Response to CR Society post

[Guest guest]

This is in response to a recent post from Bob Cavanaugh which was forwarded to me from someone on the CR Society board who wished to hear the other side of the story. Those of you in the support group who still belong to both lists will be able to follow this post. For those of you who don't follow the CR Society board, this is merely a rebuttal to a post entitled "CR Support Group Censorship" by Bob Cavanaugh. Bob wrote:

"censorship in the CR community is a very importantisssue"

The CR Society, aka "the main list," has a long history of censorship by intimidation. Greg , Ben Best are but two prominent members who left/were chased off by those who sought to keep the group pure to their own standards of scientific thought. Censorship by intimidation is one of the reasons many of us left the CR Society to form the support group. Newcomers were routinely put down with their simple questions, and folks with no science background were humiliated. This is only one reason why Francesca proposed starting the support group, and at the time, Delaney agreed. Yes, he later changed his mind, but that was long after Francesca's group had acquired many members of its own whom she could not abandon. The CR Society no longer ignores or embarasses "newbies." A change in temperament occurred because of the controversy which ensued following the formation of Franscesca' group. This was a positive for the CR Society, for which that group should be thankful.

"I had the same problem with the FrancescaSkelton Society last October when she censored amessage of mine."

Yes, Bob. You were "censored." I've been censored too by Francesca, and I'm one of the moderators! The CR Support Group is no longer a public board. Francesca will censor THIS message too, unless I beat her to punch and send it on through! I think we've been fairly clear about our moderating, since the days when certain CR Society members took a fancy to spamming us. We have never "spammed" the CR Society, Bob. If it began happening regularly on your list, you'd also take measures to prevent it. The only reasons you're turning this into a big flaming war against Francesca is that you got your feelings hurt when you were moderated. You can't wear short-shorts at the country club, Bob. Get over it.

"Apparently, she wants to keep her membershipignorant of the best CR asset and best support groupon the internet, and indeed, I have encounteredmembers there (off list)who knew nothing about us."

Likewise, there are many members of your group who are ignorant of our existence, I suppose. I wouldn't really know for sure because none of us have trolled around your list to solicit your membership. Some of your members have routinely trolled our list, however. One of your members actually called it spying in an email to a former member of yours who came over to our list after being repeatedly shot down personsally in your chat room for not having a "science background."

"For those new to this group, a former member borrowedthe CRSociety name and started her own CRSocietysupport group in October 2001. She immediatly beganadvertising her group on our list and was constantlydirecting new members to her group. After a period,all she did was advertise her group and wasn'tcontributing dialog in any of the threads here. Ifinally got tired of it and ran her off the list and forced her to drop usage of the CRSociety name."

Yes, as I said before, the support group was started with 's blessing. Yes, she advertised her group on the CR Society board, and yes, made her change the name, and yes, you ran her off. This is why Francesca (and her moderators) are pretty touchy about folks advertising the CR Society on the support list. We weren't permitted to advertise on your list either. Fair play, Bob. We've even had CR Society members deliberately try to stir up hard feelings by slamming the support group and praising the CR Society all the in the same post to our group. (Thanks, Micky. That was really suave.) Recently Warren persists with his flowery advertisements of your upcoming conference to our list. We allowed several announcements of it, no problem. But given the history of our own attempts to advertise on your list being severely squashed, Warren's persistent ads became VERY disconcerting. There are huge horrible hard feelings, Bob. If both sides could sit down face to face and talk it out, and if both sides would apologize, perhaps a new leaf could be turned over. But that isn't what you want, is it? No, you want us to go the hell away!!! You might just get your way, too. Some of us are getting really tired of it.

"Although some might enjoy a moderated list, I for onedo not want my CR information run through FrancescaSkelton's information filter. If she was credentialedin CR research or even qualified as a knowledgeablenutritionist, I might feel otherwise. But her primarysource of information appears to be the WashingtonPost and her background is public relations, and Idon't want any spin-doctor spoon feeding me herversion of what CR ought to be or determine for mewhat I should be allowed to read."

Bob, are you a credentialed CR researcher? I seem to recall that you're a landscaper. Who among you is a credentialed CR researcher? I once asked Warren face-to-face to tell me about Rae's credentials. I simply was curious, given that his opinions are highly revered by all. I thought it was natural to wonder about his background. Warren told me that it didn't matter. He told me "that's 's business." Fine. In any case, Bob, Francesca DOES NOT FILTER science information. She filters spam which emanates from your members (they even admit it in their spam!) and she filters people who persistently advertise the CR Society in a manner that we find offensive, given the history between the two groups.

"A moderatorenforces the code of conduct. A censor deletesinformation."

It doesn't matter. Some lists are private. Some are public. One of the very best lists to which I subscribe was monitored word-for-word until recently by the late Mel Siff. He not only deleted text, he added his own commentary to half the posts! This was fine with me, because I could always quit the group if I didn't like it. My question is, why do so many CR Society members even bother with the support group anymore, since they so openly disagree with our conduct? Why don't you all just go away and leave us in peace? I've grown reluctant to post to "my" own support group because I know some CR Society members are still trolling our list...and spamming us at will.

Many people have left the support list in a huff. That's for the best. We'll leave you alone. Why won't the CR Society leave us alone? You kicked us out. NOW LEAVE US ALONE!!! We're not hurting you. Go ahead and evangelize the world for CR. We're not that enthusiastic. But there's room for all of us on the internet. It would be wonderful we could be one big happy family, but we're just NOT.

Suz