sleeping

[Guest guest]

As you know...

We now know that (despite some psych experts' claims to the

contrary) sleep dreaming (and associated involuntary rapid eye

movement) have real physical benefits and that REM deprivation can

come as a result of numerous causes (alone or in combination), the

question more clearly becomes as follows...

Does the combination of REM deprivation causes result

in " unrelenting " REM deprivation during sleep?

If REM deprivation is not " unrelenting " , then the body/brain has a

way of allowing unusually vivid/active dreaming and rapid eye

movement during " breakthrough " REM sleep dreaming.

>

>

> In a message dated 11/27/2005 11:57:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> SSRI medications writes:

>

>

> I wonder if poor nutrition can also lead to sleep disturbance,

and then

> to depression.

>

>

>

>

> Look at the people who consume 10- 12 cups of coffee a day, or

drink a six

> pack of some poisonous diet soda, or eat tons of sugar, and other

foods loaded

> with chemicals -- I doubt those people get a good night's sleep.

How could

> they??

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

My daughter has 3mg Melatonin and this works well for her . . .. no

side effects that we are aware of.

Good luck

Jill

[ ] Sleeping

I have a call in to the neuro, but thought I'd also ask you guys. My

son (6) has a very hard time going to sleep. It often takes 2+

hours. He is very active during the day, no naps, etc. Is there

anything that we can give him that might possibly be safe!? For

example, melatonin, Calms, etc.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Hi , Did you have your surgery recently? That would explain your

tenderness. If so I would just try to sleep on the other side for a while.

If you aren't a recent implantee, I would suggest talking to the doctor, as

I don't believe it should be that tender. You might want to rule out any

possible problems with the implant site. It doesn't matter to me what

pillow I use anymore; all of them are comfortable.

Ruth

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:53 AM

Subject: Sleeping

Yesterday I woke up to find I had slept hard on my implant with it acheing

and with a queasy stomach, and again this morning. I have tried 3 different

pillows, memory, soft and tiny pellets. Any better suggestions for a

comfortable pillow?

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your response, Ruth. I received that CI in 7/05. I think it was

the flu I had because generalized, floating, intermittent aches later

developed, and seems the bug " attacked " my CI the hardest and was the most

painful.

[Guest guest]

A technical but interesting article.

Sue.

< Previous Abstract | Next Abstract >

Text sizing:

A

A

A

JCR: Journal of Clinical Rheumatology:

December 2006 - Volume 12 - Issue 6 - pp 277-281

doi: 10.1097/01.rhu.0000249771.97221.36

Original Article

Sleep-Disordered Breathing Among Women With Fibromyalgia Syndrome

Shah, Mansi A. DO; Feinberg, Stanford MD; Krishnan, Eswar MD, MPH

Abstract

Background: In clinical practice, polysomnograms (sleep studies) are seldom ordered for patients with fibromyalgia, although sleep issues dominate the symptom complex. One reason for this is the lack of understanding how information from these studies could aid clinical decisions.

Methods: The authors conducted a chart review of one rheumatologist's community-based practice where polysomnograms were offered routinely to all women who met the American College of Rheumatology criteria for fibromyalgia. Interpretation of these standardized protocol-based polysomnograms was performed by a board-certified neurologist using standard criteria.

Results: Mean age of the study subjects (n = 23) was 45 (standard deviation, 7.8) years. Median body mass index was 27 kg/m2 (interquartile range 20-48). These women had poor sleep with many arousals (median arousal index 23), apnea-hypopneas (median apnea-hypopnea index 22, interquartile range 17-30). Desaturation was common with half the patients having nadir oxygen saturation less than 87%. Restless legs were detected in polysomnograms among many women who clinically denied it (mean leg movement index 5.8).

Conclusions: A large proportion of women with fibromyalgia in a general rheumatology practice had sleep-disordered breathing, which can be detected using sleep polysomnograms. Studies are needed to examine if treatment of the commonly detected sleep apnea will have a beneficial effect on symptoms of fibromyalgia.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this article, Sue, as I used to have dreadful sleep apnea

episodes. Since the sleep apnea stopped my sleeping pattern, and

CFS/Fibro symptoms over the years have improved. Food for thought.

hugs

Carlene

>

>

> A technical but interesting article.

> Sue.

