Guest guest Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Hi All, Attached and described below is the abstract of a paper on kefir. The PDF is available. Cheers, Al. Pure cultures for making kefir D. M. Beshkova, E. D. Simova, Z. I. Simov, G. I. Frengova, Z. N. Spasov Food Microbiology Vol. 19, No. 5, October 1, 2002 537-544 Alan Pater, Ph.D.; Faculty of Medicine; Memorial University; St. 's, NF A1B 3V6 Canada; Tel. No.: (709) 777-6488; Fax No.: (709) 777-7010; email: apater@... Food Microbiology Vol. 19, No. 5, October 1, 2002 pp. 529-536 Growth and survival of Shigella sonnei and S. flexneri in minimal processed vegetables packed under equilibrium modified atmosphere and stored at 7°C and 12°C C. F. Bagamboula, M. Uyttendaele*, J. Debevere Abstract The growth and survival of Shigella flexneri and Shigella sonnei at 7°C and 12°C was evaluated in culture media (BHI and LB) and in three minimal processed vegetables (mixed lettuce, grated carrots and chopped bell peppers) packed in optimized EMA packages. In BHI and LB growth was observed at 12°C for Shigella sp. and both species survived at 7°C although it was noted that S. flexneri was more sensitive to temperature reduction. Growth and survival in EMA-packaged vegetables stored at 7°C and 12°C was variable depending upon the type of vegetable mix used. In the mixed lettuce the total aerobic plate count dominated spoilage and Shigella sp. maintained high numbers ([\gt=]105 cfu g-1) throughout the shelf life (7 days). In grated carrots and in chopped bell peppers spoilage was dominated by lactic acid bacteria leading to a pH drop and a gradual die-off of the inoculum after 7 days of storage but low numbers of Shigella sp. may still be present (<102-104 cfu g-1) and in view of the low infective dose of the pathogen they may pose a hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 >>>I sure wish someone in the know about making Kefir lived close by so I could compare. Just finished my 4th batch and the kefir looks watered down with globs of stuff floating on the top and w/in. Could it be some of the grains? Could it be butter? Curds? The grains look all broken. They just look like one big mushy glob (and this is before and after I put it in the blender)! --->del, did you put the grains themselves into the blender? Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 >>>>No, only what I strained from the culture which is the Kefir went in the blender. The " stuff " floating on top of the Kefir looked the same as the grains. Maybe some came through my strainer? I am using a tupperware spaghetti strainer. That's what G.E.M. suggested. ----------->hmmm...that's what I use too. is it still storming there? maybe they *are* really sensitive to weather..? i can't think of anything else...maybe just *time*? mine took 3 or 4 weeks before they stopped separating. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Del, I can't remember if you've tried making w/raw milk yet. If you have then this post won't be any help to you... I use raw goat milk when I can, but when I can't I buy the pasteurized goat milk and it *never* works well for me. In fact, now if I have to use pasteurized goat milk, I only use it to keep my grains fed until I can get the raw milk. I don't attempt to drink it. When I use the raw goat milk, it works well & tastes great. I got my grains from GEM. This leads me to a question for the group. I left my grains in the fridge w/pasteurized goat milk while I was out of town for 8 days. When I got back, the kefir smells spoiled. Will this have hurt my grains? Should I just give them a good rinsing? > I sure wish someone in the know about making Kefir lived close by so > I could compare. Just finished my 4th batch and the kefir looks > watered down with globs of stuff floating on the top and w/in. Could > it be some of the grains? Could it be butter? Curds? > > The grains look all broken. They just look like one big mushy glob > (and this is before and after I put it in the blender)! Same as > what's floating on top of the " Kefir " I made. Smells like sour milk. > I used to see the flower looking grains. I really think somewhere I > went wrong. Did I swirl it or rock it too hard? Not enough, too much? > Maybe it was the weather. Should I keep on? I have started my 5th > batch. This last batch went for about 32 hours. The cap was tight but > the jar was too big. I have no desire to taste it.... > > Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Well...I will continue. It's rainy and cool. Some thunder now and again. Thanks, Del > >>>>No, only what I strained from the culture which is the Kefir went in > the blender. The " stuff " floating on top of the Kefir looked the same > as the grains. Maybe some came through my strainer? I am using a > tupperware spaghetti strainer. That's what G.E.M. suggested. > > ----------->hmmm...that's what I use too. is it still storming there? maybe > they *are* really sensitive to weather..? i can't think of anything > else...maybe just *time*? mine took 3 or 4 weeks before they stopped > separating. > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ > mailto:s.fisher22@v... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Thanks for your input. For the first 2 batches, I used pasturized milk but now I am using raw. This batch didn't separate right away like the last batch. I would love to find some raw goat milk somewhere. Is it as hard to find as cow's milk? I am not satisfied with my source for cow's milk. I had a good source but the cow suddenly dried up and they don't know why. I would like to start a cow share program but I need to find a cow and other people wanting it. Thanks, Del > Del, > I can't remember if you've tried making w/raw milk yet. If you have > then this post won't be any help to you... > > I use raw goat milk when I can, but when I can't I buy the > pasteurized goat milk and it *never* works well for me. In fact, now > if I have to use pasteurized goat milk, I only use it to keep my > grains fed until I can get the raw milk. I don't attempt to drink > it. When I use the raw goat milk, it works well & tastes great. I > got my grains from GEM. > > This leads me to a question for the group. I left my grains in the > fridge w/pasteurized goat milk while I was out of town for 8 days. > When I got back, the kefir smells spoiled. Will this have hurt my > grains? Should I just give them a good rinsing? > > > > > > I sure wish someone in the know about making Kefir lived close by > so > > I could compare. Just finished my 4th batch and the kefir looks > > watered down with globs of stuff floating on the top and w/in. > Could > > it be some of the grains? Could it be butter? Curds? > > > > The grains look all broken. They just look like one big mushy glob > > (and this is before and after I put it in the blender)! Same as > > what's floating on top of the " Kefir " I made. Smells like sour > milk. > > I used to see the flower looking grains. I really think somewhere I > > went wrong. Did I swirl it or rock it too hard? Not enough, too > much? > > Maybe it was the weather. Should I keep on? I have started my 5th > > batch. This last batch went for about 32 hours. The cap was tight > but > > the jar was too big. I have no desire to taste it.... > > > > Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Del, > For the first 2 batches, I used pasturized milk but now I am using > raw. This batch didn't separate right away like the last batch. I > would love to find some raw goat milk somewhere. Is it as hard to > find as cow's milk? I don't know the answer to your question. I suppose it just depends where you are. I wanted goat milk specifically because it's supposed to be easier to digest and that was important to me. Fortunately, I was able to find a source w/out too much trouble even though raw milk is illegal where I live. I think you just start asking around and eventually you'll find a source. (if you have a WAPF chapter, that's a good first place.) In case you hadn't thought of this, just be aware that goat milk is a lot more expensive than cow milk. Mine is $3 a quart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Raw cow's milk is not legal in my state either but I found 2 farms that would sell it to me. I will start looking for goat's milk now that you told me that it is easier to digest. Quite $$$! How often to you swirl/rock your Kefir? I am wondering if I am doing it too much or too little. This question is for all that read this post. Thanks, Del > Del, > > > For the first 2 batches, I used pasturized milk but now I am using > > raw. This batch didn't separate right away like the last batch. I > > would love to find some raw goat milk somewhere. Is it as hard to > > find as cow's milk? > > I don't know the answer to your question. I suppose it just > depends where you are. I wanted goat milk specifically because it's > supposed to be easier to digest and that was important to me. > Fortunately, I was able to find a source w/out too much trouble even > though raw milk is illegal where I live. > > I think you just start asking around and eventually you'll find a > source. (if you have a WAPF chapter, that's a good first place.) > > In case you hadn't thought of this, just be aware that goat milk is a > lot more expensive than cow milk. Mine is $3 a quart. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 I just finished my 5th batch of Kefir (starting the 6th) and it is beginning to look a little better. It fissed when I opened it. Now I am beginning to have more grains than Kefir. It still is very watery looking and now it has a taste! It tasted like vinegar! Don't like it! Del > Raw cow's milk is not legal in my state either but I found 2 farms > that would sell it to me. I will start looking for goat's milk now > that you told me that it is easier to digest. Quite $$$! > > How often to you swirl/rock your Kefir? I am wondering if I am doing > it too much or too little. This question is for all that read this > post. > > Thanks, > > Del > > --- In , " kili94 " <lm324@j...