Probiotics

[Guest guest]

Well I plead guilty again. Would someone please explain probiotics.

And also Robin what is this 50 pills a day statement? Is that how

many are necessary for a cleanse or was that just an exaggeration?

Joan

Proverbs <proverbs333@...>

<< My first suggestion is to make sure that you are

>taking plenty of probiotics and taking PLENTY of

>things to help your immune system. That is an area

>which i have sometimes overlooked while taking my

>plethura of supplements. Wehn you are forced to

>swallow 50 pills a day, who wants to add another 10 to

>12 for immune and acidophillus. These are critical,

>because you cannot expect your body to continue to

>fight when its in a depleted state. also, in all my

>research, i am continually seeing new reasons to take

>probiotics. they are multi purpose in our system. >>

[Guest guest]

Joan,

For more information on probiotics check out the website, natren.com. It's very

informative. Here is a sample of what's on this page:

http://www.natren.com/ln_learnnowfr.html

Residential bacteria form colonies in your gastrointestinal tract, mouth, and

vaginal tract. Transient bacteria are travelers that are just passing through.

Friendly bacteria—including Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifido-bacterium bifidum,

and Lactobacillus bulgaricus—are your body’s first line of defense against the

potentially harmful microorganisms that you inhale or ingest. Probiotics is

another term for these friendly bacteria that live and work in your

gastrointestinal tract every day of your life. Think of them as the " home

guard, " a mighty bacterial army that defends your body against dangerous

invaders. Having sufficient numbers of these friendly bacteria in residence can

help prevent a wide range of health problems.

There's a lot more information on different health problems that may be helped

thru probiotic supplements.

Take a look. You'll be glad you did.

Cherie

[Guest guest]

> My question on probiotics concerns the amount needed to aid proper digestion.

Should one be making their own yogurt or ferments? How many organisms does it

take for a proper amount of flora? What can we do so that the flora will take

hold, etc.? How much of a drop in the bucket is a bottle of probiotics?

J.

[Guest guest]

I am on this program and it is working great.

http://www.candidaprogram.com

Robin

probiotics

Hi,

Can anyone recommend a particular probiotic product they

like? Has anyone looked into the D'Adamo Eat-right-4-your-

type Probiotics? I read something kind of strange in

his book, but it didn't go into depth on it, unfortunately.

I'm a type AB, and he said that ABs are very prone to yeast

problems, but that eliminating yeast from their diets won't

help, in fact it will make it worse. Given that he

didn't go into more detail, I'd want to hear a lot more

before putting stock in what he says there. He also gives

no clue about remedial actions in this type.

Are there some particular probiotics or combinations

that people have found useful for them? One of the books

that I read from the library..I think it was the Candida

Directory and cookbook suggested that one use just the

probiotic, and gut-healing supplements for the first

6 weeks, and then add the antifungals to the program. Maybe

as a strengthener, and a preparation for the die-off

stage? Anyone else heard a similar suggestion?

also on the east coast, up in Massachusetts.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/8/00 10:52:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

springtale@... writes:

> i have read that probiotics

> are important in replacing the flora...but how you do know what is

> good and what isn't...there are so many choices out there...can

> anyone suggest a specific brand...

***I've been told that Jarrow is a good brand, and that brand (in some preps)

includes FOS (fructo-oligosaccharides), a type of " sugar " which feeds the

good bacteria, The yeast cannot use it, so it allows the good guys to

multiply rapidly.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

> ***I've been told that Jarrow is a good brand, and that brand (in some

preps)

> includes FOS (fructo-oligosaccharides), a type of " sugar " which feeds the

> good bacteria, The yeast cannot use it, so it allows the good guys to

> multiply rapidly.

>

> Lynn

I think FOS is OK for most people, but my doctor recently advised me to stay

away from it as he feared it would feed the pathogenic intestinal bacteria

in the small bowel. I'm not sure how he decided I was at particular risk

for this.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi - welcome to here!!

On 9 Oct 00, at 2:51, springtale@... wrote:

> Can anyone say how long it takes

> to kick this thing?

Well, I'm forever asking my homeopath this and he says 'how long

is a piece of string...?' I guess it depends how long you've had it,

where it is and how firm a hold it's got, but I have seen 'a month for

every year you've been sick' quoted as a VERY rough guideline.

> isn't...there are so many choices out there...can anyone suggest a

> specific brand...

