Re: Re: Vegans talking about CR...

[Guest guest]

Subject: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

(A vegan loyalist obects > )

> --What kind of enjoyment will I

> achieve in life if I starve myself unduly as I go along? Is that what life

> is meant to be like?

Who can say what life is " meant to be like " ? In the most basic terms,

life is " meant to be like " growing, procreating, and dying. We ourselves

began to go off autopilot, and decide for ourselves what life is meant to

be like, some thousands of years ago.

>Is that how our bodies are meant to be treated?

You're the boss, not god or society, no matter what " they " tell

you.

> But what is the virtue of being

> miserably hungry? ..............

A few hundred years ago, it was possible to find great virtue in

being hungry. ( I mean back in medieval Catholic Europe. )

Some people still believe you can convert private suffering for

good of all. So the answer is: " It depends where you are " .

Sorry. Statements about what we're " supposed to do " get my

ire up.

Hue

[Guest guest]

Hi Eddie and Hue: this is an interesting topic. I for one get great

satisfaction out of taking control of my health. Naturally, one has to be

careful not to go off the deep end and wind up with an eating disorder

(which as Eddie says has been discussed before) ; I acknowledge as does

Eddie that some cronies proabably go too far but most of us are probably

more moderate simply because it's too difficult to go overboard. I wonder

where their information about us comes from?

on 5/19/2003 5:30 AM, Hue at kargo_cult@... wrote:

>> But what is the virtue of being

>> miserably hungry? ..............

>

> A few hundred years ago, it was possible to find great virtue in

> being hungry. ( I mean back in medieval Catholic Europe. )

> Some people still believe you can convert private suffering for

> good of all. So the answer is: " It depends where you are " .

>

> Sorry. S

[Guest guest]

for an attack on Canola oil see:

http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

this one is new to me, it is making the rounds at my mom's church.

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

Gee, if it's on the internet it must be true :-)....

While Canola might be questioned as it is an " engineered " food product (from

rapeseed oil), the final product looks pretty good. This warning sounds like

a classic Hoax....

However their advice to switch to olive oil is only likely to hurt your

pocketbook...

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Dennis De Jarnette [mailto:positivedennis@...]

Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:24 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

for an attack on Canola oil see:

http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

this one is new to me, it is making the rounds at my mom's church.

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

Apparently the main advantage is the superior amount of Omega 3 in Canola

over Olive oil.

Thanks for the posts on this

Positive Dennis

john roberts wrote:

Gee,

if it's on the internet it must be true :-)....

While Canola might be questioned as it is an "engineered" food product (from

rapeseed oil), the final product looks pretty good. This warning sounds

like

a classic Hoax....

However their advice to switch to olive oil is only likely to hurt your

pocketbook...

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Dennis De Jarnette [mailto:positivedennis@...]

Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:24 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

for an attack on Canola oil see:

http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

this one is new to me, it is making the rounds at my mom's church.

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

obviously some of the anti-canola stuff in circulation is bunk, but there

are still some serious problems with canola oil:

1) counteracts vit E

2) omega-3's turn rancid/oxidized in processing

3) omega-3's become hydrogenated in processing

4) effects on blood platelets

5) not enough saturated fats

6) no nutrients

the best article i've seen on canola is:

http://westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/conola.html

I would have to question the sanity of anyone who would use canola oil

after even just being apprised of the vit E problem...

It is impossible to do ON using canola oil, just like it's impossible to

do ON using white sugar. Those calories can always be replaced with

calories from food with even small amounts of nutrients in them to

increase nutrient-density. Similar remarks hold for most processed

vegetable oils, although canola seems to have its own special harms aside

from a simple lack of nutritional value.

better to get your fats from real foods than any processed fat, although i

guess coconut oil, butter oil, lard, olive oil, and fish oils can still be

pretty excellent foods depending on the source and method of processing.

mike parker

On Mon,

19 May 2003, Dennis De Jarnette wrote:

> Apparently the main advantage is the superior amount of Omega 3 in

> Canola over Olive oil.

>

> Thanks for the posts on this

>

> Positive Dennis

>

> john roberts wrote:

>

> > Gee, if it's on the internet it must be true :-)....

> >

> > While Canola might be questioned as it is an " engineered " food product

> > (from

> > rapeseed oil), the final product looks pretty good. This warning

> > sounds like

> > a classic Hoax....

> >

> > However their advice to switch to olive oil is only likely to hurt your

> > pocketbook...

