sensory overload

[Guest guest]

Spam fritters used to be part of the menu on school dinners and I could

never understand why school dinners could never make decent custard or

gravy; it was always a choice of extremely lumpy or water thin.

> >

> > Spam spam spam spam spam spam, lots of spam wonderful spam. Gotta

> look on the bright side of life.

> >

[Guest guest]

>

" Is it better to have adrenaline junkies doing wild and crazy things

> than to have them take a drug to find that same feeling? "

Ooh, I hate those lesser-of-two-evils questions. In the first case

you have people addicted to their own adrenaline, heading for adrenal

gland exhaustion which will contribute to, or possibly cause,

depression and cause other health problems if they don't hurt

themselves first, in which case hurting themselves will possibly

cause depression and cause other health problems, and of course

there's death which has it's own problems. In the second case you

have people addicted to a drug which can lead to many of the same

problems as former, except that unlike adrenaline, drugs aren't free,

so you can add money problems to the list, and the shame of the

illegal action of taking drugs.

So to answer your question, which may have been rhetorical anyway--

whichever is the lesser of two evils. :0 Hope that helps. :<

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/7/2006 10:37:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

That's an interesting concept. I have an uncle who graduated from a popular university with a master's in history. He's an insurance agent. He couldn't find any jobs in the field of history. I don't mean to sound like a Marxist about the consumerism. I'm just cautious about which direction capitalism is going. Simple contradictions of left and right don't seem to be the things to look for. Children are increasingly exposed to illusions of life in the arts.

Most college graduates don't find work in their field of study.

I'm far from a Marxist, but I think our consumer culture is on overdrive. We demand the lowest prices, never mind if we are financing future enemies who make their people work in slave condtions for slave wages. The consumers might react with indignation when they learn that their shoes were made by children in a sweat shop, but forget all about it as soon as the new model comes out. Many throw away perfectly good electronics just because a newer model has come out with some new bells and whistles or simply is smaller. Never mind that precious metals like gold and copper and thrown into the dump and we do have a limited supply of those metals. Sure, some of that is recycled, but most of that is done overseas in horribly unsafe conditions. We've got loads of prisoners in jail over here that could be doing this rather than doing telephone orders and hotel reseverations.

People have just gotten so programmed to want newer, better, faster that I think we are moving too fast for our own good. We are probably going to end up in a bad place before we realize it. I personally think this will come with a major cyberwar attack or maybe a nationwide EMP attack that knocks out the flimsy systems we depend on. That or a massive computer somewhere might wake up and take over the net or even disseminate itself across the global net to make it impossible to wipe out unless the entire network is dumped and replaced with totally new equipment. I really don't agree with those loony scientists who think computers and robots will like us when they are sentient. I think it will be more like Terminator or the Matrix. If anyone has seen the last Matrix movie, the history was laid out. The smart machines were given a place of their own and they could make devices so cheaply, that they took over practically all production. As they say: a Capitalist will sell you the rope you will hang him with.

[Guest guest]

It's probably nothing that a healthy dose of libertarianism can't fix. The prisoners are definitely a way to help the economy. What I've heard is that bleeding hearts liberals don't want it to happen. I've also heard it's not in the financial interests of some businesses for prisons to actually rehabilitate prisoners. Not only are prisons hopeless and damaging to the individual, they're also worthless and a burden to the economy. It's everywhere. Americans are judged by what year or model their car is. Also, America is pathetic with it's minimum wage. There's a show about that one coming out soon. There's a movie about boys who grew up in Hell's kitchen and get abused by juvenile guards at a youth prison. Later, the prisoners are in a trial for murder of one of the guards except one of the boys is the prosecutor. What he does is make his own story look bad so his old friends can go free. It works and they're free. Scientific studies all over the world use that concept.

One can look in England's journals and find blasphemy everywhere when comparing it to tried and true. Yes, the new Matrix movie rocked. It does make sense that the machines would rise to power. Someone made a stupid comparison to lying versus non-lying. They said if the computer can cover up or lie about something then it's officially a sentient being. The prefrontal cortex is not the same as the evolution of computers. The Matrix does seem like the most solid example so far of showing the exploitation of humans by computers. There will be wars. There's also going to be famines and people killing each other over food is what I've heard. They say it's going to happen in America and that Americans just don't want to think about it. VISIGOTH@... wrote: In a message dated 9/7/2006 10:37:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001 writes: That's an interesting concept. I have an uncle who graduated from a popular university with a master's in history. He's an insurance agent. He couldn't find any jobs in the field of history. I don't mean to sound like a Marxist about the consumerism. I'm just cautious about which direction capitalism is going. Simple contradictions of left and right don't seem to be the things to

look for. Children are increasingly exposed to illusions of life in the arts. Most college graduates don't find work in their field of study. I'm far from a Marxist, but I think our consumer culture is on overdrive. We demand the lowest prices, never mind if we are financing future enemies who make their people work in slave condtions for slave wages. The consumers might react with indignation when they learn that their shoes were made by children in a sweat shop, but forget all about it as soon as the new model comes out. Many throw away perfectly good electronics just because a newer model has come out with some new bells and whistles or simply is smaller. Never mind that precious metals like gold and copper and thrown into the dump and we do have a limited supply of those metals. Sure, some of that is recycled, but most of that is done overseas in horribly unsafe conditions. We've got loads of

prisoners in jail over here that could be doing this rather than doing telephone orders and hotel reseverations. People have just gotten so programmed to want newer, better, faster that I think we are moving too fast for our own good. We are probably going to end up in a bad place before we realize it. I personally think this will come with a major cyberwar attack or maybe a nationwide EMP attack that knocks out the flimsy systems we depend on. That or a massive computer somewhere might wake up and take over the net or even disseminate itself across the global net to make it impossible to wipe out unless the entire network is dumped and replaced with totally new equipment. I really don't agree with those loony scientists who think computers and robots will like us when they are sentient. I think it will be more like Terminator or the Matrix. If anyone has seen the last Matrix movie, the history was laid out. The smart machines were given a

place of their own and they could make devices so cheaply, that they took over practically all production. As they say: a Capitalist will sell you the rope you will hang him with.

