Re: How many fruits do you guys eat daily?

August 19, 2003

IMHO, since you're only on ON and not CRON, eat all the fruit you want.

Someday when you decide to do full-fledged CRON, don't eat as much fruit.

It's not that low in calories at all. And contains lots of fruit sugar

(fructose). Veggies are much lower in calories (in general). I would not

suggest adding butter to your diet. There is a good butter substitute

called Spectrum Spread full of omega 3's. Buy it at just about any health

foods store.

A good way to add lots of fruit to your diet w/o too many calories is to eat

a cup of fruit salad (mix 4-6 small amts of diff fruits) daily - but keep it

to a cup or so if you want to do the CR of CRON.

Another " fruit " treat is sugar free ice pops (available in most

supermarkets) - 5 cal per pop - fruit flavors.

on 8/19/2003 5:25 PM, paultheo2000 at paultheo2000@... wrote:

> I'm really curious about the fruit intake amongst the cronies here.

>

> Before I had ever heard of CR I didn't eat any fruit (all I ate was

> white bread and candy), then I started with 2 fruits a day which grew

> to 3-5 a day. Now that I've made an effort to cut my grains to 0-2

> portions a day I've found myself snacking on fruit ALL the time. It's

> become the bottom of my food pyramid, tied with vegetables. I'd say I

> eat about 8-9 fruits daily. I'm curious if it's just a phase or if

> more people eat this way. I don't think it's particularly bad since

> it's low cal, plenty of nutrients and fiber but I do find it somewhat

> odd. If my palate could adjust I'd probably replace some of it with

> quality butter, liver, etc.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Cheers,

>

> -

>

August 19, 2003

Hi ,

It occurred to me you might benefit from the latest Dietary Reference Intakes:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309085373/html/536.html#pagetop

the usda food composition database

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/index.html

a Princeton db:

http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~ah/food/

and dr dukes db:

http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/index.html

regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: paultheo2000

Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 4:25 PM

Subject: [ ] How many fruits do you guys eat daily?

I'm really curious about the fruit intake amongst the cronies here. :)Before I had ever heard of CR I didn't eat any fruit (all I ate waswhite bread and candy), then I started with 2 fruits a day which grewto 3-5 a day. Now that I've made an effort to cut my grains to 0-2portions a day I've found myself snacking on fruit ALL the time. It'sbecome the bottom of my food pyramid, tied with vegetables. I'd say Ieat about 8-9 fruits daily. I'm curious if it's just a phase or ifmore people eat this way. I don't think it's particularly bad sinceit's low cal, plenty of nutrients and fiber but I do find it somewhatodd. If my palate could adjust I'd probably replace some of it withquality butter, liver, etc. Any thoughts?Cheers, -

August 20, 2003

Well, most fruits are fairly low in calories. Maybe not for the

Cronie, but for the average person. I can consume 4 portions of fruit

for the caloric price of a Mars bar which is way less filling! You're

right about the sugar, but I suspect the insulin spike is somewhat

mitigated due to the fiber and other nutrients in the fruit. You're

right though: vegetables are a theoretically more nutritious

alternative. When I sit down to eat about 50% of the volume I eat

comes from veggies.

About the butter, I'm definitely going to incorporate some and

probably more if I can get it from a local farmer. I don't know what

Spectrum Spread is, I'd have to look into it. My suspicion is that

it's either with trans fat, vegetable oil (canola or soy, probably),

artificial products and a great deal of chemical tinkering. If it's

made from flax oil (omega 3) then it may very likely be rancid. I have

the same concern about sugar-free popsicles. I'm trying to cut out all

artificial sweeteners as I read more about their potential impacts.

Not too mention that 'sugar free' products usually give my cravings

for more food...even in guar puddings. I stick to minimal amounts of

raw honey, maple sugar, molasses and stevia.

-

>

> > I'm really curious about the fruit intake amongst the cronies here.