I generally find you can't go wrong with Solgar. They're a ltitle more

expensive than other brands, but their supplements are always

good quality and they seem to work! My cupboard is full of little

gold bottles!!

Ann

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.willow-web.net Quality Web Design

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Harout - if you had been around this group for some time you would see that we cover all the issues you brought up... *regularly*

nice to meet you

wendy

PROBIOTICS

Hi Everyone,

Candidiasis is due to intestinal flora imbalances in the digestive system. That is due to mainly four factors: Antibiotics (the main reason), infection, stress and bad diet.

Probiotics are the most natural and common sence approach to bring the intestinal and vaginal flora balance back to normalcy.

You can check the internet for various probiotic supplements and manufacturers. Two sites of importance with a lot of educational info. are:

http://www.natren.com and

http://www.customprobiotics.com

Prescription antifungal usage is beneficial temporarily. It is not a permanent solution. Candida gets used to antifungals, hence you have to rotate them. This will lead to more resistant strains of Candida and hence you may need higher doses.

Following a no yeast, no fruit, no sugar diet and taking high doses of multistrain probiotics will solve that problem in most cases. Following a natural food diet is very important.

You must understand how YOUR body works. Do your own research. Unfortunaely Doctors, in most cases, are money oriented, not research oriented.

We have 100 trillion bacteria (2 pounds) in our digestive system. 85% should be of the good type and 15% the bad type. When this balance is changed, we get all kinds of symptoms and we go from one Doctor to another. The more this imbalance the more the symptoms. Dosage of probiotics varies from person to person. It can be 25 billion per day or 250 billion per day. The intestinal flora of every person is different, like a fingerprint.

I hope the above helps. I have solved my Candida problem after 10 years of suffering and trying everything imaginable.

Take care.

Harout

--- Harout Bronozian

--- hbenviro@...

--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

Send blank message to candidiasis-unsubscribeonelist if you want to UNSUBSCRIBE !

[Guest guest]

--- Tina Kuhnline <clrk@...> wrote:

> I have always agreed with the idea that you should

> be careful when storing

> your probiotics (keeping them cool), but if it is

> true that warmth will kill

> them, then what happens when they hit our 98*

> bellies? Just thinking here.

Tina,

The cool environment " hibernates " the bacteria

somewhat.

It slows their activities down and therefore they use

less rescources. When they hit the gut temperature

they get more active, and there is plenty of food

supply for them.

The survival issue for them is getting through the

stomach and the digestive juices.

Hope this helps.

wink

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

From what I understand body temp is perfect, cold keeps them dormant and

sprinkling them on top of a hot cereal will kill them, any body know

differently? I'd hate to be wasting my energy doing this all wrong!

Sharon in Virginia

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:10:39 -0800 " Tina Kuhnline " <clrk@...>

writes:

> I have always agreed with the idea that you should be careful when

> storing

> your probiotics (keeping them cool), but if it is true that warmth

> will kill

> them, then what happens when they hit our 98* bellies? Just

> thinking here.

> Tina K.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the interesting replies; a selection is presented

below. What I have just learned is that some companies, at least

BioCare from the UK, claim that their probiotics are resistant to

stomach and gall-bladder acid and can thus be taken with food. I

guess there are other aspects to probiotics to consider as well (such

as the number of bacteria), but it shows that there could be

differences between brands, too.

-- Helge

At 01:45 +0100 09.11.01, aljuarez@... wrote:

>Well, I heard that if you take them at least 30 minutes before food or 2

>hours after food then they should be OK and not killed in the stomach by

>acid

At 12:35 -0800 06.11.01, Donna wrote:

>I do probiotics with fruit. Fruit keeps the stomach alkaline and

>give the probiotics something to eat while they travel and it seems

>to work well.

At 14:32 -0500 08.11.01, sharon.morris@... wrote:

>From what I understand body temp is perfect, cold keeps them dormant and

>sprinkling them on top of a hot cereal will kill them

[Guest guest]

Does he recommend what probiotic to use?

Or are they all acid forming?

Nicki

--- Tina Kuhnline <clrk@...> wrote:

> In his book, Cleanse and Purify Thyself,

> says that

> acid-producing probiotics are the harmful ones, if

> used daily. He says they

> do have their value, like when you are sick, but not

> to implant on a regular

> basis. He also says that the problem bacteria that

> is in those formulas is

> Lactobacillus Acidophilus. (Take a second look at

> the name--ACIDophilus)

> The problem, he says is that they cause your body to

> become acid instead of

> alkaline.

