Re: Footnote on raw sprouts beta-carotene

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tim,

That's very informative. The dehydrated alfalfa greens sounds interesting. I wonder if that's like spirulina?

I also refound Jim Duke's herb site containing lots of chemical data.

http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/ethnobot.html

One thing I've been wondering about is beta-carotene, since the vit a issue was brought up. Beta-carotene is reportedly good for cancer but not so good for Prostate cancer. Males have a lifetime opportunity of 33% for PCa. PCa is what we will contend with if we live long enough. I'm not so sure having orange pigments in my skin, eg, is a good thing although I do think it's just the body sloughing off stuff it can't use. Sprouts may offer that extra prevention if we can learn how and what to limit such as the Beta-c. I infer from this article that 32000 is a beta-c limit for PCa.

Chemoprevention of bladder cancer.

Kamat AM - Urol Clin North Am - 01-Feb-2002; 29(1): 157-68 NLM Citation ID:22104700 (MEDLINE)

Full Source Title:Urologic Clinics of North America

Author Affiliation:Department of Urology, UT MD Cancer Center, Houston, TX 77030, USA. akamat@...

Abstract:The data presented herein, although highly supportive for a protective role of various nutrients against bladder cancer, are far from definitive. Many authorities question the validity of current recommendations for nutritional chemoprevention against bladder cancer. The reason for the wide variations reported in epidemiologic studies lies in the nature of observational studies. Dietary studies are limited in their conclusions because the protection afforded by the consumption of a particular nutrient may be multifactorial, with different components of the food exerting potential chemopreventive effects. Furthermore, measuring levels of nutrients in the food intake of populations is confounded by factors that might affect these levels and also the incidence of cancer. For example, vitamin A can come from animal or vegetarian sources. Because animal fat has been identified as a potential carcinogen in man, depending on the source of the vitamin, varying levels of protection might be deduced. In addition, chemoprevention studies using dietary supplements are expected to have mild effects, and large studies would be required to confirm statistical significance. Even with agents such as intravesical chemotherapy, only half the studies achieve statistical significance [29]. Prospective randomized trials with a large sample size, longer follow-up, and an extended duration of treatment are needed to clarify the association between micronutrients and cancer protection. With these caveats in mind, several recommendations can be made. Simple measures, such as drinking more fluids (especially water), can have a profound impact on the incidence of bladder cancer. Vitamins are being extensively studied in chemopreventive trials for different cancers. There is strong evidence for a chemoprotective effect of vitamin A in bladder cancer. The authors recommend 32,000 IU/day of vitamin A initially, with lower doses (24,000 IU) for persons less than 50 kg. Because liver toxicity is a possibility with long-term administration, the dose should be decreased to 16,000 IU after 3 years. High doses of beta-carotene should be avoided based on a large clinical trial reporting a 25% increase in the number of cases of prostate cancer and a statistically significant increase in the incidence of lung cancer.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim Tyler <tt2333@...>

Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 4:47 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Footnote on raw sprouts

--- "jwwright" <jwwright@e...> wrote:> Actually, I have a lot of problems with thinking sprouts are > good, mainly I don't have any USDA data for most. > Even SR 15 doesn't have it. I'd like to think the backers > know what they're talking about - I just don't see any data > to support it.There's some nutritional data about sprouts on a page Dean cited:http://www.easygreen.com/articles/nutritional_data.htmlUSDA has data for wheatgrass, cress, alfalfa, mustard, mung beans, kidney beans, navy beans, pinto beans, lentils, peas, radishes, and soy beans.Of course this leaves very much unsaid - since such databases canonly give a hint of the nutrients in natural foods.> I wonder about logical things, like why not just eat the seeds?Well sometimes you can do that as well. I eat both sunflowerseeds and sunlfower greens, for example.There are substantial nutritional differences between a seed and a green plant, though. Seeds often contain much fuel as stored fat - which is burnt off during the germination process. Also seeds often contain a variesy of anti-nutrients, things to prevent them from being eaten before spring arrives - and enzyme inhibitors, that keep the enzymes within the seed inactive until it is ready to grow;these inactivate some of our own digestive enzymes - as well asthose in the seed.Some things are lost during sprouting, and - if you take the process far enough - other things are added from the soil, or synthesized.Many of the seeds I sprout are unpalatable or indigestible on their own. Flax, Buckwheat, Kamut, radish, alfalfa, etc.The choice is between cooking them, grinding them into a paste or sprouting them - and sprouting often seems the most attractiveof these alternatives.If anything I would like to reduce my intake of unsprouted seeds. Too many calories - and a bad omega-6 to omega-3 fat ratio - aretwo of the factors there.> I'm not short of vitamins. How many do I need? RDAs are easy > to come by in ordinary vegetables. When you sprout you just > add a lot of water to the mix although you may remove the > seed hulls, which, BTW, might contain chemicals that kill > cancer cells.If you really think this, there's nothing stopping you from eating them.Sprouts themselves are pretty impressive cancer protectors.Brassica vegetables seem to be the best against cancer overall.However I don't think maky people eat the seeds. They are typically tiny and rather tasteless - though not that hard to chew up. The studies on cancer protection that I'm aware of have been on sprouts or mature plants - e.g.:http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/glioblastoma/integrative/potential_supplements/brassicas/fahey_1997.htmSprouting /does/ add water - but if anything I prefer eating water in plant form to drinking it.

[Guest guest]

--- " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote:

> That's very informative. The dehydrated alfalfa greens

> sounds interesting. I wonder if that's like spirulina?

Probably - many leafy green things certainly look and taste

rather similar when you dry them out and powder tham up.

I've not tried dehydrated alfalfa, though.

> One thing I've been wondering about is beta-carotene, since

> the vit a issue was brought up. Beta-carotene is reportedly

> good for cancer but not so good for Prostate cancer. Males

> have a lifetime opportunity of 33% for PCa. PCa is what we

> will contend with if we live long enough. I'm not so sure

> having orange pigments in my skin, eg, is a good thing

> although I do think it's just the body sloughing off stuff

> it can't use. Sprouts may offer that extra prevention if

> we can learn how and what to limit such as the Beta-c.

> I infer from this article that 32000 is a beta-c limit for PCa.

From the text, that looks like a Vitamin A figure - not a

beta-carotene one.

I put " beta-carotene " " prostate cancer " into Google - and came up

with large numbers of articles relating to its preventative

action in that area :-|

From what I can see, even rather large doses of beta carotene are

generally rather innocuous - and the possibility of too much beta

carotene certainly doesn't seem to be a very serious reason for

avoiding sprouts.

Carotenes in general seem to be rather wonderful compounds.

Overall, I'd like to be consuming more of them - and if I go

orange, I'll pretend it's a tan ;-)