1. It is insufficient, > according to Theory #2. > > FWIW, I don't spend money on kelp or other sources of iodine. Selenium > would be a better investment and lower risk. First and foremost, get > your thyroid meds properly titrated. > > Chuck ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 sesimplyme@..., You quoted Dr. Ken Blanchard, > ... The “4†in T4 means four iodine atoms; the “3†in T3 means > three iodine atoms. ... This is exactly why you get a boat load of iodine if you are taking thyroxine replacement medications. Plus, most multi-vitamins include 100% of the RDA. Gracia is recommending a lot more than this. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Which still leaves my question: How much iodine is in drinking water? So I tried to find out, and found an article published by WHO [World Health Organization], which I assume are credible. I found quite a bit of information in this paper, but you have to skip down 12 or 14 pages to find it: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/chemicals/iodine.pdf The detection limit of iodine [iodide?] is 10 micrograms/liter. The mean concentration of iodine in the USA in drinking water is 4 micrograms/liter The maximum concentration of iodine in US drinking water is 18 micrograms/liter The average iodine intake from drinking water in the US is 8 micrograms; assuming we drink 2 liters per day. I did note that the paper quotes the discredited study of Japanese who consumed many times the recommended quantity with no ill effects. It was discovered many years later that there was a confusion on the units used in the study, and that the subjects only receive 1% to 10% of the iodine previously reported. I found another study that stated: " The average usual iodine intake of Korean adults was 479 micrograms per day " . However, it also stated that Koreans consume more iodine than other nationalities. Another study mentioned " ...the calculated requirement for adults (100 to 150 ug/day) " . I don't know how valid it is. > Re: Iodine > <hypothyroidism/message/26778;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaWY5NmJ\ lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjY3NzgEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3MDMyNzc5OA--> > > > > Posted by: " sesimplyme@... " sesimplyme@... > <mailto:sesimplyme@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine> sesimplyme > <sesimplyme> > > > Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:05 am (PST) > > > This is an excerpt from the book “WHAT YOUR DOCTOR MAY NOT TELL YOU > ABOUT HYPOTHYROIDISM” by Ken Blanchard, M.D., Ph.D. > > p. 213 Drinking Bottled Water Exclusively > > In the United States, you have to go out of your way to not get salt > in your food or public drinking water. Which is what many healthy > people do because of reports that salt increases the risk of heart > disease. But by doing so, you’re depriving your thyroid of one of its > most important nutrients: iodine. Iodine is one of the building blocks > of thyroid hormone. The “4” in T4 means four iodine atoms; the “3” in > T3 means three iodine atoms. In iodine-deficient countries, > hypothyroidism is epidemic. Goiters are a common abnormality. So if > you follow the healthful habit of drinking only purified water, make > sure to add a bit of salt to your food- and make sure that the salt is > iodized. > > I am someone who drinks only bottled water and I do not use a lot of > seasoning in my food. I can’t tell anyone else how to treat their > thyroids, because I only know myself and my own eating habits. This is > an excellent book that I highly recommend to anyone with a hypothyroid > diagnosis. > > If you are serious about getting healthy research your illness from > many different sources and learn what works for you. > > > Re: Iodine > > Iodine can be added to water to kill bacteria or whatever, but are you > saying that our drinking water has significant quantities of iodine? If > so, is it natural, or man added? I know we have fluoride in much of our > drinking water, but not iodine. How much iodine is in water? > > Thanks, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 you are calling 3 iodine atoms a boatload? Careful now darlin' or I might have to forward more info. Gracia sesimplyme@..., You quoted Dr. Ken Blanchard, > ... The “4†in T4 means four iodine atoms; the “3†in T3 means > three iodine atoms. ... This is exactly why you get a boat load of iodine if you are taking thyroxine replacement medications. Plus, most multi-vitamins include 100% of the RDA. Gracia is recommending a lot more than this. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.18/662 - Release Date: 1/31/2007 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.22/666 - Release Date: 2/3/2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I am a Hashi's patient and I also take a high dose of iodine daily. I was on 50 mgs. per day since last September. I have reduced the dose to 3 iodoral per day, mainly out of financial constraints. I was doing just fine on 4 per day. I think the " iodine docs " are onto something. I was sick my whole life and have never known what it is like to be well. I can testify to what enough Armour, Isocort and then HC, and Iodine can do. I feel better now than I have my entire life. Just because Allopathic medicine has a problem with iodine, doesn't mean there is something wrong with iodine. It is, after all, a necessary nutrient. I have been mis and undertreated by Allopathics my whole life and I am not about to start trusting their judgement now, especially when the docs I encountered over the past few years told that Armour was junk, unreliable, untested, made from cows (?!), and others patent untruths. I no have an M.D. for a doctor, I have a D.O. and am happy with the choice. As far as I am concerned, in my experience over the past 40 years, most Allopathic docs are dressed up and legal drug pushers. And my DH concurs. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 For many years I was very against iodine, for I felt convinced by the information out there. It wasn't until I started taking it, however, that I actually began to feel alive, very focused, positive, and a very steady level of stamina that I had experienced when I was 22 yrs old. (I'm 50) That very youthful, confident, grounded sense of yourself. I took a leap of faith, and I've found that each time I've chosen an alternative method for health care, I've been rewarded immeasurably. My health care is at the local Air Force base, and any provider I see will speak against iodine and against any other treatment for low thyroid accept Synthroid (levothyroxin). I have suffered severe allergies to the seasonal pollens here, and went to conventional docs, got all the best and latest meds and the injections, etc. I tried accupuncture, which I was very reluctant to do, but, was desperate, and took a leap of faith. I'll never go back to allergy meds again. I don't need to, accunpuncture relie ves 90% of my symptoms. I'm taking, I think it's 50 mg? of Iodoral daily in the am, my thyroid med is from Women's International Pharmacy in AZ, called Naturethroid, by the Westin company, and I've just increased the dose to 115mg per day. I've been having problems with larger than normal amounts of hair loss daily and still the heart palps, but, I'm seeing very steady positive results and know that I'm on the right track. I feel better than I have in years, all because I was willing to try something that I was initially against. I feel great! And getting better every day. Steph SJO :0) -------------- Original message -------------- From: <cccquilter@...> I am a Hashi's patient and I also take a high dose of iodine daily. I was on 50 mgs. per day since last September. I have reduced the dose to 3 iodoral per day, mainly out of financial constraints. I was doing just fine on 4 per day. I think the " iodine docs " are onto something. I was sick my whole life and have never known what it is like to be well. I can testify to what enough Armour, Isocort and then HC, and Iodine can do. I feel better now than I have my entire life. Just because Allopathic medicine has a problem with iodine, doesn't mean there is something wrong with iodine. It is, after all, a necessary nutrient. I have been mis and undertreated by Allopathics my whole life and I am not about to start trusting their judgement now, especially when the docs I encountered over the past few years told that Armour was junk, unreliable, untested, made from cows (?!), and others patent untruths. I no have an M.D. for a doctor, I have a D.O. and am happy with the choice. As far as I am concerned, in my experience over the past 40 years, most Allopathic docs are dressed up and legal drug pushers. And my DH concurs. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 hooray this is what I have found. there are wonderful things that work like Iodoral, cortef and Armour---why don't docs know about them?? (b/c they aren't from big pharma?) have you tried 25mg Iodoral 2X a day? I think you might need to increase the naturethroid. Gracia For many years I was very against iodine, for I felt convinced by the information out there. It wasn't until I started taking it, however, that I actually began to feel alive, very focused, positive, and a very steady level of stamina that I had experienced when I was 22 yrs old. (I'm 50) That very youthful, confident, grounded sense of yourself. I took a leap of faith, and I've found that each time I've chosen an alternative method for health care, I've been rewarded immeasurably. My health care is at the local Air Force base, and any provider I see will speak against iodine and against any other treatment for low thyroid accept Synthroid (levothyroxin). I have suffered severe allergies to the seasonal pollens here, and went to conventional docs, got all the best and latest meds and the injections, etc. I tried accupuncture, which I was very reluctant to do, but, was desperate, and took a leap of faith. I'll never go back to allergy meds again. I don't need to, accunpuncture relie ves 90% of my symptoms. I'm taking, I think it's 50 mg? of Iodoral