> >

> > JR

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Dennis De Jarnette [mailto:positivedennis@...]

> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:24 PM

> >

> > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

> >

> >

> > for an attack on Canola oil see:

> >

> > http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

> >

> > this one is new to me, it is making the rounds at my mom's church.

> >

> > Positive Dennis

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 19 May 2003, Kyberneticist wrote:

> http://www.cansa.co.za/facts_myths_diet_canola.asp

> This site linked off of the Urban Legends page seems

> to cast skepticism on the blood platelets claim.

> No idea of the others, but this seems to be definitely

> one of those claims/counter-claims situations.

> And... not *enough* saturated fats?

> *confused*

read the article i mentioned, which gives references for the blood

platelets stuff. as far as saturated fats, read that article and other

articles on that site, and your confusion will... multiply painfully (and then

abate)...

mike parker

[Guest guest]

lard? butter? no thanks unless you're on the Atkins diet.

on 5/20/2003 1:24 AM, Anton at bwp@... wrote:

> better to get your fats from real foods than any processed fat, although i

> guess coconut oil, butter oil, lard, olive oil, and fish oils can still be

> pretty excellent foods depending on the source and method of processing.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Francesca Skelton wrote:

> lard? butter? no thanks unless you're on the Atkins diet.

or unless you simply like eating nutrient-dense (vit D anyone? CLA?)

natural foods (with non-rancid fats) that have sustained healthy

populations for thousands of years...

mike parker

[Guest guest]

But grain fed beef, which is a modern idea, changes the composition of the

fats, increasing saturated and reducing the others and increasing the % of

fat in the product,

I am open to the idea that the saturated fat fear is overstated, but the

idea that saturated fat is really a superior fat, I doubt it,

My confusion did not abate as you promised,

Positive Dennis

Anton wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Francesca Skelton wrote:

> lard? butter? no thanks unless you're on the Atkins diet.

or unless you simply like eating nutrient-dense (vit D anyone? CLA?)

natural foods (with non-rancid fats) that have sustained healthy

populations for thousands of years...

mike parker

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Dennis De Jarnette wrote:

> But grain fed beef, which is a modern idea, changes the composition of

> the fats, increasing saturated and reducing the others and increasing

> the % of fat in the product,

>

> I am open to the idea that the saturated fat fear is overstated, but

> the idea that saturated fat is really a superior fat, I doubt it,

>

> My confusion did not abate as you promised,

>

> Positive Dennis

well, keep reading that site and the references it gives; worldviews are

not often shattered in one day alone. it took me many months.

one thing that you probably already have been convinced of is that lauric

acid, the 12-chain saturated fatty acid of coconut, mother's milk, and

butter, is a superior fat. i don't think there's much controversy there.

by the way, i think grain-feeding increases omega-6's too. small amounts

of grains close to slaughter apparently mimics certain seasonal variations

in wild animals' diets, and traditional cultures apparently were tuned to

these things and waited until animals were at their fattiest before

killing them. also, certain sections (backslab?) of animals have always

had a higher percentage of saturated fat than other parts, and these are

the ones that were selectively eaten in traditional cultures. the

highly saturated fat around the kidneys is one of the most prized foods i

believe.

mike parker

[Guest guest]

here's an excellent article with info on the fat content of wild animals

eaten by native americans:

http://westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Anton wrote:

>

> On Tue, 20 May 2003, Dennis De Jarnette wrote:

>

> > But grain fed beef, which is a modern idea, changes the composition of

> > the fats, increasing saturated and reducing the others and increasing

> > the % of fat in the product,

> >

> > I am open to the idea that the saturated fat fear is overstated, but

> > the idea that saturated fat is really a superior fat, I doubt it,

> >

> > My confusion did not abate as you promised,

> >

> > Positive Dennis

>

>

> well, keep reading that site and the references it gives; worldviews are

> not often shattered in one day alone. it took me many months.

>

> one thing that you probably already have been convinced of is that lauric

> acid, the 12-chain saturated fatty acid of coconut, mother's milk, and

> butter, is a superior fat. i don't think there's much controversy there.

>

> by the way, i think grain-feeding increases omega-6's too. small amounts

> of grains close to slaughter apparently mimics certain seasonal variations

> in wild animals' diets, and traditional cultures apparently were tuned to

> these things and waited until animals were at their fattiest before

> killing them. also, certain sections (backslab?) of animals have always

> had a higher percentage of saturated fat than other parts, and these are

> the ones that were selectively eaten in traditional cultures. the

> highly saturated fat around the kidneys is one of the most prized foods i

> believe.