> Tina in Idaho

>

********************************************************************

> " Articles I have read say probiotics are

> contraindicated in those with severe dysbiosis.

> Recent article said that

> the now popular use of mega doses of probios will be

> refuted in the near

> future or at least oral dosing??? We shall see Deb "

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Tina thanks for that info. I've had both medical and

natural doctors tell me I'm not a normal person with

normal reactions to both medicine and natural

prepairations. Not a nice feeling but know it's true

!!! The doctor over here (germany) gave me some

natural flora combination which she said was very mild

and she uses it on infants. I was to start with 5

drops a day working my way up to 10-20 the highest I

got was 8 before I had reactions. I have read that

soil based probiotics such as what is in Primal

defense are different for the body and it's what

mother nature intended. I don't know if it's alkaline

or not. All I know is I need flora for my intestines.

The doctor here also gave my some acidophilus, she

said this isn't as good as the other stuff cause it's

primary purpose is for the colon and I need

intestional flore. I have no problem with the

acidophilus, I feel better when I take it. I am more

alkaline than acid which the doctors say is one of the

reasons for my allergies as they thrive in this

environment. I tried changing my diet but nothing

seemed to change my ph. My husband on the other hand

is too acid and he's getting his levels down but very

slowly. He takes no probiotics. I wanted him to take

the primal defense to as it is suppose to regulate

your ph. I don't know if this would be good for him or

not because I'm sure there is acidolopus in it. Do you

know anything about primal defense regulating both too

acid or too alkaline?

Nicki

--- Tina Kuhnline <clrk@...> wrote:

> Nicki,

> I looked it up to make sure and to get more info.

> for you.

> Here's what says:

> " My experience indicates that the best general

> probiotic formula consists of

> Bifidobacterium infantis, along with a variety of

> other bifidobacteria, as

> well as a small percentage of acidophilus. "

> He also says that acidophilus produces an acid

> by-product with a pH between

> 3.0 and 4.5. He says because of that extreme

> acidity, bowel problems are

> likely to occur if a more alkaline-forming formula,

> such as one containing

> Bifidobacterium, is not used after taking

> acidophilus.

> Tina

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Nicky, here are 2 links with info on Primal Defense and below a link with

lots of info on Probiotics. Maybe this will clear up some of your questions.

Tchüss, schönesWochenende

Christel

Primal Defense

http://www.risingstarlc.com/pdindex.htm

http://www.naturalhealthconsult.com/Monographs/PrimeDefense.html

Summary of probiotic strains

http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/candida/summary.html

[Guest guest]

Not only do I believe you can cure a mild case of candida overgrowth

with probiotics but it is the essential core of any treatment

protocol.

I've had very good success with Primal Defense, www.gardenoflife.cc

and Flora Source, www.marysgarden.com . I think these two need to be

taken together to be successful.

Tom

[Guest guest]

what do you consider " mild " ? and how long do you think you need to

take them for?

> Not only do I believe you can cure a mild case of candida

overgrowth

> with probiotics but it is the essential core of any treatment

> protocol.

> I've had very good success with Primal Defense, www.gardenoflife.cc

> and Flora Source, www.marysgarden.com . I think these two need to

be

> taken together to be successful.

>

> Tom

[Guest guest]

Hi I've just read your post on the different stages of candidiasis. Very

informative I thought. I must be in the fourth stage according to the info.

I'm on a good program and some of the symptoms have subsided however I

sustained some organ damage as a result of the prolonged battle. Will they

get better?? I'm on a very healthy organic diet. Do you have any more info

on people in these late stages?? Is there light at the end of the tunnel. I

actually feel great most of the time except for the hives and organ damage.

Mark

[Guest guest]

A mild case would be the first stage.

WHAT SYMPTOMS MAY BE CAUSED BY CANDIDA?

In the First Stage of Candida, the mucous membrane areas of the body

may be infected. These include the mouth, vagina, nose, and

Respiratory System. Besides vaginal infections, severe P.M.S.,

urinary tract infections, body rashes, acne, and oral thrush,

ALLERGIES to foods, dust, molds, fungus, yeast, inhalants, and

chemicals are the most common symptoms. Each day more people seem to

be allergic to everything in their environment. Repeated bouts of

bronchitis, sinusitis, tonsillitis, and strep or staph infections may

be typical. Mononucleosis and pneumonia may also be noted. It is easy

to perceive that each of these successive illnesses requires more and

more antibiotics, which may open the door for further Candida

overgrowth. Talk about a vicious circle!

