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Re: Will calorie restriction work w/ Type 1 diabetes?

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Welcome " s " (name?): We have a couple of other diabetics in the group and

perhaps they'll pipe up to advise you. In the meantime, you say you're in

good shape, but don't say how much you weigh or how tall you are. Are you

male or female? What is your present diet like? I imagine you try to stay

fit and eat well because of your condition, but we need some specifics.

on 1/18/2003 8:46 AM, s_rudek <s_rudek@...> at s_rudek@...

wrote:

> Hello,

>

> This is my first post and I am new to this group.

>

> I'm considering a calorie restricted diet to improve my odds of a

> longer, healthy life. I believe I could have sufficient discipline if

> I had sufficient reason to believe the calorie restriction would work.

>

> I've had insulin dependent diabetes for 32 years. I'm 47, I've been

> following a vegan diet for 10 years, and my diabetes has always been

> very difficult to control.

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Francesca,

I am 5'10 " and weigh about 165 lbs. Ten years ago, when I intially

went vegan (no animal products), I also restricted fat (less than 10

grams a day) and drank no coffee. I held that diet for probably a

year or two. Through time, though, and mainly because I have access

to great food, I've remained vegan but gotten back to eating fatty

foods and coffee without restriction. I don't count calories and I

never have. That is going to be the most challenging part of this --

the regimentation and organization; not the hunger per se. Anyway,

I'm probably 10-15 lbs " overweight " from " skinny " . In high school I

weighed 135.

But there is NO point in putting myself through this unless I am

likely to derive substantial benefits. Remember, I'm a type 1

diabetic -- by body puts out NO insulin. A type 2 diabetic (adult

onset; often marked by considerable overweight and sedentary) is a

different situation. My blood sugar averages probably 190 mg/dl vs.

a calorie restricted non-diabetic average of probably 60 mg/dl. And

although an insulin pump and calorie counting might lower that safely

to an average of 110 or 120 (and I have a difficult time even

imagining that profound a change), getting below that as an average

would probably be very difficult and very dangerous (it could knock

me unconcious and kill me before I even knew what was happening to

me).

So, the big question is: how important is the super-low blood sugar

average to the beneficial effects?

Thanks for the personal interest! I've thought about trying a

calorie restricted diet for more than 10 years -- this would be a

radical departure from normalcy for me, but most people don't regard

my existing diet as particularly normal.

Regards,

Steve

>

> > Hello,

> >

> > This is my first post and I am new to this group.

> >

> > I'm considering a calorie restricted diet to improve my odds of a

> > longer, healthy life. I believe I could have sufficient

discipline if

> > I had sufficient reason to believe the calorie restriction would

work.

> >

> > I've had insulin dependent diabetes for 32 years. I'm 47, I've

been

> > following a vegan diet for 10 years, and my diabetes has always

been

> > very difficult to control.

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Hi Steve,

Just a question because I have a DM1 friend.

What are your thought on the insulin-pump?

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: s_rudek <s_rudek@...>

Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 12:31 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Will calorie restriction work w/ Type 1 diabetes?

Francesca,I am 5'10" and weigh about 165 lbs. Ten years ago, when I intially went vegan (no animal products), I also restricted fat (less than 10 grams a day) and drank no coffee. I held that diet for probably a year or two. Through time, though, and mainly because I have access to great food, I've remained vegan but gotten back to eating fatty foods and coffee without restriction. I don't count calories and I never have. That is going to be the most challenging part of this -- the regimentation and organization; not the hunger per se. Anyway, I'm probably 10-15 lbs "overweight" from "skinny". In high school I weighed 135.But there is NO point in putting myself through this unless I am likely to derive substantial benefits. Remember, I'm a type 1 diabetic -- by body puts out NO insulin. A type 2 diabetic (adult onset; often marked by considerable overweight and sedentary) is a different situation. My blood sugar averages probably 190 mg/dl vs. a calorie restricted non-diabetic average of probably 60 mg/dl. And although an insulin pump and calorie counting might lower that safely to an average of 110 or 120 (and I have a difficult time even imagining that profound a change), getting below that as an average would probably be very difficult and very dangerous (it could knock me unconcious and kill me before I even knew what was happening to me).So, the big question is: how important is the super-low blood sugar average to the beneficial effects?Thanks for the personal interest! I've thought about trying a calorie restricted diet for more than 10 years -- this would be a radical departure from normalcy for me, but most people don't regard my existing diet as particularly normal.Regards,Steve

