Guest guest Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 If your liver is not clearing well then yes, the LDN could be building up in there. You can try skipping a dose every few days but better would be to work on clearing your liver detox pathways. Milk Thistle and ALA are both good for that. I would suggest researching them to see if it is something you want to try. JaxiOn Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 4:50 PM, joyce <jamkaye@...> wrote: I find that I can only take LDN for 3 days in a row and then I need to go off because I believe it builds up in my body and I don't throw it off until about the 4th day when I stop sleeping and have nausea and diahrea. Would liver toxicity be the problem? If not what causes this? It was great to go off last night and have a good nights sleep. joyce I only weigh about 110 so maybe the 1.5mg is enough for me which is what I am taking in the Morning because my circadium rythym is possibly reversed. I love this stuff! joyce ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 I'm wondering why you suspect liver toxicity. Could you point me to a link where this is stated? Dr. Zagon (message #101241) wrote that people's " different pharmacology " could lead to either tolerance, needing more to produce a benefit, or sensitivity, needing less. Dosing could be from 3 - 10 mg daily, or 3 mg every second or third day, depending. From post #101495, he says, " And - get this - LDN and especially OGF - can be taken once/week and you can get the same effect as daily administration. " Huh? I'm finding 4.5 mg daily makes me feel terrible - no OGF rebound. I took 2 days off and then took 4.5 mg and felt great the next day. 4.5 mg 2 days in a row makes me feel bad again. Wouldn't liver problems show up in a blood test? My liver enzymes are low. I just wonder why this conclusion is drawn when one processes LDN slowly. Karyn > > > I find that I can only take LDN for 3 days in a row and then I need to go > > off because I believe it builds up in my body and I don't throw it off until > > about the 4th day when I stop sleeping and have nausea and diahrea. Would > > liver toxicity be the problem? If not what causes this? It was great to go > > off last night and have a good nights sleep. joyce I only weigh about 110 > > so maybe the 1.5mg is enough for me which is what I am taking in the Morning > > because my circadium rythym is possibly reversed. I love this stuff! joyce > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 02:07:48 -0400, skystone42 <kcjlr@...> wrote: > I'm wondering why you suspect liver toxicity. Could you point me to a > link where this is stated? > > Dr. Zagon (message #101241) wrote that people's " different pharmacology " > could lead to either tolerance, needing more to produce a benefit, or > sensitivity, needing less. Dosing could be from 3 - 10 mg daily, or 3 > mg every second or third day, depending. > > From post #101495, he says, " And - get this - LDN and especially OGF - > can be taken once/week and you can get the same effect as daily > administration. " Huh? > > I'm finding 4.5 mg daily makes me feel terrible - no OGF rebound. I > took 2 days off and then took 4.5 mg and felt great the next day. 4.5 > mg 2 days in a row makes me feel bad again. > > Wouldn't liver problems show up in a blood test? My liver enzymes are > low. I just wonder why this conclusion is drawn when one processes LDN > slowly. > > Karyn Karyn, I have exactly the issue you do with LDN -- and it took me some months to figure out that I needed a lower dose and also a regular break from. And then a still lower dose yet again later. And now I'm about to ask my gastroenterologist to prescribe not more than 3 mg/day for me (my current Rx is 4.25, though I'm actually taking less). And even at 3 mg I have to omit the LDN at least every fourth night. My liver blood work (and even an ultrasound) has been fine. I've been taking ALA (and often milk thistle as well) for quite some time but it makes no difference at all in how I react to LDN (or any other drug or herb). I've been quite drug sensitive for as long as I can remember; and even with herbs a little goes a long way with me. I no longer accept, as has been said frequently here, that people like me (and you) are sensitive because of some sort of liver problem. I think in my case it's just a physiological thing, possibly even partly genetic -- or, as Dr. Zagon said, " different pharmacology. " I'm not saying that liver problems might not be at issue for some people who can't tolerate much LDN, but I don't think it applies in my case. And it sounds as if it doesn't in yours. n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 I am not sure of any links to the science of it but what I recall from many previous posts here is that some suspect LDN builds up in their livers - is not passed or cleared through the system as well as it should be. No idea if there are blood or other tests that would