> < Previous Abstract | Next Abstract >

>

> Text sizing:

>

> A

>

> A

>

> A

>

>

>

>

>

>

> JCR: Journal of Clinical Rheumatology:

> December 2006 - Volume 12 - Issue 6 - pp 277-281

> doi: 10.1097/01.rhu.0000249771.97221.36

> Original Article

> Sleep-Disordered Breathing Among Women With Fibromyalgia Syndrome

> Shah, Mansi A. DO; Feinberg, Stanford MD; Krishnan, Eswar MD, MPH

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Abstract

>

>

> Background: In clinical practice, polysomnograms (sleep studies) are

seldom ordered for patients with fibromyalgia, although sleep issues

dominate the symptom complex. One reason for this is the lack of

understanding how information from these studies could aid clinical

decisions.

> Methods: The authors conducted a chart review of one rheumatologist's

community-based practice where polysomnograms were offered routinely to

all women who met the American College of Rheumatology criteria for

fibromyalgia. Interpretation of these standardized protocol-based

polysomnograms was performed by a board-certified neurologist using

standard criteria.

> Results: Mean age of the study subjects (n = 23) was 45 (standard

deviation, 7.8) years. Median body mass index was 27 kg/m2

(interquartile range 20-48). These women had poor sleep with many

arousals (median arousal index 23), apnea-hypopneas (median

apnea-hypopnea index 22, interquartile range 17-30). Desaturation was

common with half the patients having nadir oxygen saturation less than

87%. Restless legs were detected in polysomnograms among many women who

clinically denied it (mean leg movement index 5.8).

> Conclusions: A large proportion of women with fibromyalgia in a

general rheumatology practice had sleep-disordered breathing, which can

be detected using sleep polysomnograms. Studies are needed to examine if

treatment of the commonly detected sleep apnea will have a beneficial

effect on symptoms of fibromyalgia.

>

[Guest guest]

You should not put the pillow under your knee because that prevents the knee

from straightening. My surgeon wanted the pillow under the heel, as that causes

the knee to be straight.

All the best, Joan

________________________________

From: Waspe <mary.waspe@...>

Joint Replacement

Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 7:19:54 AM

Subject: sleeping

My surgeon wouldn't let us put a pillow under the operated knee.

-- Re: 9/16

Is this for a hip or knee replacement? I would not do that for a hip

because of the precautions. I had both knees replaced and could not get on

my side comfortably until about 4 weeks post op. That was using a pillow

between my legs, too. If you put more pillows under your head, it should

make your back more comfortable. You might also try putting a pillow under

your knees. Good luck!

in PA

Bilateral TKR - 7/22/10

Left THR - 7/2007

>

> I am 3 days out of surgery. Can I sleep on my side if I put a pillow

between my legs? I get a headache from sleeping in the same position all

night.

>

> Thanks!

> in TX

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was told not to use a pillow as well - in the beginning. I started to use one

at about 4 weeks post op. My therapist told me that getting a good night's

sleep will aide in healing more than worrying about a smallish pillow under the

knees. It has not seemed to have done much harm since my knees do get straight

pretty easily now at 8 weeks.

> >

> > I am 3 days out of surgery. Can I sleep on my side if I put a pillow

> between my legs? I get a headache from sleeping in the same position all

> night.

> >

> > Thanks!

> > in TX

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

For short periods of time they put a pillow under my knee to relieve it in the

hospital.. but the general advice was to keep it straight. I had no problems

with straightening even though I used pillow under knee sometimes.... but have

still problems with bending. dash

Re: sleeping

You should not put the pillow under your knee because that prevents the knee

from straightening. My surgeon wanted the pillow under the heel, as that causes

the knee to be straight.

All the best, Joan

[Guest guest]

I was sleeping well when I took ldn in the morning. Last night I tried it at

night instead and did not sleep well. I will continue trying it this week at

night and if it does not work I will go back to days. joyce The normal sleep

protochol does not work for those with fibro and chronic fatigue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Again, this is a generalization that I don't think is accurate. I have

fibro and have slept better than ever following LDN, and I've always taken

it at night. Most people with fibro who are taking LDN are sleeping better

than they were. That's part of the healing.

--

>I was sleeping well when I took ldn in the morning. Last night I tried it

>at night instead and did not sleep well. I will continue trying it this

>week at night and if it does not work I will go back to days. joyce The

>normal sleep protochol does not work for those with fibro and chronic

>fatigue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Dr murphree advise 5HTP en if not enough melatonine

for sleeping problem with fibro.

8 videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPGdqpMxU24 & translated=1

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.SPAMfighter has removed 3420 of my spam emails to date.Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!

