Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, SSRI medications writes: > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > geneticist disagree. I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And some mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe trauma, where you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the death of others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, injured, held hostage, etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what would you blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd only have to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of research into this and never once did I come across any references to this being a genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway after what I went through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? " Blind Reason " a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's Unsafe At Any Dose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, SSRI medications writes: > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > geneticist disagree. I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And some mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe trauma, where you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the death of others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, injured, held hostage, etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what would you blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd only have to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of research into this and never once did I come across any references to this being a genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway after what I went through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? " Blind Reason " a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's Unsafe At Any Dose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 You don't have to get nasty to me. I am fully aware of what PTSD is. I never said that PTSD is not possible without a genetic predisposition. In fact, that article states that the gene those researchers found can only account for a relatively low percentage of the cases. I was merely adding that based on my father-in-laws experience with protracted PTSD, we believe there to be a very good chance that my son's is too. Look, I provided you with a link to an article about the PTSD research which detected a genetic link. If you missed it when you were doing your research or when it first came out, today you found it. However, I'm not sure why you think this has anything to do with you and your PTSD anyway. I was talking about my son, not you. Somehow you missed the part where his PTSD was caused by his experiences from taking Celexa. The severity and protractedness of the PTSD leads us to believe it is more than psychological, but actually physiological, for him. > In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > > geneticist disagree. > > I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And some > mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe trauma, where > you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the death of > others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, injured, held hostage, > etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what would you > blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd only have > to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of research into > this and never once did I come across any references to this being a > genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway after what I went > through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? > > " Blind Reason " > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 You don't have to get nasty to me. I am fully aware of what PTSD is. I never said that PTSD is not possible without a genetic predisposition. In fact, that article states that the gene those researchers found can only account for a relatively low percentage of the cases. I was merely adding that based on my father-in-laws experience with protracted PTSD, we believe there to be a very good chance that my son's is too. Look, I provided you with a link to an article about the PTSD research which detected a genetic link. If you missed it when you were doing your research or when it first came out, today you found it. However, I'm not sure why you think this has anything to do with you and your PTSD anyway. I was talking about my son, not you. Somehow you missed the part where his PTSD was caused by his experiences from taking Celexa. The severity and protractedness of the PTSD leads us to believe it is more than psychological, but actually physiological, for him. > In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > > geneticist disagree. > > I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And some > mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe trauma, where > you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the death of > others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, injured, held hostage, > etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what would you > blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd only have > to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of research into > this and never once did I come across any references to this being a > genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway after what I went > through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? > > " Blind Reason " > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Sara, You are appreciated, I think Glitter just gets angry, but not at you, just the whole thing. Would you resend that link, I want to look it over. I am interested in any claims of genetic links. I will disect it and let you know. The words I hae to look up though, jeez. Thanks in advance. Jim You don't have to get nasty to me. I am fully aware of what PTSD is. I never said that PTSD is not possible without a genetic predisposition. In fact, that article states that the gene those researchers found can only account for a relatively low percentage of the cases. I was merely adding that based on my father-in-laws experience with protracted PTSD, we believe there to be a very good chance that my son's is too. Look, I provided you with a link to an article about the PTSD research which detected a genetic link. If you missed it when you were doing your research or when it first came out, today you found it. However, I'm not sure why you think this has anything to do with you and your PTSD anyway. I was talking about my son, not you. Somehow you missed the part where his PTSD was caused by his experiences from taking Celexa. The severity and protractedness of the PTSD leads us to believe it is more than psychological, but actually physiological, for him. > In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > > geneticist disagree. > > I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And some > mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe trauma, where > you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the death of > others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, injured, held hostage, > etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what would you > blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd only have > to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of research into > this and never once did I come across any references to this being a > genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway after what I went > through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? > > " Blind Reason " > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Sara, You are appreciated, I think Glitter just gets angry, but not at you, just the whole thing. Would you resend that link, I want to look it over. I am interested in any claims of genetic links. I will disect it and let you know. The words I hae to look up though, jeez. Thanks in