Re: sweet potatoes, easy nutrition. raw foods & vegan

[Guest guest]

Gail,

I browsed Dr. Graham's website.

It doesn't sound like he's really focussed on the same goals I am. Simply put, I want to feel as well as I can while living as long as I can.

The only method that shows scientific evidence of helping me do both is cutting calories while optimizing nutrition.

I am not interested in developing as an outstanding 70 year old athletic, although that is a perfectly worthwhile goal, in my opinion.

What evidence there is about exercise and longevity is that it should be moderatel. Most of the centernarians are moderate exercisers, with bodytypes that naturally result from exercise demanding many repetitions of moderate resistance. A good example is walking (because they have no alternative method. The Abkasians rode horses....)and subsistence gardening. Dance and Tai Chi and other martial arts also. These exercises develop a wiry musculature. In no case would you want to exercise vigorously for a couple of hours before breakfast, then a couple more hours before lunch on a life extension program that fits what information we have now. Again, exercise for the fun of it, or for different goals...running marathons, etc are terrific. They probably don't extend lifespan.

Where vegans, lacto vegetarians, meat eaters, and fish eaters ( on vegetable based diet) were studied, fish eaters lived the longest, lacto's a close second, vegans third and meat eaters a very weak last. Based on this study (remember, this is only one study and should not be considered definitive) calorie restriction combined with an excellent semi veggie diet utilizing fish or dairy would be best, vegan still a good way to go, and meat not so hot.

Now, I don't know for certain that this is true, but the evidence I've been able to find points strongly in that direction. Dr. Graham, in the material I read, offered no substantive evidence othere than some anectdotal information. This is an indication that his program may work well for athletes, but tells us nothing about life extension. In addition, as I sure you know, every life style mentor has specific success stories to tell. BUt that doesn't make their programs optimal.

I, too, admire people with the self-discipline to follow a raw foods diet. I especially admire Walford, and I certainly respect her choice to move toward raw foods. I would also respect your choice to do so, if that's your choise.

I practiced vegan eating for two years. At the end of that time, I wrote to T Colin Cambell about my continued experience of low energy and weakness. He was kind enough to write back to tell me that it takes some people several years to adapt.

As more information became available about Omega 3 fatty acids, I decided to move back to lacto vegetarian and add some salmon, which I did. Widening my choices presented some different challenges, but the weakness left, and has not returned.

So, for me at least, the vegan choice has been made and rejected.

Ed S

----- Original Message -----

From: GAIL MCDONALD

Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 10:17 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] sweet potatoes, easy nutrition. How do you handle hunger?

Ed, Thank you for that information. I will study some of those groups of people to learn more about each of their diets. I admire people who can live the raw food lifestyle. I have tried, but find I am hungry all the time so something like brown rice helps. Anyways, Dr. Doug Graham has a web site and you can get his book there. It is a relatively small, inexpensive book. If you read it, please let me know what you think.

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for your reply - lots to think about. I tend to feel deprived when eating only raw food so I obviously need to either resolve that or go a different route. I am still trying to understand exactly what optimal nutrition means. Again, thanks for taking the time to respond. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Sullivan Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [ ] sweet potatoes, easy nutrition. raw foods & vegan Gail, I browsed Dr. Graham's website. It doesn't sound like he's really focussed on the same goals I am. Simply put, I want to feel as well as I can while living as long as I can. The only method that shows scientific evidence of helping me do both is cutting calories while optimizing nutrition. I am not interested in developing as an outstanding 70 year old athletic, although that is a perfectly worthwhile goal, in my opinion. What evidence there is about exercise and longevity is that it should be moderatel. Most of the centernarians are moderate exercisers, with bodytypes that naturally result from exercise demanding many repetitions of moderate resistance. A good example is walking (because they have no alternative method. The Abkasians rode horses....)and subsistence gardening. Dance and Tai Chi and other martial arts also. These exercises develop a wiry musculature. In no case would you want to exercise vigorously for a couple of hours before breakfast, then a couple more hours before lunch on a life extension program that fits what information we have now. Again, exercise for the fun of it, or for different goals...running marathons, etc are terrific. They probably don't extend lifespan. Where vegans, lacto vegetarians, meat eaters, and fish eaters ( on vegetable based diet) were studied, fish eaters lived the longest, lacto's a close second, vegans third and meat eaters a very weak last. Based on this study (remember, this is only one study and should not be considered definitive) calorie restriction combined with an excellent semi veggie diet utilizing fish or dairy would be best, vegan still a good way to go, and meat not so hot. Now, I don't know for certain that this is true, but the evidence I've been able to find points strongly in that direction. Dr. Graham, in the material I read, offered no substantive evidence othere than some anectdotal information. This is an indication that his program may work well for athletes, but tells us nothing about life extension. In addition, as I sure you know, every life style mentor has specific success stories to tell. BUt that doesn't make their programs optimal. I, too, admire people with the self-discipline to follow a raw foods diet. I especially admire Walford, and I certainly respect her choice to move toward raw foods. I would also respect your choice to do so, if that's your choise. I practiced vegan eating for two years. At the end of that time, I wrote to T Colin Cambell about my continued experience of low energy and weakness. He was kind enough to write back to tell me that it takes some people several years to adapt. As more information became available about Omega 3 fatty acids, I decided to move back to lacto vegetarian and add some salmon, which I did. Widening my choices presented some different challenges, but the weakness left, and has not returned. So, for me at least, the vegan choice has been made and rejected. Ed S ----- Original Message ----- From: GAIL MCDONALD Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [ ] sweet potatoes, easy nutrition. How do you handle hunger? Ed, Thank you for that information. I will study some of those groups of people to learn more about each of their diets. I admire people who can live the raw food lifestyle. I have tried, but find I am hungry all the time so something like brown rice helps. Anyways, Dr. Doug Graham has a web site and you can get his book there. It is a relatively small, inexpensive book. If you read it, please let me know what you think.