[Guest guest]

Surely she means for SOME with fibro and chronic fatigue. It may start to look

that way, but once again, it is a product of the skewed reporting. If it is said

often enough, even if it is wrong, it starts to sound like the truth. The truth

is that everybody is different and telling folks what you THINK they will

experience, has the effect of coming true from the placebo effect (good or bad),

if nothing else.

Most people sleep just fine with LDN (at least as well as without it). Some

people have trouble sleeping (with or without LDN). There might be some who are

fabulous sleepers without LDN, who cannot sleep with it (have not heard of any,

but still a possibility.) There are many who are chronically sick and the

thought of losing any MORE sleep is almost overwhelming to them so that they

even hesitate to try it because of all of the on, and on, and on, about sleep

problems from those few with a problem. This is actually a disservice to use

scare tactics instead of reassurances. It is a shame to have people miss out on

the positive effects of an improved immune system, for fear of an occasional,

temporary, and typically manageable side effect.

My thoughts,

Francie

> For all?

> Ingrid

>

> The normal sleep protochol does not work for those with fibro and chronic

fatigue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

I so agree, Francie. In addition, I think sometimes people get so caught

up in the day-to-day management of their illnesses that even positive

change can be difficult to perceive.

So many times people say, I don't experience any difference and my sleep is

disturbed, but then when you ask them about it you find out their

depression is lifting and they are being more productive in every day life

but those positive changes aren't being credited to the LDN or even

particularly noticed as significant change.

--

At 01:06 PM 4/25/2011, you wrote:

>Surely she means for SOME with fibro and chronic fatigue. It may start to

>look that way, but once again, it is a product of the skewed reporting. If

>it is said often enough, even if it is wrong, it starts to sound like the

>truth. The truth is that everybody is different and telling folks what you

>THINK they will experience, has the effect of coming true from the placebo

>effect (good or bad), if nothing else.

>

>Most people sleep just fine with LDN (at least as well as without it).

>Some people have trouble sleeping (with or without LDN). There might be

>some who are fabulous sleepers without LDN, who cannot sleep with it (have

>not heard of any, but still a possibility.) There are many who are

>chronically sick and the thought of losing any MORE sleep is almost

>overwhelming to them so that they even hesitate to try it because of all

>of the on, and on, and on, about sleep problems from those few with a

>problem. This is actually a disservice to use scare tactics instead of

>reassurances. It is a shame to have people miss out on the positive

>effects of an improved immune system, for fear of an occasional,

>temporary, and typically manageable side effect.

>

>My thoughts,

>

>Francie

>

> > For all?

> > Ingrid

>

> >

> > The normal sleep protochol does not work for those with fibro and

> chronic fatigue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

>

>

>------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have CFS and Fibro and have slept better on LDN that before. Now that i was helped by LDN, I have taken the further step of adding melatonin and 5-HTP per Dr. Murphree's sleep protocol. I am having a sleep study next week to see if I am one of the ones who doesn't have sufficient delta sleep. if not, i am prepared to take very small doses of trazodone which does help with delta sleep. I am willing to take 1/4 of the smallest dosage if necessary.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:47 PM, joyce <jamkaye@...> wrote:

 

I was sleeping well when I took ldn in the morning. Last night I tried it at night instead and did not sleep well. I will continue trying it this week at night and if it does not work I will go back to days. joyce The normal sleep protochol does not work for those with fibro and chronic fatigue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

The friend who introduced me to LDN, and who is not on this list, said her sleep

improved tremendously on LDN...that was part of the reason she recommended it to

me.

I just didn't happen to be helped in that way. But it didn't make things worse.

That said, melatonin did not work for me either...at all. 5-HTP helped a

little, but not much. And as I said before, exercise made things worse. But my

sleep study disclosed no serious problems.

I was just a hard case, I guess.

Jaye

>

> >

> >

> > I was sleeping well when I took ldn in the morning. Last night I tried it

> > at night instead and did not sleep well. I will continue trying it this week

> > at night and if it does not work I will go back to days. joyce The normal

> > sleep protochol does not work for those with fibro and chronic

> > fatigue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My sleep is as poor but I feel better. Not fatigued all day.I probably need to adjust my dose or time... I am not taking it between 9 and 11 pm, but instead right before bed, and unfortunately that can be 12:30am or 3 am. :-(

As far as people under-reporting their improvement... I totally believe this. I was giving my husband some, in a small dose, and he said it wasn't doing anything.Yet, it WAS... his mood was better. He didn't require a nap or two during the day to function on the weekends. He was " whistling while he worked " doing his chores, without me looking cross at him for incentive TO do them!