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I've not yet tried a modern insulin pump. I tried an " ancient " one

in 1985 and had problems such as the catheter coming out without my

knowledge. I found the old pump very restrictive physically and

psychologically (it made me feel like a machine). However, I've

heard great things about the new ones and it would probably be much

better than my current injection regimen. Before they will allow me

to try a pump, though, I've got to get disciplined in recording my

blood sugars and exact food and injection intakes as, otherwise, the

pumps are apparently too dangerous. Going on a calorie restricted

program would initially dovetail well with what the diabetes

educators want me to do, since either would require me to count

calories carefully. Or, I guess, if I only eat every other day I'll

only have to worry about carefully recording half as many meals. ;-)

BTW, I should probably explain the blood sugar concerns a bit more.

Once you take insulin you have NO CHOICE about consuming calories to

counterbalance the insulin or it will drive your sugar too low.

Also, I think that even with careful counting of calories the

balancing will be difficult for me: my body seems to act differently

every day, requiring different amounts of food, exercise, and insulin

to balance.

In the best case, when you take too much insulin you are forced to

consume " junk " sugar to save yourself; this would conflict with the

calorie restriction regimine, of course. But I -- and many long term

type 1 diabetics -- have another problem: we no longer have normal

physiological hints that our sugar is going low. Before you know it,

you're having a seizure. Anyway, although a pump might reasonably

help me get to an average of 110 mg/dl, it becomes dangerous to

target an average below that, even with calorie counting and the

pump. Current pumps have no glucose sensors to automatically reduce

insulin delivery or warn the user.

Still, even an average 110 sugar would be a good thing for me -- it

just might not get me any of the ideal calorie restricted benefits.

I think I'll *start* down the path of regimenting my calorie intake

and decide on real calorie restrictions later on. I might not get

the benefit of an exceptionally long lifespan, but it stands to

reason I'd at least be likely to live longer than I'm likely to if I

keep on my current path.

Can anyone point me to a post on recommended use of vitamin or other

supplements? I've just ordered Walford's latest books, but it will

be a few weeks at least until they show up.

Also, can anyone recommend specific weighing scales, for food and

body mass, or other useful tools I should consider buying now?

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> Hi Steve,

> Just a question because I have a DM1 friend.

> What are your thought on the insulin-pump?

> . . .

>> different situation. My blood sugar averages probably 190 mg/dl

vs.

>> a calorie restricted non-diabetic average of probably 60 mg/dl.

And

>> although an insulin pump and calorie counting might lower that

safely

>> to an average of 110 or 120 (and I have a difficult time even

>> imagining that profound a change), getting below that as an

average

>> would probably be very difficult and very dangerous (it could

knock

>> me unconcious and kill me before I even knew what was happening

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Steve,

I am not diabetic, but my husband was and you sound about the same size he was. It is not an easy disease with which to live! There were many times when I had to try and get sweetened juice or straight sugar into him because of low blood sugar; fortunately, he didn't fight me when this was necessary.

I think your best bet is having a very well balanced daily plan for eating and eating on a regular schedule. Are you familiar with the Food Exchange Plan for Diabetics? I can't imagine that you are not familiar with it. I encourage you to adapt that to your lifestyle and keep your food intake regular! You may need to add a snack in the morning, one in the afternoon, and one before bedtime to do this.

I sympathize and wish you luck with it!

Ruth

From: " s_rudek <s_rudek@...> " <s_rudek@...>

Reply-

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:32:07 -0000

Subject: [ ] Re: Will calorie restriction work w/ Type 1 diabetes?