> wrote: > > Del, > > > > > For the first 2 batches, I used pasturized milk but now I am > using > > > raw. This batch didn't separate right away like the last batch. I > > > would love to find some raw goat milk somewhere. Is it as hard to > > > find as cow's milk? > > > > I don't know the answer to your question. I suppose it just > > depends where you are. I wanted goat milk specifically because > it's > > supposed to be easier to digest and that was important to me. > > Fortunately, I was able to find a source w/out too much trouble > even > > though raw milk is illegal where I live. > > > > I think you just start asking around and eventually you'll find a > > source. (if you have a WAPF chapter, that's a good first place.) > > > > In case you hadn't thought of this, just be aware that goat milk is > a > > lot more expensive than cow milk. Mine is $3 a quart. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 Hmm... it's wierd you have a half a cup of grains. Dom only gave me about a tablespoon. I'd think you have way too little milk or too much kefir grains if your grains are outnumbering your milk! I'm currently using about a tablespoon of grains to culture 2 cups of milk, and it cultures fine in 24 hours. The first time I made it and a couple times after that it was as thick or thicker than yogurt. But after I strain it through the spaghetti strainer it's texture changes to more grainy and thinner. Maybe I'll try blending it. After I increased the milk so much, it started culturing fine in 24 hours, but it looked more like a drink than yogurt before I strained it. So I stopped at 1 3/4 cups for 4 days or so, and suddenly yesterday it caught up and came out like yogurt again. So I boosted it up to two cups, and now I'm just going to wait until it catches up each time to boost it up further. My grains aren't really duplicating yet, but Dom says even before they're duplicating, you can have as high as a 50:1 milk:grain ratio, as long as you do it very gradually and " teach " them to culture that amount of milk. Chris In a message dated 5/17/03 10:43:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mushimushi@... writes: > I just finished my 5th batch of Kefir (starting the 6th) and it is > beginning to look a little better. It fissed when I opened it. Now I > am beginning to have more grains than Kefir. It still is very watery > looking and now it has a taste! It tasted like vinegar! Don't like it! " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 Del, I read your other posts. I'm about as much a kefir expert as you are, but to my uneducated opinion, that seems like a *lot* of grains for that much milk, about four times higher than my ratio. And that might have something to do with your kefir tasting like vinegar! Increase your milk ratio, I'd say, and/or get rid of some of those grains. Eat them or give them away. Mine tastes more or less like yogurt, but a little bit different. My texture is somewhat grainy, but it doesn't bother me. Chris In a message dated 5/18/03 2:05:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mushimushi@... writes: > Maybe you missed some of the earlier posts. I started out with about > 1/2 cup grains (maybe less). To that I added 2 cups of milk. I > started using a qt ball jar and last Tues when I started the jar was > just a little over 1/2 full. Each day...24 to 36 hours I have added 2 > cups of the milk to whatever amount of grains is there. Today the jar > is full! So I must have almost 2 cups of grains! I am making sure the > top is tight which I wasn't doing at first. Just how often to you > swirl or rock yours?? I don't want a real strong vinergar taste, I > want a mild taste, like the kefir I have been buying and I want it > smooth and thick. " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 Hi Maybe you missed some of the earlier posts. I started out with about 1/2 cup grains (maybe less). To that I added 2 cups of milk. I started using a qt ball jar and last Tues when I started the jar was just a little over 1/2 full. Each day...24 to 36 hours I have added 2 cups of the milk to whatever amount of grains is there. Today the jar is full! So I must have almost 2 cups of grains! I am making sure the top is tight which I wasn't doing at first. Just how often to you swirl or rock yours?? I don't want a real strong vinergar taste, I want a mild taste, like the kefir I have been buying and I want it smooth and thick. Thanks again for your input, Del P.S. I ordered the Root Canal book by the way, thanks > Hmm... it's wierd you have a half a cup of grains. Dom only gave me about a > tablespoon. I'd think you have way too little milk or