daily in the am, my thyroid med is from Women's International Pharmacy in AZ, called Naturethroid, by the Westin company, and I've just increased the dose to 115mg per day. I've been having problems with larger than normal amounts of hair loss daily and still the heart palps, but, I'm seeing very steady positive results and know that I'm on the right track. I feel better than I have in years, all because I was willing to try something that I was initially against. I feel great! And getting better every day. Steph SJO :0) Recent Activity a.. 5New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hello everyone, I am so thankful for this group and everyone's priceless support has gotten me to where I am today. However, I have been reading all these emails about iodine and am still only halfway through my mailbox, but there is something I'd like to get off my chest. I am kind of sick of hearing people argue endlessly about it when there just aren't any up-to-date studies that can truly give us answers. There are studies in favor of and against iodine. Maybe if we could just say to everyone that it works tremendously well for some people (even in really high doses) and for others they have negative reactions even after miniscule amounts. I mean we can all argue about it until we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day there still just aren't any answers. No offense to anyone, ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Chuck, Pardon my miss-type, I don't know studies in favor of iodine ... I'm not doing the iodine thang. I suppose a better phrase would be peer testimonials or some such. From what I've heard people say here, they have experienced bennefits from iodine. , I understand your sentiment, and I am sorry if the discussion has become tiresome for you. You wrote: > ... There are studies in favor of and against iodine.... Can you name a study in favor of iodine? I have cited plenty about the risks, but no one seems to have any evidence in favor of large dose iodine except for " case studies " by people involved with Optimox. That is only anecdotal evidence. Chuck ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 , I understand your sentiment, and I am sorry if the discussion has become tiresome for you. You wrote: > ... There are studies in favor of and against iodine.... Can you name a study in favor of iodine? I have cited plenty about the risks, but no one seems to have any evidence in favor of large dose iodine except for " case studies " by people involved with Optimox. That is only anecdotal evidence. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Roni, You quoted from Wikipedia: > > ...[edit] Clandestine use > In the United States, the Drug Enforcement Agency > (DEA) regards iodine and compounds containing iodine > (ionic iodides, iodoform, ethyl iodide, and so on) as > reagents useful for the clandestine manufacture of > methamphetamine. Persons who attempt to purchase > significant quantities of such chemicals without > establishing a legitimate use are likely to find > themselves the target of a DEA investigation. Persons > selling such compounds without doing due diligence to > establish that the materials are not being diverted to > clandestine use may be subject to stiff penalties, > such as expensive fines or even imprisonment.[6][7] That is one reason why we stopped using iodine in our lab classes. It kept " disappearing. " Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 There sure seems to be lots of not therapeutic uses for iodine. I remember using it in the form of isodine (no alcohol) to put on my kids' scrapes and cuts. I also distinctly remember them giving my mother iodine until they diagnosed her with a thyroid tumer which they removed, with the thyroid. Then she was given Armour, then Thyrolar. Roni --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > Roni, > > You quoted from Wikipedia: > > > > ...[edit] Clandestine use > > In the United States, the Drug Enforcement Agency > > (DEA) regards iodine and compounds containing > iodine > > (ionic iodides, iodoform, ethyl iodide, and so on) > as > > reagents useful for the clandestine manufacture of > > methamphetamine. Persons who attempt to purchase > > significant quantities of such chemicals without > > establishing a legitimate use are likely to find > > themselves the target of a DEA investigation. > Persons > > selling such compounds without doing due diligence > to > > establish that the materials are not being > diverted to > > clandestine use may be subject to stiff penalties, > > such as expensive fines or even > imprisonment.