[Guest guest]

Gail,

when the cr group switched from the acronoym cran - calorie restriction with adequate nutrition - to cron -calorie restriction with optimal nutrition - it wasn't because anyone absolutely knew what or knows what optimal nutrition was or is. Rather, it was because the discussion within the group and the intent of members of the group (most, not all) was to find out just what optimal nutrition is. The intent was to consume a diet that was optimal. It seemed then, and now, that there would be some health if not actual life extension benefit in consuming an optimal diet with calorie restriction. The animal experiments that led to our grand human experiment were based on adequate nutrition, or what was considered adequate nutrition by ensuring that the lab chow had all of the nutrients that were known at that time to be needed. Since we don't actually know right now exactly what nutrients are needed for human optimal nutrition, there are many sincere and usually delightful discussions among the proponents of various approaches.

Ed S.

----- Original Message -----

From: GAIL MCDONALD

Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:42 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] sweet potatoes, easy nutrition. raw foods & vegan

Thank you so much for your reply - lots to think about. I tend to feel deprived when eating only raw food so I obviously need to either resolve that or go a different route. I am still trying to understand exactly what optimal nutrition means. Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.

----- Original Message -----

From: Ed Sullivan

Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:03 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] sweet potatoes, easy nutrition. raw foods & vegan

Gail,

I browsed Dr. Graham's website.

It doesn't sound like he's really focussed on the same goals I am. Simply put, I want to feel as well as I can while living as long as I can.

The only method that shows scientific evidence of helping me do both is cutting calories while optimizing nutrition.

I am not interested in developing as an outstanding 70 year old athletic, although that is a perfectly worthwhile goal, in my opinion.

What evidence there is about exercise and longevity is that it should be moderatel. Most of the centernarians are moderate exercisers, with bodytypes that naturally result from exercise demanding many repetitions of moderate resistance. A good example is walking (because they have no alternative metho d. The Abkasians rode horses....)and subsistence gardening. Dance and Tai Chi and other martial arts also. These exercises develop a wiry musculature. In no case would you want to exercise vigorously for a couple of hours before breakfast, then a couple more hours before lunch on a life extension program that fits what information we have now. Again, exercise for the fun of it, or for different goals...running marathons, etc are terrific. They probably don't extend lifespan.

Where vegans, lacto vegetarians, meat eaters, and fish eaters ( on vegetable based diet) were studied, fish eaters lived the longest, lacto's a close second, vegans third and meat eaters a very weak last. Based on this study (remember, this is only one study and should not be considered definitive) calorie restriction combined with an excellent semi veggie diet utilizing fish or dairy would be best, vegan still a good way to go, and meat not so hot.

Now, I don't know for certain that this is true, but the evidence I've been able to find points strongly in that direction. Dr. Graham, in the material I read, offered no substantive evidence othere than some anectdotal information. This is an indication that his program may work well for athletes, but tells us nothing about life extension. In addition, as I sure you know, every life style mentor has specific success stories to tell. BUt that doesn't make their programs optimal.

I, too, admire people with the self-discipline to follow a raw foods diet. I especially admire Walford, and I certainly respect her choice to move toward raw foods. I would also respect your choice t o do so, if that's your choise.

I practiced vegan eating for two years. At the end of that time, I wrote to T Colin Cambell about my continued experience of low energy and weakness. He was kind enough to write back to tell me that it takes some people several years to adapt.

As more information became available about Omega 3 fatty acids, I decided to move back to lacto vegetarian and add some salmon, which I did. Widening my choices presented some different challenges, but the weakness left, and has not returned.

So, for me at least, the vegan choice has been made and rejected.

Ed S

----- Original Message -----

From: GAIL MCDONALD

Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 10:17 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] sweet potatoes, easy nutrition. How do you handle hunger?

Ed, Thank you for that information. I will study some of those groups of people to lea rn more about each of their diets. I admire people who can live the raw food lifestyle. I have tried, but find I am hungry all the time so something like brown rice helps. Anyways, Dr. Doug Graham has a web site and you can get his book there. It is a relatively small, inexpensive book. If you read it, please let me know what you think.