>

> mike parker

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Anton wrote:

>

>

> one thing that you probably already have been convinced of is that lauric

> acid, the 12-chain saturated fatty acid of coconut, mother's milk, and

> butter, is a superior fat. i don't think there's much controversy there.

actually this is very controversial.

positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

there are ample studies proving the immune benefit of lauric acid, going

back several decades i believe, and the more efficient metabolic pathway

of medium-chain fatty acids is also well-studied and documented. i've

never heard of any controversy about this.

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Dennis De Jarnette wrote:

>

>

> Anton wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > one thing that you probably already have been convinced of is that lauric

> > acid, the 12-chain saturated fatty acid of coconut, mother's milk, and

> > butter, is a superior fat. i don't think there's much controversy there.

>

> actually this is very controversial.

>

> positive Dennis

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I note that the Okinawans use Canola oil primarily, and so far they're

living longer than we are. Don't seem to be having trouble with their

Canola.

Ed S

----- Original Message -----

From: " Anton " <bwp@...>

< >

Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 10:24 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

> obviously some of the anti-canola stuff in circulation is bunk, but there

> are still some serious problems with canola oil:

> 1) counteracts vit E

> 2) omega-3's turn rancid/oxidized in processing

> 3) omega-3's become hydrogenated in processing

> 4) effects on blood platelets

> 5) not enough saturated fats

> 6) no nutrients

> the best article i've seen on canola is:

> http://westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/conola.html

>

> I would have to question the sanity of anyone who would use canola oil

> after even just being apprised of the vit E problem...

>

> It is impossible to do ON using canola oil, just like it's impossible to

> do ON using white sugar. Those calories can always be replaced with

> calories from food with even small amounts of nutrients in them to

> increase nutrient-density. Similar remarks hold for most processed

> vegetable oils, although canola seems to have its own special harms aside

> from a simple lack of nutritional value.

>

> better to get your fats from real foods than any processed fat, although i

> guess coconut oil, butter oil, lard, olive oil, and fish oils can still be

> pretty excellent foods depending on the source and method of processing.

>

> mike parker

>

> On Mon,

> 19 May 2003, Dennis De Jarnette wrote:

>

> > Apparently the main advantage is the superior amount of Omega 3 in

> > Canola over Olive oil.

> >

> > Thanks for the posts on this

> >

> > Positive Dennis

> >

> > john roberts wrote:

> >

> > > Gee, if it's on the internet it must be true :-)....

> > >

> > > While Canola might be questioned as it is an " engineered " food product

> > > (from

> > > rapeseed oil), the final product looks pretty good. This warning

> > > sounds like

> > > a classic Hoax....

> > >

> > > However their advice to switch to olive oil is only likely to hurt

your

> > > pocketbook...

> > >

> > > JR

> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Dennis De Jarnette [mailto:positivedennis@...]

> > > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:24 PM

> > >

> > > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

> > >

> > >

> > > for an attack on Canola oil see:

> > >

> > > http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

> > >

> > > this one is new to me, it is making the rounds at my mom's church.

> > >

> > > Positive Dennis

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

????? I thought the Okinawans used lard. canola oil didn't even exist

before the 20th century, so I'm mystified by this statement.

mike parker

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Ed Sullivan wrote:

> I note that the Okinawans use Canola oil primarily, and so far they're

> living longer than we are. Don't seem to be having trouble with their

> Canola.

>

> Ed S

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Anton " <bwp@...>

> < >

> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 10:24 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

>

>

> > obviously some of the anti-canola stuff in circulation is bunk, but there

> > are still some serious problems with canola oil:

> > 1) counteracts vit E

> > 2) omega-3's turn rancid/oxidized in processing

> > 3) omega-3's become hydrogenated in processing

> > 4) effects on blood platelets

> > 5) not enough saturated fats

> > 6) no nutrients

> > the best article i've seen on canola is:

> > http://westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/conola.html

> >

> > I would have to question the sanity of anyone who would use canola oil

> > after even just being apprised of the vit E problem...

> >

> > It is impossible to do ON using canola oil, just like it's impossible to

> > do ON using white sugar. Those calories can always be replaced with

> > calories from food with even small amounts of nutrients in them to

> > increase nutrient-density. Similar remarks hold for most processed

> > vegetable oils, although canola seems to have its own special harms aside

> > from a simple lack of nutritional value.