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

It's probably nothing that a healthy dose of libertarianism can't fix. The prisoners are definitely a way to help the economy. What I've heard is that bleeding hearts liberals don't want it to happen. I've also heard it's not in the financial interests of some businesses for prisons to actually rehabilitate prisoners. Not only are prisons hopeless and damaging to the individual, they're also worthless and a burden to the economy. It's everywhere. Americans are judged by what year or model their car is. Also, America is pathetic with it's minimum wage. There's a show about that one coming out soon. There's a movie about boys who grew up in Hell's kitchen and get abused by juvenile guards at a youth prison. Later, the prisoners are in a trial for murder of one of the guards except one of the boys is the prosecutor. What he does is make his own story look bad so his old friends can go free. It works and they're free. Scientific studies all over the world use that concept.

One can look in England's journals and find blasphemy everywhere when comparing it to tried and true. Yes, the new Matrix movie rocked. It does make sense that the machines would rise to power. Someone made a stupid comparison to lying versus non-lying. They said if the computer can cover up or lie about something then it's officially a sentient being. The prefrontal cortex is not the same as the evolution of computers. The Matrix does seem like the most solid example so far of showing the exploitation of humans by computers. There will be wars. There's also going to be famines and people killing each other over food is what I've heard. They say it's going to happen in America and that Americans just don't want to think about it. VISIGOTH@... wrote: In a message dated 9/7/2006 10:37:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001 writes: That's an interesting concept. I have an uncle who graduated from a popular university with a master's in history. He's an insurance agent. He couldn't find any jobs in the field of history. I don't mean to sound like a Marxist about the consumerism. I'm just cautious about which direction capitalism is going. Simple contradictions of left and right don't seem to be the things to

look for. Children are increasingly exposed to illusions of life in the arts. Most college graduates don't find work in their field of study. I'm far from a Marxist, but I think our consumer culture is on overdrive. We demand the lowest prices, never mind if we are financing future enemies who make their people work in slave condtions for slave wages. The consumers might react with indignation when they learn that their shoes were made by children in a sweat shop, but forget all about it as soon as the new model comes out. Many throw away perfectly good electronics just because a newer model has come out with some new bells and whistles or simply is smaller. Never mind that precious metals like gold and copper and thrown into the dump and we do have a limited supply of those metals. Sure, some of that is recycled, but most of that is done overseas in horribly unsafe conditions. We've got loads of

prisoners in jail over here that could be doing this rather than doing telephone orders and hotel reseverations. People have just gotten so programmed to want newer, better, faster that I think we are moving too fast for our own good. We are probably going to end up in a bad place before we realize it. I personally think this will come with a major cyberwar attack or maybe a nationwide EMP attack that knocks out the flimsy systems we depend on. That or a massive computer somewhere might wake up and take over the net or even disseminate itself across the global net to make it impossible to wipe out unless the entire network is dumped and replaced with totally new equipment. I really don't agree with those loony scientists who think computers and robots will like us when they are sentient. I think it will be more like Terminator or the Matrix. If anyone has seen the last Matrix movie, the history was laid out. The smart machines were given a

place of their own and they could make devices so cheaply, that they took over practically all production. As they say: a Capitalist will sell you the rope you will hang him with.

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

RE ASD and executive functioning. I really, really like the following recent researchpaper on the role of brain "coherence" and ASD. It fitsin with a whole lot of other aspects of recent research goingon. Likely I will write more about this in the next weekor so. There is a bit of semantic wrangling going on here, but one of the basic ideas is perhaps executive functioningis best described being more influenced by coherence thanthe other way around. Here are some springer links to the article. Spring-Verlag is very-very tight on their copyrights so I'm only going to excerpt less than 10% of the article (...generally acceptablecase-law standard in certain types of media). From the journal of autism and developmental disorders, 2005. The Weak Coherence Account: Detail-focused Cognitive Style in

Autism Spectrum Disorders Francesca Happé1, and Uta Frith http://www.springerlink.com/content/25742773441j3085/http://www.springerlink.com/content/25742773441j3085/fulltext.pdfhttp://www.springerlink.com/content/25742773441j3085/fulltext.html (If someone really wants a copy, email me.) The issue of executive functioning as it relates to different types of neurological "coherence" is pretty much discussed throughoutthe paper. But it is especially focused on in the following sectionI've excerpted. Most of the other parts of the paper are putting forth the argument for why characteristics of ASD are well described by coherence theory. This

part argues mostly the reverse. "Weak Coherence in Relation to other Deficit AccountsA prominent account addressing the non-social aspects of ASD posits executive dysfunction at the root of the characteristic rigid and repetitive behaviour. Executive function is an umbrella term covering a range of higher-order cognitive abilities necessary for flexible and adaptive behaviour in the service of novel goals. As such, executive function might be seen to encompass the processing of information in context for global meaning, i.e. central coherence. Findings currently attributed to weak coherence might be explained by executive dysfunction: failure to process information globally might be argued to follow from problems in shifting between local and global levels, provided local processing is considered to be the default. Limitations of working memory might bias performance towards smaller fragments of information. Similarly, poor planning

might result in piece-meal approaches to novel tasks. To date, there have been three investigations of the possible relation between coherence and executive functions. Teunisse, Cools, van Spaendonck, Aerts, and Berger (2001) found that weak coherence and poor shifting were more common among high-functioning adolescents with autism than among comparison typically-developing participants, but neither was universal. Performance on the two types of measure was unrelated and did not correlate with symptom severity or social ability. Pellicano et al. (in press) found a significant relationship between executive function tasks and some but not all tests aimed at assessing coherence in her study of 4- and 5-year-old typically developing children. However, the choice of tasks is likely to have confounded processing style and visuo-spatial ability. Booth et al. (2003) examined directly the possible role of one executive function, planning, on global/local processing in

