iodine

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

I have tried to think of another medication that would or has been rxd that

way, and cannot.

What is going on in your body's organs is going on all the time. Another thing

is that stress

is not only from physical exercise, but also from mental exertion and

emotional exertion

too. You are, after all, an integrative organism and everything interracts

with everything

else. I believe I have read from you that you subscribe to that too.

Roni

Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

Roni,

Exercise consumes T3 significantly faster than just resting. My

conversion rate seems to keep up with the demand unless I am physically

active. So, the extra T3 only seems to be needed when working. That is

why I wanted it as a supplement to the regular T4 dosage which was

titrated to a " normal " work day, which is unfortunately rather

sedentary. Taking extra T3 under those conditions could push me into

hyperT territory.

Conversely, people titrated with regular heavy exercise should be

careful about going hyperT, if they are ever incapacitated and cannot be

active.

Chuck

You wrote:

>

>

> I think you will find that if you feel better with the addition

> of the T3, that you will want to take it on a regular basis.

> I don't really see the idea of depriving your body of what

> it needs unless you want to exert yourself. If it helps

> with the exertion, it must also be helping when not.

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Roni Molin wrote:

>

> I have tried to think of another medication that would or has been rxd

> that way, and cannot....

Glucose? Insulin? Oxygen? Water? Salt? Food in general?

T3 is consumed more rapidly during exercise. Yes, our resting metabolism

also processes T3 (and glucose, oxygen, water, and food), but exercise

uses it more rapidly. When I was originally titrated, I was not active

at all. I simply didn't feel that well. However, as I try to increase my

exercise level, I find that not only is my prescription for T4 going up,

the conversion to T3 simply isn't enough to sustain activity.

Also, the pattern of taking something right before exercise is exactly

how Cytomel was once used, although at much higher doses.

Chuck

>...What is going on in your body's organs is going on all the time. Another

> thing is that stress

> is not only from physical exercise, but also from mental exertion and

> emotional exertion

> too. You are, after all, an integrative organism and everything

> interracts with everything

> else. I believe I have read from you that you subscribe to that too.

>

[Guest guest]

Would you not try Armour to see if it makes you feel better all the time?

Roni

Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

Roni Molin wrote:

>

> I have tried to think of another medication that would or has been rxd

> that way, and cannot....

Glucose? Insulin? Oxygen? Water? Salt? Food in general?

T3 is consumed more rapidly during exercise. Yes, our resting metabolism

also processes T3 (and glucose, oxygen, water, and food), but exercise

uses it more rapidly. When I was originally titrated, I was not active

at all. I simply didn't feel that well. However, as I try to increase my

exercise level, I find that not only is my prescription for T4 going up,

the conversion to T3 simply isn't enough to sustain activity.

Also, the pattern of taking something right before exercise is exactly

how Cytomel was once used, although at much higher doses.

Chuck

>...What is going on in your body's organs is going on all the time. Another

> thing is that stress

> is not only from physical exercise, but also from mental exertion and

> emotional exertion

> too. You are, after all, an integrative organism and everything

> interracts with everything

> else. I believe I have read from you that you subscribe to that too.

>

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Roni Molin wrote:

>

> Would you not try Armour to see if it makes you feel better all the time?

I feel fine all the time now, except when I have heavy yard work to do.

My doctor's initial quip was that teenagers are that way without a

thyroid problem.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

LOL, isn't that the truth. one of my specialties is adolescent medicine- I LOVE

teenagers , but they CAN drive me crazy sometimes.

nancie

----- Original Message -----

Roni Molin wrote:

>

> Would you not try Armour to see if it makes you feel better all the time?

I feel fine all the time now, except when I have heavy yard work to do.

My doctor's initial quip was that teenagers are that way without a

thyroid problem.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Yea, but their recovery time seems

to be substantially less than yours. <wink>

Sam

> >

> > Would you not try Armour to see if it makes you feel better all

the time?

>

> I feel fine all the time now, except when I have heavy yard work to

do.

>

> My doctor's initial quip was that teenagers are that way without a

> thyroid problem.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

No, teenagers are that way because of a mental problem. It's called " Aw, do I

hafta? "

Roni

Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

Roni Molin wrote:

>

> Would you not try Armour to see if it makes you feel better all the time?

