Guest guest Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 I switched to low fat lacto veg (ala ornish) to get my Blood pressure down. I eat egg whites occasionally. Regards, ----- Original Message ----- From: Anton Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 11:50 PM Subject: [ ] Re: Cows and salt. >I'm lacto-veggie now for health reasons. What are these health reasons? I eat a lot of eggs and meat for health reasons, i.e. vitamins, minerals, quality fats, high bioavailibility of nutrients, etc. Are you familiar with the Weston A Price Foundation (www.westonaprice.org) and "Nourishing Traditions"?best,Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 Hi , You'll never find an article that says meat does anything. I set out to prove a vegetarian diet was bad and read the existing article numbering 3000 or so. I'm not sure a person who switches to a vegan diet will get any benefits in mortality. All I know is that I felt a lot better, my muscle soreness cleared up. I lost 55#, my BP went down enough to dump the betablocker which was a real drag. That allowed me to exercise again. I was doing essentially a CR diet at 1800kcals making sure I got all the RDA's using a spreadsheet made from the USDA database. I read all the Sears books, walfords books, Ornish and DASH, plus the Mediterranean ref's and Okinawan ref's. I also subscribe to mdconsult.com to get access to medical textbooks. I think I don't NEED meat, or egg yolks, although I'm not sure there isn't some chemical in there that promotes something - we don't know a lot about the human body. But essential hypertension is child's play compared to cancer, diabetes, kidney disease so I right now I'm leaning more to looking at cancer prevents. Meat fat seems to be associated with prostate cancer. Protein is easy to get in veggies, but I opt for lacto in place of dried beans, nuts. By recording what I eat and my BP for the last 13 yrs, I have discovered what makes it go up. Mostly it's wheat, sodium, fats, and excess protein. The DASH diet tries to limit meats to two 3 oz servings and is designed for most hypertensives who in large part also have diabetes. It provides a higher protein than I want, is admittedly a compromise to get people to use. It does reduce BP for mild hypertensives, but mostly what it does is get people to look at their diet and know they can control certain parameters. If they can do that they can also lose weight and that will help most of their problems. When I switched I was really doing the rice diet (unbeknownst to me at the time) at about 1800 kcals. As I dropped BP I added steamed veggies and ended up (3 yrs) very close to an Ornish diet. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anton Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: [ ] Re: Cows and salt. I'm not familiar with a connection between blood pressure and meat, eggs, or fat. Blood pressure hasn't been an issue for me personally, but I'd like to know in general if there is any connection?(By the way, I eat two egg yolks everyday and throw away the whites because according the USDA data they have virtually no nutritional value, except for protein, which is so plentiful in other foods that it's not worth the trouble, especially since whites should be cooked to neutralize the anti-nutrients like anti-trypsin and avidin. All the good stuff (vit D, vit A, B vit's, cholesterol, fat, vit E, vit K, etc) is in the yolk, not to mention flavor.)Thanks,Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 Hi , Prostate cancer would be an epidemic if we avoided heart disease, lung cancer and lived long enough - like 85-95. We just don't see it in the average folk now because it takes a long time to develop. Dr's say you'll die of something else first - heart disease, lung cancer, stroke. True they don't know what causes it - we can only bet one way or another. Let say I'm planning ahead. Associations is all we have - admittedly not proof. Possibly, we can alter outcomes with adequate antioxidants like lycopene. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anton Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: [ ] Re: Cows and salt. #### If that were so, then prostate cancer would be epidemic during all stages of human history. I'm sure there's a lot more to the story than the effect of just one food. "seems to be associated" is not the kind of reasoning I would use to make major dietary decisions that contradict massive bodies of empirical evidence like the absence of health problem x in previous populations that heavily consumed food y. Additionally, "meat fat" is a heterogenous set of foods, varying in fatty acid composition, almost completely overlapping with the fatty acid composition of plant fats, varying in non-fatty acid components, including nutrients and toxins, depending on type of animal, part of animal, diet of animal, environment of animal, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 I have always disliked that quack website. The writer is against most alternative interests & is selective in his supporting references. In my opinion, the site exudes an overwhelming engergy for the negative. There are much better places to obtain useful information. r061n wrote: >Are you familiar with the Weston > A Price Foundation (www.westonaprice.org) and "Nourishing > Traditions"? Just to let anyone who is considering checking out Weston Price know, his foundation is considered disreputable by some sources and is on QuackWatch's list of questionable organizations: http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html due I believe primarily to Weston Price's promotion of "holistic dentistry": http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2003 Report Share Posted May 11, 2003 jw, since I substituted fish protein for some of the milk protein in Ornish, take a couple of grams of max-epa daily, and use a modest amount (very modest) of canola oil in my stil about 18% (of restricted calories) fat diet, my hdl's have come up significantly. BP has improved, but it seems to reflect adherence to "Natural" foods (call that no salt added), aerobic but not anaerobic exercise, and weight reduction more consistently. I also discovered that by using a faulty bp cuff I could control the apparent level of bp. I became suspicious, replaced the cuff, and my readings jumped by a disgusting amount. Oh well, accurate feedback is what I need, I now I've got it. Helps my stay with my program. I also use egg whites. But the more I wander from Ornish, the more trouble I have in complying with my program. I don't know if tame cows actually end up with more sodium in the tissue or not. I was given to understand that cows were provided with salt because it caused them to drink more water, and, along with with other encouragements, thus to provide more milk. Information goes back to when I was interviewing 4-H kids for a small radio station in central Oregon in about 1956. Probably wrong. However, whether or not 2 to one or 4 to 1 or whatever is optimal, more K in relation to NA seems to be better, at least if it is provided by unadulterated food...and that this higher potassium factor shows strong indication of being protective insofar as stroke is concerned. Ed S ----- Original Message ----- From: jwwright Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 12:25 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Cows and salt. I switched to low fat lacto veg (ala ornish) to get my Blood pressure down. I eat egg whites occasionally. Regards, ----- Original Message ----- From: Anton Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 11:50 PM Subject: [ ] Re: Cows and salt. >I'm lacto-veggie now for health reasons. What are these health reasons? I eat a lot of eggs and meat for health reasons, i.e. vitamins, minerals, quality fats, high bioavailibility of nutrients, etc. Are you familiar with the Weston A Price Foundation (www.westonaprice.org) and "Nourishing Traditions"?best,Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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