Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 I know how you feel ! I cannot go outside my bedroom without experiencing anxiety and panic! I have generalized anxiety on top of the panic disorder. & nbsp; I have depersonalization 24 hours a day 7 days a week...I've never not had it! The medications don't even stop it. & nbsp; I've had MRIS and other testing done to make sure nothing is wrong in the brain. & nbsp; I've had it for several years and with all the CBT therapy it is still the one symptom that will not go away and its very frustrating! & nbsp; I met with the store manager of the Walmart I go to. & nbsp; Basically, I realize he can't do anything about people that are ignorant and rude ( I mean the ones who see she is a service dog and make a snide comment asking me what MY disablitity is..not nice people who simply do not know and take the time to ask). & nbsp; He just basically advised that her bag and her vest is marked (which it is because most places require that by law). & nbsp; But Meijers and Walmart both are great to me now. & nbsp; The District Manager even knows Bella and myself by name. & nbsp; & nbsp; He sent a storewide email out about Bella and myself. & nbsp; When we do get out (which isn't often), I introduce myself if there is someone new at the door. & nbsp; I've not had any issues lately with anyone being rude which is nice, and they know they can't ask me to leave when I take her license with me as it is against the law to do so. & nbsp; I've even seen a few places like Walmart and Lowes that have a sign on the door about service animals being welcomed. & nbsp; That's nice to see things like that, especially when living in a very small area and not seeing many service animals in the stores! It helps to educate and I'm all for that From: & lt;gocatholic@... & gt; Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 9:53 AM Dear , Yes, while it is true that the vast majority of service dogs are not small enough to fit in a tote, it doesn't mean they aren't legitimate because they do. Personally, I have a service dog because I literally cannot go out into a crowded situation (more than four or five people around me) without having high anxiety. The dog doesn't *always* prevent the anxiety but she does alleviate it when it happens. Sometimes, it is an attack that is severe enough for me to experience depersonalization which is sort of like having an out of body experience. In my case, it is important that I have a dog that is about Emmy's size (between 40 and 70 pounds) so that she can use her weight to bring me back to reality. Emmy also helps me to keep focused and that can be a preventative aspect of her involvement with me. But when retailers give me a hard time, my social anxiety and loss of focus combine so that the irate retailer then *causes* an anxiety attack in me. That is how important it is to me that people are educated that I have the right to come in with my dog. People (my local Wal-Mart store employees in particular) don't seem to realize that by denying the dog access, they are denying ME access. If they say she can't come in, I can't just say " oh darn " and take her out to the car and then come inside alone. I ALSO HAVE TO LEAVE. This is America and I have the right to shop despite my disability. At the same time, I have obligations to the public. When we go to the pediatrician' s office or my doctor's office, it is perfectly reasonable for them to ask me to sit where I will not expose Emmy to someone who has allergies to animals. I can live with that. It is NOT okay for them to say I can't go to the doctor because other people are allergic to my dog. That would be like making me go home if I walk in wearing polyester and there are people there who are allergic to it. Love from & gt; & gt; Hi ! & gt; I have extreme panic disorder too with agoraphobia. & amp;nbsp; Emmy sounds like a great dog for you! I think in the beginning many thought I was trying to " sneak " my cute little dog in her little tote bag into the store. & amp;nbsp; My mom wrote a great letter to the editor after I was & amp;nbsp;harrassed a few times. & amp;nbsp; She emphasized the fact that I am not trying to be a Paris Hilton or celebrity, that my dog is a licensed service dog. & amp;nbsp; I think it woke a lot of people up, because after that letter, a few people stopped to ask if that letter was about myself being harrassed and they apologized for the ignorant people that were doing it. & amp;nbsp; Bella helps me to be more social when I am out, and to not rush through my outing, to try not to give in to the lovely fight or flight. & amp;nbsp; I had a really hard time finding out how to get one, since several agencies were so expensive. & amp;nbsp; Then my CBT psychologist and psychiatrist helped me complete the procedure. & amp;nbsp; & gt; I just have to keep her updated on her vaccinations which is easy since I have two other dogs, and her license is free every year when its time to renew. & amp;nbsp; I think a pet is a great asset to anyone experiencing isolation and chronic illness! They really do help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Hi Melynda: Sorry to hear you haven't been feeling that great, plus, having all that pain! You sure do need a break, so I am praying you will be pain free soon. I am glad had such a nice Fathers Day. Always nice to fish. Take care, rest, and remember, I am praying for you, and God Bless you always. Hugs, Barb From: & lt;gocatholic@ gmail. com & gt; Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs @gro ups.com Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 10:12 PM You know, I am actually less knowledgeable about the legal, technical differences in the definitions than I would like to be. I have been told that therapy dogs are not federally protected in that if you are told to leave the premises you cannot file a complaint with the Justice Dept., however some psychiatric dogs are considered to be " service dogs " and, as such, are federally protected... .......but that is just my understanding. I know that my state's Commission on Human Rights will fight tooth and nail (for free) to protect my right to access because they have examined my dog and know I need her. I am definitely no lawyer, but I can say that my own dog is protected by the law. If someone were to intentionally kill my dog, they would automatically have to pay my state gov't a $10,000 fine on top of any civil damages they might have to pay me personally. If they deny access to my dog, depending on the severity of the situation, they could go to prison. I'm glad you have your dog and I'm glad it helps you. I do worry about people who don't really have sufferings of any kind and just want a dog with them, don't you? It makes it tougher for people like me and you to get access. Love from & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; , & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; When I was recovering from leg surgery in the Rehab Hospital, they & gt; brought & gt; & amp;gt; dogs thru for training. Once every couple weeks, all would walk & gt; thru the hall & gt; & amp;gt; and wait to be invited in! I loved it and looked forward to it, & gt; almost as & gt; & amp;gt; much as when my husband came and brought our dog to visit me. I am & gt; looking at & gt; & amp;gt; a second surgery for my leg and am hoping that I will be in a & gt; hospital that & gt; & amp;gt; allows animals, it really does make a difference. & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; Gentle Hugs & amp;amp; Prayers, & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; Carol & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; @ & amp;gt;~~~ ~ & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 hi barb, how r u doing? i'm doing a lil better.however, last night & today my upper legs r KILLING me. they feel like weak, i don't know how to describe it, all i know is it HURTS!! i have been resting all day so i decided to get on line. it's always NICE to hear from you. THANK-YOU SOO MUCH FOR THE PRAYERS, I NEED THEM!! i think of u as well, you're a " SPECIAL " person to me, barb... i think i could just chat with u & i would b fine! but i try to HELP those who i can RELATE to whatever the situation may b. this group has HELPED me alot, ESPECIALLY U BARB!! god bless,melyndagamez 6/18/08 5:10p.m.central [ ] Re: Service Dogs @gro ups.com Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 10:12 PM You know, I am actually less knowledgeable about the legal, technical differences in the definitions than I would like to be. I have been told that therapy dogs are not federally protected in that if you are told to leave the premises you cannot file a complaint with the Justice Dept., however some psychiatric dogs are considered to be " service dogs " and, as such, are federally protected... ........but that is just my understanding. I know that my state's Commission on Human Rights will fight tooth and nail (for free) to protect my right to access because they have examined my dog and know I need her. I am definitely no lawyer, but I can say that my own dog is protected by the law. If someone were to intentionally kill my dog, they would automatically have to pay my state gov't a $10,000 fine on top of any civil damages they might have to pay me personally. If they deny access to my dog, depending on the severity of the situation, they could go to prison. I'm glad you have your dog and I'm glad it helps you. I do worry about people who don't really have sufferings of any kind and just want a dog with them, don't