> >

> > Before I had ever heard of CR I didn't eat any fruit (all I ate was

> > white bread and candy), then I started with 2 fruits a day which grew

> > to 3-5 a day. Now that I've made an effort to cut my grains to 0-2

> > portions a day I've found myself snacking on fruit ALL the time. It's

> > become the bottom of my food pyramid, tied with vegetables. I'd say I

> > eat about 8-9 fruits daily. I'm curious if it's just a phase or if

> > more people eat this way. I don't think it's particularly bad since

> > it's low cal, plenty of nutrients and fiber but I do find it somewhat

> > odd. If my palate could adjust I'd probably replace some of it with

> > quality butter, liver, etc.

> >

> > Any thoughts?

> >

> > Cheers,

> >

> > -

> >

August 20, 2003

Well, I don't use much butter currently, but I plan to incorporate a

lot more. The more I read about the impact of natural sources of

vitamins and A and D the more important I realize saturated fats are

in a healthy diet.

Well, liver is one of the healthiest foods on the planet. Even

conservative sites like 'The world's healthiest foods' advocate it in

spite of it's 'bad' saturated fats. People have eaten raw liver for

centuries.... the internal organs of animals were prized for their

nutritious value.

My fat intake, as it stands is something like this: extra virgin olive

oil, coconut oil, coconut/coconut milk, flax oil/flax meal, butter,

avocadoes. I have plenty of nuts. All kinds-pine nuts, brazil nuts,

macadamias, peanuts (I know, a legume), walnuts, almonds, pecans,

hazelnuts, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, cashews. I love nut butters

although I use them in moderation. I'm currently avoiding all soy

products, or at least consuming them very tentatively... I'm moving

towards replacing soy with milk, butter, cream, coconut and other fats

My BW is ~133 pounds, I consume about 80 grams of protein a day. I

think I'm going to cut out the whey protein powder though---I'm trying

to move away from processed and chemically manipulated foods.

I already thought of hard boiled eggs and raw vegetables. V8 is

also convenient. I do have some grains (I love pumpernickel) on occasion.

Cheers!

-

> , I'll play devil's advocate with Francesca's advice and suggest

that you could add a very SMALL amount of butter to your diet. Since

a number of nutrition scholars feel it's a safe and healthy addition

to the diet, it just might be a good thing to add, especially since

you are not yet restricting calories (restraining them, maybe!) Don't

make it the staple of your diet, by any means.

>

> Liver is probably a bad idea. Just think of the liver's function in

the body and you'll guess why. I know, I know, there's always

somebody to dispute any line of reasoning, but all kinds of serious

crap goes through a liver. No thanks. I can't suspend my imagination

long enough to get liver down.

>

> What are you eating for your polyunsaturated and monounsaturated

fats? Are you having some avocado? That'd be a good one for you.

Are you having some nuts? If I could afford the calories, I'd probably

use more " nut butters " like almond butter, or even peanut butter. Can

you get soybean butter? That's my favorite.

>

> How many grams of protein are you eating everyday, and what's your

body weight now?

>

> It's easy to eat a lot of fruit because it tastes good and it's

CONVENIENT. If you're concerned about eating too much of it, the

answer might be to make some other foods equally convenient by

preparing things in advance and putting them in ziplock bags. For

instance, you might keep hard-boiled eggs in the fridge, precooked

chunks of chicken meat, and ready-to-eat raw vegetables.

>

> Also, you said you weren't doing grains, but how about sprouted

grain breads that contain no flour, such as Ezekial bread? I do

popcorn sometimes, too.

>

> Suz

August 20, 2003

There are many snacks lower in calories than 3-5 pieces of fruit a day. But

if you're saying there are worse things to eat than fruit, you certainly

didn't get any argument from me there. Did anyone say anything about candy

bars here???

Spectrum Spread is dairy free, non-hydrogenated, trans fat free spread.

