Re: Fatty Livers

[Guest guest]

Be very, very careful about use of herbs. Do your research, checking specifically for side effects and any record of liver damage. Occasionally, herbs are implicated in liver failure, and in the onset of autoimmune hepatitis, another autoimmune disorder. This can happen with excessive use of some vitamins, too.

Malabsorption of fats is a classic symptom of CD.

H.

In a message dated 2/17/09 9:21:53 PM, beagarth@... writes:

That's true. However in my experience it seems that taking liver detoxing herbs helps with living with celiac. My theory is that since the villi  have been damaged undigested proteins go into the blood stream. This in turn, besides creating a host of allergic like reactions and swelling, also creates toxins which the liver tries its best to deal with. It is the liver's job to detoxify the blood. However it gets overloaded  which in turn slows down intestinal digestion due to perhaps not enough bile being released for some people with celiac--and perhaps for others its too much. In any case its not in balance and all these toxins are hard on the liver and  thus often times spills over to the kidneys and skin.

Given all this, it may be that for some it might lead to a fatty liver too. A freind of mine for instance who also has celiac does have difficulty digesting fats. He is better now that he is on diet, but pre his gluten free diet, it was a real problem.

Bea

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[Guest guest]

And some of those herbs have been quite harmful (insert a smile icon here; I haven't the patience to do so.) Think of belladonna, for example. Or kava, which is a staple in some Pacific Island societies, but which has been implicated in several cases of liver failure in Switzerland.

All I'm saying is -- be very careful. Don't assume that natural means harmless. Research thoroughly before taking any herb. Don't take anyone's word that a particular herb is safe, especially if you have any history of liver disease. Check for yourself.

H.

In a message dated 2/17/09 10:30:33 PM, beagarth@... writes:

Herbs have been used by humans after all for thousands of years.

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[Guest guest]

Celiac disease is not a metabolic disorder (it's an autoimmune disease), and fatty livers are typically caused by an error in metabolism; i.e. by problems with the breaking down of fatty acids in the liver.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of lmontegna@...Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:02 PM Subject: [ ] Fatty Livers

Can celiac also be responsible for a fatty liver?

[Guest guest]

That's true. However in my experience it seems that taking liver detoxing herbs helps with living with celiac. My theory is that since the villi have been damaged undigested proteins go into the blood stream. This in turn, besides creating a host of allergic like reactions and swelling, also creates toxins which the liver tries its best to deal with. It is the liver's job to detoxify the blood. However it gets overloaded which in turn slows down intestinal digestion due to perhaps not enough bile being released for some people with celiac--and perhaps for others its too much. In any case its not in balance and all these toxins are hard on the liver and thus often times spills over to the kidneys and skin. Given all this, it may be that for some it might lead to a fatty liver too. A freind of mine for instance who also has celiac does

have difficulty digesting fats. He is better now that he is on diet, but pre his gluten free diet, it was a real problem.BeaFrom: D Darcy <ddarcy@...>Subject: RE: [ ] Fatty Livers Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 8:54 PM

Celiac disease is not a metabolic disorder (it's an autoimmune disease), and fatty livers are typically caused by an error in metabolism; i.e. by problems with the breaking down of fatty acids in the liver.

From: [mailto:celiacbayar eagroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of lmontegna@sbcglobal .netSent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:02 PM Subject: [ ] Fatty Livers

Can celiac also be responsible for a fatty liver?

[Guest guest]

I agree, one has to be careful with herbs. Check to make sure the ones you take are not going to stimulate your immune system for instance since with celiac we already have an overactive immune system. However I don't think that dandelion root or milk thistle for instance are considered dangerous or even yellow dock or Oregon grape root taken in moderation (plus avoid tinctures due to the alcohol!) assuming you don't have D and they agree with you. It is true that some people are affected detrimentally by herbs and shouldn't take them. However most people don't have that problem. Herbs have been used by humans after all for thousands of years.My understanding from what I have read is that one should never take liver detoxing herbs for more than ten days at a time, with another week in between before taking more, if more are needed. I

often limit them to a week or even just one to three days. Its often a good idea to alternate herbs. No matter what, I agree that it is always wise to be both informed and cautious whether the things you take to help your health are herbs or from the pharmacy or just plain old food as many of us are discovering.BeaFrom: flatcat9@... <flatcat9@...>Subject: Re: [ ] Fatty Livers Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:48 PM

Be very, very careful about use of herbs. Do your research, checking specifically for side effects and any record of liver damage. Occasionally, herbs are implicated in liver failure, and in the onset of autoimmune hepatitis, another autoimmune disorder. This can happen with excessive use of some vitamins, too.

Malabsorption of fats is a classic symptom of CD.

H.

In a message dated 2/17/09 9:21:53 PM, beagarth (DOT) com writes:

That's true. However in my experience it seems that taking liver detoxing herbs helps with living with celiac. My theory is that since the villi have been damaged undigested proteins go into the blood stream. This in turn, besides creating a host of allergic like reactions and swelling, also creates toxins which the liver tries its best to deal with. It is the liver's job to detoxify the blood. However it gets overloaded which in turn slows down intestinal digestion due to perhaps not enough bile being released for some people with celiac--and perhaps for others its too much. In any case its not in balance and all these toxins are hard on the liver and thus often times spills over to the kidneys and skin.

Given all this, it may be that for some it might lead to a fatty liver too. A freind of mine for instance who also has celiac does have difficulty digesting fats. He is better now that he is on diet, but pre his gluten free diet, it was a real problem.