The Second Stage of Candida may involve more generalized reactions

such as PAIN, HEADACHES (including Migraine), EXTREME FATIGUE,

PSORIASIS, INFECTIONS OF THE NAILS, MUSCLE ACHES, JOINT PAINS, AND

ARTHRITIS. Naturally, drug after drug is usually taken in hopes of

alleviating these miserable conditions. In most cases, the SYMPTOMS

alone are being treated--while the CAUSE (Candida overgrowth) may be

literally being PROMOTED at the same time!

The Third Stage of Candida may involve MENTAL and BEHAVIORAL

RESPONSES: Inability to concentrate, not being able to read or follow

a television program or carry on a hobby, serious forgetfulness,

memory loss, mental confusion, not being able to think of the words

to say something, switching around of words and letters when trying

to speak and/or write something, loss of previous skills (such as how-

to-type or how-to-play-the-piano, etc.) These frightening problems

may often lead to " HOPELESS CRYING " SPELLS, SEVERE DEPRESSION, SLEEP

DISORDERS (may include insomnia, confusion dreams, nightmares, apnea,

and not feeling rested or restored after sleep), IRRATIONAL THOUGHTS,

UNUSUAL FEARS, PHOBIAS, PANIC/ANXIETY ATTACKS, MUSCLE TWITCHING,

IRRITABILITY, VIOLENCE, AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR, and even EPILEPTIC

SEIZURES and THOUGHTS OF DEATH OR SUICIDE. Sometimes people with

these symptoms are labeled " Mentally ill " , thought to be suffering

from manic-depressive Psychosis or Schizophrenia. These desperately

sick patients are sometimes turned over to the care of a psychiatrist

or hospitalized in a mental institution. They may be given

antidepressants, tranquilizers, lithium, etc. to lighten the mental

symptoms. . But the CAUSE may be overlooked and the patient is not

CURED on a long-term basis.

A person in the Fourth Stage of Candida may experience a virtual

SHUTDOWN OF VARIOUS ORGAN SYSTEMS of the body. For example, the

adrenal glands may stop functioning when the Endocrine System fails,

or the Digestive System may stop, producing vomiting or severe

constipation. The extreme fatigue may escalate into TOTAL MUSCLE

WEAKNESS, such as the neck muscles no longer being able to hold up

the head. The body rashes may escalate into HIVES or BOILS. The

Circulatory System may be swamped with so much yeast that the

capillaries are clogged, causing HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, NUMBNESS OF

EXTREMITIES, and EASY BRUISING. The person may run a low-grade fever,

but the hands and feet will often be very cold. The HEART may develop

TACHYCARDIA (palpitations, irregular beats, mitral valve problems or

heart murmur). In the Respiratory System, the alveoli (air sacs) of

the lungs may be packed with yeast so that the person cannot get

adequate breath for speaking, singing, or exercise; there may be a

FEELING OF SUFFOCATION, which may lead to HYPERVENTILATION and PANIC.

The complete failure of the Immune System leaves the body defenseless

against all enemy bacteria, viruses, and disease conditions--

including cancer.

The Fifth Stage of Candida seems inevitable at this point: rampant

systemic Candidiasis is 100% fatal unless it is diagnosed early

enough to kill the yeast overgrowth and regenerate the Immune System

[Guest guest]

Mark, I came back for the beginning symptoms of stage four in my 15

year battle with candida. It can be done but you have to be very

aggressive and stick with a program long enough to see results.

These are the things I learned to focus on, elimination,

assimilation, alkalization and flora balance.

I have high praise for Primal Defense but it took about a year on the

maximum amount to see results, this initiated a good immune response

and healed my gut. I also think its essential to provide a favorable

enviroment for the friendly bacteria with a good green food and lots

of it. Its also a good idea to check your gastric acid, do this by

taking some Betaine HCL with a meal, if it doesn't cause heart burn

or burning in the stomach, its a sign that you are low and need it. I

also took a lot of cleansing herbs, coconut oil, molybdenum,

distilled water (alkalized with trace minerals). I tried a lot of

different stuff but these are the main ones that helped me. The main

thing with stage four is to get the immune system built back and help

for the endocrine glands.