I feel fine all the time now, except when I have heavy yard work to do.

My doctor's initial quip was that teenagers are that way without a

thyroid problem.

Chuck

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Sam,

You wrote about teenagers at work:

>

> Yea, but their recovery time seems

> to be substantially less than yours. <wink>

True. The instant you tell them they can quit, they are ready to party.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Sssoooooo true, LOL jk :-)

Peace,

--- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> Sam,

>

> You wrote about teenagers at work:

> >

> > Yea, but their recovery time seems

> > to be substantially less than yours. <wink>

>

> True. The instant you tell them they can quit, they

> are ready to party.

>

> Chuck

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

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[Guest guest]

for those interested in iodine.... or not....

nancie

Iodine

Iodine is vital for good thyroid function, which in turn is essential for

health. Iodine deficiency during pregnancy and early infancy can result in

cretinism (irreversible mental retardation and severe motor impairments). In

adults low iodine intake (or very high intakes) can cause hypothyroidism.

Hypothyroidism can manifest as low energy levels, dry or scaly or yellowish

skin, tingling and numbness in extremities, weight gain, forgetfulness,

personality changes, depression, anaemia, and prolonged and heavy periods in

women. Goiter, an enlarged thyroid gland visible between the Adam's apple and

the collar bone, is often present. Hypothyroidism can also cause carpal tunnel

syndrome and Raynaud's phenomenon. Hypothyroidism can lead to significant

increases in cholesterol levels and homocysteine levels is implicated in about

10% of cases of high cholesterol levels. Correcting hypothyroidism can lead to a

30% drop in cholesterol and homocysteine levels.

An iodine intake of less than 20 micro grams (µg) per day is considered severe

deficiency, 20 -50 µg/day is considered moderate deficiency and 50-100 µg/day is

considered mild deficiency.

Iodine is typically undesirably low (about 50 micrograms/day compared to a

recommended level of about 150 micrograms per day) in UK vegan diets unless

supplements, iodine rich seaweeds or foods containing such seaweeds (e.g. Vecon)

are consumed. The low iodine levels in many plant foods reflects the low iodine

levels in the UK soil, due in part to the recent ice-age. About half the iodine

consumption in the UK comes from dairy products. In the US iodised salt is

widely used and some other foods are fortified with iodine. In Canada all table

salt is iodized. The UK has no iodine fortification strategy for plant foods or

salt.

Low zinc intakes exacerbate the effect of low iodine intake. Some otherwise

healthful foods contain goitrogens - substances which can interfere with iodine

uptake or hormone release from the thyroid gland. These foods are generally only

a concern if iodine intake is low. Consumption of brassicas, such as cabbage,

Brussels sprouts, broccoli and cauliflower, increase the requirements for

iodine, especially if consumed raw. Soy beans, raw flaxseed, cassava (used in

tapioca), sweet potatoes, lima beans, maize and millet also increase the

requirements for iodine.

It is important not to over-consume iodine as it has a relatively narrow range

of intakes that reliably support good thyroid function (about 100 to 300

micrograms per day). Someone consuming large amounts of iodised salt or seaweeds

could readily overdo it. Excessive iodine has a complex disruptive effect on the

thyroid and may cause either hypothyroidism or hyperthyroidism, in susceptible

individuals, as well as increasing the risk of thyroid cancer. Hyperthyroidism

may also occur, particularly in elderly people, due to long term slight iodine

deficiency as this may result in additional nodules on the thyroid.

Hyperthyroidism may manifest as an enlarged thyroid (goiter), heart rate

irregularities, tremor, sweating, palpitations, nervousness and increased

activity and eye abnormalities. Some individuals deliberately take kelp to try

to lose weight by over stimulating the thyroid. This is a dangerous practice.

Subclinical hypothyroidism, with raised thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) levels

but mild or absent overt symptoms, has been found to be more common among vegans

than the general population. Most vegans have low iodine intakes but a

significant minority consume excessive amounts of iodine from seaweed,

particularly kelp. Both low and excessively high iodine intakes in vegans have

been linked to elevated TSH levels.

The key to good thyroid function is adequate, but not excessive iodine intake.