a drawing task. They compared boys with ASD and boys with ADHD, as well as a typically developing comparison group, all matched on age and IQ. A drawing task requiring planning ahead (to add a requested internal element), showed the predicted planning deficits in both clinical groups, while analysis of drawing style showed that piecemeal drawing, e.g., starting with features or drawing detail to detail, was characteristic of the ASD group only. Performance on the executive function and central coherence elements of the task did not correlate in the clinical groups, and Booth et al. conclude that weak coherence is not common to all groups with executive dysfunction, and that poor planning cannot explain detail-focus in autism. Notwithstanding this evidence that weak coherence findings are not a mere side-effect of executive dysfunction in planning or inhibition, there may be important theoretical shared ground between these two accounts. The executive function metaphor of

the “chief executive”, in top–down control of lower resources, certainly resonates with Frith’s original notion of central coherence. Many aspects of autism seem well characterised as manifestations of reduced top–down modulation (Frith, 2003), and local or piecemeal processing might be postulated to be the default when control from above (the CE) is weakened or absent. In this sense, coherence might be seen as one aspect of executive function. However, coherence would be unlike most processes grouped under the executive function umbrella, in so far as the neural substrate for coherence is not hypothesised to be in the frontal lobes, and coherence is thought to be a property of low- as well as higher-level systems." In the previous post: "It's been proven that Aspies have had to use their executive functioning part of the brain more so than the average person and therefore make better use of it." : Now I find this odd as I have heard that many with Aspergers have problems with executive functioning skills. Heph (me): I wonder if there is some neural plasticity going on here- Wheredue to weak central coherence the "engine" that is the executive functionworks harder, thus from infancy up through late adolescence (when thefrontal cortex go through ~it's~ growth spurt) it grows to meet the demands of a society/environment where the executive functioning isexpected to work in ways the ASD executive functioning structures, dueto weak central coherence, are not well suited for. (Kind of like makinga left-handed person learn tasks using only his right hand- he gets okayat right-handed tasks but still is much better at left-handed tasks thanthe naturally right-handed persons are at left-handed tasks.) Cheers! greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote: "It's been proven that Aspies have had to use their executive functioning part of the brain more so than the average person and therefore make better use of it."Now I find this odd as I have heard that many with Aspergers have problems with executive functioning skills. >> I haven't studied inflation. The reasons listed sound like they make sense. My mother is an example of someone who bought the house in the no interest days and had to foreclose it. She's still in debt. She wasn't even able to sell it. They also took her car because the house payments started skyrocketing. If someone were to ask me what it comes down to I'd say it's peoples' brains are too tweaked up on caffeine and a million other stressors that they can't and won't be able to use proper executive functioning. It's been proven that Aspies have had to use their executive functioning part of the brain more so than the average person and therefore make better use of it. Many times I think Aspies are labeled as the complete opposite of what they really are in just the right way that people will go along with it to suit their own needs of inclusion. Certain symptoms from a toxic disease state brought

about by vaccines and hundreds of thousands of other things are overanalyzed> to present something in common with NT's shortcomings so that NT's will have an example to compare themselves with and be deceived into thinking it's okay to waste money on a car they can't afford as long as they aren't rocking in a chair or just plain being seen as weird by others. People will truly feel no compassion because their executive functioning is not as good. That's why Nt's will have emotional outbursts. Many of these temper tantrums exhibited by autistic kids are warranted as seen by Kim when watching the Home Video show. People can't escape from the illusion that their lives have meaning and that their emotions must be placed in a positive light and not something as simple as malnourishment or living in a toxic world causing their brains to not function properly. Capitalists exploit that over and over again. Herd instinct.

Certain symptoms of poisoning (negative symptoms or even positive ones such as skill in certain areas are looked at as 'preoccupations',> weird etc.... The NT's are led to believe that they should be non-committed to anything habitwise unless it has a brand name on it. People of all different disorders are labeled negatively by scientists whose goal is to set a subliminal social order with the average people who are in effect farm animals for one major corporation or another. It's back to the Middle Ages. Hephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

It gets confusing. A patient with severe day to day executive problems may still pass paper and pencil or lab based tests of executive function. As far as I'm concerned the scientific community wants to despiritualize everything and when they do that they get half and half results meaning they can't prove it. greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote: "It's been proven that Aspies have had to use their executive functioning part of the brain more so than the average person and therefore make better use of

it."Now I find this odd as I have heard that many with Aspergers have problems with executive functioning skills. >> I haven't studied inflation. The reasons listed sound like they make sense. My mother is an example of someone who bought the house in the no interest days and had to foreclose it. She's still in debt. She wasn't even able to sell it. They also took her car because the house payments started skyrocketing. If someone were to ask me what it comes down to I'd say it's peoples' brains are too tweaked up on caffeine and a million other stressors that they can't and won't be able to use proper executive functioning. It's been proven that Aspies have had to use their executive functioning part of the brain more so than the average

person and therefore make better use of it. Many times I think Aspies are labeled as the complete opposite of what they really are in just the right way that people will go along with it to suit their own needs of inclusion. Certain symptoms from a toxic disease state brought about by vaccines and hundreds of thousands of other things are overanalyzed> to present something in common with NT's shortcomings so that NT's will have an example to compare themselves with and be deceived into thinking it's okay to waste money on a car they can't afford as long as they aren't rocking in a chair or just plain being seen as weird by others. People will truly feel no compassion because their executive functioning is not as good. That's why Nt's will have emotional outbursts. Many of these temper tantrums exhibited by autistic kids are warranted as seen by Kim when watching the Home Video show. People can't escape from the

illusion that their lives have meaning and that their emotions must be placed in a positive light and not something as simple as malnourishment or living in a toxic world causing their brains to not function properly. Capitalists exploit that over and over again. Herd instinct. Certain symptoms of poisoning (negative symptoms or even positive ones such as skill in certain areas are looked at as 'preoccupations',> weird etc.... The NT's are led to believe that they should be non-committed to anything habitwise unless it has a brand name on it. People of all different disorders are labeled negatively by scientists whose goal is to set a subliminal social order with the average people who are in effect farm animals for one major corporation or another. It's back to the Middle Ages.