So to him, he didn't notice anything. I sure did. :-)We are waiting on our overseas shipment so we can get him back on it, and at a better dose.On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 6:28 PM, <jprocure@...> wrote:

The friend who introduced me to LDN, and who is not on this list, said her sleep improved tremendously on LDN...that was part of the reason she recommended it to me.

I just didn't happen to be helped in that way.  But it didn't make things worse.

That said, melatonin did not work for me either...at all.  5-HTP helped a little, but not much.  And as I said before, exercise made things worse.  But my sleep study disclosed no serious problems.

I was just a hard case, I guess.

Jaye

>

> >

> >

> > I was sleeping well when I took ldn in the morning. Last night I tried it

> > at night instead and did not sleep well. I will continue trying it this week

> > at night and if it does not work I will go back to days. joyce The normal

> > sleep protochol does not work for those with fibro and chronic

> > fatigue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> >

> >

> >

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I have had no problems with sleep on LDN until last night when I was up til 5 am. The difference was that I didn't take it and go right to bed -- I took it and stayed up an hour and a half. I get a bit groggy abt 20 mins after I take it and usually fall right asleep. But last night I had to study and I think it affected me because I was already into the endorphin block by the time I went to bed. Just could not settle. On the other hand, I will watch myself and see if maybe it wasn't my timing, but instead that my synthroid is now too high on LDN. A learning process.

 

Niki

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Toni Marie Lombardo <bellbaby@...> wrote:

 

My sleep is as poor but I feel better. Not fatigued all day.I probably need to adjust my dose or time... I am not taking it between 9 and 11 pm, but instead right before bed, and unfortunately that can be 12:30am or 3 am. :-(

As far as people under-reporting their improvement... I totally believe this. I was giving my husband some, in a small dose, and he said it wasn't doing anything.Yet, it WAS... his mood was better. He didn't require a nap or two during the day to function on the weekends. He was " whistling while he worked " doing his chores, without me looking cross at him for incentive TO do them!

So to him, he didn't notice anything. I sure did. :-)We are waiting on our overseas shipment so we can get him back on it, and at a better dose.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 6:28 PM, <jprocure@...> wrote:

 

[Guest guest]

I do not believe you can attribute a single night of poor sleep to LDN when you shifted your normal nighttime routine.  That is more likely to blame than LDN.  The body has 2 points in the day it naturally wants to " go to sleep " at night and in the afternoon.  Some cultures take an afternoon nap during this time.  The afternoon one is less strong and easier to overcome and most of us do most of the time but most of us also know when we hit that wall in the afternoon - it often causes people to get a cup of coffee, a soda or a snack to " stay awake. "  The night time one is stronger but if you push past it (like to study) you mess with that cycle and your body gets a bit confused.  It is more likely you had trouble falling asleep because you pushed past your body's normal " go to sleep " time - and perhaps were still ruminating on whatever it was you pushed yourself to stay up late to study.  There are fancy names for all this - just breaking it down to basic concepts.

JaxiOn Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Gagnon <gagnonmonique314@...> wrote:

I have had no problems with sleep on LDN until last night when I was up til 5 am. The difference was that I didn't take it and go right to bed -- I took it and stayed up an hour and a half. I get a bit groggy abt 20 mins after I take it and usually fall right asleep. But last night I had to study and I think it affected me because I was already into the endorphin block by the time I went to bed. Just could not settle. On the other hand, I will watch myself and see if maybe it wasn't my timing, but instead that my synthroid is now too high on LDN. A learning process.

 

Niki

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Toni Marie Lombardo <bellbaby@...> wrote:

 

My sleep is as poor but I feel better. Not fatigued all day.I probably need to adjust my dose or time... I am not taking it between 9 and 11 pm, but instead right before bed, and unfortunately that can be 12:30am or 3 am. :-(

As far as people under-reporting their improvement... I totally believe this. I was giving my husband some, in a small dose, and he said it wasn't doing anything.Yet, it WAS... his mood was better. He didn't require a nap or two during the day to function on the weekends. He was " whistling while he worked " doing his chores, without me looking cross at him for incentive TO do them!