Another healthier alternative to butter might be garlic-tinged olive oil to

dip in - something Walford likes and recommends in his book.

Since you haven't read Walford's BT120YD, why don't you try suspending

judgement until you do ? You certainly sound like you have your mind made

up about things; nutrition is an evolving science and nobody has all the

answers yet as we note in our message to newcomers.

on 8/19/2003 8:40 PM, paultheo2000 at paultheo2000@... wrote:

> Well, most fruits are fairly low in calories. Maybe not for the

> Cronie, but for the average person. I can consume 4 portions of fruit

> for the caloric price of a Mars bar which is way less filling!

>

> About the butter, I'm definitely going to incorporate some and

> probably more if I can get it from a local farmer. I don't know what

> Spectrum Spread is, I'd have to look into it. My suspicion is that

> it's either with trans fat, vegetable oil (canola or soy, probably),

> artificial products and a great deal of chemical tinkering. If it's

> made from flax oil (omega 3) then it may very likely be rancid. I have

> the same concern about sugar-free popsicles. I'm trying to cut out all

> artificial sweeteners as I read more about their potential impacts.

> Not too mention that 'sugar free' products usually give my cravings

> for more food...even in guar puddings. I stick to minimal amounts of

> raw honey, maple sugar, molasses and stevia.

>

> -

>

>>

>>> I'm really curious about the fruit intake amongst the cronies here.

>>>

>>> Before I had ever heard of CR I didn't eat any fruit (all I ate was

>>> white bread and candy), then I started with 2 fruits a day which grew

>>> to 3-5 a day. Now that I've made an effort to cut my grains to 0-2

>>> portions a day I've found myself snacking on fruit ALL the time. It's

>>> become the bottom of my food pyramid, tied with vegetables. I'd say I

>>> eat about 8-9 fruits daily. I'm curious if it's just a phase or if

>>> more people eat this way. I don't think it's particularly bad since

>>> it's low cal, plenty of nutrients and fiber but I do find it somewhat

>>> odd. If my palate could adjust I'd probably replace some of it with

>>> quality butter, liver, etc.

>>>

>>> Any thoughts?

>>>

>>> Cheers,

>>>

>>> -

August 20, 2003

I can't think of any snacks lower in calories and as filling as fruit

(that aren't synthetic). There are vegetables such as carrots and

fennel which are also good snacks. I only mentioned candy bars in

relation to the average person...I'm aware that nobody here eats them

Well, since I don't have access to Walford's books I must make a

temporary decision in the meanwhile based on what I've analyzed so

far. Of course, I shall read the book (it's on my lengthy book list)

and perhaps re-evaluate then. BTW, you also seem to have made up your

mind. Should you not postpone judgement until having read Enig,

Fallon, Ravnskov? It seems that you don't follow the very advice you

give me. (My apologies if you have read them)

Cheers,

-

> Spectrum Spread is dairy free, non-hydrogenated, trans fat free spread.

> Another healthier alternative to butter might be garlic-tinged olive

oil to

> dip in - something Walford likes and recommends in his book.

>

> Since you haven't read Walford's BT120YD, why don't you try suspending

> judgement until you do ? You certainly sound like you have your

mind made

> up about things; nutrition is an evolving science and nobody has all the

> answers yet as we note in our message to newcomers.

>

> on 8/19/2003 8:40 PM, paultheo2000 at paultheo2000@y... wrote:

>

> > Well, most fruits are fairly low in calories. Maybe not for the

> > Cronie, but for the average person. I can consume 4 portions of fruit

> > for the caloric price of a Mars bar which is way less filling!

> >

> > About the butter, I'm definitely going to incorporate some and

> > probably more if I can get it from a local farmer. I don't know what

> > Spectrum Spread is, I'd have to look into it. My suspicion is that

> > it's either with trans fat, vegetable oil (canola or soy, probably),

> > artificial products and a great deal of chemical tinkering. If it's

> > made from flax oil (omega 3) then it may very likely be rancid. I have

> > the same concern about sugar-free popsicles. I'm trying to cut out all

> > artificial sweeteners as I read more about their potential impacts.