Intakes in the range 100-300 micrograms per day are desirable, though intakes up

to 500 micrograms per day are probably not harmful. If taking supplements go for

about 100-150 micrograms per day, to give a total intake of 150-200 micrograms

per day. The supplements supplied by The Vegan Society contain an average of

about 150 micrograms, so one a day provides about the right amount. Many kelp

supplements contain higher levels and should be restricted to two a week.

If using seaweeds as an iodine source it is best to use seaweeds that have been

found to have a fairly consistent iodine content, such as kelp (kombu).

Consumption of more than 100g/year (by dried weight) of most seaweeds carries a

significant risk of thyroid disorder due to iodine intakes in excess of 1000

micrograms per day.

Nori is low in iodine and several sheets a day can be eaten without any concern

about excess iodine. Frequent addition of small amounts of powdered or crumbled

seaweed to stews or curries while cooking, or to other foods as a condiment, is

an excellent way to provide adequate iodine (in the absence of other

supplementation) and is a healthful practice for vegans. 15g of dried kombu or

kelp in a convenient container in the kitchen provides one year's supply for one

person.

Most vegans know that B12 deficiency can cause neurological complications and

tingling sensations or numbness. B 12 deficiency is also a common cause of

elevated homocysteine levels in vegans. It should be noted that hypothyroidism

(myxedema) can also cause nerve damage, tingling sensations and elevated

homocysteine and should be considered as an alternative diagnosis for these

symptoms.

Advice on how to check for goiter:

www.aace.com/public/awareness/tam/2006/pdfs/NeckCheckCard.pdf (Please note that

this check card is in PDF format, so you will need a PDF viewer such as Adobe

Acrobat installed on your computer).

Thyroid function can be readily tested by doctors based on a blood sample and

measurement of thyroid related hormone levels.

Information courtesy of Walsh

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/iodine.php

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi Chuck,

First off, don't get me wrong. I'm on the other side of the fence

about Iodine. I took some because I thought that I was sweating

it out too quickly with lots of sauna and workouts, and as another

poster poignantly put it, it kicked my ass.

You wrote:

> The logic of this hypothesis is faulty. The reason the thyroid

> accumulates iodine is not as repository for the rest of the body.

> Instead, it converts essentially all of the " stored " iodine into T4 and

> T3, which are then distributed to the rest of the body. Peripheral

> deiodization releases this iodine back into the blood, part of which is

> removed as waste and part which returns to the thyroid for recycling.

So, I've got a couple questions about this.

1. Is the only way that iodine may leave the thyroid gland is to

be incorporated in a thyroid hormone?

2. Does iodine participate in any other activities in the body. Is

it just used in thyroid hormones, or could it play some other role.

> If the thyroid is removed but the hormone production is fully replaced,

> then the peripheral tissues still get the same input concentration of

> iodine as before. If anything, the need for iodine in the body should be

> less, because all of the released iodine must be eliminated without the

> gland's recycling function, and because T4 type medications actually

> have a higher iodine density than a T4/T3/T2 mixture.

If somebody has no thyroid, it seems foolhardy to give them only T4.

> OTOH, since most of the alleged harm of excess iodine involves damage to

> the thyroid or the induction of Hashi's thyroiditis, it is not clear

> that excess iodine would be as dangerous to someone who is hypoT, as

> long as there is not allergic reaction to iodized haptens.

Again, I can speak from experience that iodine is not good for me.

I'm just trying to make sense of these conflicting messages. Some

people swear by it. Some of those people have no thyroid gland.

Granted it is a small data sample, but there does seem to be

a correlation.

So, can you pose a plausible hypothesis about why some people

apparently benefit from iodine, while it makes people like me

sick?

I know that the power of placebo is a potent force, but does it explain

everything?

[Guest guest]

Mike,

You wrote:

>

> 1. Is the only way that iodine may leave the thyroid gland is to

> be incorporated in a thyroid hormone?

Pretty much, yes.

> 2. Does iodine participate in any other activities in the body. Is

> it just used in thyroid hormones, or could it play some other role.

There is relatively little evidence for any other role. It does seem to

relieve fibrocystic breast pain and may reduce risk of breast cancer,

but other benefits are at best controversial. It also concentrates in

the salivary glands.

