Re: 's letter and 's answer

[Guest guest]

Welcome . I hope that you will find and make some good friends at this

site. I wish you a life of moderation and a healthy life style.

Mike, thank you for the web site on raw milk. I will be contacting the Nuns

on Shaw Is. in Washington to see what it would take to get raw milk from

their cows. They are close, but since it is over water access is limited.

I have given up drinking the non-fat milk simply because I prefer the one or

two percent much more. Does the amount of fat in the product have anything

to do with the absorption of calcium from milk? I'm thinking for healthy

bones; convince me I need whole milk.

I used to get whole raw milk from Guernsey cows in California. It was a

small herd taken care of by a gentle, loving couple so I never had questions

about the milk. Their whole procedure was open to for you to watch.

As I always have had and continue to have a variety of fruits and vegetables

in my diet I hope that will help with the calcium, too. The more colorful

the veggie the better, I feel.

Ta-ta. - Ruth

[Guest guest]

Wow, thank you very much for the welcomes and the informative replies,

folks! I've been perusing this site and the archives in the CR society

site and I've learned so much already! Even people who aren't

attempting caloric restriction would definitely benefit from the

health information here.

Hi Mike,

I asked about supplementation because I notice that many people trying

to lengthen their lifespan opt to take a great deal of supplements

daily. I'm not quite sure what to think about supplements, but I do

feel a multivitamin is good insurance (and little bad can come of it).

I don't believe I can get the RDA of calcium simply from foods. I eat

about 3 servings of dark greens a day (about 13 servings of vegetables

a day) only. I'm trying to up that number, but I'm still getting used

to this change in diet. My tongue's been saturated with unhealthy fats

and sugars for so long it's been difficult adjusting, although it's

getting easier. On top of that I aim for ¼ cup of nuts a day and 1-2

servings of dairy (skim milk, yogurt, maybe some cheese). I'll try

eating fish bones as you suggest, that would probably be a healthy

idea (thanks for the suggestion). Are you sure this is enough? Could

some extra calcium do any harm? I've never heard of supplementing with

magnesium except after arduous exercise, should I stick to doing that?

I find your mention of fat being the healthiest part of milk very

interesting…I always believed it was quite the contrary. Isn't the fat

in milk saturated? I've been concerned about being commercial milk,

but unfortunately I have no alternative. Is powdered skim milk a good

substitute? Is yogurt OK? I find milk useful in several recipes so it

would be unfortunate to have to do away with drinking milk.

I've read a lot about soy. The consensus I came too was that soy is

healthy unless eaten excessively. I know it's had a lot of bad press

(along with meat, fish, carrots, grains, milk and almost everything

else it seems!) but overall I think it's still a worthwhile part of

anyone's diet…even for men. Soy milk has quite a bit of protein,

calcium and various other micronutrients and is fairly low in

calories. It's useful in recipes also… so now once again I'm torn

about what to do!

Concerning nuts, the main reason I was asking is because I really

enjoy them! I figure 2.5 tbsp of flaxseeds is almost enough omega 3

for the day. But since I don't eat any unhealthy fats (or try not too)

or meats or other junk I think not eating nuts would set me up for an

omega-6 deficiency. I know it's not a problem for the average person

who will get plenty of omega-6 from vegetable oils and such, but it

might be a problem in my diet. It'd be nice to be able to get the best

of both worlds. I definitely agree with you about fish though, I try

to include a lot of fish (especially salmon) in my diet.

" By the way, for nuts, soaking/sprouting raw nuts is the way to go, to

neutralize the antinutrients. Works great for almonds and peanuts (and

other seeds and legumes). "

What are anti-nutrients? I've heard this mentioned before but I don't

know what it refers to.

Francesca,

Hi, thanks for the welcome. I haven't attempted CR yet, so I guess I

don't get that distinction. As of now I'm simply an ONie. :-)

At what age would you recommend getting into CR?

I agree with you when it comes to milk and soy… I've done a lot of

reading and that's the conclusion I've come to as well. If I listened

to everything out there, I don't think I'd be eating or drinking

anything at all! That isn't to say all the stuff out there is wrong,

just that can all get quite confusing.