too much kefir grains > if your grains are outnumbering your milk! I'm currently using about a > tablespoon of grains to culture 2 cups of milk, and it cultures fine in 24 > hours. > > The first time I made it and a couple times after that it was as thick or > thicker than yogurt. But after I strain it through the spaghetti strainer > it's texture changes to more grainy and thinner. Maybe I'll try blending it. > After I increased the milk so much, it started culturing fine in 24 hours, > but it looked more like a drink than yogurt before I strained it. So I > stopped at 1 3/4 cups for 4 days or so, and suddenly yesterday it caught up > and came out like yogurt again. So I boosted it up to two cups, and now I'm > just going to wait until it catches up each time to boost it up further. > > My grains aren't really duplicating yet, but Dom says even before they're > duplicating, you can have as high as a 50:1 milk:grain ratio, as long as you > do it very gradually and " teach " them to culture that amount of milk. > > Chris > > In a message dated 5/17/03 10:43:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mushimushi@s... writes: > > > I just finished my 5th batch of Kefir (starting the 6th) and it is > > beginning to look a little better. It fissed when I opened it. Now I > > am beginning to have more grains than Kefir. It still is very watery > > looking and now it has a taste! It tasted like vinegar! Don't like it! > > > " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are > to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and > servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " -- Theodore > Roosevelt > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 In a message dated 5/18/03 8:37:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mushimushi@... writes: > I am just following the directions of G.E.M. That's where I got the > grains and it's the only place listed under sources in the N.T. > cookbook. They say after one week I should be able to increase the > milk by a cup. Where did you get your grains? I got them from Dom. GEM gets their grains from Dom. If you have more grains than milk, you can increase your milk and don't have to wait a week. See what others think, I'm sure anyone would agree. Dom suggest's increasing the milk gradually, 5-10% a day or every other day. But if you have that much grain and so little milk, I'm sure you can beef it up a cup now and maybe it might taste a little better! Chris " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 In a message dated 5/18/03 11:34:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mushimushi@... writes: > I didn't know that GEM got their grains from DOM! Why doesn't NT list > DOM in the sources? It makes sense to gradually increase the milk. I > am going to let this batch go on through the night. That will be > about 40 hours total. Tell me about your swirling. How often and are > you careful to do it gently? Do you ever turn it upside down? > Sometimes I have to leave for up to 6 hours and it doesn't get > *rocked*. Mine is starting to look like curds and whey again. I swirl it when I think of it. 6 hours??? are you crazy? Do you get up during your sleep???!!! :-) I let it go without swirling when I sleep, when I'm at work, etc. I swirl it maybe 3 times a day, or 2. Whenever I think of it. I don't lose sleep over it. I swirl and don't shake because I have a metal cover. Dom says it's probably not a problem but that some suggest not letting kefir touch metal. I doubt it matters, but I do it to be on the safe side, because I don't see any advantage of shaking over swirling. Agh... ok, way way way past my bedtime. Good night. chris " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 I am just following the directions of G.E.M. That's where I got the grains and it's the only place listed under sources in the N.T. cookbook. They say after one week I should be able to increase the milk by a cup. Where did you get your grains? Del > Del, > > I read your other posts. I'm about as much a kefir expert as you are, but to > my uneducated opinion, that seems like a *lot* of grains for that much milk, > about four times higher than my ratio. And that might have something to do > with your kefir tasting like vinegar! > > Increase your milk ratio, I'd say, and/or get rid of some of those grains. > Eat them or give them away. > > Mine tastes more or less like yogurt, but a little bit different. My texture > is somewhat grainy, but it doesn't bother me. > > Chris > > In a message dated 5/18/03 2:05:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mushimushi@s... writes: > > > Maybe you missed some of the earlier posts. I started out with about > > 1/2 cup grains (maybe less). To that I added 2 cups of milk. I > > started using a qt ball jar and last Tues when I started the jar was > > just a little over 1/2 full. Each day...24 to 36 hours I have