[6][7] > > That is one reason why we stopped using iodine in > our lab classes. It > kept " disappearing. " > > Chuck > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 , You wrote: > ...From what I've heard people say here, they have experienced > bennefits from iodine. Understood, but since the vast majority of hypoT people seem to do well on synthetic T4, it seems a good recommendation to try that first, play the statistics. If you still have symptoms, then consider the alternatives. That being said, we have observed at least three patterns of not giving it a fair chance on this list. 1. First, we have people that say they were miserable on 50 or 75 mcg of T4 and only began to feel well when they switched to Armour, at least 2 or 3 grains worth. They blame the T4 for the " side effects, " when they were simply under dosed and could get all the iodine they need from the right amount of thyroid meds. 2. We have quite a few people with sensitivity reactions to sulfites or dyes they put in Synthroid or the generics. For these folks, it might be worth the extra trouble to find versions without the offending additives. Anyone with a sensitivity reaction should be particularly careful about trying large doses of iodine. 3. Finally, some people do not follow the guidelines for taking the medications away from meals and supplements. Gracia, for example, says she takes her Armour with meals and just adjusts the dosage to match the symptoms. Studies on both humans and various animals show that taken with food, only about 50% of any type of thyroxine is absorbed, even less for someone taking calcium or iron supplements. This might explain why Gracia can take more than double the recommended maximum dose of Armour. If someone does that with Synthroid, as my own mother did for awhile, it could be the cause for it not working or what is perceived as " side effects. " Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 There is an ongoing " study " . For more info see: http://www.breastcancerchoices.org Sam > > ... There are studies in favor of and against iodine.... > > Can you name a study in favor of iodine? I have cited plenty about the > risks, but no one seems to have any evidence in favor of large dose > iodine except for " case studies " by people involved with Optimox. That > is only anecdotal evidence. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Sam wrote: > > > There is an ongoing " study " . For more info see: > http://www.breastcancerchoices.org <http://www.breastcancerchoices.org> Can you name one study that has actually been completed and reviewed? Also, as important as breast cancer is, what does this have to do with hypoT? Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Sam, for someone versed in the sciences the term " study " has reference to research that can withstand the rigors of the peer review process. If the site you reference has produced such then it would be of interest to such a person. Anecdotal evidence has no standing in such a venue. > > Re: Iodine > <hypothyroidism/message/29150;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNmxkODl\ hBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYwMTIzNA--> > > > > Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@... > <mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine> > stealthwind <stealthwind> > > > Wed Jul 4, 2007 6:33 pm (PST) > > There is an ongoing " study " . For more info see: > http://www.breastcancerchoices.org <http://www.breastcancerchoices.org> > > Sam > > > > > ... There are studies in favor of and against iodine.... > > > > Can you name a study in favor of iodine? I have cited plenty about > the > > risks, but no one seems to have any evidence in favor of large dose > > iodine except for " case studies " by people involved with Optimox. > That > > is only anecdotal evidence. > > > > Chuck > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Chuck- I understand everything you're saying. However, even despite the perfect amount of thyroid meds for a person I deffinitely still believe that other vitamins, minerals and nutrients in addition to the thyroid meds can make them feel even better ... for some people that may even be true for iodine, it's not like they would lie about the bennefits they are getting from it, ya know? In regards to what you said as people being under dosed on T4 meds and that is why they experience symptoms, I think you are totally right and I think they are under-medicated BECAUSE it is a T4 med-only. I experienced that first hand. On $ynthroid my TSH was like 1 or something but my T3 total wasn't even in the normal range and my free T3 was totally in the dumps. This was the highest dose at 75 mcg anyone would give me and that was when I was recovering from a TSH of 43, as you may remember. Doctors said that I wasn't under-medicated so maybe you'd like to talk to them about the whole T-4 thing. And last but certainly not least I take these studies that say that " the vast majority of people are satisfied with T4-only meds " with an itsy-bitsy grain of salt. Based on books that I have read, internet, this group, personal, and friends and families experiences I believe that your statement should be the reverse " most people do well on T4, and T3 meds " while the minority is okay on T4-only meds. I'm not trying to be sassy, I just don't buy it. T4, T3, T2, AND T1 - 4EVER, , You wrote: > ...From what I've heard people say here, they have experienced > bennefits from iodine. Understood, but since the vast majority of hypoT