> > Not too mention that 'sugar free' products usually give my cravings

> > for more food...even in guar puddings. I stick to minimal amounts of

> > raw honey, maple sugar, molasses and stevia.

> >

> > -

> >

> >>

> >>> I'm really curious about the fruit intake amongst the cronies

here.

> >>>

> >>> Before I had ever heard of CR I didn't eat any fruit (all I ate was

> >>> white bread and candy), then I started with 2 fruits a day which

grew

> >>> to 3-5 a day. Now that I've made an effort to cut my grains to 0-2

> >>> portions a day I've found myself snacking on fruit ALL the time.

It's

> >>> become the bottom of my food pyramid, tied with vegetables. I'd

say I

> >>> eat about 8-9 fruits daily. I'm curious if it's just a phase or if

> >>> more people eat this way. I don't think it's particularly bad since

> >>> it's low cal, plenty of nutrients and fiber but I do find it

somewhat

> >>> odd. If my palate could adjust I'd probably replace some of it with

> >>> quality butter, liver, etc.

> >>>

> >>> Any thoughts?

> >>>

> >>> Cheers,

> >>>

> >>> -

August 20, 2003

> I'm really curious about the fruit intake amongst the cronies

here.

Hi ,

I eat almost no sweet fruits because of CR. just no calories to

spare, and I'd rather gets fats, greens, etc. i do make exceptions

seasonally, though, buying fresh lychees in the summer and picking

fresh wild berries from my backyard in season (very short window of

opportunity for the three or four types). i also eat non-sweet

fruits in season from local sources, especially peppers, but also

some tomatoes, cucumbers, etc.

if i didn't do CR I'd eat much more fruit. i do have the rare treat

of mango, papaya, peach, pear, etc.

mike parker

August 20, 2003

I eat a fair amount of fruit, but lately, much less than I previously did. I

now eat predominantly tomatoes, peppers, and berries. Formerly I also ate

alot of bananas, apples, cantelope, and grapes as well.

>From: " paultheo2000 " <paultheo2000@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: [ ] How many fruits do you guys eat daily?

>Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:25:01 -0000

>

>I'm really curious about the fruit intake amongst the cronies here.

>

>Before I had ever heard of CR I didn't eat any fruit (all I ate was

>white bread and candy), then I started with 2 fruits a day which grew

>to 3-5 a day. Now that I've made an effort to cut my grains to 0-2

>portions a day I've found myself snacking on fruit ALL the time. It's

>become the bottom of my food pyramid, tied with vegetables. I'd say I

>eat about 8-9 fruits daily. I'm curious if it's just a phase or if

>more people eat this way. I don't think it's particularly bad since

>it's low cal, plenty of nutrients and fiber but I do find it somewhat

>odd. If my palate could adjust I'd probably replace some of it with

>quality butter, liver, etc.

>

>Any thoughts?

>

>Cheers,

>

>-

>

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August 20, 2003

I have lived on all-fruit diet for a couple months, this years ago,

after reading some non scientific mystico propaganda. ( I'm

sure that toxic nonsense is still out there, beckoning other morons.)

For someone with a tendency to hypoglycemia, as i am, this diet was,

predictably, suicidal. ( But i

do note that the glycemic

effects of fruits do not quite accord with the published rankings...

strange...) You can pack away a lot of fruit, but whether you

are overly sensitive to sugar or not, the sugary flavor will just

get to be too much. I like to feel well sugar level regulated, and

this means better able to cope with long periods between eating,

and i am now able to better recognize the difference in myself between hunger

and sugar-hunger now,

so i have been moving away from fruit as a low cal snack - or meal postponer. In

warm

weather i put away a lot of brocco-slaw now, instead of fruit;

it has a very low calorie count per volume and good stuff in it.