advance. Jim You don't have to get nasty to me. I am fully aware of what PTSD is. I never said that PTSD is not possible without a genetic predisposition. In fact, that article states that the gene those researchers found can only account for a relatively low percentage of the cases. I was merely adding that based on my father-in-laws experience with protracted PTSD, we believe there to be a very good chance that my son's is too. Look, I provided you with a link to an article about the PTSD research which detected a genetic link. If you missed it when you were doing your research or when it first came out, today you found it. However, I'm not sure why you think this has anything to do with you and your PTSD anyway. I was talking about my son, not you. Somehow you missed the part where his PTSD was caused by his experiences from taking Celexa. The severity and protractedness of the PTSD leads us to believe it is more than psychological, but actually physiological, for him. > In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > > geneticist disagree. > > I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And some > mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe trauma, where > you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the death of > others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, injured, held hostage, > etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what would you > blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd only have > to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of research into > this and never once did I come across any references to this being a > genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway after what I went > through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? > > " Blind Reason " > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Here's the PubMed link to the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=search & db=PubMed & term=12232785 & doptcmdl=Abstract & dispmax=1 And the Medscape one: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/441854 Yeah, there are a lot of qualifying words and it only explains a small portion of the cases, but that only emphasizes how little we know about the brain and genes and human behavior. > > In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > > > geneticist disagree. > > > > I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And > some > > mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe > trauma, where > > you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the > death of > > others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, > injured, held hostage, > > etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what > would you > > blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd > only have > > to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of > research into > > this and never once did I come across any references to this being a > > genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway > after what I went > > through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Here's the PubMed link to the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=search & db=PubMed & term=12232785 & doptcmdl=Abstract & dispmax=1 And the Medscape one: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/441854 Yeah, there are a lot of qualifying words and it only explains a small portion of the cases, but that only emphasizes how little we know about the brain and genes and human behavior. > > In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > > > geneticist disagree. > > > > I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And > some > > mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe > trauma, where > > you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the > death of > > others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, > injured, held hostage, > > etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what > would you > > blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd > only have > > to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of > research into > > this and never once did I come across any references to this being a > > genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway > after what I went > > through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Sara, http://tinyurl.com/4axcb I made it easier to click. I looked it over, I still do not fully understand it but I do get that you are correct that they are finding similarities but I would have to look over the " large twin study " of Vietnam veterans that had demonstrated a significant genetic contribution to chronic PTSD upon exposure to combat. This previous study did not locate any genes. Also mentioned is other studies that " Lead One To Believe " . That's fine, actually I can see how these guys would get excited about it. Don't forget though that most of the funding for this stuff is from pharma. So the study evaluated 102 chronic PTSD patients and 104 carefully-documented trauma survivors (TS) who did not develop PTSD. So they are comparing 102 PTSD against 104 non-PTSD Trauma Survivors. So there was a difference between the groups, not very big but certainly interesting. But I don't get whether the study is suggesting that the difference in DNA from the groups is because of the stress experienced or due to a underlying genetic trait that was already there. See, I'm kind of old fashioned, pre-psychology. I think that thought is boss, mind over matter, spirit over the body kind of thing. Yes the body dictates a lot about who we are but what if they discovered that I was genetically predisposed to not get PTSD? Would that mean I might be directed as a youth to be in the military even though I want to play drums in a punk band? What would that knowledge of predisposed genetics actually lead to. I'm wary. I would never look a gift horse in the mouth but pharma is behind most of this research. Psychiatry of course is completely full of BS, so if they are saying " it's your genes " I'm immediately, maybe irrationally, backing away from it and look it over hard. Best, Jim Here's the PubMed link to the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=search & db=PubMed & term=12232785 & doptcmdl=Abstract & dispmax=1 And the Medscape one: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/441854 Yeah, there are a lot of qualifying words and it only explains a small portion of the cases, but that only emphasizes how little we know about the brain and genes and human behavior. > > In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > > > geneticist disagree. > > > > I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And > some > > mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe > trauma, where > > you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the > death of > > others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, > injured, held hostage, > > etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what > would you > > blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd > only have > > to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of > research into > > this and never once did I come across any references to this being a > > genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway > after what I went > > through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Sara, http://tinyurl.com/4axcb I made it easier to click. I looked it over, I still do not fully understand it but I do get that you are correct that they are finding similarities but I would have to look over the " large twin study " of Vietnam veterans that had demonstrated a significant genetic contribution to chronic PTSD upon exposure to combat. This previous study did not locate any genes. Also mentioned is other studies that " Lead One To Believe " . That's fine, actually I can see how these guys would get excited about it. Don't forget though that most of the funding for this stuff is from pharma. So the study evaluated 102 chronic PTSD patients