you? It makes it tougher for people like me and you to get access. Love from & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; , & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; When I was recovering from leg surgery in the Rehab Hospital, they & gt; brought & gt; & amp;gt; dogs thru for training. Once every couple weeks, all would walk & gt; thru the hall & gt; & amp;gt; and wait to be invited in! I loved it and looked forward to it, & gt; almost as & gt; & amp;gt; much as when my husband came and brought our dog to visit me. I am & gt; looking at & gt; & amp;gt; a second surgery for my leg and am hoping that I will be in a & gt; hospital that & gt; & amp;gt; allows animals, it really does make a difference. & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; Gentle Hugs & amp;amp; Prayers, & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; Carol & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; @ & amp;gt;~~~ ~ & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Hi Melynda: So sorry to hear you are feeling so much pain in your legs. I absolutely hate when pain overtakes us, and stresses us out. I do pray that you will soon get some much needed relief, and pain free days. How is your weather now? I know certain kinds of weather raises hell with our bodies. That is why I moved from Cape Cod to Florida. I couldn't endure the winters anymore. Do you like to read? I love all kinds of books, and I am reading Janet Evanovich's series about Plum, who works for her cousin Vinnie, a Bail Bondsman. She goes after the people who fail to show at court.. I tell you, I laugh so hard and so much! It is light reading, but so good.. The first book is, " One for The Money " , and I just finished book 12. I was up late as I couldn't sleep, and my hubby was sleeping of course, I was laughing so much I had to put my sock in my mouth, to keep from waking him up!!! So, maybe you could try her books if you haven't already done so. How are you feeling today? I hope a little better. We all need better days, that's for sure. God Bless you Melynda. I know you have very tough days. Hugs, Barb From: & lt;gocatholic@ gmail. com & gt; Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs @gro ups.com Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 10:12 PM You know, I am actually less knowledgeable about the legal, technical differences in the definitions than I would like to be. I have been told that therapy dogs are not federally protected in that if you are told to leave the premises you cannot file a complaint with the Justice Dept., however some psychiatric dogs are considered to be " service dogs " and, as such, are federally protected... ........but that is just my understanding. I know that my state's Commission on Human Rights will fight tooth and nail (for free) to protect my right to access because they have examined my dog and know I need her. I am definitely no lawyer, but I can say that my own dog is protected by the law. If someone were to intentionally kill my dog, they would automatically have to pay my state gov't a $10,000 fine on top of any civil damages they might have to pay me personally. If they deny access to my dog, depending on the severity of the situation, they could go to prison. I'm glad you have your dog and I'm glad it helps you. I do worry about people who don't really have sufferings of any kind and just want a dog with them, don't you? It makes it tougher for people like me and you to get access. Love from & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; , & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; When I was recovering from leg surgery in the Rehab Hospital, they & gt; brought & gt; & amp;gt; dogs thru for training. Once every couple weeks, all would walk & gt; thru the hall & gt; & amp;gt; and wait to be invited in! I loved it and looked forward to it, & gt; almost as & gt; & amp;gt; much as when my husband came and brought our dog to visit me. I am & gt; looking at & gt; & amp;gt; a second surgery for my leg and am hoping that I will be in a & gt; hospital that & gt; & amp;gt; allows animals, it really does make a difference. & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; Gentle Hugs & amp;amp; Prayers, & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; Carol & gt; & amp;gt; & gt; & amp;gt; @ & amp;gt;~~~ ~ & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Dear , I am the one who started this thread on service dogs. I have a service dog, as I noted, and I want to address the concerns you have. I want you to know that you bring up some very valid points. There is a lot of confusion out there and since I am currently involved in four investigations on denial of access, I can provide some information about the legalities. The laws do vary somewhat by state so everyone should be aware of that, but generally speaking, here are some things everyone should know about service dogs. Service dogs are completely different from therapy dogs. A therapy dog is a dog that is brought into a hospital or nursing home to visit people for purposes of comforting them. They are not necessary to any one individual. These dogs do not have the same federal protections that service dogs have. A retailer does not have to allow a therapy dog inside his place of business. He does have to allow a service dog in. A service dog is a dog that is trained to assist an individual with disabilities by performing certain tasks. My dog is not a " comfort " to me per se. She is more like a tool. She is by no means a " pet " . Virtually every interaction that I have with my dog is a training session. I have four children ages 7, 9, 11 and 15 and I get plenty of hugs and kisses from them. That's not what my dog is for. She is the equivalent of a wheelchair or a cane although she is a living creature. I am not all that emotionally attached to her so much that I wouldn't trade her in for a larger dog if my mobility problems worsen. When someone walks into a place of business with a dog, there are two questions he/she is allowed to ask the person. " Are you disabled? " and " Is that a service dog? " If the person answers yes to both questions, the retailer MUST allow them to come inside..........but here is the thing. If the dog performs in a manner that is a threat to other customers (growls, barks, bites), or defecates on the floor or sniffs food on the shelves, etc., the business owner can ask the person to remove the dog from the premises just as he would have the right to ask a drunk to leave for causing a disturbance. Because some people get drunk and cause disturbances, it doesn't mean you ban all people from your establishment. Same with service dogs. As long as the dog behaves well, you have to allow the dog to come inside and left to do its job. I have responsibilities, too. When I go out in public with my dog, I try to give others space in case they have a dog phobia or allergies. Children and dog lovers are actually my worst nightmare. I have trained my own children that they can pet the dog ONLY when she does not have her vest on. Most people are not aware of " service dog etiquette " . If you see a service dog, you are supposed to IGNORE IT. Also, you should keep an eye on your children because they will go after a dog like a magnet and they, too, should be taught to ignore the dog because it is a working dog. Let me give you an example. I am in a store checking out and as I am leaving to exit through the door, another customer is approaching the same door from the outside. I direct my dog *away* from the door by backing her up and I wait. I allow the entering customer to come inside, hopefully without even seeing me and the dog. Once he/she is well inside the door and is proceeding on into the store, I exit the store with the dog. I do not want contact between my dog and other people. I have had to train my dog not to sniff things (that is really hard to do). I have had to train her to ignore children and other distractions. An example of this is having my kids step over her while she is lying down and making sure that she doesn't react in any way. I have had to train her to walk right next to me and not want to wander off or pull on her leash at all. She has to be perfectly controlled or I will lose my right to shop -- and it is really my right to shop that I would be losing because I *cannot* go into a public place without my dog. If she can't come in, I can't come in, because I *need* the dog to be able to do what I need to do. I have both rights and responsibilities, see? When I complain to the human rights commission about denial of access and it reaches the point of investigation by an enforcement officer, I am *also* investigated.........not just the place of business, because even though they are familiar with me and my dog at the commission, these cases are handled on a case by case basis. I've had to take my dog to the enforcement officer for examination to show that she is not disruptive in any way and that I have total control over her. I have to make sure her shots are up to date, that she is decently groomed, etc. These things are not necessarily stated in the law, but they are common sense things that can affect the outcome of an investigation. It is no fun having to be attached to a dog all the time, believe me. I am not a dog fanatic. I love animals, but this is not about tactile stimulation alone (which is what therapy dogs are for). It is about many other things besides. I longed for the day when my kids would be old enough to not have car seats and to be able to buckle themselves in a car. That day arrived and now I have a service dog. Irony. I do NOT like being attached to another responsibility, but I have no choice other than to stay at home and have others do my shopping for me. Please don't think I'm being critical of your post. I am not. I responded to your post because I saw it as the most reasonable of all of the responses on this thread and the one that most adequately expresses the frustrations that some people have about service dogs. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that people with service dogs should have responsibilities to the public and I just want to assure you and others in the group that we do have those responsibilities. If we fail to live up to them, we are only making life more difficult for others who need service dogs because we are contributing to the aversion to them. I would even say that you not only have the right to tell people with service dogs that you have an allergy but that you have the responsibility to tell them that. If they get mad, so be it. They have to respect your medical condition just as you have to respect theirs. When we go to the doctor, I have to ask where the dog and I should sit because the staff has to be sure that I don't sit near people with allergies and I totally respect that. Please note, though, that most service dogs are well groomed so that the average pet dog owner carries more pet dander on his person than a service dog does. A backyard breeder would probably be more of a danger to a person with allergies than a service dog would be even though the backyard breeder is not, himself, a dog. Still, do let any service dog owner know if you have an allergy. Here is the most often quoted document on what the law says about service dogs and I hope everyone will read it whether they are interested or not. It will make all of our lives easier if we know what to do if we want to have a service dog or if we are encountered by one. http://www.ada.gov/animal.htm I hope everyone in the group finds this information helpful. Love from > > I have to admit that it never occured to me before reading this thread > that a small carried dog could be a service dog. I work retail and have > been disgusted by people carring their dogs into my store. Who knows if > they are service dogs or not - that is something I will think about > from now on. My reaction has always been that they pose a threat to my > health (allergies) and the saftey of my other customers, but corporate > policy dictates it is customer service to let customers do what they > please, irregardless of how it harms other customers. It seems that a > service dog should be well identified somehow.....although as I type > this, that seems like an unecessary stigma for the owner. But I'd like > to somehow be able to know that an animal in my store can be trusted to > have been properly trained, only because here in the states, pet owners > are largely poor trainers. You never know when a dog will leap out of > arms or a tote and bite, you never know who has what allergies around > you. I have seen it happen several times, these aren't really isolated > incidents unfortuanately. Many folk just cannot imagine their cute > little fluffy getting so excited or scared that it jumps and bites a > small child, they think only others' pets do so. Because you cannot be > confident in pet owners ability to control their pets, you cannot trust > the animals' presence amongst strangers, especially in a fast paced > public store. The image of a small toddler being scarred by a sudden, > unprovoked dog bite on her face is something you carry around with you > forever. So there are some rather valid reasons people are offended by > the presence of animals in public places where animals aren't expected. > I certainly would never harass someone for bringing in a dog to a > store, but they have harassed me for not helping them. They seem to > think it is an insult that they have to wait a few seconds while I get > someone else to wait on them, simply becasue I am trying to retain my > ability to breathe clearly. It is amazing to me that some can be so > adament about their own right while stepping on the rights of those > around them! Of course, I do not refer to those hear who speak of using > servive dogs and hope that sharing my side of this does not offend. > Somehow, I know that if I said I was allergic to one of you and > explained that I needed to get someone else to help you, you'd > understand. Not call corporate and complain about me, as I had actally > happen once because the nasty lady said she was in too big a hurry to > wait and she couldn't imagine that my " allergies were more important > than her time as a customer. " Sigh. It is always the few idiots that > make everything hard for the rest of us!Grrr!!! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control I am all set to go! From: <gocatholic@...> Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 10:52 AM Dear , I am the one who started this thread on service dogs. I have a service dog, as I noted, and I want to address the concerns you have. I want you to know that you bring up some very valid points. There is a lot of confusion out there and since I am currently involved in four investigations on denial of access, I can provide some information about the legalities. The laws do vary somewhat by state so everyone should be aware of that, but generally speaking, here are some things everyone should know about service dogs. Service dogs are completely different from therapy dogs. A therapy dog is a dog that is brought into a hospital or nursing home to visit people for purposes of comforting them. They are not necessary to any one individual. These dogs do not have the same federal protections that service dogs have. A retailer does not have to allow a therapy dog inside his place of business. He does have to allow a service dog in. A service dog is a dog that is trained to assist an individual with disabilities by performing certain tasks. My dog is not a " comfort " to me per se. She is more like a tool. She is by no means a " pet " . Virtually every interaction that I have with my dog is a training session. I have four children ages 7, 9, 11 and 15 and I get plenty of hugs and kisses from them. That's not what my dog is for. She is the equivalent of a wheelchair or a cane although she is a living creature. I am not all that emotionally attached to her so much that I wouldn't trade her in for a larger dog if my mobility problems worsen. When someone walks into a place of business with a dog, there are two questions he/she is allowed to ask the person. " Are you disabled? " and " Is that a service dog? " If the person answers yes to both questions, the retailer MUST allow them to come inside...... ....but here is the thing. If the dog performs in a manner that is a threat to other customers (growls, barks, bites), or defecates on the floor or sniffs food on the shelves, etc., the business owner can ask the person to remove the dog from the premises just as he would have the right to ask a drunk to leave for causing a disturbance. Because some people get drunk and cause disturbances, it doesn't mean you ban all people from your establishment. Same with service dogs. As long as the dog behaves well, you have to allow the dog to come inside and left to do its job. I have responsibilities, too. When I go out in public with my dog, I try to give others space in case they have a dog phobia or allergies. Children and dog lovers are actually my worst nightmare. I have trained my own children that they can pet the dog ONLY when she does not have her vest on. Most people are not aware of " service dog etiquette " . If you see a service dog, you are supposed to IGNORE IT. Also, you should keep an eye on your children because they will go after a dog like a magnet and they, too, should be taught to ignore the dog because it is a working dog. Let me give you an example. I am in a store checking out and as I am leaving to exit through the door, another customer is approaching the same door from the outside. I direct my dog *away* from the door by backing her up and I wait. I allow the entering customer to come inside, hopefully without even seeing me and the dog. Once he/she is well inside the door and is proceeding on into the store, I exit the store with the dog. I do not want contact between my dog and other people. I have had to train my dog not to sniff things (that is really hard to do). I have had to train her to ignore children and other distractions. An example of this is having my kids step over her while she is lying down and making sure that she doesn't react in any way. I have had to train her to walk right next to me and not want to wander off or pull on her leash at all. She has to be perfectly controlled or I will lose my right to shop -- and it is really my right to shop that I would be losing because I *cannot* go into a public place without my dog. If she can't come in, I can't come in, because I *need* the dog to be able to do what I need to do. I have both rights and responsibilities, see? When I complain to the human rights commission about denial of access and it reaches the point of investigation by an enforcement officer, I am *also* investigated. ........not just the place of business, because even though they are familiar with me and my dog at the commission, these cases are handled on a case by case basis. I've had to take my dog to the enforcement officer for examination to show that she is not disruptive in any way and that I have total control over her. I have to make sure her shots are up to date, that she is decently groomed, etc. These things are not necessarily stated in the law, but they are common sense things that can affect the outcome of an investigation. It is no fun having to be attached to a dog all the time, believe me. I am not a dog fanatic. I love animals, but this is not about tactile stimulation alone (which is what therapy dogs are for). It is about many other things besides. I longed for the day when my kids would be old enough to not have car seats and to be able to buckle themselves in a car. That day arrived and now I have a service dog. Irony. I do NOT like being attached to another responsibility, but I have no choice other than to stay at home and have others do my shopping for me. Please don't think I'm being critical of your post. I am not. I responded to your post because I saw it as the most reasonable of all of the responses on this thread and the one that most adequately expresses the frustrations that some people have about service dogs. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that people with service dogs should have responsibilities to the public and I just want to assure you and others in the group that we do have those responsibilities. If we fail to live up to them, we are only making life more difficult for others who need service dogs because we are contributing to the aversion to them. I would even say that you not only have the right to tell people with service dogs that you have an allergy but that you have the responsibility to tell them that. If they get mad, so be it. They have to respect your medical condition just as you have to respect theirs. When we go to the doctor, I have to ask where the dog and I should sit because the staff has to be sure that I don't sit near people with allergies and I totally respect that. Please note, though, that most service dogs are well groomed so that the average pet dog owner carries more pet dander on his person than a service dog does. A backyard breeder would probably be more of a danger to a person with allergies than a service dog would be even though the backyard breeder is not, himself, a dog. Still, do let any service dog owner know if you have an allergy. Here is the most often quoted document on what the law says about service dogs and I hope everyone will read it whether they are interested or not. It will make all of our lives easier if we know what to do if we want to have a service dog or if we are encountered by one. http://www.ada. gov/animal. htm I hope everyone in the group finds this information helpful. Love from > > I have to admit that it never occured to me before reading this thread > that a small carried dog could be a service dog. I work retail and have > been disgusted by people carring their dogs into my store. Who knows if > they are service dogs or not - that is something I will think about > from now on. My reaction has always been that they pose a threat to my > health (allergies) and the saftey of my other customers, but corporate > policy dictates it is customer service to let customers do what they > please, irregardless of how it harms other customers. It seems that a > service dog should be well identified somehow..... although as I type > this, that seems like an unecessary stigma for the owner. But I'd like > to somehow be able to know that an animal in my store can be trusted to > have been properly trained, only because here in the states, pet owners > are largely poor trainers. You never know when a dog will leap out of > arms or a tote and bite, you never know who has what allergies around > you. I have seen it happen several times, these aren't really isolated > incidents unfortuanately. Many folk just cannot imagine their cute > little fluffy getting so excited or scared that it jumps and bites a > small child, they think only others' pets do so. Because you cannot be > confident in pet owners ability to control their pets, you cannot trust > the animals' presence amongst strangers, especially in a fast paced > public store. The image of a small toddler being scarred by a sudden, > unprovoked dog bite on her face is something you carry around with you > forever. So there are some rather valid reasons people are offended by > the presence of animals in public places where animals aren't expected. > I certainly would never harass someone for bringing in a dog to a > store, but they have harassed me for not helping them. They seem to > think it is an insult that they have to wait a few seconds while I get > someone else to wait on them, simply becasue I am trying to retain my > ability to breathe clearly. It is amazing to me that some can be so > adament about their own right while stepping on the rights of those > around them! Of course, I do not refer to those hear who speak of using > servive dogs and hope that sharing my side of this does not offend. > Somehow, I know that if I said I was allergic to one of you and > explained that I needed to get someone else to help you, you'd > understand. Not call corporate and complain about me, as I had actally > happen once because the nasty lady said she was in too big a hurry to > wait and she couldn't imagine that my " allergies were more important > than her time as a customer. " Sigh. It is always the few idiots that > make everything hard for the rest of us!Grrr!!! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 No license is required for a service dog. There wasn't even a federal registry in existence until a couple of months ago. Love from > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control I am all set to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 I am glad you started this thread, as I have learned a lot here. Sevice dogs walking the blind are easy to recognize; I never before would have known a smaller, carried dog could be a service dog. I do not have kids but I will be marrying into grandkids that already call me grammy lol - and the oldest (2) is an adament dog lover. This is a topic the kids need to be educated on, for sure. I never felt you were criticizing, quite the contrary. You obviously take your responsibilities as seriously as your rights - a disappearing feature on the American landscape I fear! And I must clarify that I do not think there have been service dogs that have caused me any issue in my retail work. It is others who bring in their pets most likely. And while I am in perfect legal right to ask them to leave the premises, by my and most company standards I cannot. Corporate retail has become so bent on satisfying all customers at all times, they forget that some satisfaction will come at the suffereing of many others who are also customers. They refuse to acknowledge the trade-off. If I make a pet owner leave the premises and they complain high enough up the corporate chain, I would possibly get written up. BUT if that same pet were to bite someone, as a manager I would be verbally beaten up over not having asked them to leave, and certainly involved in any legal issue that arised. It is a no-win situation. I have personally seen two animals attack customers inside a store, and several others make a mess of various sorts. Luckily for me those incidents all happened when I wasn't a manager...but it is those irresponsible types that make it worse for all. I think these types feed any issues that service dogs face in their acceptance. OK, now I am off to read that link you gave. Take care! > > > > I have to admit that it never occured to me before reading this thread > > that a small carried dog could be a service dog. I work retail and have > > been disgusted by people carring their dogs into my store. Who knows if > > they are service dogs or not - that is something I will think about > > from now on. My reaction has always been that they pose a threat to my > > health (allergies) and the saftey of my other customers, but corporate > > policy dictates it is customer service to let customers do what they > > please, irregardless of how it harms other customers. It seems that a > > service dog should be well identified somehow.....although as I type > > this, that seems like an unecessary stigma for the owner. But I'd like > > to somehow be able to know that an animal in my store can be trusted to > > have been properly trained, only because here in the states, pet owners > > are largely poor trainers. You never know when a dog will leap out of > > arms or a tote and bite, you never know who has what allergies around > > you. I have seen it happen several times, these aren't really isolated > > incidents unfortuanately. Many folk just cannot imagine their cute > > little fluffy getting so excited or scared that it jumps and bites a > > small child, they think only others' pets do so. Because you cannot be > > confident in pet owners ability to control their pets, you cannot trust > > the animals' presence amongst strangers, especially in a fast paced > > public store. The image of a small toddler being scarred by a sudden, > > unprovoked dog bite on her face is something you carry around with you > > forever. So there are some rather valid reasons people are offended by > > the presence of animals in public places where animals aren't expected. > > I certainly would never harass someone for bringing in a dog to a > > store, but they have harassed me for not helping them. They seem to > > think it is an insult that they have to wait a few seconds while I get > > someone else to wait on them, simply becasue I am trying to retain my > > ability to breathe clearly. It is amazing to me that some can be so > > adament about their own right while stepping on the rights of those > > around them! Of course, I do not refer to those hear who speak of using > > servive dogs and hope that sharing my side of this does not offend. > > Somehow, I know that if I said I was allergic to one of you and > > explained that I needed to get someone else to help you, you'd > > understand. Not call corporate and complain about me, as I had actally > > happen once because the nasty lady said she was in too big a hurry to > > wait and she couldn't imagine that my " allergies were more important > > than her time as a customer. " Sigh. It is always the few idiots that > > make everything hard for the rest of us!Grrr!!! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 I've had my service dog for two years. My doctor, actually, more than one doctor got together and wrote a prescription and because she was mine personally and not through an agency as they were too expensive, I had to send all this information in to Animal Control just like licensing a regular dog. All dogs must be licensed each year they get their rabies shots. Hers has a special number and on the paperwork that goes with it states Service Dog. I keep my prescription attached to that although I never have to show it. From: <gocatholic@...> Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 12:45 AM No license is required for a service dog. There wasn't even a federal registry in existence until a couple of months ago. Love from > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control I am all set to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 It depends on how you define the word " prescription " . There is a letter on file with the state human rights commission from my doctor saying that in his opinion I could benefit from a service dog. Technically, that's a prescription. When you say the word " prescription " it can be misleading to some people, as if there is some network out there that has service dogs for people and that the doctor writes an actual prescription that prescribes a specific dog or type of dog and you take it to that network and have your prescription " filled " . So, it's a matter of semantics, really, but the implication that it is a very simple, basic, legal, medical process is misleading. Prescriptions and certification are not required by law. A federal registry did not exist until a couple of months ago and participation is voluntary and requires no official participation by any doctor, trainer, etc. There are good reasons for this. Some people cannot afford health care and some people cannot afford the thousands of dollars required for a certified, professionally trained service dog. I fall in that category. I had to train my own dog and the vast majority of dogs are owner/trained, not license, not trained and maybe even not prescribed by a doctor......yet they are still legal under the ADA provided that they actually do what a service dog is supposed to do. Some people (myself included) believe that it actually is harmful to the poor who own service dogs if you provide documentation to business owners to gain access because then business owners get the idea that it is required by law. I do have a card that I created myself online at a place called EasyID and it has her federal registration number and it says she's been ADI Public Access Tested. What it does not say is that anyone can get a federal registration number just by typing in the information themselves (they can lie if they choose, to get the number) and it does not say that I am the one who gave her the ADI test. So, like you, all of the information I have provided is true information, but it is still true that it doesn't really " mean " anything. I have violated my own sensibilities by making a card like that because it is not necessary, doesn't really have the weight of law, and can cause problems for other service dog owners........but I am tired of the rejection......and since my illness is panic disorder, it was to prevent conflict that can cause attacks in me, so I do it out of desperation. I have a good relationship with a team leader for the enforcement officers in my state. I know that when it all boils down, the only thing that matters is her opinion. It's her job to make sure my dog is legitimate and it is based on her investigation through examining my dog, my training methods, etc. She is a professional trainer and I know of two incidents where her dog (which has far more training, and it's all professional training) has behaved in a manner worse than my own dog. Dogs aren't perfect. They goof sometimes. So all these cases of discrimination are handled on a case-by-case basis because even a $30,000 service dog can make a mistake and growl at someone. Anyway, I just wanted to clear all of that up because I don't want people to get the idea that it's necessary that dogs be licensed, certified, prescribed, etc. It simply is not necessary under the law and only people (I'm assuming people like you, with a misunderstood disability like mine) should provide documentation to business owners even if they have it. Thanks so much. > > > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they > cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest > on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the > managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not > bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are > simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have > everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health > issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and > I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control > I am all set to go! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Dogs do have to be licensed though by Animal Control. Every year a dog is given a rabie shot and a new license is given. Across Bella's it says " Service Dog " and it helps me avoid a lot of hassle..and in most states it is a law that dogs have licenses. From: <gocatholic@...> Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 8:26 AM It depends on how you define the word " prescription " . There is a letter on file with the state human rights commission from my doctor saying that in his opinion I could benefit from a service dog. Technically, that's a prescription. When you say the word " prescription " it can be misleading to some people, as if there is some network out there that has service dogs for people and that the doctor writes an actual prescription that prescribes a specific dog or type of dog and you take it to that network and have your prescription " filled " . So, it's a matter of semantics, really, but the implication that it is a very simple, basic, legal, medical process is misleading. Prescriptions and certification are not required by law. A federal registry did not exist until a couple of months ago and participation is voluntary and requires no official participation by any doctor, trainer, etc. There are good reasons for this. Some people cannot afford health care and some people cannot afford the thousands of dollars required for a certified, professionally trained service dog. I fall in that category. I had to train my own dog and the vast majority of dogs are owner/trained, not license, not trained and maybe even not prescribed by a doctor...... yet they are still legal under the ADA provided that they actually do what a service dog is supposed to do. Some people (myself included) believe that it actually is harmful to the poor who own service dogs if you provide documentation to business owners to gain access because then business owners get the idea that it is required by law. I do have a card that I created myself online at a place called EasyID and it has her federal registration number and it says she's been ADI Public Access Tested. What it does not say is that anyone can get a federal registration number just by typing in the information themselves (they can lie if they choose, to get the number) and it does not say that I am the one who gave her the ADI test. So, like you, all of the information I have provided is true information, but it is still true that it doesn't really " mean " anything. I have violated my own sensibilities by making a card like that because it is not necessary, doesn't really have the weight of law, and can cause problems for other service dog owners...... ..but I am tired of the rejection... ...and since my illness is panic disorder, it was to prevent conflict that can cause attacks in me, so I do it out of desperation. I have a good relationship with a team leader for the enforcement officers in my state. I know that when it all boils down, the only thing that matters is her opinion. It's her job to make sure my dog is legitimate and it is based on her investigation through examining my dog, my training methods, etc. She is a professional trainer and I know of two incidents where her dog (which has far more training, and it's all professional training) has behaved in a manner worse than my own dog. Dogs aren't perfect. They goof sometimes. So all these cases of discrimination are handled on a case-by-case basis because even a $30,000 service dog can make a mistake and growl at someone. Anyway, I just wanted to clear all of that up because I don't want people to get the idea that it's necessary that dogs be licensed, certified, prescribed, etc. It simply is not necessary under the law and only people (I'm assuming people like you, with a misunderstood disability like mine) should provide documentation to business owners even if they have it. Thanks so much. > > > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they > cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest > on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the > managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not > bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are > simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have > everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health > issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and > I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control > I am all set to go! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 In that event, all pet dogs are licensed, see? And I had no idea you were referring to a regular license. I thought we were discussing a specific license for a service dog, not a regular dog license like you get for shots. Who put " Service Dog " on your dog's license and what process did you have to go through to get it put on there? Was your dog tested to see if it is fully trained? Or did whoever made the tag just put it on there as a favor to you? I am not trying to be difficult, I promise. It is just that misinformation about service animals is a big cross for me (and you, I'm sure) to bear. I would much rather people understand that specific licenses are *not required* for service dogs (as the Dept. of Justice states in its educational publications) rather than make the public believe my dog is officially licensed " therefore " it's okay. My dog's ID/Info card has, I'm guessing, the same weight in a court of law as your dog's license -- which is none, when it all boils down to what the federal law says. Although the information on it is true, it doesn't really mean anything to anyone who really knows the laws about service dogs. It only helps you (and me) get access by playing on people's ignorance. Here is an analogy. Let's say it's 1968 and I am black and I am going to go play golf at a predominantly white golf course. I know I have problems with access because of discrimination, so I carry around a card in my pocket which I made myself but looks very " official " which states what the law says about my right to access. Does the card make me " legitimate " ? No. I made it myself, or maybe my lawyer had someone make it for me, or whatever, but the point is that WITH OR WITHOUT the card, I have a legitimate right to play golf there. If a lot of people carry around documentation when it is not required, it makes it more difficult for people without documentation to get access because the public begins to develop the idea that the documentation is required since they have seen others present it. Does that make sense? Like I said, I use the info card because (like you) I have an invisible disability. I am not saying you shouldn't use the tag and say it's a " license " (because technically it is a license, right?). I am only saying that particularly in a public forum like this where people are asking for information, we shouldn't promote the idea that our dogs are " okay because " they are registered, licensed, prescribed or whatever. It is false that they cannot deny you access if your dog has documentation. They can deny you access legitimately if your dog growls, is very dirty or stinky or if it is sniffing all over people, etc. Service dog access cases are handled on a case by case basis and a person whose dog does *not have* a license, registration or prescription can very EASILY win a case of denial of access provided that they really are disabled and the dog really is trained to help them. Does that make sense? Love from > > > > From: <gocatholic@ ...> > > Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs > > @gro ups.com > > Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 12:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No license is required for a service dog. There wasn't even a federal > > registry in existence until a couple of months ago. > > > > Love from > > > > --- In @gro ups.com, stephanie <stephieann2@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they > > cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest > > on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the > > managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not > > bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are > > simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have > > everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health > > issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and > > I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control > > I am all set to go! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 My doctors do not do anything as a favor to me. It is against the law. NO not only PET dogs need a liscense. Every dog is supposed to be updated on rabies every single time the vaccination expires. It is how it is done in my state. My brother bought the dog for me as I could not afford one from Paws for Claws. It was trained. It stays in a tote and does not get out of the bag at all. My doctor followed the law. he wrote me a prescription..not just anyone can get service dogs. In that fact, anyone could take their pet and get it licensed as one just becaue they want to \take it anywhere. My doctor did as the health dept and as the state of michigan advised him to do. I'm deeply OFFENDED that you claim I do things the wrong way and that someone who doesn't even know me did a favor. It is how it is done here so that I have documentation to back up the fact that she is licensed and trained From: <gocatholic@...> Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 4:08 PM In that event, all pet dogs are licensed, see? And I had no idea you were referring to a regular license. I thought we were discussing a specific license for a service dog, not a regular dog license like you get for shots. Who put " Service Dog " on your dog's license and what process did you have to go through to get it put on there? Was your dog tested to see if it is fully trained? Or did whoever made the tag just put it on there as a favor to you? I am not trying to be difficult, I promise. It is just that misinformation about service animals is a big cross for me (and you, I'm sure) to bear. I would much rather people understand that specific licenses are *not required* for service dogs (as the Dept. of Justice states in its educational publications) rather than make the public believe my dog is officially licensed " therefore " it's okay. My dog's ID/Info card has, I'm guessing, the same weight in a court of law as your dog's license -- which is none, when it all boils down to what the federal law says. Although the information on it is true, it doesn't really mean anything to anyone who really knows the laws about service dogs. It only helps you (and me) get access by playing on people's ignorance. Here is an analogy. Let's say it's 1968 and I am black and I am going to go play golf at a predominantly white golf course. I know I have problems with access because of discrimination, so I carry around a card in my pocket which I made myself but looks very " official " which states what the law says about my right to access. Does the card make me " legitimate " ? No. I made it myself, or maybe my lawyer had someone make it for me, or whatever, but the point is that WITH OR WITHOUT the card, I have a legitimate right to play golf there. If a lot of people carry around documentation when it is not required, it makes it more difficult for people without documentation to get access because the public begins to develop the idea that the documentation is required since they have seen others present it. Does that make sense? Like I said, I use the info card because (like you) I have an invisible disability. I am not saying you shouldn't use the tag and say it's a " license " (because technically it is a license, right?). I am only saying that particularly in a public forum like this where people are asking for information, we shouldn't promote the idea that our dogs are " okay because " they are registered, licensed, prescribed or whatever. It is false that they cannot deny you access if your dog has documentation. They can deny you access legitimately if your dog growls, is very dirty or stinky or if it is sniffing all over people, etc. Service dog access cases are handled on a case by case basis and a person whose dog does *not have* a license, registration or prescription can very EASILY win a case of denial of access provided that they really are disabled and the dog really is trained to help them. Does that make sense? Love from > > > > From: <gocatholic@ ...> > > Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs > > @gro ups.com > > Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 12:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No license is required for a service dog. There wasn't even a federal > > registry in existence until a couple of months ago. > > > > Love from > > > > --- In @gro ups.com, stephanie <stephieann2@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they > > cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest > > on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the > > managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not > > bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are > > simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have > > everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health > > issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and > > I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control > > I am all set to go! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 I did not say someone must have done a favor for you. What I did was ask you whether or not someone did. I am sorry if you were offended by my asking you a question. I did not mean to offend. I merely wanted to find out the answer to a question about something you stated. I am only trying to make the point that people who tell the public that licenses, certifications, prescriptions, etc, are required, then that is misinformation and it can be harmful to others in that legitimate service dogs can be denied access based on that misinformation. I've provided a link to this document for the group before. Here it is again. http://www.freewebs.com/ochugs/servicedoglawada.htm Here are some excerpts: " BUSINESSES MAY ASK * Is this a Service Dog? * What tasks does the Service Dog perform? BUSINESSES MAY NOT: * Require special identification for the dog * Ask about the person's disabilitiy * Charge additional fees because of the dog * Refuse admittance, isolate, segregate, or treat this person less favorably than other patrons " " The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government. " So, as you can see, it's a matter of public record that animals do not have to be licensed, certified or even wear an identification (like a vest). NONE of that is necessary, so when people promote the idea that it is necessary, it causes problems for people who do not have those things. -- In , stephanie <stephieann2@...> wrote: > > My doctors do not do anything as a favor to me. It is against the law. NO not only PET dogs need a liscense. Every dog is supposed to be updated on rabies every single time the vaccination expires. It is how it is done in my state. My brother bought the dog for me as I could not afford one from Paws for Claws. It was trained. It stays in a tote and does not get out of the bag at all. My doctor followed the law. he wrote me a prescription..not just anyone can get service dogs. In that fact, anyone could take their pet and get it licensed as one just becaue they want to \take it anywhere. My doctor did as the health dept and as the state of michigan advised him to do. I'm deeply OFFENDED that you claim I do things the wrong way and that someone who doesn't even know me did a favor. It is how it is done here so that I have documentation to back up the fact that she is licensed and trained > > > > From: <gocatholic@...> > Subject: [ ] Re: Service Dogs > > Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 4:08 PM > > > > > > > In that event, all pet dogs are licensed, see? And I had no idea you > were referring to a regular license. I thought we were discussing a > specific license for a service dog, not a regular dog license like you > get for shots. > > Who put " Service Dog " on your dog's license and what process did you > have to go through to get it put on there? Was your dog tested to see > if it is fully trained? Or did whoever made the tag just put it on > there as a favor to you? > > I am not trying to be difficult, I promise. It is just that > misinformation about service animals is a big cross for me (and you, > I'm sure) to bear. I would much rather people understand that > specific licenses are *not required* for service dogs (as the Dept. of > Justice states in its educational publications) rather than make the > public believe my dog is officially licensed " therefore " it's okay. > > My dog's ID/Info card has, I'm guessing, the same weight in a court of > law as your dog's license -- which is none, when it all boils down to > what the federal law says. Although the information on it is true, it > doesn't really mean anything to anyone who really knows the laws about > service dogs. It only helps you (and me) get access by playing on > people's ignorance. > > Here is an analogy. Let's say it's 1968 and I am black and I am going > to go play golf at a predominantly white golf course. I know I have > problems with access because of discrimination, so I carry around a > card in my pocket which I made myself but looks very " official " which > states what the law says about my right to access. Does the card make > me " legitimate " ? No. I made it myself, or maybe my lawyer had > someone make it for me, or whatever, but the point is that WITH OR > WITHOUT the card, I have a legitimate right to play golf there. > > If a lot of people carry around documentation when it is not required, > it makes it more difficult for people without documentation to get > access because the public begins to develop the idea that the > documentation is required since they have seen others present it. > > Does that make sense? > > Like I said, I use the info card because (like you) I have an > invisible disability. I am not saying you shouldn't use the tag and > say it's a " license " (because technically it is a license, right?). I > am only saying that particularly in a public forum like this where > people are asking for information, we shouldn't promote the idea that > our dogs are " okay because " they are registered, licensed, prescribed > or whatever. > > It is false that they cannot deny you access if your dog has > documentation. They can deny you access legitimately if your dog > growls, is very dirty or stinky or if it is sniffing all over people, > etc. > > Service dog access cases are handled on a case by case basis and a > person whose dog does *not have* a license, registration or > prescription can very EASILY win a case of denial of access provided > that they really are disabled and the dog really is trained to help them. > > Does that make sense? > > Love from > > > > > > > > > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they > > > cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest > > > on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the > > > managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not > > > bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are > > > simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have > > > everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health > > > issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and > > > I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control > > > I am all set to go! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Please do not take this personally. The only thing I take issue with is the implication that professional training, certification, licensing, prescriptions, identifications, etc., are required by law. Your dog came from a professional trainer. Fine. Mine came from the animal shelter and she is just as legal as yours is based on that fact. Where the dog comes from is totally irrelevant under the law. My dog is (technically) prescribed by my doctor. My dog has been examined by the state human rights commission and has passed the ADI Public Access Test with 90% proficiency. She is federally registered and wears a service dog vest. She is always leashed. I'm not criticizing you for having documentation, etc. What I have a problem with is the implication that those things are required by law. It's a matter of public education. Love from > > > > > > > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they > > > cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest > > > on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the > > > managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not > > > bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are > > > simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have > > > everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health > > > issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and > > > I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control > > > I am all set to go! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 , People need to look up the individual laws in their own states for the nuances. I have already linked to questions regarding federal law. Here is the link to Kentucky state law, where I live: http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/258%2D00/500.pdf Perhaps if I had noted that in the first place, it would have avoided some confusion. Again, no disrespect intended. Love from > > > > > > > > I've never been asked to leave due to my service dog. By law, they > > > cannot MAKE you leave, if you have her license and the dog has a vest > > > on. It's discrimination. I've had customers " tattle " on me and the > > > managers now tell them its a service dog in a tote who is not > > > bothering you. Again, psychiatric dogs are service dogs but some are > > > simply called " Therapy dogs " as I don't find it relevant to have > > > everyone in the store note that I have a panic disorder. My health > > > issues are none of their business. If the dog is licensed to me, and > > > I carry my prescription for her with that license from Animal Control > > > I am all set to go! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Hi, all. I need to make yet another clarification on the issue of service dogs and what is legally required. I contacted the enforcement officer who handles the complaints I file when I am harassed about my dog. I asked her if it is true that some states require service dogs to be licensed. She told me that some states still have laws like that on the books but they cannot be enforced because the Americans with Disabilities Act takes precedence over them. So, no matter what your state's law says, the ADA takes precedence. Here is the document the enforcement officer recommends all service dog handlers give to business owners: http://www.ada.gov/svcanimb.htm Someone (I think it was ) mentioned that she didn't know small dogs such as those held in a tote could be a service dog. Did you also know that pit bulls can be service dogs? Yes, it's true. Not all pit bulls are vicious. The American Temperament Test Society has tested tens of thousands of dogs and hundreds of breeds including hundreds of pit bulls. Overall, pit bulls have almost the exact same temperament rating as golden retrievers which are commonly used as service dogs. The pit bull rating is 84.3% and the golden retriever rating is 84.2% so the pit bull actually has beaten out the golden retriever by one-tenth of a percentage point. It's all in the training. If you work in a public place, you only have to remember some basic rules if you encounter a patron with a dog. You only have the right to ask two questions: (1) Are you disabled, and (2) Is that a service dog? (The medical information of someone with a service dog is private information.) Beyond that, the dog must be allowed everywhere the public is allowed to go. There are three exceptions (1) an operating room, and that would include any place where minor surgery is performed such as in an emergency room, (2) A place of religious worship or (3) A building owned by a religious organization. The dog has full access to all other public places. The handler has responsibilities to the public, however. You may ask that the dog be removed if the dog defecates/urinates, displays aggressive behavior, damages merchandise, or any other disruptive behavior. I recommend that anyone who might benefit from a service dog look into it, however you must remember that it is not an easy fix. If you have a service dog, you will likely be harassed. I have found that, locally, people who have small dogs that are carried do not have much trouble but people like myself have trouble because the dog is large and because my disabilities are invisible. For more information about the American Temperament Test Society and breed temperament, visit their website at http://atts.org For information about the law visit http://www.ada.gov/animal.htm For information about professionally trained dogs that can assist those disabled by arthritis and other physical disabilities visit http://www.cci.org/site/c.cdKGIRNqEmG/b.3978475/ For resources you can use to train your own service dog, visit Pat 's website at http://www.peaceablepaws.com/ Love from > > , > > People need to look up the individual laws in their own states for the > nuances. > > I have already linked to questions regarding federal law. > > Here is the link to Kentucky state law, where I live: > http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/258%2D00/500.pdf > > Perhaps if I had noted that in the first place, it would have avoided > some confusion. > > Again, no disrespect intended. > > Love from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Thanks for those opinions... and keep 'em coming. Good idea to do an online search; I hadn't thought of that, but it seems that you can find most everything on the computer these days! Aren't they wonderful resources! Thanks again. - Velvet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 They are wonderful! http://autism.wilderwood.org/ They are the cheapest around and only work with training dogs for people with mental/ autism issues. They also have the shortest waiting list, and will start training a dog from the beginning for your childs direct needs Holly From: jlmorris101@... <jlmorris@...>Subject: Service Dogsautism Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 4:52 PM Does anyone in this group have any experience with service dogs for autism? We are thinking that this may be the way to go with Grayson. Any thoughts?Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Jody,I want to get a service dog for too. I wish Jim wouldn't be so hard headed about that because he wants no animals and never has.StacieSent via BlackBerry by AT&TFrom: "jlmorris101@..." Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:52:33 -0000<autism >Subject: Service Dogs Does anyone in this group have any experience with service dogs for autism? We are thinking that this may be the way to go with Grayson. Any thoughts? Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Stacie, my husband is the same way. bummer, Pk Service Dogs Does anyone in this group have any experience with service dogs for autism? We are thinking that this may be the way to go with Grayson. Any thoughts? Jody Finding the best videos just got easier. Try the NEW Truveo.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Just make sure he is not allergic. Michele > > Jody, > I want to get a service dog for too. I wish Jim wouldn't be so hard headed about that because he wants no animals and never has. > Stacie > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T > > Service Dogs > > > Does anyone in this group have any experience with service dogs for autism? We are thinking that this may be the way to go with Grayson. Any thoughts? > > Jody > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I never heard of a service dog for autistic kids/people. What would they be trained to do? Maddie has problems when we are out in public she will walk away with anyone, wander away from group, or if in parking lot/street - just walk in front of a car. In the past, we have had problems where she would leave the house and go walking in the middle of the night, but we haven't had that problem for a long while. Would a dog help in this area? We have a collie and he keeps her in our yard - well we live in the woods so it's not like she would hit the street, but there is a quarry by us and he will "herd" her and start to bark (I can tell the difference in his bark from playing w/ the kids to she is "leaving") if she starts to wander away from the area we have laid out as our yard. The only downfall is he gets terribly car sick and won't go in the car except to go to the groomers and vet. Plus he is so big, he won't fit with all of us (6 of us!). How would you even go about getting a dog like this? Thanks! Rhonda From: pkuenstler@... <pkuenstler@...>Subject: Re: Service Dogsautism Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:23 PM Stacie, my husband is the same way. bummer, Pk Service Dogs Does anyone in this group have any experience with service dogs for autism? We are thinking that this may be the way to go with Grayson. Any thoughts?Jody Finding the best videos just got easier. Try the NEW Truveo.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Hi, Rhonda...my computer just went on the blank so if this is my second response I'm sorry Autism Service Dogs are wonderful....They are VERY expensive as professionals train them....there is a back and forth component as well.....going to the dog, making sure it's a good fit, going back home while they tweak, and then going to pick up, is just one example....I love this question and I have a link that has an overall answer... here it is: http://dogtime.com/dogs-autistic-kids-rachel-friedman-faq.html Also when you are done, if it's something you would like to look into...just google Service Dogs, Autism -- and you'll get loads of links. e From: Rhonda Irvin <rhondarvn@...>autism Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 9:20:42 AMSubject: Re: Service Dogs I never heard of a service dog for autistic kids/people. What would they be trained to do? Maddie has problems when we are out in public she will walk away with anyone, wander away from group, or if in parking lot/street - just walk in front of a car. In the past, we have had problems where she would leave the house and go walking in the middle of the night, but we haven't had that problem for a long while. Would a dog help in this area? We have a collie and he keeps her in our yard - well we live in the woods so it's not like she would hit the street, but there is a quarry by us and he will "herd" her and start to bark (I can tell the difference in his bark from playing w/ the kids to she is "leaving") if she starts to wander away from the area we have laid out as our yard. The only downfall is he gets terribly car sick and won't go in the car except to go to the groomers and vet. Plus he is so big, he won't fit with all of us (6 of us!). How would you even go about getting a dog like this? Thanks! Rhonda From: pkuenstleraol (DOT) com <pkuenstleraol (DOT) com>Subject: Re: Service DogsAutismBehaviorProbl emsgroups (DOT) comDate: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 11:23 PM Stacie, my husband is the same way. bummer, Pk Service Dogs Does anyone in this group have any experience with service dogs for autism? We are thinking that this may be the way to go with Grayson. Any thoughts?Jody Finding the best videos just got easier. Try the NEW Truveo.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Ya, it sure is a bummer because I really think that this would be the best thing for . Stacie In a message dated 7/5/2009 12:34:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, pkuenstler@... writes: Stacie, my husband is the same way. bummer, Pk Service Dogs Does anyone in this group have any experience with service dogs for autism? We are thinking that this may be the way to go with Grayson. Any thoughts?Jody Finding the best videos just got easier. Try the NEW Truveo.com. Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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