people seem to do well on synthetic T4, it seems a good recommendation to try that first, play the statistics. If you still have symptoms, then consider the alternatives. That being said, we have observed at least three patterns of not giving it a fair chance on this list. 1. First, we have people that say they were miserable on 50 or 75 mcg of T4 and only began to feel well when they switched to Armour, at least 2 or 3 grains worth. They blame the T4 for the " side effects, " when they were simply under dosed and could get all the iodine they need from the right amount of thyroid meds. 2. We have quite a few people with sensitivity reactions to sulfites or dyes they put in Synthroid or the generics. For these folks, it might be worth the extra trouble to find versions without the offending additives. Anyone with a sensitivity reaction should be particularly careful about trying large doses of iodine. 3. Finally, some people do not follow the guidelines for taking the medications away from meals and supplements. Gracia, for example, says she takes her Armour with meals and just adjusts the dosage to match the symptoms. Studies on both humans and various animals show that taken with food, only about 50% of any type of thyroxine is absorbed, even less for someone taking calcium or iron supplements. This might explain why Gracia can take more than double the recommended maximum dose of Armour. If someone does that with Synthroid, as my own mother did for awhile, it could be the cause for it not working or what is perceived as " side effects. " Chuck ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I take T4 for only and am fine. I have taken T4 and T3 which was great at first, but years later caused problems. It's nice to have the option of T3 therapy, but it's not the answer for everyone. I would like to point out that you will not find the people who do well on T4 only meds here - they have no reason to seek out these groups, write books, mention the disorder to friends, or post on the internet. It is very misleading to believe that the one with the most information on the internet means everyone is dissatisfied with T4 only therapy. -S > > ...From what I've heard people say here, they have experienced > > bennefits from iodine. > > Understood, but since the vast majority of hypoT people seem to do well > on synthetic T4, it seems a good recommendation to try that first, play > the statistics. If you still have symptoms, then consider the > alternatives. That being said, we have observed at least three patterns > of not giving it a fair chance on this list. > 1. First, we have people that say they were miserable on 50 or 75 mcg of > T4 and only began to feel well when they switched to Armour, at least 2 > or 3 grains worth. They blame the T4 for the " side effects, " when they > were simply under dosed and could get all the iodine they need from the > right amount of thyroid meds. > > 2. We have quite a few people with sensitivity reactions to sulfites or > dyes they put in Synthroid or the generics. For these folks, it might be > worth the extra trouble to find versions without the offending > additives. Anyone with a sensitivity reaction should be particularly > careful about trying large doses of iodine. > > 3. Finally, some people do not follow the guidelines for taking the > medications away from meals and supplements. Gracia, for example, says > she takes her Armour with meals and just adjusts the dosage to match the > symptoms. Studies on both humans and various animals show that taken > with food, only about 50% of any type of thyroxine is absorbed, even > less for someone taking calcium or iron supplements. This might explain > why Gracia can take more than double the recommended maximum dose of > Armour. If someone does that with Synthroid, as my own mother did for > awhile, it could be the cause for it not working or what is perceived as > " side effects. " > Chuck > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I know of 3 ppl on T4 only meds. actually one is now on Armour but extremely underdosed (the old 1-2 grains rule I guess). She feels better on Armour but her doc won't give her more ( " come back for your TSH test next year) " . On T4 meds she was very moody, hard to talk to, now she is more fun but exhausted. Abbey has been on t4 meds since age 14. She is 30 now, has had 2 cesarean births and cannot breastfeed (thyroid/iodine related). She is very hard to talk to, just has " attitudes " (maybe it's me?) and weight issues, always dieting. Cony has Down syndrome and he is a sweetie, but looks awful---pale and fat. He is labeled OCD so on noritryptiline high dose and GERD drugs. I guess you have to know what to look for. All these peeps on T4 meds aren't getting proper care IMHO. Their docs just don't know it. Standard of care very poor. Gracia Chuck- I understand everything you're saying. However, even despite the perfect amount of thyroid meds for a person I deffinitely still believe that other vitamins, minerals and nutrients in addition to the thyroid meds can make them feel