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

I meant to put in that quote on the post I just made. Damasio was the neurologist who quoted the part about the lab tests with the patients. greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote: "It's been proven that Aspies have had to use their executive functioning part of the brain more so than the average person and therefore make better use of it."Now I find this odd as I have heard that many with Aspergers have problems with executive functioning skills. >> I haven't studied inflation. The reasons listed sound like they make sense. My mother is an example of someone who bought the house in the no interest days and had to foreclose it. She's still in debt. She wasn't even able to sell it. They also took her car because the house payments started skyrocketing. If someone were to ask me what it comes down to I'd say it's peoples' brains are too tweaked up on caffeine and a million other stressors that they can't and won't be able to use proper executive functioning. It's been proven that Aspies have had to use their executive functioning part of the brain more so than the average person and therefore make better use of it. Many times I think Aspies are labeled as the complete opposite of what they really are in just the right way

that people will go along with it to suit their own needs of inclusion. Certain symptoms from a toxic disease state brought about by vaccines and hundreds of thousands of other things are overanalyzed> to present something in common with NT's shortcomings so that NT's will have an example to compare themselves with and be deceived into thinking it's okay to waste money on a car they can't afford as long as they aren't rocking in a chair or just plain being seen as weird by others. People will truly feel no compassion because their executive functioning is not as good. That's why Nt's will have emotional outbursts. Many of these temper tantrums exhibited by autistic kids are warranted as seen by Kim when watching the Home Video show. People can't escape from the illusion that their lives have meaning and that their emotions must be placed in a positive light and not something as simple as malnourishment or living in

a toxic world causing their brains to not function properly. Capitalists exploit that over and over again. Herd instinct. Certain symptoms of poisoning (negative symptoms or even positive ones such as skill in certain areas are looked at as 'preoccupations',> weird etc.... The NT's are led to believe that they should be non-committed to anything habitwise unless it has a brand name on it. People of all different disorders are labeled negatively by scientists whose goal is to set a subliminal social order with the average people who are in effect farm animals for one major corporation or another. It's back to the Middle Ages.

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/9/2006 8:30:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

Minimum wages are not the problem. The problem is twofold:1) Slow but steady inflation.2) The increasing inability of the consumer to manage money.Slow but steady inflation (in business) happens because1) Businesses simply charge what the customer will pay, but also2) As the workforce ages, there are more pensions to pay off, and other differed expenses that need paying up on.An example of people's failure to manage money can be seen with housing. Housing prices were skyrocketing in price for a while because it was a seller's market. The reason was that interest rates were low making mortgages obtainable for those who could never get them before. People moved out of apartments and bought homes.

Good points. Easy credit and loans has created a real problem. People aren't educated enough in basic economics and personal finance to understand that if you take a $10,000 loan at say 5% interest, that you are actually in the hole $10,000 PLUS 5% compounded annually. That mean you could end up having to pay back as much as $15,000 or much more, depending on how quickly you pay it off. That's a lot of money to pay to get a new plasma TV. Its better to save the amount you would be paying on the loan and eventually buy the item in cash. You say you can't save $100 a month, then how the heck are you going to pay $200 a month on the loan?

On the other hand, if you use that loan to buy an asset, something like land that you can expect a decent return on, then that might be a good use of the money, because in the end you will come out ahead.

People just don't understand basic personal money management, budgeting and so on. They are also prone to running out and buying new junk they don't need. I'm guilty of this too sometimes, but I manage it well enough that I haven't been in the hole in years, and I hope that never will happen again.

Well, what happened with the pensions and such is that certain unions really messed it up. I don't recall the full details, but the Autoworker unions got together under one charismatic leader. If one went on strike, all the unions went on strike and for the same demands. This built up over time into the legacies that are going to topple Ford and GM.

What they should have done years ago was to modify Social Security and the pension systems. The government should have gotten together with business and established a series of private accounts based on the following. Each account would be privately owned by the individual. All pension money, stock grants and so forth from the business would go into it. As it was privately owned, it could easily follow the person from job to job without previous employers having to keep managing the account. The accounts, BTW, would be managed by private investment houses which would compete with each other but under very strict government oversight to keep out fraud and deception. In addition, the lion's share of SS taxes paid by the individual would go into their own account, while the rest would go into a special fun to help those who truly need it. Now, this money would be invested in bonds and full market stock funds, based on the goals and needs of the client. The investment would be full market so there would be no problems with stock picking and all that kind of thing which even the "experts" stink at. IN this way, the account would rise and fall according to the market average, not individual high flying stocks. Since the market averages an 8% return per year historically, that is far better than the less than 1% return current SS yields.

This system would also have the side effect of making people more interested in the market since they would have a vested interest in it. That would mean great economic education for the people and it would make it much harder for things like Enron to happen not because more people might catch it, but because the consequences would be so damning. The Enron people got hit sort of hard, but imagine what would have happened had almost everyone in the US had lost a few percent of their assets because of it. There would have been so much pressure on the politicians that those people probably would have gotten the death penalty. The government would also be forced to maintain a greater vigilance for the same reason: if it was found that lack of vigil allowed this to happen, then those pols responsible would be in deep trouble.

This will never happen though because it would make the people too independent and worse would increase the number of people watching government spending and taxes. This would reveal how much of it they waste and would cause real reforms to have to be passed and stuck to. The pols want to limit the people, not be limited themselves.

[Guest guest]

I'm having trouble understanding this article. What do they mean

by 'coherence', 'central coherence' 'weak coherence' and 'shifting'?

> >

> > I haven't studied inflation. The reasons listed sound like they

> make sense. My mother is an example of someone who bought the house

> in the no interest days and had to foreclose it. She's still in

debt.

> She wasn't even able to sell it. They also took her car because the

> house payments started skyrocketing. If someone were to ask me what

> it comes down to I'd say it's peoples' brains are too tweaked up on

> caffeine and a million other stressors that they can't and won't be

> able to use proper executive functioning. It's been proven that

> Aspies have had to use their executive functioning part of the

brain

> more so than the average person and therefore make better use of

it.