" If I may make an observation about your post: you seem preoccupied with

food and not putting so much as a " crumb " of anything bad in your mouth. I

would recommend you relax or you'll drive yourself crazy or worse yet

into a

food-related mental illness. It has happened to a few cronies. "

Thanks for the heads up. Since I'm not on CR yet I do allow myself

several treats (honey, maple sugar, banana bread, butter, etc). On

social occasions I won't deprive myself, I'll just try to make the

best of the situation. My goal is simply to adopt a healthy lifestyle

(within reason) for the long term. If I try CR I think I'll probably

try a mild version of it.

Hi Dennis,

" But I agree with him about skim milk. Too little fat in the diet

interferes with the absorption of some vitamins. "

Oh, I get plenty of fats from Olive oil, flaxseeds, fish, eggs, canola

oil, the occasional meat and from nuts.

" I use 1% and soy milk myself. "

Oddly, I actually prefer the taste of skim milk!

Ruth,

Thanks for the kind welcome. This looks like a nice place; I think

I'll definitely stick around.

Since everyone's been so helpful I have a 2 more quick questions:

Does anyone use guar gum or micronized cellulose? Is it useful in

reducing hunger? Is it sold in stores and if not…where can I get some?

Does anyone here plan their meals in forehand? During the school year

I may be quite busy so it would be nice to have several fixed CRON

meals for the week that I could prepare during the summer. I found the

recipes like those by Sherm (fruit salad, megamuffins) very exciting

and I plan on trying them shortly. Seems like brilliant ideas. Any

healthy recipes that can be kept a long time would be most helpful to

me. (Maybe this has been done before, if so; a link would be a great

help)

Cheers guys,

-

[Guest guest]

Francesca,

Thanks for the links and for the kind words. I'll definitely look into

guar gum; I found a chocolate pudding recipe that looks great!

I also wanted to ask; do you guys use any artificial sweeteners, and

if so, which ones? I use stevia, sucaryl and twin sugar fairly often

(maybe once a day or when baking). Would this be ok or would it simply

keep my sugar cravings alive? My goal is to eventually wean myself off

all sweeteners and use only dried fruits for flavour.

Hi jwwright,

" I wonder why I can't just eat a pill, it they're going to " fortify "

soy milk. "

I've thought this same thing myself. The only reasonable suggestion I

have is that perhaps the calcium is better absorbed in the presence of

certain micro/macronutrients. But then again, I could just take a

calcium pill with dinner, which is often what I do.

,

I thought this excerpt you quoted was very interesting:

" For calcium to be effectively incorporated into the skeletal

structure,at least 50 percent of the dietary fats should be saturated

[38]. "

Do you personally get 50% of your dietary fats from saturated sources?

I only get about 20% of my fats from saturated sources (mainly from

sources where saturated fats are minimal such as olive oil, canola

oil, avocadoes) and some butter and meat. Would you suggest I get more

saturated fats?

Btw, I'm curious whether canola oil is a good source of

mono-unsaturated fats. I try to get about 10% of my daily calories

from mono-unsaturated fats but olive oil and avocadoes can get quite

tiresome. Anyone else have this quandary?

Another quick question (I assume it's okay to ask questions within the

same thread or should I then start a new thread?): is V8 an acceptable

CRON beverage? Are the " two servings of vegetables " worth the ~80

calories or so?

Cheers!

-Zulu

[Guest guest]

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> Hi ,

> Just a logic check - I looked up Enfamil AR, and it's about 50% sat

fat. However, pediatricians are recommending switching to 1 % fat or

skim milk at 1 year.

Well, that's a bit like pointing out that there are doctors who

recommend taking cholesterol-lowering drugs. I would say both cases

are borderline malpractice.

Mike

[Guest guest]

" Absolutely yes, it doesn't sound like your getting enough saturated

fats. I would do some reading on the WAPF site about this. "

Forgive me but what is the link to the WAPF site? To be honest, I see

little to no benefit from purposely consuming saturated fats. They're

not essential (as opposed too polyunsaturated fats) and they don't

contain the many benefits of monounsaturated fats. I believe it's very

possible to live extremely healthily without ever touching any

saturated fats. Then again, I may well be wrong...this is the

conclusion I've come too for the time being. Then again, I'll admit to

changing my mind fairly often on these matters.