even better ... for some people that may even be true for iodine, it's not like they would lie about the bennefits they are getting from it, ya know? In regards to what you said as people being under dosed on T4 meds and that is why they experience symptoms, I think you are totally right and I think they are under-medicated BECAUSE it is a T4 med-only. I experienced that first hand. On $ynthroid my TSH was like 1 or something but my T3 total wasn't even in the normal range and my free T3 was totally in the dumps. This was the highest dose at 75 mcg anyone would give me and that was when I was recovering from a TSH of 43, as you may remember. Doctors said that I wasn't under-medicated so maybe you'd like to talk to them about the whole T-4 thing. And last but certainly not least I take these studies that say that " the vast majority of people are satisfied with T4-only meds " with an itsy-bitsy grain of salt. Based on books that I have read, internet, this group, personal, and friends and families experiences I believe that your statement should be the reverse " most people do well on T4, and T3 meds " while the minority is okay on T4-only meds. I'm not trying to be sassy, I just don't buy it. T4, T3, T2, AND T1 - 4EVER, , Recent Activity a.. 4New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 S- I never said that t4/t3 meds are the one and only solution and work for everyone. I'm sure you are fine on T4 only. All I'm saying is I don't buy these studies that say that MOST people are doing fine on T4-only meds. I have already covered that when I say that, I am including opinions of more people than just this group and the internet. You make it sound like there is more attention on T4 and T3 out there but I don't find that true. MOST doctors push for synthroid, etc. We here are not the majority. S, you said: I take T4 for only and am fine. I have taken T4 and T3 which was great at first, but years later caused problems. It's nice to have the option of T3 therapy, but it's not the answer for everyone. I would like to point out that you will not find the people who do well on T4 only meds here - they have no reason to seek out these groups, write books, mention the disorder to friends, or post on the internet. It is very misleading to believe that the one with the most information on the internet means everyone is dissatisfied with T4 only therapy. -S --- In _hypothyroidism@hypothyroidihyp_ (mailto:hypothyroidism ) , bear339@, be > Chuck- > I understand everything you're saying. However, even despite the perfect > amount of thyroid meds for a person I deffinitely still believe that other > vitamins, minerals and nutrients in addition to the thyroid meds can make them feel > even better ... for some people that may even be true for iodine, it's not > like they would lie about the bennefits they are getting from it, ya know? In > regards to what you said as people being under dosed on T4 meds and that is why > they experience symptoms, I think you are totally right and I think they are > under-medicated BECAUSE it is a T4 med-only. I experienced that first hand. On > $ynthroid my TSH was like 1 or something but my T3 total wasn't even in the > normal range and my free T3 was totally in the dumps. This was the highest dose > at 75 mcg anyone would give me and that was when I was recovering from a TSH of > 43, as you may remember. Doctors said that I wasn't under- medicated so maybe > you'd like to talk to them about the whole T-4 thing. And last but certainly > not least I take these studies that say that " the vast majority of people are > satisfied with T4-only meds " with an itsy-bitsy grain of salt. Based on books > that I have read, internet, this group, personal, and friends and families > experiences I believe that your statement should be the reverse " most people do > well on T4, and T3 meds " while the minority is okay on T4-only meds. I'm not > trying to be sassy, I just don't buy it. > T4, T3, T2, AND T1 - 4EVER, > > , > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Chuck- Well then this self deception sure is working out well for them! I should have thought of that before, I could have saved a whole lot of money just convincing myself that synthroid was great and maybe even that I don't have a thyroid problem at all. :-) , You wrote: > > ... for some people that may even be true for iodine, it's not > like they would lie about the bennefits they are getting from it, ya > know? ... There is a reason why clinical trials ALWAYS use a double blind format. People have a well known capacity for self deception, among other things. Chuck ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 , You wrote: > > ... for some people that may even be true for iodine, it's not > like they would lie about the bennefits they are getting from it, ya > know? ... There is a reason why clinical trials ALWAYS use a double blind format. People have a well known capacity for self deception, among other things. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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