> Many times I think Aspies are labeled as the complete opposite of

> what they really are in just the right way that people will go

along

> with it to suit their own needs of inclusion. Certain symptoms from

a

> toxic disease state brought about by vaccines and hundreds of

> thousands of other things are overanalyzed

> > to present something in common with NT's shortcomings so that

NT's

> will have an example to compare themselves with and be deceived

into

> thinking it's okay to waste money on a car they can't afford as

long

> as they aren't rocking in a chair or just plain being seen as weird

> by others. People will truly feel no compassion because their

> executive functioning is not as good. That's why Nt's will have

> emotional outbursts. Many of these temper tantrums exhibited by

> autistic kids are warranted as seen by Kim when watching the Home

> Video show. People can't escape from the illusion that their lives

> have meaning and that their emotions must be placed in a positive

> light and not something as simple as malnourishment or living in a

> toxic world causing their brains to not function properly.

> Capitalists exploit that over and over again. Herd instinct.

Certain

> symptoms of poisoning (negative symptoms or even positive ones such

> as skill in certain areas are looked at as 'preoccupations',

> > weird etc.... The NT's are led to believe that they should be non-

> committed to anything habitwise unless it has a brand name on it.

> People of all different disorders are labeled negatively by

> scientists whose goal is to set a subliminal social order with the

> average people who are in effect farm animals for one major

> corporation or another. It's back to the Middle Ages.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hephaestus Clubfoot

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestus

> http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.html

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

>

> ---------------------------------

> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

>

[Guest guest]

Heph, I think your posts on this are fascinating and have led me to

look into this subject as well. My youngest son will have a

neuropsychiatric test conducted at the University of Illinios in

Chicago at the end of this month by D. Stanford, Ph.D.,

ABPP/CN. The website offers this information about her work at the

UIC.

http://www.psych.uic.edu/faculty/stanford.htm

D. Stanford, Ph.D., ABPP/CN is the Director of the Pediatric

Neuropsychology Program and the Clinical Training Director of the

Clinical Neuropsychology Residency Program. She is also the Director

of the Center for Cognitive Medicine's Autism Clinic, where she sees

patients with Dr. Carol Macmillan for diagnostic evaluations and

works closely with Dr. Sweeney to develop sophisticated

neurocognitive studies to investigate the genetic aspects of Autism

Spectrum Disorders using functional and structural MRI.

Dr. Stanford is an Associate Professor of Clinical Psychiatry with

years of experience directing Pediatric Neuropsychology clinical and

training programs. She has published, taught, and conducted research

on the neurobehavioral aspects and cognitive effects of Learning

Disabilities, ADHD, Autism, Traumatic Brain Injury, Congenital

Hydrocephalus, and Pediatric Epilepsy.

She is involved in educational and clinical practice issues at the

national level through her work on the Practice Advisory Committee

of the American Psychological Association's Division of Clinical

Neuropsychology and as a past board member of the Learning

Disabilities Association.

The Center for Cognitive Medicine is directed by Sweeney, PhD

and offers clinical research opportunities in its ongoing research

programs investigating schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and autism.

The schizophrenia and bipolar disorder program includes studies

examining early detection of risk, comparison of pharmacotherapies,

and neurocognitive and brain imaging studies. The focus of the

autism program is to use neurocognitive and neuroimaging parameters

to delineate the nature of brain dysmaturation in this disorder, and

to develop endophenotypic markers to define patterns of

heterogeneity within families having an autistic proband.

Additionally, Diffusion Tensor Infusion (DTI) is being used with

infants to identify possible early myelination patterns or markers

In Autsim. The Center is programmatically linked to the UIC MR

Center which currently has a 3.0 T system and soon will have a 9.4 T

scanner, both human whole body systems for MRI, MRS and perfusion,

diffusion and BOLD contrast imaging. The Center has active

collaborations with several Departments across the University to

facilitate patient access, scientific interaction and methodological

sophistication in image analysis.

A part of me wants to know how our brains (meaning myself and

possibly my children)differ from others but the other part doesn't

want to put my son through this. He has already been tested and

identified as a visual spatial learner, which I'm fairly certain I

am also from what I've read. My husband is upset that he may be

labled or use this diagnosis as an excuse for any failure he might

have in school. Although he attends a gifted school, many times

I've taken literature about his learning style to his teachers in

order them to be aware of what would help him absorb the majority of

the lessons taught. If you'd like, I'll fill you in on the details

of his test results. After reading the information in your latest

posts I had to take out a book I have called The Brain Pack. It has

three dimensional brain that pops up(such as in children's books)

that identifies the parts of the brain and helps me to visualise the

concepts involved in the studies you've mentioned.

Kim

>

> For those at a library or who otherwise have access to Time, an

online link is:

> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1191843,00.html

>

> I seem to recall the physical magazine had a large artist's

rendering of what the autistic brain " typically " looks like, with

annotations. For some reason that isn't showing up in the online

version- or perhaps I'm remember the diagram from a different

article...but I don't think so.

>

> As might be expected since it was the cover story of one of the

major magazines in the USA, it generated lots of articles and

comments so browsing the google might be of interest to some:

> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=Time+magazine+2006+autism

[Guest guest]

>

> " " My family calls me contradictory but I tell them, no I'm

> complicated. Ironically they also say I'm black and white... "

>

> Yeah, I've had both of them, rather condradictory isn't it :-) "

You too? Just tell them, 'No, I'm just multi-faceted, like a

diamond.'

>

> " I told him I didn't have an opinion on the subject - he seemed

really

> annoyed and stated that I must have an opinion, I countered that I

> did not have enough facts to give an opinion. "

Well, it's so nice that Aspies can always relate to the same things!

Yes, they get annoyed. I've adapted to this by coming up with

something in conversation but I don't feel so happy about it,

especially if it's talking about people. I don't like to gossip

unless it's to try and understand or help the person, but it makes up

a lot of some peoples' conversation.

Something my grandfather said always stuck with me: " Great people

talk about ideas, average people talk about events, and small people

talk about people. "

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> " Second- One of my favorite quotes:

> " The most difficult thing is to perceive without judging " -

Krishnamurti

> I like it because it seems to me so easy, yet NTs

(apparently) find it almost impossible!! So I find myself often

throwing that quote at them. "

I'll have to try and remember that one.