> If somebody has no thyroid, it seems foolhardy to give them only T4.

Not at all. The vast majority of hypoT do very well on T4 only. The

peripheral organ conversion of T4 to T3 seems to be quite adequate for

most of us.

> Again, I can speak from experience that iodine is not good for me.

>

That is consistent with the published literature.

> So, can you pose a plausible hypothesis about why some people

> apparently benefit from iodine, while it makes people like me

> sick?

It is definitely dangerous for people with Hashi's. For those who do not

suffer from an allergic reaction to it, it seems to act as a CNS

stimulant. My suspicion is that the benefit is mainly psychological.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Sorry for all the questions Chuck.

You are such a wealth of information, and I appreciate your logical, cogent and

concise

answers.

[Guest guest]

Mike,

Thanks. I keep trying.

Chuck

>

>

> Sorry for all the questions Chuck.

>

> You are such a wealth of information, and I appreciate your logical,

> cogent and concise answers.

[Guest guest]

trying my patience.

anonymous

Mike,

Thanks. I keep trying.

Chuck

>

>

> Sorry for all the questions Chuck.

>

> You are such a wealth of information, and I appreciate your logical,

> cogent and concise answers.

[Guest guest]

People people people, I hereby formally bow out of the great iodine debate.

Remember, cavaet emptor, and YMMV. Take this with a grain of non-iodized salt!

Best to all, and have a great day!

> trying my patience.

> anonymous

>

>

> Mike,

>

> Thanks. I keep trying.

[Guest guest]

Mike,

You wrote:

>

> People people people, I hereby formally bow out of the great iodine debate.

You may miss out on all the fun!

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Large quantities of iodine can be dangerous because the thyroid gland will

labour too hastily. This affects the entire body; it causes disturbed

heartbeats and loss of weight.

Elemental iodine, I2, is toxic, and its vapour irritates the eyes and lungs.

The maximum allowable concentration in air when working with iodine is just

1 mg m-3. All iodides are toxic if taken in excess.

Iodine 131 is one of the radionuclides involved in atmospheric testing of

nuclear weapons, which began in 1945, with a US test, and ended in 1980 with

a Chinese test. It is among the long-lived radionuclides that have produced

and will continue to produce increased cancers risk for decades and

centuries to come. Iodine 131 increases the risk of cancer and possibly

other diseases of the thyroid and those caused by thyroid hormonal

deficiency.

http://www.lenntech.com/periodic-chart-elements/i-en.htm

Sue

On 9/11/08 11:23 AM, " " <res075oh@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> AFAIK Gracia only takes about 200% of what Forrest says should be all

> she needs. But she takes about 66000% of the RDA of iodine each day.

>

> If she ever sells her property the buyer should be able to turn the

> septic tank into an iodine mine! [ggg]

>

>

> .

..

[Guest guest]

Gracia, she said she was talking to a scientist. If all she quotes to

him/her are something the scientist is going to consider to be from a

quack source it's just going to make her look stupid. Or maybe just

massively ignorant.

..

..

>

>

>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>>>> <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20> graciabee

>>>> <graciabee>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:08 pm (PDT)

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Most commonly asked questions - Quick Reference

>>>>

>>>> 1. How many mgs are in a drop of Lugol's?

>>>> A: Each drop of a 5% solution is 6.25 mgs

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> .

>>>>

>>>> this is a common misconception, maybe promoted by big pharma. I

>>>> will look fo rmore info.

>>>> Gracia

>>>>

>>>> I got into a discussion about the benefits of iodine with a scientist

>>>> last night.

>>>

>>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>

>>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: 9/13/2008

12:50 PM

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gracia, she said she was talking to a scientist. If all she quotes to

him/her are something the scientist is going to consider to be from a

quack source it's just going to make her look stupid. Or maybe just

massively ignorant.

..

..

>

>

>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>>>> <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20> graciabee

>>>> <graciabee>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:08 pm (PDT)

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Most commonly asked questions - Quick Reference

>>>>

>>>> 1. How many mgs are in a drop of Lugol's?

>>>> A: Each drop of a 5% solution is 6.25 mgs

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> .

>>>>

>>>> this is a common misconception, maybe promoted by big pharma. I

>>>> will look fo rmore info.