> >

> > better to get your fats from real foods than any processed fat, although i

> > guess coconut oil, butter oil, lard, olive oil, and fish oils can still be

> > pretty excellent foods depending on the source and method of processing.

> >

> > mike parker

> >

> > On Mon,

> > 19 May 2003, Dennis De Jarnette wrote:

> >

> > > Apparently the main advantage is the superior amount of Omega 3 in

> > > Canola over Olive oil.

> > >

> > > Thanks for the posts on this

> > >

> > > Positive Dennis

> > >

> > > john roberts wrote:

> > >

> > > > Gee, if it's on the internet it must be true :-)....

> > > >

> > > > While Canola might be questioned as it is an " engineered " food product

> > > > (from

> > > > rapeseed oil), the final product looks pretty good. This warning

> > > > sounds like

> > > > a classic Hoax....

> > > >

> > > > However their advice to switch to olive oil is only likely to hurt

> your

> > > > pocketbook...

> > > >

> > > > JR

> > > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: Dennis De Jarnette [mailto:positivedennis@...]

> > > > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:24 PM

> > > >

> > > > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > for an attack on Canola oil see:

> > > >

> > > > http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

> > > >

> > > > this one is new to me, it is making the rounds at my mom's church.

> > > >

> > > > Positive Dennis

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Canola oil has been used in India or so say some of the web sites, but of

course hat does not make it right, it is probably a different variety of

rape seed.

Positive dennis

Anton wrote:

?????

I thought the Okinawans used lard. canola oil didn't even exist

before the 20th century, so I'm mystified by this statement.

mike parker

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Ed Sullivan wrote:

> I note that the Okinawans use Canola oil primarily, and so far they're

> living longer than we are. Don't seem to be having trouble with their

> Canola.

>

> Ed S

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Anton " <bwp@...>

> < >

> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 10:24 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about CR...

>

>

> > obviously some of the anti-canola stuff in circulation is bunk,

but there

> > are still some serious problems with canola oil:

> > 1) counteracts vit E

> > 2) omega-3's turn rancid/oxidized in processing

> > 3) omega-3's become hydrogenated in processing

> > 4) effects on blood platelets

> > 5) not enough saturated fats

> > 6) no nutrients

> > the best article i've seen on canola is:

> > http://westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/conola.html

> >

> > I would have to question the sanity of anyone who would use canola

oil

> > after even just being apprised of the vit E problem...

> >

> > It is impossible to do ON using canola oil, just like it's impossible

to

> > do ON using white sugar. Those calories can always be replaced

with

> > calories from food with even small amounts of nutrients in them

to

> > increase nutrient-density. Similar remarks hold for most processed

> > vegetable oils, although canola seems to have its own special

harms aside

> > from a simple lack of nutritional value.

> >

> > better to get your fats from real foods than any processed fat,

although i

> > guess coconut oil, butter oil, lard, olive oil, and fish oils

can still be

> > pretty excellent foods depending on the source and method of processing.

> >

> > mike parker

> >

> > On Mon,

> > 19 May 2003, Dennis De Jarnette wrote:

> >

> > > Apparently the main advantage is the superior amount of Omega

3 in

> > > Canola over Olive oil.

> > >

> > > Thanks for the posts on this

> > >

> > > Positive Dennis

> > >

> > > john roberts wrote:

> > >

> > > > Gee, if it's on the internet it must be true :-)....

> > > >

> > > > While Canola might be questioned as it is an "engineered"

food product

> > > > (from

> > > > rapeseed oil), the final product looks pretty good.

This warning

> > > > sounds like

> > > > a classic Hoax....

> > > >

> > > > However their advice to switch to olive oil is only

likely to hurt

> your

> > > > pocketbook...

> > > >

> > > > JR

> > > >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > > > From: Dennis De Jarnette [mailto:positivedennis@...]

> > > > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:24 PM

> > > >

> > > > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Vegans talking about

CR...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > for an attack on Canola oil see:

> > > >

> > > > http://www.karinya.com/canola.htm

> > > >

> > > > this one is new to me, it is making the rounds at my

mom's church.

> > > >

> > > > Positive Dennis

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 21 May 2003, Dennis De Jarnette wrote:

> Canola oil has been used in India or so say some of the web sites, but

> of course hat does not make it right, it is probably a different variety

> of rape seed.

>

> Positive dennis

the rape seed oil used traditionally in India and elsewhere is a different

substance than canola oil. For some history and facts on this, read

http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/conola.html

Mike