>

> " Third, a question: How does the idea of weak coherence correspond

to the folk notion of being " spacey " , or an " absent-minded professor "

type? (At one place I workd for about ten years, they often joked

about my being " the absent-minded professor " - though I'm not actually

a professor.) Is it even something completely different? Are the

definitions too vague? "

I am very curious about this, too. I've thought the spaciness is, in

part, the brain's needing to rest. That is, the kind of spaciness

where you space out. But I'd like to completely understand it. Also

the absent-mindedness. It does seem like it could be related to the

coherence thing. You can't remember everything about things and so

forget some aspects. Or concentrating on one thing, you don't see

another. There's also the not getting what someone is meaning. To me,

anything is possible, so to figure out that there's one meaning in

what someone is saying is too narrow. People get frustrated and after

explaining what they meant, ask, 'What did you think I meant?' I say

to myself, 'Do you really want me to list the possibilities?' and

just pick what I think would be the most plausable to them.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Both autistic people and non-autistic people

> ... can't remember everything about things and so

> forget some aspects. Or concentrating on one thing, you don't see

> another. There's also the not getting what someone is meaning. ...

The difference: Autistic people *see* this happening as it happens;

non-autistic people *don't* notice that this happens (they don't

notice that their brains — ANY brain — " filters " because

that-which-perceives-and-thinks can't completely/accurately include

ALL of the event perceived/thought about.) As a result, non-autistic

people *think* that their thoughts equal (or provide a complete and

perfect " map " of) the reality outside those thoughts.

EXAMPLE: if an autistic person and a non-autistic person both

take a high school/college psychology course, and go through/observe a

certain classic psychology experiment (described below), the results

of the experiment will vastly surprise the non-autistic person but

will not at all surprise the autistic person (who will just think

" Well, of course! " because s/he will ALWAYS have known the thing that

the experiments demonstrates which so surprises the non-autistic

person).

The Experiment (whose results surprise non-autistic people but not

autistic people) — First, hook up a person (or a cat or a dog) to an

EEG machine (to measure brainwaves).

Then, have a loudly ticking clock in the room — the person's/animal's

brainwaves will show responses to the ticks of the clock. Then ...

introduce a competing, distracting stimulus — (if you have a cat,

bring in a caged mouse ,,, if you have a dog, bring in a caged cat ...

if you have a young heterosexual human adult, bring in an attractive

and very scantily clad young adult of the opposite sex ... ) and the

brainwaves suddenly stop showing responses to the clock-ticks (the

brain stops actually perceiving/recording the ticking sound). This

fact (that the brain actually on some level stops recording a stimulus

no longer attended to) vastly surprises non-autistic people

watching/undergoing such an experiment (especially the person who got

hooked up to the machine, when s/he sees the machine's recording-tape

afterwards) — in fact, it surprises non-autistic people to the point

that many of them Just Don't Believe It Happened. But it doesn't

surprise autistic people in the least: if you have autism, you already

KNOW (by a lifetime of your own knowing yourself) that this happens.

Autistic people, I think, have their/our own brain-processes (or some

of those processes) " transparent " to us in a way that non-autistic

people don't have their own brain-processes quite " transparent " to

them: sort of as if autistic people automatically get to see their/our

brains/thoughts at work, but non-autistic people don't have this

function unless they specially train themselves to have that function

(in other words, unless they specially train themselves to become

aware of their own cognitive psychology/their own

brains-and-minds-at-work).

In sum:

Autistic people notice-and-take-for-granted that the " map " in

the brain [the thoughts] can't equal the " territory " outside the brain

[the events/things the brain has thought about]. This in itself makes

it hard for autistic people & non-autistic people to communicate with

each other — especially hard to communicate about things which happen

inside a brain, such as

emotions/thoughts/perceptions/lacks-of-perception.

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

Is that why alot of Nt's prefer changing their environment and autistics don't like change as much unless it's change in the specifics of the surroundings? Are you saying that autistics are more oriented to calculations than seeing through to the implications? Kate Gladstone <handwritingrepair@...> wrote: Both autistic people and non-autistic people> ... can't remember everything about things and so> forget some aspects. Or concentrating on one thing, you don't see> another. There's also the not getting what someone is meaning. ...The difference: Autistic people *see* this happening as it happens;non-autistic people *don't* notice that this happens (they don'tnotice that their brains — ANY brain — "filters" becausethat-which-perceives-and-thinks can't completely/accurately

includeALL of the event perceived/thought about.) As a result, non-autisticpeople *think* that their thoughts equal (or provide a complete andperfect "map" of) the reality outside those thoughts.EXAMPLE: if an autistic person and a non-autistic person bothtake a high school/college psychology course, and go through/observe acertain classic psychology experiment (described below), the resultsof the experiment will vastly surprise the non-autistic person butwill not at all surprise the autistic person (who will just think"Well, of course!" because s/he will ALWAYS have known the thing thatthe experiments demonstrates which so surprises the non-autisticperson).The Experiment (whose results surprise non-autistic people but notautistic people) — First, hook up a person (or a cat or a dog) to anEEG machine (to measure brainwaves).Then, have a loudly ticking clock in the room — the person's/animal'sbrainwaves will

show responses to the ticks of the clock. Then ...introduce a competing, distracting stimulus — (if you have a cat,bring in a caged mouse ,,, if you have a dog, bring in a caged cat ...if you have a young heterosexual human adult, bring in an attractiveand very scantily clad young adult of the opposite sex ... ) and thebrainwaves suddenly stop showing responses to the clock-ticks (thebrain stops actually perceiving/recording the ticking sound). Thisfact (that the brain actually on some level stops recording a stimulusno longer attended to) vastly surprises non-autistic peoplewatching/undergoing such an experiment (especially the person who gothooked up to the machine, when s/he sees the machine's recording-tapeafterwards) — in fact, it surprises non-autistic people to the pointthat many of them Just Don't Believe It Happened. But it doesn'tsurprise autistic people in the least: if you have autism, you alreadyKNOW (by

a lifetime of your own knowing yourself) that this happens.Autistic people, I think, have their/our own brain-processes (or someof those processes) "transparent" to us in a way that non-autisticpeople don't have their own brain-processes quite "transparent" tothem: sort of as if autistic people automatically get to see their/ourbrains/thoughts at work, but non-autistic people don't have thisfunction unless they specially train themselves to have that function(in other words, unless they specially train themselves to becomeaware of their own cognitive psychology/their ownbrains-and-minds-at-work).In sum:Autistic people notice-and-take-for-granted that the "map" inthe brain [the thoughts] can't equal the "territory" outside the brain[the events/things the brain has thought about]. This in itself makesit hard for autistic people & non-autistic people to communicate witheach other — especially hard to

communicate about things which happeninside a brain, such asemotions/thoughts/perceptions/lacks-of-perception.Kate GladstoneFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