Actually, i am sure using it raw like this, actually yields less calories

than stated on the package; i would not be surprised if only 50%

of the rated approx 150 cal./ lb are absorbed. The only drawback

to this food is its price; i think it's overpriced at around $3 / lb.

I can easily, easily put away 3 lb. while reading the newspaper.

Hue

August 20, 2003

One of the best approved diets rec's veggies and fruits. The "perfect" cron diet would be romaine lettuce. At 600 kcals, you get almost all the nutrients you need (so add a MV for selenium, and magnesium), but you have to add energy - that's sugar or fats.

Assuming you need 1800 kcal, you'd need to add 1200 - about 12 oz sugar or 4 oz fat. mix those you get a cookie or a french fry. fruits supply energy as well as vitamins and fiber.

regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: paultheo2000

Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 7:40 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: How many fruits do you guys eat daily?

Well, most fruits are fairly low in calories. Maybe not for theCronie, but for the average person. I can consume 4 portions of fruitfor the caloric price of a Mars bar which is way less filling! You'reright about the sugar, but I suspect the insulin spike is somewhatmitigated due to the fiber and other nutrients in the fruit. You'reright though: vegetables are a theoretically more nutritiousalternative. When I sit down to eat about 50% of the volume I eatcomes from veggies.

August 20, 2003

There are diff views on CRON, some eat a high fat diet, some low fat. The medically approved diets are low fat (ornish, DASH). low fat is <30%. Ornish is <20% - not easy to do.

----- Original Message -----

From: paultheo2000

Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:10 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: How many fruits do you guys eat daily?

I can't think of any snacks lower in calories and as filling as fruit(that aren't synthetic). There are vegetables such as carrots andfennel which are also good snacks. I only mentioned candy bars inrelation to the average person...I'm aware that nobody here eats them :)Well, since I don't have access to Walford's books I must make atemporary decision in the meanwhile based on what I've analyzed sofar. Of course, I shall read the book (it's on my lengthy book list)and perhaps re-evaluate then. BTW, you also seem to have made up yourmind. Should you not postpone judgement until having read Enig,Fallon, Ravnskov? It seems that you don't follow the very advice yougive me. (My apologies if you have read them)Cheers, -

August 20, 2003

Hey ,

You mention Stevia as an alternative sweetener. I use it fairly regularly,

especially when it's hot in the summer. It seems to be quite safe, though

there is an insulin reaction like with sugar (some hypothesize it's related

to the sensation of tasting sweetness, rather than any actual digestive

process), but these seems common to all sweeteners, regardless of calorie

load.

I actually find I use it less and less each year, as sweets just don't pose

as much of a temptation, but I don't think there's any specific reason to

limit stevia if you enjoy it and especially not if it helps you to avoid the

temptations of other things.

Cheers,

ps: I eat a spectrum of fruits and veggies every day, but most usually

berries and sometimes melons. About 5 years ago Sherman (anyone

know if he's still around on the other list???) created a nutritionally

complete fruit salad recipe that also works great as a breakfast shake (good

fat content & provided 60% of virtually all RDAs for a caloric load of

400) -- had that pretty much every day for a few years, though I find myself

grabbing fruit smoothies from a local store more often lately (hectic

schedule).

> -----Original Message-----

> From: paultheo2000 [mailto:paultheo2000@...]

> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:41 PM

>

> Subject: [ ] Re: How many fruits do you guys eat daily?

>

> Well, most fruits are fairly low in calories. Maybe not for the

> Cronie, but for the average person. I can consume 4 portions of fruit

> for the caloric price of a Mars bar which is way less filling! You're

> right about the sugar, but I suspect the insulin spike is somewhat

> mitigated due to the fiber and other nutrients in the fruit. You're

> right though: vegetables are a theoretically more nutritious

> alternative. When I sit down to eat about 50% of the volume I eat

> comes from veggies.