Bea

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[Guest guest]

I would hope one would never think of Kava Kava or belladonna as liver cleansing herbs...Both are clearly toxic to the liver.Nevertheless I do agree that just because something is natural doesn't mean it can do no harm.However I think that if one does do one's homework it could well be beneficial to use specific non-toxic herbs that don't stimulate the immune system but instead do help the liver do its job better if used judiciously.Meanwhile the main gist of what I was trying to say is that celiac could (and in my opnion often does) in some ways help create a situation where one's liver is stressed due to generalized toxicity that all those undigested proteins circulating in the blood stream create (due to gluten having damaged the villi thus letting the undigested proteins pass

through the intestinal wall too easily). This then in some people could help precipitate a fatty liver easier than say in someone who didn't have celiac, if all things were otherwise equal, although certainly it wouldn't be the only factor.BeaFrom: flatcat9@... <flatcat9@...>Subject: Re: [ ] Fatty Livers Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:45 PM

And some of those herbs have been quite harmful (insert a smile icon here; I haven't the patience to do so.) Think of belladonna, for example. Or kava, which is a staple in some Pacific Island societies, but which has been implicated in several cases of liver failure in Switzerland.

All I'm saying is -- be very careful. Don't assume that natural means harmless. Research thoroughly before taking any herb. Don't take anyone's word that a particular herb is safe, especially if you have any history of liver disease. Check for yourself.

H.

In a message dated 2/17/09 10:30:33 PM, beagarth (DOT) com writes:

Herbs have been used by humans after all for thousands of years.

************ **You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals. aol.com/? ncid=emlcntuslov e00000002)

[Guest guest]

I wouldn't worry about prescribed dosages of vitamins. People sometimes get into trouble taking mega-doses of vitamins that damage the liver in excessive amounts. Prescribed dosages wouldn't come anywhere close to that. Difficulties arrive when someone misreads a label or thinks that if one capsule is good, 20 would be better. Or, as happened a few years ago, an "herbal" energy bar was found to contain far, far more of a vitamin than was revealed on the label. Really bad things happened as a result. I heard from a mother and daughter who decided to diet together using this brand's weight loss plan; their livers were very seriously damaged as a result of excessive vitamin intake.

I'm being vague because I don't have time to look up specifics, and I don't want to rely on my memory for something as important as this.

H.

In a message dated 2/18/09 7:50:14 AM, galliano.gang@... writes:

I agree with you on the herbs. Are you aware of which vitamins, specifically? My doctor has prescribed high doses of several.

Lynn

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[Guest guest]

I agree with you on the herbs. Are you aware of which vitamins, specifically? My doctor has prescribed high doses of several.LynnOn Feb 17, 2009, at 9:48 PM, flatcat9@... wrote:Be very, very careful about use of herbs. Do your research, checking specifically for side effects and any record of liver damage. Occasionally, herbs are implicated in liver failure, and in the onset of autoimmune hepatitis, another autoimmune disorder. This can happen with excessive use of some vitamins, too.Malabsorption of fats is a classic symptom of CD.H.In a message dated 2/17/09 9:21:53 PM, beagarth writes:That's true. However in my experience it seems that taking liver detoxing herbs helps with living with celiac. My theory is that since the villi  have been damaged undigested proteins go into the blood stream. This in turn, besides creating a host of allergic like reactions and swelling, also creates toxins which the liver tries its best to deal with. It is the liver's job to detoxify the blood. However it gets overloaded  which in turn slows down intestinal digestion due to perhaps not enough bile being released for some people with celiac--and perhaps for others its too much. In any case its not in balance and all these toxins are hard on the liver and  thus often times spills over to the kidneys and skin.Given all this, it may be that for some it might lead to a fatty liver too. A freind of mine for instance who also has celiac does have difficulty digesting fats. He is better now that he is on diet, but pre his gluten free diet, it was a real problem.Bea**************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002)

[Guest guest]

I would be very careful of taking too much vitamin A or even D in real excess, since either one can be poisonous if one takes too much. However 1000 IU's of D now seems to be an agreed upon amount rather than just 400 IU's now that new studies are out on it. I suggest reading up on the general limits of vitamins for more info., esp. on vit. A of which exact limit I have forgotten for now. Vitamin E I have heard should generally be limited to 400 IU's a day. Even Vitamin C can be a problem if in true excess. Actually any vitamin taken in excess could be a problem unless you have a real need for it and it is prescribed. The best idea I think is to figure out what a middle ground is and go from there. With celiac we do tend to need to take vitamins, however, especially at first due to general malabsorption. That plus minerals. Usually digestive

enzymes are also needed to help out the process. In time as we heal we tend to not need to take as much. I still do take some vitamin C, D, A, E and co-enzyme B complex with calcium and magnesium citrate plus minerals...plus acidophilus. I have had particular difficulty absorbing both the minerals and B complex. I think this is common with celiac. But even there I don't and wouldn't suggest take an excessive amount. Taking a little apple cider vinegar with my minerals seems to help with the absorption by the way...And for me the co-enzyme B's are much easier to absorb (taken on an empty stomach) than the regular non co-enzyme ones.Just remember to make sure whatever supplements you take are truly gf!BeaPS--is this still about fatty livers?From: Galliano Gang <galliano.gang@...>Subject: Re: [ ] Fatty Livers Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 7:55 AM

I agree with you on the herbs. Are you aware of which vitamins, specifically? My doctor has prescribed high doses of several.Lynn