Tom

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom

Thank you for the info and so quickly!! I've been having good luck with

SF222 and probiotics. However my body responds quickly to anything. It

always has, the problem however is that it becomes overwhelmed or over

responsive very quickly and than I have to change programs and or diet. My

doctor tells me to change foods on a daily basis so this does'nt happen

anymore. Well as I'm sure you know there is'nt a whole lot of foods to choose

from on a candida diet?? I was doing the coconut oil for a while and then

boom allergic reaction. I also cannot tolerate any thing with acids in it.

I've even overdone it with probiotics however the yeast seems very under

control according to my doctor and my colonist. What does molybendum do?

I've heard of it but I have no idea. My doctor took me offf the SF222 today

and put me on UNDECYN . My body was no longer responding to the SF222 and

tested much stonger for the Undecyn. Could this be because the Yeast

mutates?? Any further info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for

the quick responce Mark.

[Guest guest]

Mark, I'm not familiar with those products but did take a look at

them, they look good for antifungals. What probiotics are you taking?

What do you mean when you say your body responds too quickly and

overwhelms you? Are you mistaking die off symptoms for allergic

response? I always looked forward to as severe die off as I could

get, I knew then that I was doing something right. There were times I

had to stop and rest but I would pick up where I left off and suffer

all over again, I don't think this can be avoided entirely but can be

eased somewhat with the Molybdenum and enzymes. Yes, the antifungals

will become ineffective if one is used for too long, keep rotating

them. The antifungals are important but they will not give a lasting

cure until the the friendly bacteria is back to levels that will keep

the candida under control. Taking antifungals is like cutting weeds

off at the ground, they will be back, antifungals are good only for

lightening the load of candida until the probiotics can take over,

let the bacteria be your main focus. Primal Defense did this for me,

however I have seen post where some say it didn't work for them, my

personal opinion is that they didn't take enough and didn't take it

long enough. I do think it has gaps that need to be filled by taking

another probiotic along with it like Flora Source.

As for diet, I think too much emphasis has been placed on what we can

eat and what we can not, just ask yourself before you eat it, how

fast will this turn to sugar? Try to eat foods that turn to sugar

slowly, this turns out to be mostly vegetables. If you will avoid all

sugar, bread and yeast products, you'll be allright.

Tom

[Guest guest]

Not taking any at the moment... I eat plain unsweetened acidophilus yoghurt

instead.

Ali

At 06:51 p.m. 15/02/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyone taking these or found a certain brand that works really well? There

>seem to be alot of different brands and, of course, they all claim to be

>the best,

[Guest guest]

At 06:51 PM 2/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyone taking these or found a certain brand that works really well? There

>seem to be alot of different brands and, of course, they all claim to be

>the best, sigh, jd

I now use Bio-K products, found at http://www.biokplus.com/ and it's been

great for me as far as I can tell.

" Worship the potato? The idea seemed silly to me. But then

I thought, what else is more deserving of worship? It's simple,

it comes from the earth, and it can kill you if you disobey it. "

- Jack Handey

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[Guest guest]

I'm taking Bio-K+ as well. Expensive! Found it at whole foods for about $25

for six tiny bottles (you start slow: a 1/4 bottle per day for awhile).

We'll see if it helps....

Message: 6

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:57:02 -0500

From: Gerard Godin <gerard.godin@...>

Subject: Re: Probiotics

At 06:51 PM 2/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyone taking these or found a certain brand that works really well? There

>seem to be alot of different brands and, of course, they all claim to be

>the best, sigh, jd

I now use Bio-K products, found at http://www.biokplus.com/ and it's been

great for me as far as I can tell.

" Worship the potato? The idea seemed silly to me. But then

I thought, what else is more deserving of worship? It's simple,

it comes from the earth, and it can kill you if you disobey it. "

- Jack Handey

_________________________________________________________________

Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

At 03:16 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, you wrote:

>I'm taking Bio-K+ as well. Expensive! Found it at whole foods for about $25

>for six tiny bottles (you start slow: a 1/4 bottle per day for awhile).

>We'll see if it helps....

Wow, expensive.. I get 15 in a case at my local natural food and

supplements store for $40 Canadian, which is about $25 US

I find it really worth it so far though.

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