" There's was a thread on canola recently on this list. I thought in a

previous post you said you are wise enough to avoid vegetable oils. I

would strongly advise against consuming canola oil, although others on

this list have no qualms about nutritionally worthless processed foods

like this. "

I avoid most vegetable oils except canola (which I use quite

sparingly) and olive oil. They're usually full of omega-6 EFAs which I

don't need more off.

" The best article I've come across on canola is

http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/conola.html You can get

plenty of MUFAs from other sources besides olive oil and avocadoes

without resorting to garbage like canola oil. For example, almonds

and eel are very high in MUFA. "

I'll have a look at eels; thanks for the suggestion. As for the

article, the problem is I find it inordinately biased. Such articles

can be found about milk, grains, meat, tofu, carrots, fish and

virtually every other food in existance.

" Keep in mind the best source of olive oil is... olives. "

Good point, I'll try to incorporate those slowly if my palate allows it.

" If you are too busy one day to eat fresh, quality food prepared at

home, then it's better to just not eat at all. Think of it as

practical way of doing mini-fasts once in a while. "

Perhaps I'll try that down the road. I'm not currently practicing CR,

but when I do this would be a good idea.

, would you mind elaborating on your general eating/health

ideas? I'm sure I'd learn quite a bit from your approach although I

have the feeling I might disagree in certain areas or lack the

motivation to follow such a plan. Would be interesting though.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi again ,

You've made me re-consider the need for calcium supplementation. I'm

not sure what I'll do, but I probably won't take it on most days. For

now I'm keeping the multivitamin though. I'm curious; how much calcium

would I get from eating the bones in canned salmon? Your explanation

of the RDA was insightful, btw.

Maybe you're right and I should add more meat to my diet. I've

switched almost exclusively switched to fish/soy products, but maybe

I'll reintroduce most meats. Are there any meats you generally

recommend? I used to eat quite a bit of calf liver as I believe it was

chock full of nutrients...

" You really really run NO RISK of too little omega-6. Just do the

math and you'll see. "

What math? The ratio of Omega 6: Omega 3 should be about 2:1 or 1:1.

If I eat no nuts or vegetable oils I won't be getting any Omega 6, or

barely any, and that's not healthy. There is such a thing as omega-6

defficiency; it just isn't common due to the way most people eat.

" Don't overlook other sea meats like octopus, oysters, shrimp, clams,

etc. "

I include those in my diet

" Antinutrients counteract nutrients. For example... "

Thanks for that explanation; I didn't know any of that.

" Just eat real food and stay away from this wacky stuff "

I can't resist asking you, : do you drink water. If so, how do

you justify this in light of the fact that throughout evolution we

most likely had very limited opportunities to drink clean water?

" Similar remarks apply to articial sweeteners. If it didn't exist

before the 20th century, you're gambling with your health based on

very limited data. Start out healthy and stay healthy. "

Well, I've made the transition from always using enormous amounts of

white/brown sugar to switching to honey/maple and calorie free sugars.

Over time I hope to be able to use only dried fruits as adequate

sweetening.

-

[Guest guest]

" saturated fats are essential, and have many more benefits than

monounsaturated fats. check out Enig's " Know Your Fats " ,

Nourishing Traditions, etc. also, considered how many basic

nutrient-dense foods have saturated fats, it's pretty scary to even

think of a diet without them. "

I'll definitely have to look into it then. I wish I could buy all the

books you mentioned, unfortunately I don't think I have the money.

Thanks for sharing your general approach. May I ask you how you eat

raw meats? Do you just eat steak or calf liver the way it was when you

bought it? My main gripes with eating a lot of meat is the

quasi-requirement of baking it in a lot of butter at high temperatures

at which point it certainly is no longer healthy...

-

[Guest guest]

" and it's not an optimal meal i sometimes

pop a low-dosage Ca/Mg pill. "

Something like Tums, or the like?

" while i haven't personally adopted it in my diet, UNHEATED honey is

quite a nutritious food "

How do I know if honey hasn't been heated?

" although i find myself not even desiring any sweeteners in my food. "

I'm curious, how long before your taste buds changed to this extent?

-