>

> " Autistic people, I think, have their/our own brain-processes (or some

> of those processes) " transparent " to us in a way that non-autistic

> people don't have their own brain-processes quite " transparent " to

> them: sort of as if autistic people automatically get to see their/our

> brains/thoughts at work, but non-autistic people don't have this

> function unless they specially train themselves to have that function

> (in other words, unless they specially train themselves to become

> aware of their own cognitive psychology/their own

> brains-and-minds-at-work). "

>

Yes, I've noticed this--ask a non-Autistic how their brain works and

they absolutely can't tell you--everything in regard to it 'just is'.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2006 2:34:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I definitely agree. I remember once having to do a talk on a radio programme because no one else could (an experience I will not be in a rush to repeat). Before we even went on air the DJ was asking me my opinion on something totally unrelated to the chat I was about to do. I told him I didn't have an opinion on the subject - he seemed really annoyed and stated that I must have an opinion, I countered that I did not have enough facts to give an opinion.

Some things I really don't have an opinion about aside from not caring.The lives of the music and movie stars and sports icons are a good example. You see stories about this stuff all the time and there are even many magazines devoted to the topic. Honestly I couldn't care less what they do. Most of them are loony or degenerates so their antics don't interest me. Therefore, I have an opinion about the people themselves, but not what they do. Most people I tell this to don't get that.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2006 2:34:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I definitely agree. I remember once having to do a talk on a radio programme because no one else could (an experience I will not be in a rush to repeat). Before we even went on air the DJ was asking me my opinion on something totally unrelated to the chat I was about to do. I told him I didn't have an opinion on the subject - he seemed really annoyed and stated that I must have an opinion, I countered that I did not have enough facts to give an opinion.

Some things I really don't have an opinion about aside from not caring.The lives of the music and movie stars and sports icons are a good example. You see stories about this stuff all the time and there are even many magazines devoted to the topic. Honestly I couldn't care less what they do. Most of them are loony or degenerates so their antics don't interest me. Therefore, I have an opinion about the people themselves, but not what they do. Most people I tell this to don't get that.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2006 3:06:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, mikecarrie01@... writes:

Something my grandfather said always stuck with me: "Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about events, and small people talk about people."

That's a good quote.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2006 8:12:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mikecarrie01@... writes:

I am very curious about this, too. I've thought the spaciness is, in part, the brain's needing to rest. That is, the kind of spaciness where you space out. But I'd like to completely understand it. Also the absent-mindedness. It does seem like it could be related to the coherence thing. You can't remember everything about things and so forget some aspects. Or concentrating on one thing, you don't see another. There's also the not getting what someone is meaning. To me, anything is possible, so to figure out that there's one meaning in what someone is saying is too narrow. People get frustrated and after explaining what they meant, ask, 'What did you think I meant?' I say to myself, 'Do you really want me to list the possibilities?' and just pick what I think would be the most plausable to them.

I've thought about this a lot, this and the eccentricities that seem to often go with intelligence. Here's my opinion.

The human brain has developed from the reptile brain in stages. We still have the bits and pieces from each of these steps, the brain getting more primitive and reptilian the closer you get to the brain stem. The standard issue of today is an upgraded monkey brain, roughly 3 times the size and capacity of the primates.

This brain still has the same basic hardwired programs as all the previous models: priorities are breed, eat, not get eaten. The endocrine (hormone) system also plays a strong role in this as well, since the basic functions are backed up by powerful hormones like adrenaline and the sex hormones. These basic programs come built into the system at birth and are useful on occasion, but mostly are damnably annoying. These days we frequently encounter situations that cause the fight or fight reflex to kick in when it isn't necessary or advisable: like when we'd like to strangle that moron in the express checkout line who insists on counting out the exact change, in pennies. The hormones still kick in and stress the system even though this is not a threat like a charging bear.

All animals have a degree of planning ability and often more than I think most people give them credit for. I've seen birds do some remarkably intelligent things to get at food. In primates this became basic tool use. In humans this became the ability to make more advanced tools. However, not everyone had this talent. For a long time it is believed that everyone was a generalist, doing a little bit of everything. However, once people began to organize, some people specialized. At this point tools evolved more rapidly than they had in the previous million years and the rate kept increasing.

I think those toolmakers could have been common, but the innovators rare. The first city planners and philosophers would also have been rare. Some societies did value philosophy, like the Greeks, but how many real philosophers were there? There weren't many like Plato or Socrates. Unfortunately humanity chose to follow Plato because he was less extreme and safer to their egos. Socrates developed essentially the modern scientific method and we still use his principles in debates. Imagine the crime of suggesting Earth wasn't the center of the universe, how uncomfortable that made people.

As I said, many intelligent people have oddities about their behavior. Einstein was a bit unkempt except when his helpers were about. Others have been antisocial or afraid of socializing. Many artists end up alcoholics or drug abusers in an effort to "normalize" their minds.

My point? We have expanded capacity monkey brains trying to run programs it isn't capable of handling. With the advanced intelligence, ethics and spirituality, it is like a machine built for Windows 98 running Windows XP. The hardware gets overloaded very easily. Most people manage because they don't use the software to its fullest. They are content with the Games files (eating, partying, rutting, etc.) and sometimes more advanced programs grudgingly used for work. That doesn't tax the resources very much.