and 104 carefully-documented trauma survivors (TS) who did not develop PTSD. So they are comparing 102 PTSD against 104 non-PTSD Trauma Survivors. So there was a difference between the groups, not very big but certainly interesting. But I don't get whether the study is suggesting that the difference in DNA from the groups is because of the stress experienced or due to a underlying genetic trait that was already there. See, I'm kind of old fashioned, pre-psychology. I think that thought is boss, mind over matter, spirit over the body kind of thing. Yes the body dictates a lot about who we are but what if they discovered that I was genetically predisposed to not get PTSD? Would that mean I might be directed as a youth to be in the military even though I want to play drums in a punk band? What would that knowledge of predisposed genetics actually lead to. I'm wary. I would never look a gift horse in the mouth but pharma is behind most of this research. Psychiatry of course is completely full of BS, so if they are saying " it's your genes " I'm immediately, maybe irrationally, backing away from it and look it over hard. Best, Jim Here's the PubMed link to the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=search & db=PubMed & term=12232785 & doptcmdl=Abstract & dispmax=1 And the Medscape one: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/441854 Yeah, there are a lot of qualifying words and it only explains a small portion of the cases, but that only emphasizes how little we know about the brain and genes and human behavior. > > In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli > > > geneticist disagree. > > > > I don't care who disagrees, it doesn't make them right either. And > some > > mental illness behavior IS learned. PTSD is the result of severe > trauma, where > > you perceive your life to be threatened, or you've witnessed the > death of > > others, or felt in fear of your life, or have been tortured, > injured, held hostage, > > etc. And what if there was NO grandfather who had had PTSD -- what > would you > > blame the PTSD on then? It has nothing to do with genetics -- you'd > only have > > to have PTSD to understand what I'm saying. I've done years of > research into > > this and never once did I come across any references to this being a > > genetically inherited predisposition and what would it matter anyway > after what I went > > through taking Paxil and the horror of its withdrawals? > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 > I looked it over, I still do not fully understand it but I do get that you > are correct > that they are finding similarities but I would have to look over the " large > twin study " > of Vietnam veterans that had demonstrated a significant genetic contribution > to chronic PTSD > upon exposure to combat. This previous study did not locate any genes. There are few gene studies that preceed the genome project. There are a few -- things related to the Y vs X chromosomes, XYY gene research, identification of the Downs Syndrome, Tay-Sachs genes, etc. But this is new stuff. Until recently, the twins studies are what got people thinking again that personality traits (or what we now call " disorders " ) and ways of think run in families. Before we were brainwashed by psychology, everyone knew that. You are looking at it backwards: the idea is that if there is a family tendency, there is probably a genetic connection. > That's fine, actually I can see how these guys would get excited about it. > Don't forget though that most of the funding for this stuff is from pharma. I don't know who funded this. I wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli government might be funding it. PTSD has to be a big problem there. This is the kind of research that drug companies don't fund. What they fund is the drug trials, when someone takes discoveries paid for by the governments and throws drugs at it trying to find a marketable cure. > So the study evaluated 102 chronic PTSD patients and 104 > carefully-documented > trauma survivors (TS) who did not develop PTSD. > > So they are comparing 102 PTSD against 104 non-PTSD Trauma Survivors. > > So there was a difference between the groups, not very big but certainly > interesting. > > But I don't get whether the study is suggesting that the difference in DNA > from the groups > is because of the stress experienced or due to a underlying genetic trait > that was already there. This is just good old scientific method research. It always starts with small studies and small samples. > > See, I'm kind of old fashioned, pre-psychology. I think that thought is > boss, mind over matter, > spirit over the body kind of thing.How old are you? Actually the mind-over-matter, spirit-over-body thing was heavily sold in the '60's and '70's by the psychologist who wrested some " disorders " away from the neurologist and made them " mental illnesses " . And we were all told we could just get better if we really wanted to. When that didn't work, they reverted to drugs but not the ones that use to be used. They got their own set of drugs and come-hell-or-high-water, they prescribe them to everyone and anyone who walks into their offices. Marketing, not science, is the forte of psychiatry. > Yes the body dictates a lot about who we > are but what if > they discovered that I was genetically predisposed to not get PTSD? Would > that mean I > might be directed as a youth to be in the military even though I want to > play drums in a punk band? That is a political question, not a medical one. I have no idea what will happen to the genetic information now being discovered. > What would that knowledge of predisposed genetics actually lead to. > > I'm wary. I would never look a gift horse in the mouth but pharma is behind > most of this research. > Psychiatry of course is completely full of BS, so if they are saying " it's > your genes " I'm immediately, > maybe irrationally, backing away from it and look it over hard. Finding for the human genome project came from a wide variety of sources including PHARMA. Yeah, they'll eventually benefit from the information but wouldn't it be nice if the result is drugs that actually work for the people who take them? Is that a bad thing? Psychiatry is still saying " It's your mother " and " It's your bad choices " . If they start saying " It's your genes " then the implication is that their therapy and pills won't help. If it's your genes, why go to a psychiatrist? They aren't the ones saying it, the genetisists and brain researchers -- the real scientists -- are saying that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Dear Peggy, Before revision I too had given up jeans, they would dig into the unhumped part of my waist and give me blisters. One of the best things after revision was being able to wear them again, so much improvement in the hump and the indentation on the other side. Yippy!!!!!! [ ] jeans I purchased my first pair of jeans today since revision. I haven't worn a pair of jeans in 4-5 years! And they actually fit without a huge gap at the back of my waist! Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 My jeans have been a comfort. I soak 24 hrs, dry reg heat 4 hrs, they are ok, and they are thick enough that they really cut down on bites from the " fallout " critters. Love my jeans too. Woo hoo! katiejill > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > For those using the kitchen oven to bake your bugs, what temperature > > > are you setting and how long do you bake? > > > > > > I've started baking my jeans, sneakers, shirts, and fleece. The > > > lowest temperature the stove goes is 170F which is plenty lethal but > > > it takes too long for the heat to distribute throughout the core > among > > > all the items so I'm experimenting with higher temperatures that's > > > still safe for the apparel. > > > > > > My sneakers survived 220F but it did make the shoe inserts inside > > > shrink :-O > > > > > > kihun > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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