Guest guest Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Does Canada really call for zero ppm in GF products? H. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Herman <jhinsf@...> < > Cc: < > < > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:41 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Can someone please point out research which discusses a commercially available gluten test which tests to the level of zero ppm? I have never seen this. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:00 AM, "Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan" <lillythdenaghykeoghcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: See, everyone says there is no way to make it zero ppm. I think that is TOTAL BS. That is Canada’s standard, and they are really great place to live with celiac. So whenever people say it can’t be done – it IS done. It is sheer laziness on the part of manufacturers… Oh, and I added in the comments section that I thought GF should only be ZERO ppm. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Darcy Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:10 AM Subject: RE: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I agree with both of you – I chose “Gluten-Free†but what I want that to mean is that it does not contain gluten (below a certain very low level such as 20 ppm – they will never say absolutely none) and is also made in a safe manner. There is a comment section at the end where this can be written in. Unfortunately the survey doesn’t offer that level of distinction at all (what the words actually mean) and doesn’t address cross-contamination from manufacturing practices very well. I do agree that it’s great to see them doing this survey! Thanks, From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Harper Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I believe that Gluten-Free is the more restrictive, all-inclusive statement. H. when asked which of the following labels would lead me to buy the product, I checked the "made in a gluten free facility" over "no gluten ingredients" and "gluten free," -----Original Message----- From: TrVerb@... Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2010 8:48 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I think you must have only thought you checked the "I follow a gluten free diet" box, because that's what I did and I did the whole survey - they are obviously only interested in people who are either following it for themselves or preparing food for someone who is. I am guessing you checked the "I don't follow a gf diet" by mistake. I am surprised by the negative response to this survey. I am thrilled that they are asking me these questions, which are clearly designed to ascertain what kind of labeling laws they need to consider - we are being given the opportunity to encourage the government to make it a law that labels need to be as specific as possible (when asked which of the following labels would lead me to buy the product, I checked the "made in a gluten free facility" over "no gluten ingredients" and "gluten free," which I would hope would encourage whoever reads this survey to understand the issue goes beyond the actual ingredients to where the product is processed). It sounds to me like some of us are offended that they are asking "how much do we really understand about celiac" and how smart or stupid or educated we are. But they do need to know how much more education they need to provide. Look, I have friends who have diagnosed celiac who are convinced spelt is fine and "a little" wheat now and then is fine, too, and who don't ever think about cross contamination issues. I don't want those people driving the discussion and influencing the law! So PLEASE, everybody do this survey and take the opportunity at the end to stress that we need to know about EVERY gluten ingredient, not just wheat, and EVERY cross contamination issue... Tristan -----Original Message----- From: <kristin_boston > Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2010 8:38 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Pam, What a strange "survey"! I answered the first few questions, until the diagnosis question and the "do you follow a gluten-free diet" question. As soon as I checked the box that said that I followed a gluten-free diet, it told me I did not qualify for the survey! What kind of survey about gluten labeling disqualifies people who are on a gluten free diet? The Celiac Disease Foundation is supporting this? Best, From: Pam Newbury <pknewburyearthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 11:57:18 PM Subject: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Below is the information from the FDA and the link to the survey (this is a reposting from my previous post today). My understanding is that their survey is what they refer to as a “research studyâ€. If you click on the link below it will take you to the survey. Participation just means completing the survey. Pam <image001.jpg> Celiac Disease Foundation is assisting the FDA in seeking Participants for a Research Study on Gluten-Free Claims on Food Labels and is requesting your assistance. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is seeking adults diagnosed with celiac disease or gluten-intolerance or caregivers to such individuals to participate in a research study on their grocery shopping habits. Participants will be asked to take an Internet survey, which will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The survey is available at www.synovate. net/forgluten Please contact Kosa at kkosa@... or 1-800-334-8571, extension 23901, if you have any questions about the study. To request a paper copy of the survey, please call 1-877-4GLUTN1. From: [mailto:celiacbayar eagroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Ahroon Yoch Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:36 PM @ groups. com Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study How can we get to be a part of the study? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 14, 2010, at 3:15 PM, "Pam Newbury" <pknewbury@earthlink .net> wrote: They want to know what consumers think about different ways of labeling foods gluten-free. I think they want to know what is confusing and what people will trust when it comes to how the gluten-free claim is presented on a label. I don’t like how they went about it, but I’m trying to be glad they are at least asking us what we think. I wrote a lot in the comments section at the end…. Pam _ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 no, Canada calls for 20 ppm and Europe sets the standard at 200 ppm. http://www.celiac.com/categories/Gluten%252dFree/ -----Original Message----- From: Harper <flatcat9@...> Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 9:12 am Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? Does Canada really call for zero ppm in GF products? H. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Herman <jhinsfgmail> < > Cc: < > < > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:41 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Can someone please point out research which discusses a commercially available gluten test which tests to the level of zero ppm? I have never seen this. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:00 AM, "Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan" <lillythdenaghykeoghcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: See, everyone says there is no way to make it zero ppm. I think that is TOTAL BS. That is Canada’s standard, and they are really great place to live with celiac. So whenever people say it can’t be done – it IS done. It is sheer laziness on the part of manufacturers… Oh, and I added in the comments section that I thought GF should only be ZERO ppm. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Darcy Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:10 AM Subject: RE: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I agree with both of you – I chose “Gluten-Free†but what I want that to mean is that it does not contain gluten (below a certain very low level such as 20 ppm – they will never say absolutely none) and is also made in a safe manner. There is a comment section at the end where this can be written in. Unfortunately the survey doesn’t offer that level of distinction at all (what the words actually mean) and doesn’t address cross-contamination from manufacturing practices very well. I do agree that it’s great to see them doing this survey! Thanks, From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Harper Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I believe that Gluten-Free is the more restrictive, all-inclusive statement. H. when asked which of the following labels would lead me to buy the product, I checked the "made in a gluten free facility" over "no gluten ingredients" and "gluten free," -----Original Message----- From: TrVerb@... Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2010 8:48 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I think you must have only thought you checked the "I follow a gluten free diet" box, because that's what I did and I did the whole survey - they are obviously only interested in people who are either following it for themselves or preparing food for someone who is. I am guessing you checked the "I don't follow a gf diet" by mistake. I am surprised by the negative response to this survey. I am thrilled that they are asking me these questions, which are clearly designed to ascertain what kind of labeling laws they need to consider - we are being given the opportunity to encourage the government to make it a law that labels need to be as specific as possible (when asked which of the following labels would lead me to buy the product, I checked the "made in a gluten free facility" over "no gluten ingredients" and "gluten free," which I would hope would encourage whoever reads this survey to understand the issue goes beyond the actual ingredients to where the product is processed). It sounds to me like some of us are offended that they are asking "how much do we really understand about celiac" and how smart or stupid or educated we are. But they do need to know how much more education they need to provide. Look, I have friends who have diagnosed celiac who are convinced spelt is fine and "a little" wheat now and then is fine, too, and who don't ever think about cross contamination issues. I don't want those people driving the discussion and influencing the law! So PLEASE, everybody do this survey and take the opportunity at the end to stress that we need to know about EVERY gluten ingredient, not just wheat, and EVERY cross contamination issue... Tristan -----Original Message----- From: <kristin_boston > Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2010 8:38 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Pam, What a strange "survey"! I answered the first few questions, until the diagnosis question and the "do you follow a gluten-free diet" question. As soon as I checked the box that said that I followed a gluten-free diet, it told me I did not qualify for the survey! What kind of survey about gluten labeling disqualifies people who are on a gluten free diet? The Celiac Disease Foundation is supporting this? Best, From: Pam Newbury <pknewburyearthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 11:57:18 PM Subject: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Below is the information from the FDA and the link to the survey (this is a reposting from my previous post today). My understanding is that their survey is what they refer to as a “research studyâ€. If you click on the link below it will take you to the survey. Participation just means completing the survey. Pam <image001.jpg> Celiac Disease Foundation is assisting the FDA in seeking Participants for a Research Study on Gluten-Free Claims on Food Labels and is requesting your assistance. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is seeking adults diagnosed with celiac disease or gluten-intolerance or caregivers to such individuals to participate in a research study on their grocery shopping habits. Participants will be asked to take an Internet survey, which will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The survey is available at www.synovate. net/forgluten Please contact Kosa at kkosa@... or 1-800-334-8571, extension 23901, if you have any questions about the study. To request a paper copy of the survey, please call 1-877-4GLUTN1. From: [mailto:celiacbayar eagroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Ahroon Yoch Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:36 PM @ groups. com Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study How can we get to be a part of the study? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 14, 2010, at 3:15 PM, "Pam Newbury" <pknewbury@earthlink .net> wrote: They want to know what consumers think about different ways of labeling foods gluten-free. I think they want to know what is confusing and what people will trust when it comes to how the gluten-free claim is presented on a label. I don’t like how they went about it, but I’m trying to be glad they are at least asking us what we think. I wrote a lot in the comments section at the end…. Pam _ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 My guess is that the survey seeks to determine what we believe the terms mean, and whether we have any knowledge of cross-contamination. The questions may not be intended to give the information they seem to ask for. I can't remember the content well enough to give examples. Again, this is just my reading of it, a guess on my part. H. " . . . the survey doesn’t offer that level of distinction at all (what the words actually mean) and doesn’t address cross-contamination from manufacturing practices very well. . . . " -----Original Message----- From: TrVerb@... Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 9:15 am Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? no, Canada calls for 20 ppm and Europe sets the standard at 200 ppm. http://www.celiac.com/categories/Gluten%252dFree/ -----Original Message----- From: Harper <flatcat9aol> Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 9:12 am Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? Does Canada really call for zero ppm in GF products? H. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Herman <jhinsfgmail> < > Cc: < > < > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:41 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Can someone please point out research which discusses a commercially available gluten test which tests to the level of zero ppm? I have never seen this. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:00 AM, "Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan" <lillythdenaghykeoghcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: See, everyone says there is no way to make it zero ppm. I think that is TOTAL BS. That is Canada’s standard, and they are really great place to live with celiac. So whenever people say it can’t be done – it IS done. It is sheer laziness on the part of manufacturers… Oh, and I added in the comments section that I thought GF should only be ZERO ppm. What a strange "survey"! I answered the first few questions, until the diagnosis question and the "do you follow a gluten-free diet" question. As soon as I checked the box that said that I followed a gluten-free diet, it told me I did not qualify for the survey! What kind of survey about gluten labeling disqualifies people who are on a gluten free diet? The Celiac Disease Foundation is supporting this? Best, ___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (30) Recent Activity: New Members 5 Visit Your Group MARKETPLACE Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Toolbar now. Welcome to Mom Connection! Share stories, news and more with moms like you. Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests. Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Yes. They do. I have spoken to manufacturers who have told me they test their products to Canadian standards, which are zero ppm. Canada will not let your product into the country with a GF label on it unless it tests at zero ppm. At least, this was the case a few years aog. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Harper Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? Does Canada really call for zero ppm in GF products? H. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Herman <jhinsfgmail> < > Cc: < > < > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:41 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Can someone please point out research which discusses a commercially available gluten test which tests to the level of zero ppm? I have never seen this. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:00 AM, " Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan " <lillythdenaghykeoghcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: See, everyone says there is no way to make it zero ppm. I think that is TOTAL BS. That is Canada’s standard, and they are really great place to live with celiac. So whenever people say it can’t be done – it IS done. It is sheer laziness on the part of manufacturers… Oh, and I added in the comments section that I thought GF should only be ZERO ppm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 I was told by a manufacturer that it was zero ppm. He said that they tested to zero ppm. So, even if it isn’t Canadian standard, there MUST be a test for it if this guy was dong it… From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of TrVerb@... Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? no, Canada calls for 20 ppm and Europe sets the standard at 200 ppm. http://www.celiac.com/categories/Gluten%252dFree/ -----Original Message----- From: Harper <flatcat9aol> Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 9:12 am Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? Does Canada really call for zero ppm in GF products? H. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Herman <jhinsfgmail> < > Cc: < > < > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:41 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Can someone please point out research which discusses a commercially available gluten test which tests to the level of zero ppm? I have never seen this. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:00 AM, " Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan " <lillythdenaghykeoghcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: See, everyone says there is no way to make it zero ppm. I think that is TOTAL BS. That is Canada’s standard, and they are really great place to live with celiac. So whenever people say it can’t be done – it IS done. It is sheer laziness on the part of manufacturers… Oh, and I added in the comments section that I thought GF should only be ZERO ppm. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Darcy Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:10 AM Subject: RE: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I agree with both of you – I chose “Gluten-Free” but what I want that to mean is that it does not contain gluten (below a certain very low level such as 20 ppm – they will never say absolutely none) and is also made in a safe manner. There is a comment section at the end where this can be written in. Unfortunately the survey doesn’t offer that level of distinction at all (what the words actually mean) and doesn’t address cross-contamination from manufacturing practices very well. I do agree that it’s great to see them doing this survey! Thanks, From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Harper Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I believe that Gluten-Free is the more restrictive, all-inclusive statement. H. when asked which of the following labels would lead me to buy the product, I checked the " made in a gluten free facility " over " no gluten ingredients " and " gluten free, " -----Original Message----- From: TrVerb@... Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2010 8:48 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) I think you must have only thought you checked the " I follow a gluten free diet " box, because that's what I did and I did the whole survey - they are obviously only interested in people who are either following it for themselves or preparing food for someone who is. I am guessing you checked the " I don't follow a gf diet " by mistake. I am surprised by the negative response to this survey. I am thrilled that they are asking me these questions, which are clearly designed to ascertain what kind of labeling laws they need to consider - we are being given the opportunity to encourage the government to make it a law that labels need to be as specific as possible (when asked which of the following labels would lead me to buy the product, I checked the " made in a gluten free facility " over " no gluten ingredients " and " gluten free, " which I would hope would encourage whoever reads this survey to understand the issue goes beyond the actual ingredients to where the product is processed). It sounds to me like some of us are offended that they are asking " how much do we really understand about celiac " and how smart or stupid or educated we are. But they do need to know how much more education they need to provide. Look, I have friends who have diagnosed celiac who are convinced spelt is fine and " a little " wheat now and then is fine, too, and who don't ever think about cross contamination issues. I don't want those people driving the discussion and influencing the law! So PLEASE, everybody do this survey and take the opportunity at the end to stress that we need to know about EVERY gluten ingredient, not just wheat, and EVERY cross contamination issue... Tristan -----Original Message----- From: <kristin_boston > Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2010 8:38 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Pam, What a strange " survey " ! I answered the first few questions, until the diagnosis question and the " do you follow a gluten-free diet " question. As soon as I checked the box that said that I followed a gluten-free diet, it told me I did not qualify for the survey! What kind of survey about gluten labeling disqualifies people who are on a gluten free diet? The Celiac Disease Foundation is supporting this? Best, From: Pam Newbury <pknewburyearthlink (DOT) net> Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 11:57:18 PM Subject: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Below is the information from the FDA and the link to the survey (this is a reposting from my previous post today). My understanding is that their survey is what they refer to as a “research study”. If you click on the link below it will take you to the survey. Participation just means completing the survey. Pam <image001.jpg> Celiac Disease Foundation is assisting the FDA in seeking Participants for a Research Study on Gluten-Free Claims on Food Labels and is requesting your assistance. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is seeking adults diagnosed with celiac disease or gluten-intolerance or caregivers to such individuals to participate in a research study on their grocery shopping habits. Participants will be asked to take an Internet survey, which will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The survey is available at www.synovate. net/forgluten Please contact Kosa at kkosa@... or 1-800-334-8571, extension 23901, if you have any questions about the study. To request a paper copy of the survey, please call 1-877-4GLUTN1. From: [mailto:celiacbayar eagroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Ahroon Yoch Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:36 PM @ groups. com Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study How can we get to be a part of the study? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 14, 2010, at 3:15 PM, " Pam Newbury " <pknewbury@earthlink .net> wrote: They want to know what consumers think about different ways of labeling foods gluten-free. I think they want to know what is confusing and what people will trust when it comes to how the gluten-free claim is presented on a label. I don’t like how they went about it, but I’m trying to be glad they are at least asking us what we think. I wrote a lot in the comments section at the end…. Pam _ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2010 Report Share Posted April 17, 2010 Perhaps the manufacturer was misinformed about Canada’s regulations, but he was *very* clear on his testing having been done at ZERO ppm, rather than 20. Who knows, perhaps he was misinformed all around, or using some other way of testing. I don’t know. But when I spoke with him, he kept saying “zero parts per million”… From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam Newbury Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 6:03 PM Subject: [ ] Zero ppm? Lillyth, I can only assume your manufacturer was using a bit of hyperbole or didn’t consider the difference between zero and 20 ppm significant. When I hear conflicting opinions I always try to find a primary source. Here is the information closest to a primary source that I could find on this subject. Here is the actual regulation from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. You will note it makes no actual mention of “parts per million.” 9.9.4 Gluten-Free Foods [b.24.018, B.24.019] A food is not permitted to be labelled, packaged, sold or advertised in a manner likely to create an impression that it is " gluten-free " unless it does not contain wheat, including spelt and kamut, or oats, barley, rye, triticale or any part thereof. For information detailing how they actually test foods labeled gluten-free, I found this on the Health Canada web site: Tolerance to gluten varies among individuals with CD and there are limited clinical scientific data on a threshold for the amount of gluten required to initiate or maintain an immunological reaction in CD patients. Therefore, there is no clear consensus on a safe gluten threshold level. Currently, as per section B.24.018 of the Food and Drug Regulations (Government of Canada 2009), a food cannot be labelled as " gluten-free " if it contains wheat, including spelt and kamut, or oats, barley, rye or triticale or any part thereof. For compliance purposes, for food products labelled as " gluten-free " , Health Canada uses a maximum limit of 20 ppm. Based on current scientific evidence, this generally represents a maximum level which can be used to interpret Section B.24.018 of the Food and Drug Regulations where a food is prepared under good manufacturing conditions aimed at achieving the lowest possible levels of gluten resulting from cross-contamination. This action level is consistent with the Standard for Foods for Special Dietary Use for Persons Intolerant to Gluten (CODEX STAN 118 - 1979) established by Codex Alimentarius (Codex 2008) and is subject to periodic review as new data become available regarding emerging analytical techniques and a possible gluten threshold. This maximum limit will be applied to " gluten-free " natural health products which may contain gluten as a contaminant. (Health Canada is a federal agency in Canada charged with keeping Canadians healthy.) I believe I’ve posted this link before, but since it gives a good presentation of the differing opinions on the meaning of “Gluten-Free” so I’m posting the link again. http://www.celiactoday.com/Community/Opinions_Differ_as_US_FDA_Prepares_To_Define_What_‘GlutenFree’_Means The lowest test I have heard of detects gluten at 3 ppm. I don’t know why they don’t use this test routinely or why the FDA doesn’t use 3ppm as a standard instead of 20. Maybe it is expensive or hard to administer. Or maybe most manufacturers would just be very unlikely to be able to meet this standard. At this point, I am not aware of any test that will detect anything less than 3 ppm gluten. Pam From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Zero ppm? Yes. They do. I have spoken to manufacturers who have told me they test their products to Canadian standards, which are zero ppm. Canada will not let your product into the country with a GF label on it unless it tests at zero ppm. At least, this was the case a few years aog. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Harper Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? Does Canada really call for zero ppm in GF products? H. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Herman <jhinsfgmail> < > Cc: < > < > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:41 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Can someone please point out research which discusses a commercially available gluten test which tests to the level of zero ppm? I have never seen this. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:00 AM, " Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan " <lillythdenaghykeoghcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: See, everyone says there is no way to make it zero ppm. I think that is TOTAL BS. That is Canada’s standard, and they are really great place to live with celiac. So whenever people say it can’t be done – it IS done. It is sheer laziness on the part of manufacturers… Oh, and I added in the comments section that I thought GF should only be ZERO ppm. _,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 Below is a link to a well-researched and informative discussion on testing for gluten. It is dated June 2009. Note that it states that testing to Zero ppm is not possible to achieve (and apparently the Canadian Gov. would like to have that standard if it was practical). I think I would have heard if there were a new test out that could test for zero ppm (or even anything less than 3) because it would be big news in the celiac world; none of my searching on the web came up with any such test. http://www.theceliacscene.com/pdf/PPM.pdf Pam From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Zero ppm? - No, I’m not disputing that. I just wonder if this particular manufacturer had some different means of testing that *can* test to zero ppm. Again, he could have been very misinformed about the test, but I was wondering if he had some new way of testing, is all… And even if he doesn’t, I think that at some point it certainly *could* happen. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of TrVerb@... Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? - It's time to put this thread to rest. It's been established that the Canada standard is 20 ppm. Whatever one manufacture claims is irrelevant. -----Original Message----- From: Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan <lillythdenaghykeogh@...> Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:13 pm Subject: RE: [ ] Zero ppm? Perhaps the manufacturer was misinformed about Canada’s regulations, but he was *very* clear on his testing having been done at ZERO ppm, rather than 20. Who knows, perhaps he was misinformed all around, or using some other way of testing. I don’t know. But when I spoke with him, he kept saying “zero parts per million”… From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam Newbury Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 6:03 PM Subject: [ ] Zero ppm? Lillyth, I can only assume your manufacturer was using a bit of hyperbole or didn’t consider the difference between zero and 20 ppm significant. When I hear conflicting opinions I always try to find a primary source. Here is the information closest to a primary source that I could find on this subject. Here is the actual regulation from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. You will note it makes no actual mention of “parts per million.” 9.9.4 Gluten-Free Foods [b.24.018, B.24.019] A food is not permitted to be labelled, packaged, sold or advertised in a manner likely to create an impression that it is " gluten-free " unless it does not contain wheat, including spelt and kamut, or oats, barley, rye, triticale or any part thereof. For information detailing how they actually test foods labeled gluten-free, I found this on the Health Canada web site: Tolerance to gluten varies among individuals with CD and there are limited clinical scientific data on a threshold for the amount of gluten required to initiate or maintain an immunological reaction in CD patients. Therefore, there is no clear consensus on a safe gluten threshold level. Currently, as per section B.24.018 of the Food and Drug Regulations (Government of Canada 2009), a food cannot be labelled as " gluten-free " if it contains wheat, including spelt and kamut, or oats, barley, rye or triticale or any part thereof. For compliance purposes, for food products labelled as " gluten-free " , Health Canada uses a maximum limit of 20 ppm. Based on current scientific evidence, this generally represents a maximum level which can be used to interpret Section B.24.018 of the Food and Drug Regulations where a food is prepared under good manufacturing conditions aimed at achieving the lowest possible levels of gluten resulting from cross-contamination. This action level is consistent with the Standard for Foods for Special Dietary Use for Persons Intolerant to Gluten (CODEX STAN 118 - 1979) established by Codex Alimentarius (Codex 2008) and is subject to periodic review as new data become available regarding emerging analytical techniques and a possible gluten threshold. This maximum limit will be applied to " gluten-free " natural health products which may contain gluten as a contaminant. (Health Canada is a federal agency in Canada charged with keeping Canadians healthy.) I believe I’ve posted this link before, but since it gives a good presentation of the differing opinions on the meaning of “Gluten-Free” so I’m posting the link again. http://www.celiactoday.com/Community/Opinions_Differ_as_US_FDA_Prepares_To_Define_What_‘GlutenFree’_Means The lowest test I have heard of detects gluten at 3 ppm. I don’t know why they don’t use this test routinely or why the FDA doesn’t use 3ppm as a standard instead of 20. Maybe it is expensive or hard to administer. Or maybe most manufacturers would just be very unlikely to be able to meet this standard. At this point, I am not aware of any test that will detect anything less than 3 ppm gluten. Pam From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Zero ppm? Yes. They do. I have spoken to manufacturers who have told me they test their products to Canadian standards, which are zero ppm. Canada will not let your product into the country with a GF label on it unless it tests at zero ppm. At least, this was the case a few years aog. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Harper Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? Does Canada really call for zero ppm in GF products? H. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Herman <jhinsf@...> < > Cc: < > < > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:41 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Can someone please point out research which discusses a commercially available gluten test which tests to the level of zero ppm? I have never seen this. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:00 AM, " Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan " <lillythdenaghykeogh@...> wrote: See, everyone says there is no way to make it zero ppm. I think that is TOTAL BS. That is Canada’s standard, and they are really great place to live with celiac. So whenever people say it can’t be done – it IS done. It is sheer laziness on the part of manufacturers… Oh, and I added in the comments section that I thought GF should only be ZERO ppm. _,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 I bet that’s what they dude I talked to was referring to then. This also begs the question, if testing to 5 ppm is possible, why isn’t everyone doing that? My guess is the food lobby… From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam Newbury Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:35 PM Subject: [ ] Zero ppm? Below is a link to a well-researched and informative discussion on testing for gluten. It is dated June 2009. Note that it states that testing to Zero ppm is not possible to achieve (and apparently the Canadian Gov. would like to have that standard if it was practical). I think I would have heard if there were a new test out that could test for zero ppm (or even anything less than 3) because it would be big news in the celiac world; none of my searching on the web came up with any such test. http://www.theceliacscene.com/pdf/PPM.pdf Pam From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Zero ppm? - No, I’m not disputing that. I just wonder if this particular manufacturer had some different means of testing that *can* test to zero ppm. Again, he could have been very misinformed about the test, but I was wondering if he had some new way of testing, is all… And even if he doesn’t, I think that at some point it certainly *could* happen. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of TrVerb@... Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? - It's time to put this thread to rest. It's been established that the Canada standard is 20 ppm. Whatever one manufacture claims is irrelevant. -----Original Message----- From: Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan <lillythdenaghykeoghcomcast (DOT) net> Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:13 pm Subject: RE: [ ] Zero ppm? Perhaps the manufacturer was misinformed about Canada’s regulations, but he was *very* clear on his testing having been done at ZERO ppm, rather than 20. Who knows, perhaps he was misinformed all around, or using some other way of testing. I don’t know. But when I spoke with him, he kept saying “zero parts per million”… From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam Newbury Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 6:03 PM Subject: [ ] Zero ppm? Lillyth, I can only assume your manufacturer was using a bit of hyperbole or didn’t consider the difference between zero and 20 ppm significant. When I hear conflicting opinions I always try to find a primary source. Here is the information closest to a primary source that I could find on this subject. Here is the actual regulation from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. You will note it makes no actual mention of “parts per million.” 9.9.4 Gluten-Free Foods [b.24.018, B.24.019] A food is not permitted to be labelled, packaged, sold or advertised in a manner likely to create an impression that it is " gluten-free " unless it does not contain wheat, including spelt and kamut, or oats, barley, rye, triticale or any part thereof. For information detailing how they actually test foods labeled gluten-free, I found this on the Health Canada web site: Tolerance to gluten varies among individuals with CD and there are limited clinical scientific data on a threshold for the amount of gluten required to initiate or maintain an immunological reaction in CD patients. Therefore, there is no clear consensus on a safe gluten threshold level. Currently, as per section B.24.018 of the Food and Drug Regulations (Government of Canada 2009), a food cannot be labelled as " gluten-free " if it contains wheat, including spelt and kamut, or oats, barley, rye or triticale or any part thereof. For compliance purposes, for food products labelled as " gluten-free " , Health Canada uses a maximum limit of 20 ppm. Based on current scientific evidence, this generally represents a maximum level which can be used to interpret Section B.24.018 of the Food and Drug Regulations where a food is prepared under good manufacturing conditions aimed at achieving the lowest possible levels of gluten resulting from cross-contamination. This action level is consistent with the Standard for Foods for Special Dietary Use for Persons Intolerant to Gluten (CODEX STAN 118 - 1979) established by Codex Alimentarius (Codex 2008) and is subject to periodic review as new data become available regarding emerging analytical techniques and a possible gluten threshold. This maximum limit will be applied to " gluten-free " natural health products which may contain gluten as a contaminant. (Health Canada is a federal agency in Canada charged with keeping Canadians healthy.) I believe I’ve posted this link before, but since it gives a good presentation of the differing opinions on the meaning of “Gluten-Free” so I’m posting the link again. http://www.celiactoday.com/Community/Opinions_Differ_as_US_FDA_Prepares_To_Define_What_‘GlutenFree’_Means The lowest test I have heard of detects gluten at 3 ppm. I don’t know why they don’t use this test routinely or why the FDA doesn’t use 3ppm as a standard instead of 20. Maybe it is expensive or hard to administer. Or maybe most manufacturers would just be very unlikely to be able to meet this standard. At this point, I am not aware of any test that will detect anything less than 3 ppm gluten. Pam From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Zero ppm? Yes. They do. I have spoken to manufacturers who have told me they test their products to Canadian standards, which are zero ppm. Canada will not let your product into the country with a GF label on it unless it tests at zero ppm. At least, this was the case a few years aog. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Harper Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Zero ppm? Does Canada really call for zero ppm in GF products? H. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Herman <jhinsfgmail> < > Cc: < > < > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 8:41 am Subject: Re: [ ] FDA Research Study (really just a survey) Can someone please point out research which discusses a commercially available gluten test which tests to the level of zero ppm? I have never seen this. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:00 AM, " Lillyth Denaghy Keogh-Quillan " <lillythdenaghykeoghcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: See, everyone says there is no way to make it zero ppm. I think that is TOTAL BS. That is Canada’s standard, and they are really great place to live with celiac. So whenever people say it can’t be done – it IS done. It is sheer laziness on the part of manufacturers… Oh, and I added in the comments section that I thought GF should only be ZERO ppm. _,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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