give you an indicator of this. The two most common reasons I see discussed for why LDN might stop working for someone - 1. Candida - which many of us have to at least some degree - perhaps those of us here more so than the general population due to the history many of us have from being on prescription medications including antibiotics and steroids AND 2. sluggish liver so the LDN is building up thus the blockade system is not working as it should be. Given the amount of environmental toxins we are exposed to on a daily basis just by " being " I find it highly believable we all could use some detox assistance - even folks like myself who eat disgustingly healthy diets (by necessity). One day a week I work in a newer court building that I am convinced is still gassing off toxic crap as I always feel like crap by the end of the day there - headache, foggy, sluggish, sore throat, etc - and it takes usually 12 - 48 hrs to get back to feeling normal. And some weeks I have to be there more than one day a week. Add that to car fumes, industrial crap, stuff in our water and air we cannot control - well ... anyway ... steps off soap box As for tests - home or medical I will leave that to the folks here who know more about it and have those sorts of links handy. Jaxi On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 1:07 AM, skystone42 <kcjlr@...> wrote: I'm wondering why you suspect liver toxicity. Could you point me to a link where this is stated? Dr. Zagon (message #101241) wrote that people's " different pharmacology " could lead to either tolerance, needing more to produce a benefit, or sensitivity, needing less. Dosing could be from 3 - 10 mg daily, or 3 mg every second or third day, depending. From post #101495, he says, " And - get this - LDN and especially OGF - can be taken once/week and you can get the same effect as daily administration. " Huh?I'm finding 4.5 mg daily makes me feel terrible - no OGF rebound. I took 2 days off and then took 4.5 mg and felt great the next day. 4.5 mg 2 days in a row makes me feel bad again. Wouldn't liver problems show up in a blood test? My liver enzymes are low. I just wonder why this conclusion is drawn when one processes LDN slowly.Karyn >> > I find that I can only take LDN for 3 days in a row and then I need to go> > off because I believe it builds up in my body and I don't throw it off until > > about the 4th day when I stop sleeping and have nausea and diahrea. Would> > liver toxicity be the problem? If not what causes this? It was great to go> > off last night and have a good nights sleep. joyce I only weigh about 110 > > so maybe the 1.5mg is enough for me which is what I am taking in the Morning> > because my circadium rythym is possibly reversed. I love this stuff! joyce> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------ > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Maybe it would be best to call Skip's pharmacy because they advised me NOT to skip doses and then start back up. They told me to break open my capsule of 4.5 mg into a bottle of 4.5 distilled water and divide it up into 1.5 doses because it was my second week and my eczema went crazy. I have been doing that and it helps along with no sugar or grains and high good fat diet. > > > > > > > I find that I can only take LDN for 3 days in a row and then I need to > > go > > > > off because I believe it builds up in my body and I don't throw it off > > until > > > > about the 4th day when I stop sleeping and have nausea and diahrea. > > Would > > > > liver toxicity be the problem? If not what causes this? It was great to > > go > > > > off last night and have a good nights sleep. joyce I only weigh about > > 110 > > > > so maybe the 1.5mg is enough for me which is what I am taking in the > > Morning > > > > because my circadium rythym is possibly reversed. I love this stuff! > > joyce > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 I daily take 1 tab of predlisolone. It impairs my tongue making it difficult for me to eat something. When I discontinue it disturbs my digestion which is already disrupted. Can anybody advise me. On 4/9/11, Sara Mandal-Joy <smjlist@...> wrote: > I am told that problems show up for the first time in your bloodwork > once you only have 5% functioning liver left to work with. It just > keeps " making do " till it can't any more. So by the time something > shows up in your bloodwork, something is very very wrong. I have taken > anabolic steroids for years for my condition, so this a huge concern for > me. Until the liver starts to close down, at under 5% functionality, > they don't have a clue when a problem has begun. Sara > >> >> > Wouldn't liver problems show up in a blood test? My liver enzymes are >> > low. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 I am told that problems show up for the first time in your bloodwork once you only have 5% functioning liver left to work with. It just keeps " making do " till it can't any more. So by the time something shows up in your bloodwork, something is very very wrong. I have taken anabolic steroids for years for my condition, so this a huge concern for me. Until the liver starts to close down, at under 5% functionality, they don't have a clue when a problem has begun. Sara > > > Wouldn't liver problems show up in a blood test? My liver enzymes are > > low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 There seems to be test to detect liver problems before the liver quits.The alanine aminotransferase (ALT) blood test is typically used to detect liver injury. It is often ordered in conjunction with aspartate aminotransferase (AST) or as part of a liver panel to screen for and/or help diagnose liver disease. AST and ALT are considered to be two of the most important tests to detect liver injury, although ALT is more specific than AST. Sometimes AST is compared directly to ALT and an AST/ALT ratio is calculated. This ratio may be used to distinguish between different causes of liver damage. StirlingFrom: Sara Mandal-Joy <smjlist@...>Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Liver toxicity?low dose naltrexone Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 8:44 AM I am told that problems show up for the first time in your bloodwork once you only have 5% functioning liver left to work with. It just keeps "making do" till it can't any more. So by the time something shows up in your bloodwork, something is very very wrong. I have taken anabolic steroids for years for my condition, so this a huge concern for me. Until the liver starts to close down, at under 5% functionality, they don't have a clue when a problem has begun. Sara > > > Wouldn't liver problems show up in a blood test? My liver enzymes are > > low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Some folks are assuming that there needs to be a " buildup in the liver " etc to account for why there is so much variability in how we each react to LDN, and why some seem to need every-other-day dosing, much higher or lower doses, etc etc.... But in reality, naltrexone (NTX) is subject, particularly when doses are low or " ultra " (micrograms) low, to a hugely variable individual hepatic metabolism. That is to say, one person could absorb less than half or more than twice as much NTX from the same dosage as someone else. Also, each individual will probably have wildly different levels of NTX's key active metabolite, beta-6-naltrexol. B6NTX is crucial because its half-life is far longer than that of NTX itself. So, even though the NTX may be out of your system and no longer antagonizing receptors in 4-8 hours, the beta-6 metabolite can continue to be active for 16-24 hours or more. This has caused me to alter my ultra-low NTX regimen from 100-300mcg/day in a single morning dose to several smaller doses of 12-75mcg every 4 hours or so. I have experienced much better results in lowering my opiate pain medication tolerance this way, and fewer antagonist side effects (withdrawal-like excessive excitatory signaling in my CNS, insomnia, etc). I think that this lesson can be carried over into the low-dose world. Don't be afraid to experiment a bit. There is no one " perfect " dose for everyone with NTX, nor even one perfect dosing regime. This gives doctors headaches because it makes their job of prescribing/directing treatment almost impossibly complex in this instance, but it can be managed if we are willing to do the work to self-direct our own LDN regimens and do our own one-person " clinical trials. " My suspicion is that most, though not all, LDN patients could benefit from every-other-day higher dosing, or possibly from very low daily doses (some even below 1mg -- after all, if 1 *microgram* has an effect while I'm simultaneously taking pain meds, then even a small fraction of 1mg should be at least somewhat useful on its own!). Perhaps we may even discover that the idea of near-total LDN style blockade makes less sense than a ULDN-style dosage that only antagonizes a small percentage of receptors at a time round the clock, leaving the rest open for business to receive OGF 24/7 uninterrupted. Until somebody sets me up with willing human test subjects and a mad scientist lab capable of giving us hard data on all this....we must be willing to explore the fringes of opioid/neuro-immune science and gather knowledge from first-hand experience. I hope this was helpful and not too saturated with opaque techno-babble :-) - from Maine Sent from my iPad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 There are expensive tests that will show the liver condition. If you need much lower dose of medicines then others. If you wake every night around 2 oclock. If you cannot have a glass of red wine. If coffee in the evening will keep you awake for hours. Then probably your liver is not optimal I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.SPAMfighter has removed 3204 of my spam emails to date.Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Hey Joyce,I seem to have the same issue. I tried for a long time to take it at night and could never get a good nights sleep. If I skip a night that I can sleep. I changed over to daytime dosing also. I was at 3.0 but have dropped down to 2.5 mg. I think I need to skip one to two days a week also. Maybe it does not leave our bodies as quickly as other people.I keep trying but now have prickling feelings, and warm(burning) spots in intermittent parts of my body. Very weird.Hang in there.I find that I can only take LDN for 3 days in a row and then I need to go off because I believe it builds up in my body and I don't throw it off until about the 4th day when I stop sleeping and have nausea and diahrea. Would liver toxicity be the problem? If not what causes this? It was great to go off last night and have a good nights sleep. joyce I only weigh about 110 so maybe the 1.5mg is enough for me which is what I am taking in the Morning because my circadium rythym is possibly reversed. I love this stuff! joyceFrom: joyce <jamkaye@...>low dose naltrexone Sent: Thu, April 7, 2011 5:50:56 PMSubject: [low dose naltrexone] Liver toxicity? I find that I can only take LDN for 3 days in a row and then I need to go off because I believe it builds up in my body and I don't throw it off until about the 4th day when I stop sleeping and have nausea and diahrea. Would liver toxicity be the problem? If not what causes this? It was great to go off last night and have a good nights sleep. joyce I only weigh about 110 so maybe the 1.5mg is enough for me which is what I am taking in the Morning because my circadium rythym is possibly reversed. I love this stuff! joyce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Is there some evidence that LDN is cleared through the liver? I can think of a number of ways that chemicals clear: the kidneys, the lungs, can break down into other forms, etc. Just curious since so many think that is the problem. Francie > > I am told that problems show up for the first time in your bloodwork > once you only have 5% functioning liver left to work with. It just > keeps " making do " till it can't any more. So by the time something > shows up in your bloodwork, something is very very wrong. I have taken > anabolic steroids for years for my condition, so this a huge concern for > me. Until the liver starts to close down, at under 5% functionality, > they don't have a clue when a problem has begun. Sara > > > > > > Wouldn't liver problems show up in a blood test? My liver enzymes are > > > low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I’ve been on LDN for over a year at 4.5mg and I sleep much longer, have trouble waking up & then feel a little drugged in the morning, so I haven’t toke it for the past 2 nights and notice that feeling is wearing off. Does anyone else get this? Maybe it’s too much or has built up. Any suggestions?Terri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Joyce, It's fairly simple, really....all you have to do is take the same procedure that many folks on this list already use to produce doses in the " low " (1-5mg) range -- dissolving a 50mg tablet in a bottle of water -- and dilute it further. Many LDN uses dilute their solution to a ratio of 1mg per milliliter; I typically dissolve a 50mg tab in a one-liter glass bottle to produce a solution containing 50mcg/ml. This can be then further diluted in another liter to produce 25mg/ml, another two liters to reach 12.5mg/ml, and so on. Dilution doesn't produce a perfectly equal amount in every mL, particularly if you don't shake the bottle before each dose...but it does work very well and the variations are inconsequentially trivial, esp. If you do in fact shake before each dose. The naltrexone is naturally distributed evenly throughout the water volume by partial pressure, as I understand it. - from Maine On Apr 10, 2011, at 12:36 PM, " joyce " <jamkaye@...> wrote: > How do you get it into such small doses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 I'm sure you've got your measurements all mixed up, Liters? Silvia > > > How do you get it into such small doses? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 The math is all mixed up. You have 50 mcg (micro grams) and then dilute it further to get 25 mg (milli gram) did you mean 25 mcg and then 12.5mcg?Why such small dose? Seems a waste of product, in addition when naltrexone is dissolved in water the naltrexone stays in solution and the filler settles to the bottom. The filler contains no naltrexone.StirlingFrom: lucretia1419 <lucretia14@...>Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Liver toxicity?low dose naltrexone Date: Thursday, April 14, 2011, 9:25 AM I'm sure you've got your measurements all mixed up, Liters? Silvia > > > How do you get it into such small doses? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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