I've not yet tried a modern insulin pump. I tried an " ancient " one

in 1985 and had problems such as the catheter coming out without my

knowledge. I found the old pump very restrictive physically and

psychologically (it made me feel like a machine). However, I've

heard great things about the new ones and it would probably be much

better than my current injection regimen. Before they will allow me

to try a pump, though, I've got to get disciplined in recording my

blood sugars and exact food and injection intakes as, otherwise, the

pumps are apparently too dangerous. Going on a calorie restricted

program would initially dovetail well with what the diabetes

educators want me to do, since either would require me to count

calories carefully. Or, I guess, if I only eat every other day I'll

only have to worry about carefully recording half as many meals. ;-)

BTW, I should probably explain the blood sugar concerns a bit more.

Once you take insulin you have NO CHOICE about consuming calories to

counterbalance the insulin or it will drive your sugar too low.

Also, I think that even with careful counting of calories the

balancing will be difficult for me: my body seems to act differently

every day, requiring different amounts of food, exercise, and insulin

to balance.

In the best case, when you take too much insulin you are forced to

consume " junk " sugar to save yourself; this would conflict with the

calorie restriction regimine, of course. But I -- and many long term

type 1 diabetics -- have another problem: we no longer have normal

physiological hints that our sugar is going low. Before you know it,

you're having a seizure. Anyway, although a pump might reasonably

help me get to an average of 110 mg/dl, it becomes dangerous to

target an average below that, even with calorie counting and the

pump. Current pumps have no glucose sensors to automatically reduce

insulin delivery or warn the user.

Still, even an average 110 sugar would be a good thing for me -- it

just might not get me any of the ideal calorie restricted benefits.

I think I'll *start* down the path of regimenting my calorie intake

and decide on real calorie restrictions later on. I might not get

the benefit of an exceptionally long lifespan, but it stands to

reason I'd at least be likely to live longer than I'm likely to if I

keep on my current path.

Can anyone point me to a post on recommended use of vitamin or other

supplements? I've just ordered Walford's latest books, but it will

be a few weeks at least until they show up.

Also, can anyone recommend specific weighing scales, for food and

body mass, or other useful tools I should consider buying now?

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> Hi Steve,

> Just a question because I have a DM1 friend.

> What are your thought on the insulin-pump?

> . . .

>> different situation. My blood sugar averages probably 190 mg/dl

vs.

>> a calorie restricted non-diabetic average of probably 60 mg/dl.

And

>> although an insulin pump and calorie counting might lower that

safely

>> to an average of 110 or 120 (and I have a difficult time even

>> imagining that profound a change), getting below that as an

average

>> would probably be very difficult and very dangerous (it could

knock

>> me unconcious and kill me before I even knew what was happening

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Share on other sites

> I've had insulin dependent diabetes for 32 years. I'm

47, I've been

> following a vegan diet for 10 years, and my diabetes

has always been

Note that your diabetes are not linked to aging, that

is, your diabetic is type I. Your pancreas do not

have beta langerhans cells to make insulin!!

Let me give you a insight:

Calorie restriction working by lowering insulin and

glucose levels and increasing insulin sensitivity. But

this happens in an organism that *has* beta langerhans

cells!

Note that this question is delicate:

1st: That if you are IDDM, then you will need *less*

insulin than a a non CR normal ad-libitum

diabetic, the right dosage that you will need

will depend on a lot of factors including

insulin sensitivity curve, BMI, bioimpedance, age etc...

Consult your phisician before start CR.

2nd: Your cholestol will go low if you do not have a

bigger problem in a CR diet and insulin is token at

right dosages and in the right time.

Perhaps the cholesterol is high because

an inbalance in your organism caused by

gluconeogenesis and cetoacidoses that happens in

an diabetic organism, that is, your organism are

converting aminoacids of your muscles

in glucose in order to get

more fuel available to the remaining cells

and there is a misregulation of

cholesterol syntesis. This is only an hipotesis

of what is happening of course. There are others

to be considered. Please consult your phisician.

I believe that such inbalance in cholesterol

can be correct with

the right dosage of insulin (consult your phisician)

and a good low cal regimen. Note that are bombs in

the market now, that can be put insulin in the right dose

into the organism and

work 24 hours a day so you can safely apply CR. But

start CR *slowly* because you in an more advanced

age.

-- Gandhi.

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