So to him, he didn't notice anything. I sure did. :-)We are waiting on our overseas shipment so we can get him back on it, and at a better dose.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 6:28 PM, <jprocure@...> wrote:

 

[Guest guest]

Maybe, but who knows. As I mentioned, I'm not positive it was the LDN...it could be my synthroid as well. But it is definitely not usual for me to stay up until 5am staring at the ceiling...I pull late study nights all the time (til 1am or so), every week or two, but do not typically have any problem falling asleep. And as far as what I was studying, chemistry would put ANYONE to sleep! lol!!    Thanks, Niki

 

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 7:45 PM, jaxi <jaxi.schulz@...> wrote:

I do not believe you can attribute a single night of poor sleep to LDN when you shifted your normal nighttime routine.  That is more likely to blame than LDN.  The body has 2 points in the day it naturally wants to " go to sleep " at night and in the afternoon.  Some cultures take an afternoon nap during this time.  The afternoon one is less strong and easier to overcome and most of us do most of the time but most of us also know when we hit that wall in the afternoon - it often causes people to get a cup of coffee, a soda or a snack to " stay awake. "  The night time one is stronger but if you push past it (like to study) you mess with that cycle and your body gets a bit confused.  It is more likely you had trouble falling asleep because you pushed past your body's normal " go to sleep " time - and perhaps were still ruminating on whatever it was you pushed yourself to stay up late to study.  There are fancy names for all this - just breaking it down to basic concepts.

Jaxi

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Gagnon <gagnonmonique314@...> wrote:

I have had no problems with sleep on LDN until last night when I was up til 5 am. The difference was that I didn't take it and go right to bed -- I took it and stayed up an hour and a half. I get a bit groggy abt 20 mins after I take it and usually fall right asleep. But last night I had to study and I think it affected me because I was already into the endorphin block by the time I went to bed. Just could not settle. On the other hand, I will watch myself and see if maybe it wasn't my timing, but instead that my synthroid is now too high on LDN. A learning process.

 

Niki

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Toni Marie Lombardo <bellbaby@...> wrote:

 

My sleep is as poor but I feel better. Not fatigued all day.I probably need to adjust my dose or time... I am not taking it between 9 and 11 pm, but instead right before bed, and unfortunately that can be 12:30am or 3 am. :-(

As far as people under-reporting their improvement... I totally believe this. I was giving my husband some, in a small dose, and he said it wasn't doing anything.Yet, it WAS... his mood was better. He didn't require a nap or two during the day to function on the weekends. He was " whistling while he worked " doing his chores, without me looking cross at him for incentive TO do them!

So to him, he didn't notice anything. I sure did. :-)We are waiting on our overseas shipment so we can get him back on it, and at a better dose.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 6:28 PM, <jprocure@...> wrote:

 

-- R. Gagnon87 Westbrook Rd.RR WhatelySouth Deerfield MA 01373413-325-7448

[Guest guest]

I haven't had experience with sleepiness (ha unfortunately) but I do know that

their tiny nasal passages can contribute to sleep apnea - might be something to

check into tho.

Dawn

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

sleeping

Anyone notice that their downs child is sleepy alot? I read that some do not

get the rem sleep that the body needs. Is there someone who knows more about

this topic?

[Guest guest]

Have you had your child's thyroid tested this year? Sam started taking naps

again and getting sleepy very early and his thyroid was low. THere is also a

risk of sleep apnea (60% ) with out kids.

On Aug 17, 2011, at 11:57 AM, kinde1 wrote:

> Anyone notice that their downs child is sleepy alot? I read that some do not

get the rem sleep that the body needs. Is there someone who knows more about

this topic?

>

>

[Guest guest]

There has been some research indicating that people with ds do not sleep as

soundly as others-something to do with sleep cycle not being quite on target

so the deep sleep phase is shorter or doesn't kick in. Sleep apnea was also

identified as a contributing factor for many of them. The article was if I'm

remembering out of Sue Buckley's site.

Sleeping too much can also indicate impending illness for some children, or

can indicate that they aren't being engaged/ motivated in an environment, or

that they are depressed. Kind of depends on health status and age and

circumstances.

Judi

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf

Of Dawn

Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 3:21 PM

kinde1;

Subject: Re: sleeping

I haven't had experience with sleepiness (ha unfortunately) but I do know

that their tiny nasal passages can contribute to sleep apnea - might be

something to check into tho.

Dawn

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

sleeping

Anyone notice that their downs child is sleepy alot? I read that some do not

get the rem sleep that the body needs. Is there someone who knows more about

this topic?