When more is asked of the system, that is greater intelligence is involved, the system has to make compromises. So if one were running say a word processor on the described system, then other programs have to be shorted, like the social programs. Add in something like the entire Office suite and you've really got a problem. Not only will other programs have to be shorted, the system itself will be straining and there will be errors and hiccups. This is where the oddities in behavior come from: the brain is trying to run these high capacity programs on a system that wasn't designed to handle it.

Of course this is a wild generalization. People come with different processor speeds and specialty computers. Some people think very quickly and some are natural masters of certain subjects. The basic system can also be improved through something called education. Education provides upgrades to the hardware and software to help it all function more effectively, though there are still natural limits to how far this can go.

So there you have it. We've got very advanced programming running on an antique system. It isn't a problem for most people because they aren't naturally stressing their systems. But the greater the intelligence, the more the system is stressed. It is also possible that the greater intelligences and savant abilities are the result of hardware errors or miswiring which could also explain the oddities of some super intelligent people.

That was a bit rambling, but I haven't tried to express this for a while now, so the theory is a bit rusty.

PS Spaciness is simply the brain using its limited processing power to focus on intelligence. In order to focus on thinking, external stimuli are ignored to the point of the person becoming temporarily blind and deaf.

[Guest guest]

> Hi all

>

> I have severe sensory overload problem.Actually it is so much in these

> days that I am afraid of going crazy.Fan of my PC,sound of the laundry

> washer,telephone rings bother me. Can not watch TV much. Can not make

> telephone conversations for more than 15-20 minutes.(I start to be

> bothered at 5th minute but can handle it up to 15 minutes. After 15 to 20

> minutes I collapse.) Can not stay in the same room with others for more

> than 30 minutes.I need total darkness at about 60 percent of my awaken

> time. Slightest light beam stops me from sleeping and makes me extremely

> bothered. My question will be to the ones who have this problem at this

> level. How many years it took you to come to this level after the start

> of the illness? Mine took 11 years. During the first 11 year I was

> bothered by noise and light more than normal people do but it did not

> affect my daily life much.Also what was your functionality level when you

> reached that state. Mine was about 10-20 percent.Do you also have feeling

> of brain swelling?

> Thank you.

>

> Nil

>

[Guest guest]

I am also wondering if there is anyone who is at 10-20 percent functionality

level but does not have sensory problems at the level I described below.I am

trying to understand if sensory overload problem is in direct proportion

with exhaustion level or if it could be due to other secondary problems like

neurological problems due to mercury poisoning.

Wish you the best.

Nil

>

> > Hi all

>>

>> I have severe sensory overload problem.Actually it is so much in these

>> days that I am afraid of going crazy.Fan of my PC,sound of the laundry

>> washer,telephone rings bother me. Can not watch TV much. Can not make

>> telephone conversations for more than 15-20 minutes.(I start to be

>> bothered at 5th minute but can handle it up to 15 minutes. After 15 to 20

>> minutes I collapse.) Can not stay in the same room with others for more

>> than 30 minutes.I need total darkness at about 60 percent of my awaken

>> time. Slightest light beam stops me from sleeping and makes me extremely

>> bothered.

[Guest guest]

Dear Nil

Sensory overload precedes exhaustion and is magnified by it in my case.

Regards

R

Fw: Sensory overload

>I am also wondering if there is anyone who is at 10-20 percent

>functionality

> level but does not have sensory problems at the level I described below.I

> am

> trying to understand if sensory overload problem is in direct proportion

> with exhaustion level or if it could be due to other secondary problems

> like

> neurological problems due to mercury poisoning.

> Wish you the best.

> Nil

>

>

>>

>> > Hi all

>>>

>>> I have severe sensory overload problem.Actually it is so much in these

>>> days that I am afraid of going crazy.Fan of my PC,sound of the laundry

>>> washer,telephone rings bother me. Can not watch TV much. Can not make

>>> telephone conversations for more than 15-20 minutes.(I start to be

>>> bothered at 5th minute but can handle it up to 15 minutes. After 15 to

>>> 20

>>> minutes I collapse.) Can not stay in the same room with others for more

>>> than 30 minutes.I need total darkness at about 60 percent of my awaken

>>> time. Slightest light beam stops me from sleeping and makes me extremely

>>> bothered.

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks

Do you mean it started before your exhaustion started?

bw

Nil

Re: Fw: Sensory overload

> Dear Nil

> Sensory overload precedes exhaustion and is magnified by it in my case.

> Regards

> R

[Guest guest]

Hi Nil,

My case with sensory overload is quite similar to yours. It does wax

and wane in my case, being that in winter, for some odd reason, it's

usually much worse. Lately It's been almost always with me, which for

summertime isn't the norm.

You asked:

>> My question will be to the ones who have this problem at this

> > level. How many years it took you to come to this level after the

start of the illness?

For me it was around 8 yrs into illness or so (hard to remember

clearly). It was a gradual thing, so that also makes it hard to tell

exactly how many yrs ago it started but definitely many years into the

illness.

>>Also what was your functionality level when you reached that state.

I was quite a lot more functional than now. Perhaps 30-40%?

I didn't and don't have feelings of brain swelling. I do wonder how

come this has also become so intensified in me that at my worst, which

can go on for a very long time, I cannot talk to others because the

noise of voices bothers my brain a great deal; my own voice bothers my

brain tremendously, especially when I try to carry on a conversation

when clearly I'm not well enough to do. I also have to wear earplugs

a great deal; yep, it does make you feel like you're going crazy.

Sounds intensify in your brain; often I'll notice this that a tiny

sound is distorted by my brain and to me it's a massive very

bothersome noise. Same with light sensitivity. But sound is worse.

I find that if I'm lucky enough to sleep better this becomes more

subdued but the problem is being able to sleep better in the first

place. Also in winter this sensory overload just becomes kind of like

a force of its own; cognitive/neurological symptoms flare up big time

and it's extremely hard.

Klonopin used to help but 4 yrs into it, it no longer does much at

all. Any suggestions?

Best regards,

a