>>>> Gracia

>>>>

>>>> I got into a discussion about the benefits of iodine with a scientist

>>>> last night.

>>>

>>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>>

>>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: 9/13/2008

12:50 PM

>

>

[Guest guest]

----------------

Sudden, large doses of iodine may impair the production of thyroid hormones,

causing hypothyroidism temporarily in someone with otherwise normal thyroid

function. Excessive iodine intake can also increase the risk for other

thyroid diseases such as Hashimoto's, Graves', certain thyroid cancers, and

thyrotoxicosis (a dangerous condition due to an excessive amount of thyroid

hormones in the bloodstream). For these reasons, iodine supplementation is

not recommended for people who live in areas where iodine levels are

sufficient.

It may be harmful to take more iodine than is typically consumed per day

(160 to 600 micrograms [mcg]) from table salt. Daily intake of 2,000 mcg

iodine may be toxic, particularly in people with kidney disease or

tuberculosis.

----------------------

[Guest guest]

Sue,

You wrote:

>

> Sudden, large doses of iodine may impair the production of thyroid hormones,

> causing hypothyroidism temporarily in someone with otherwise normal thyroid

> function....

This is the well documented Wolff-Chaikoff effect, which was discovered

in rats in 1948. It has been used clinically to counter thyroid storm

and some drug effects. It only lasts about 10 days. The longer term

opposite effect, iodine induced hyperT, is called the Jod-Basedow effect.

I predict you will now be told by someone that the doctors that work for

Optimox don't believe any of what either of us posted about iodine.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

HI Chuck,

I just read as much as I possibly can about as much as I can...

.... And I can¹t tell if you are pro-large doses of iodine or against?

sue

On 9/20/08 12:19 PM, " Chuck B " <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Sue,

>

> You wrote:

>> >

>> > Sudden, large doses of iodine may impair the production of thyroid

>> hormones,

>> > causing hypothyroidism temporarily in someone with otherwise normal thyroid

>> > function....

>

> This is the well documented Wolff-Chaikoff effect, which was discovered

> in rats in 1948. It has been used clinically to counter thyroid storm

> and some drug effects. It only lasts about 10 days. The longer term

> opposite effect, iodine induced hyperT, is called the Jod-Basedow effect.

>

> I predict you will now be told by someone that the doctors that work for

> Optimox don't believe any of what either of us posted about iodine.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know about iodine, but I read that if you supplement iodine then

selenium should be added also. This is from a thyroid support group.

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. <

dr.touchinsky@...> wrote:

> Hello all,

>

> Anyone have any good results from adding idoine/iodide? I read a few books

> over the weekend by Brownstein, MD and he talks about how most people he

> checks are deficient, and in adding supplementation, results have been very

> good. He tests for it, however, with very little downside, I'm thinking of

> trying it with people at modest levels to see how they feel.

>

> He also discusses the use of selenium with most of his patients since that

> is usually the rate limiting agent in the production of glutathione. I've

> heard that somewhere else. Hmm, I wonder where???

>

> Buddy

>

> --

> Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C.

> Blue Mountain Family Chiropractic

> www.bmfchiro.com

> Healthy Habits Natural Market

> www.healthyhabitsnaturalmarket.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

I started on Iodoral (iodine/iodide) about 6 days ago and I feel great. I

take 50mg a day. It gives me clarity, focus and energy.

I also take 100mg of Selenium 2 times a day.

Mia

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C. <

dr.touchinsky@ <mailto:dr.touchinsky%40gmail.com> gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,

>

> Anyone have any good results from adding idoine/iodide? I read a few

books

> over the weekend by Brownstein, MD and he talks about how most people he

> checks are deficient, and in adding supplementation, results have been

very

> good. He tests for it, however, with very little downside, I'm thinking

of

> trying it with people at modest levels to see how they feel.

>

> He also discusses the use of selenium with most of his patients since

that

> is usually the rate limiting agent in the production of glutathione. I've

> heard that somewhere else. Hmm, I wonder where???

>

> Buddy

>

> --

> Buddy A. Touchinsky, D.C.

> Blue Mountain Family Chiropractic

> www.bmfchiro.com

> Healthy Habits Natural Market

> www.healthyhabitsnaturalmarket.com

>

>