added 2 > > cups of the milk to whatever amount of grains is there. Today the jar > > is full! So I must have almost 2 cups of grains! I am making sure the > > top is tight which I wasn't doing at first. Just how often to you > > swirl or rock yours?? I don't want a real strong vinergar taste, I > > want a mild taste, like the kefir I have been buying and I want it > > smooth and thick. > > > " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are > to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and > servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " -- Theodore > Roosevelt > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 I didn't know that GEM got their grains from DOM! Why doesn't NT list DOM in the sources? It makes sense to gradually increase the milk. I am going to let this batch go on through the night. That will be about 40 hours total. Tell me about your swirling. How often and are you careful to do it gently? Do you ever turn it upside down? Sometimes I have to leave for up to 6 hours and it doesn't get *rocked*. Mine is starting to look like curds and whey again. Del > In a message dated 5/18/03 8:37:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mushimushi@s... writes: > > > I am just following the directions of G.E.M. That's where I got the > > grains and it's the only place listed under sources in the N.T. > > cookbook. They say after one week I should be able to increase the > > milk by a cup. Where did you get your grains? > > I got them from Dom. GEM gets their grains from Dom. If you have more > grains than milk, you can increase your milk and don't have to wait a week. > See what others think, I'm sure anyone would agree. Dom suggest's increasing > the milk gradually, 5-10% a day or every other day. But if you have that > much grain and so little milk, I'm sure you can beef it up a cup now and > maybe it might taste a little better! > > Chris > > " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are > to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and > servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " -- Theodore > Roosevelt > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 :-) I almost lost sleep the first night; since then I have almost forgotten about it. Maybe 3 or 4x a day. Okay I feel better now. I'm on my way to sleepy town. Thanks, Del > In a message dated 5/18/03 11:34:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mushimushi@s... writes: > > > I didn't know that GEM got their grains from DOM! Why doesn't NT list > > DOM in the sources? It makes sense to gradually increase the milk. I > > am going to let this batch go on through the night. That will be > > about 40 hours total. Tell me about your swirling. How often and are > > you careful to do it gently? Do you ever turn it upside down? > > Sometimes I have to leave for up to 6 hours and it doesn't get > > *rocked*. Mine is starting to look like curds and whey again. > > I swirl it when I think of it. 6 hours??? are you crazy? Do you get up > during your sleep???!!! :-) > > I let it go without swirling when I sleep, when I'm at work, etc. I swirl it > maybe 3 times a day, or 2. Whenever I think of it. I don't lose sleep over > it. I swirl and don't shake because I have a metal cover. Dom says it's > probably not a problem but that some suggest not letting kefir touch metal. > I doubt it matters, but I do it to be on the safe side, because I don't see > any advantage of shaking over swirling. > > Agh... ok, way way way past my bedtime. Good night. > > chris > > " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are > to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and > servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " -- Theodore > Roosevelt > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 >>>>>I didn't know that GEM got their grains from DOM! -------->they got their starter grains from him years ago, I believe. I got grains from dom once last year...they never took off though. he sends them dried, and you have to reconstitute them. GEM sends them as fully viable " ready to go " WET grains. Dom's in australia, so the distance would make it difficult to send wet grains to the US, i guess. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Del, > Tell me about your swirling. How often and are > you careful to do it gently? Do you ever turn it upside down? > Sometimes I have to leave for up to 6 hours and it doesn't get > *rocked*. Mine is starting to look like curds and whey again. In a 24 hour period, I gently shake mine maybe 2-3 times. Sometimes I forget to shake, but that doesn't seem to affect it adversely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 you are worrying way too much about your kefir! it's almost impossible to have a failed batch. you don't need to swirl or rock or shake it unless you want to. i swirl mine a little sometimes if i'm picking it up to see how it's doing, but other times i let it sit for however long (12-48 hrs maybe? i don't really keep track.) without touching it. enjoy the variations in texture and sourness! curds are yummy, and if you don't want to use the curds and whey separately, just shake the jar a little. i was thinking the other day that if there was one food i had to pick as my favorite, it would have to be kefir (or a fat filet of eel marinated just right)... Mike On Mon, 19 May 2003, mushimushi12003 wrote: > :-) I almost lost sleep the first night; since then I have almost > forgotten about it. Maybe 3 or 4x a day. Okay I feel better now. I'm > on my way to sleepy town. > > Thanks, > > Del > > > > In a message dated 5/18/03 11:34:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > mushimushi@s... writes: > > > > > I didn't know that GEM got their grains from DOM! Why doesn't NT > list > > > DOM in the sources? It makes sense to gradually increase the > milk. I > > > am going to let this batch go on through the night. That will be > > > about 40 hours total. Tell me about your swirling. How often and > are > > > you careful to do it gently? Do you ever turn it upside down? > > > Sometimes I have to leave for up to 6 hours and it doesn't get > > > *rocked*. Mine is starting to look like curds and whey again. > > > > I swirl it when I think of it. 6 hours??? are you crazy? Do you > get up > > during your sleep???!!! :-) > > > > I let it go without swirling when I sleep, when I'm at work, etc. > I swirl it > > maybe 3 times a day, or 2. Whenever I think of it. I don't lose > sleep over > > it. I swirl and don't shake because I have a metal cover. Dom > says it's > > probably not a problem but that some suggest not letting kefir > touch metal. > > I doubt it matters, but I do it to be on the safe side, because I > don't see > > any advantage of shaking over swirling. > > > > Agh... ok, way way way past my bedtime. Good night. > > > > chris > > > > " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or > that we are > > to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic > and > > servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " -- > Theodore > > Roosevelt > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Del, You are simply using way too much grains, IMO. I'm not an expert by any means, but if I can culture 2 and a half cups with ONE TABLESPOON of kefir grains there is just no way in heck you need a half cup of grains for less milk. Eat some of them, give them away, or use more milk. You're overculturing your kefir and it's no wonder at all it is coming out overly separated and smelling to sour. Chris In a message dated 5/23/03 4:45:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mushimushi@... writes: > I have been unable to post or reply for awhile now due to the fact > that the post or reply was not there! Don't really know just what > happened but finally fixed it, and don't know how I did! LOL! > > Back to kefir.... Last Wed I stopped the culturing of my kefir. At > the end of the last one, I had a qt size jar that was full and only > about a cup was the supposed kefir. The rest looked like curds. I > sorted through the curds with a plastic spoon (being careful not to > distrub the grains). I ended up finding about 1/4-1/2 cup of > something that resembled califlower (much smaller). I am assuming > that is the grains and that is about the same amount I started the > process with a week before. So the grains didn't multiply! I put the > grains with a little storebought kefir and some raw milk into the > fridge for a rest while I regroup. The kefir looked watery with bits > of curds floating in it, smelled awful...I threw it out...did not > desire to taste it! > > This may be a first! A failure at making kefir! According to what > everyone is saying...it can't be this hard but it does take time... > sometimes. I have until Tuesday to start again with the same grains, > assuming I want to use the same grains! " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Mike, I have been unable to post or reply for awhile now due to the fact that the post or reply was not there! Don't really know just what happened but finally fixed it, and don't know how I did! LOL! Back to kefir.... Last Wed I stopped the culturing of my kefir. At the end of the last one, I had a qt size jar that was full and only about a cup was the supposed kefir. The rest looked like curds. I sorted through the curds with a plastic spoon (being careful not to distrub the grains). I ended up finding about 1/4-1/2 cup of something that resembled califlower (much smaller). I am assuming that is the grains and that is about the same amount I started the process with a week before. So the grains didn't multiply! I put the grains with a little storebought kefir and some raw milk into the fridge for a rest while I regroup. The kefir looked watery with bits of curds floating in it, smelled awful...I threw it out...did not desire to taste it! This may be a first! A failure at making kefir! According to what everyone is saying...it can't be this hard but it does take time... sometimes. I have until Tuesday to start again with the same grains, assuming I want to use the same grains! Del > > > :-) I almost lost sleep the first night; since then I have almost > > forgotten about it. Maybe 3 or 4x a day. Okay I feel better now. I'm > > on my way to sleepy town. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Del > > > > --- In , ChrisMasterjohn@a... wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/18/03 11:34:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > > mushimushi@s... writes: > > > > > > > I didn't know that GEM got their grains from DOM! Why doesn't NT > > list > > > > DOM in the sources? It makes sense to gradually increase the > > milk. I > > > > am going to let this batch go on through the night. That will be > > > > about 40 hours total. Tell me about your swirling. How often and > > are > > > > you careful to do it gently? Do you ever turn it upside down? > > > > Sometimes I have to leave for up to 6 hours and it doesn't get > > > > *rocked*. Mine is starting to look like curds and whey again. > > > > > > I swirl it when I think of it. 6 hours??? are you crazy? Do you > > get up > > > during your sleep???!!! :-) > > > > > > I let it go without swirling when I sleep, when I'm at work, etc. > > I swirl it > > > maybe 3 times a day, or 2. Whenever I think of it. I don't lose > > sleep over > > > it. I swirl and don't shake because I have a metal cover. Dom > > says it's > > > probably not a problem but that some suggest not letting kefir > > touch metal. > > > I doubt it matters, but I do it to be on the safe side, because I > > don't see > > > any advantage of shaking over swirling. > > > > > > Agh... ok, way way way past my bedtime. Good night. > > > > > > chris > > > > > > " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or > > that we are > > > to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic > > and > > > servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " -- > > Theodore > > > Roosevelt > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 >>>>You are simply using way too much grains, IMO. I'm not an expert by any means, but if I can culture 2 and a half cups with ONE TABLESPOON of kefir grains there is just no way in heck you need a half cup of grains for less milk. Eat some of them, give them away, or use more milk. You're overculturing your kefir and it's no wonder at all it is coming out overly separated and smelling to sour. -------->ditto, del. your ratio of grains to milk sounds way off. cut back on grains like chris said and you might start enjoying your kefir! Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/ mailto:s.fisher22@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 Del, I would love to help you out and take some of those extra kefir grains off your hands if you are close to the Portland, OR area. Michele > Del, > > You are simply using way too much grains, IMO. I'm not an expert by any > means, but if I can culture 2 and a half cups with ONE TABLESPOON of kefir grains > there is just no way in heck you need a half cup of grains for less milk. Eat > some of them, give them away, or use more milk. You're overculturing your > kefir and it's no wonder at all it is coming out overly separated and smelling > to sour. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 I emailed Michele to tell her that I didn't think she would want these grains as I think the milk I was using was not good. I have since found a new source for raw milk and will have it by Thursday or Fri (mail order). Today is Tues and the last day that those grains can *rest* in the fridge. They have been there a week. Do you guys that have been following this agree that I cannot use them or do you think I should try again with them when I get the new raw milk? Maybe rinse them or something? I value your opinion and thank you for all your help. This is just awesome to be able to talk to other people that are interested in NT. So many good threads going on all the time!! Del > Del, > I would love to help you out and take some of those extra kefir grains off > your hands if you are close to the Portland, OR area. > > Michele > > > > Del, > > > > You are simply using way too much grains, IMO. I'm not an expert by any > > means, but if I can culture 2 and a half cups with ONE TABLESPOON of kefir > grains > > there is just no way in heck you need a half cup of grains for less milk. > Eat > > some of them, give them away, or use more milk. You're overculturing your > > kefir and it's no wonder at all it is coming out overly separated and > smelling > > to sour. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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