Re: Mind body connection (was:How to lower the body temp)

[Guest guest]

A fascinating subject. Is anything in the cancer arena (or other disease

areas) on the horizon? What do you mean that you have a " vested interest " .

Are you a cancer survivor? I know a young person with young children who

has an advanced case of breast cancer and I'd would be interested in any new

news on the subject. Thanks in advance.

on 8/17/2003 6:16 PM, Andy at endofthedream@... wrote:

> There is much *serious* research in this area...been going

> on for over a decade, especially in areas regarding cancer [i

> obviously have a vested interest there!!] as well as other autoimmune

> diseases.

[Guest guest]

>

> > There is much *serious* research in this area...been going

> > on for over a decade, especially in areas regarding cancer [i

> > obviously have a vested interest there!!] as well as other

> > autoimmune diseases.

*****Yes, Francesca, I thought you knew. I was under the impression

that I not only alluded to, but made SPECIFIC mention, in one of my

very Looooong posts over the past week, that I was treated for cancer

this past spring. I don't think I went into the details.

Here they are: I contracted from who-knows-where??? a VERY rare form

of Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. There are about 38 variants of that. Some

very treatable. Some not. Mine...well, when it was diagnosed (by

pathologists at Memorial-Sloan Kettering Cancer Hospital in NYC),

according to the docs...there were about 20 cases " on the books. "

Name: plasmablastic lymphoma ~ a variant of the large, diffused B-

cell lymphoma (LDBCL), with a CD20 marker missing. Curiously, the

majority of those with plasmablastic lymphoma are HIV + males. And

for them it occurs primarily in the oral cavity.

I am not HIV + ~ although I am male :-)) ~ ... and my cancer was

located in the bone (though it was not bone cancer). So I was in a

minority OF a minority. I guess mine will be " one for the books. "

Since it is so new, and so rare, there really isn't any treatment for

plasmablastic lymphoma. Yikes! There are only a handful of

oncologists in the entire USA who have seen and dealt with this

variant. Luckily, one of the most respected specialists is working

at Sloan Kettering so I, in a way, lucked out. Plasmablastic

lymphoma is treated the same way as the LDBCL (of which it is a

subset), except that because of the absence of the CD20 marker an

adjunct theraphy, Rituxan, was not administered. Rituxan

dramatically increases the effects of the standard CHOP

chemotheraphy, and (what's great!) it does not add any deleterious

side effects. All it does is help. ... Unfortunately, with my type

of cancer it was useless. So I underwent what is called

an " accelerated CHOP treatment. " (Details can be supplied if anyone

is interested.) I finished the three-month treatment all well and

good and had my first post-treatment PET scan. Results: the three

lesions which were present in late December are entirely gone. Clean

bill of health. Treatment complete. My next (follow up) PET scan is

in October. Will the cancer return? Who knows? Who cares! Any

concern about that is purely imagination and I can imagine the most

wonderful or the most horrible outcomes. Or do neither and just show

up when the time arrives and see what happens. (I prefer to do that.)

OK. Those are some of the gory specifics. But you were more

interested, I'm sure, in the mindbody aspects of " healing. " There is

a WEALTH of evidence that states-of-mind very directly affect the

soma. And, in recent years, as a result of Pert's ground-

breaking research, there is some understanding of exactly how

thoughts directly affect and interact with the body. This is soooo

off-topic for this group that I won't go into details here, but

suffice it to say that at least one of the transmitting " elements "

has been discovered: neuropeptides. They apparent carry thought-

emotion from the arising site (in various locations in the brain) to

other locales in the body. These can help heal or contribute to

disease. So being able to somehow " control " thought-emotion may

produce somatic healing, even far deeper than drugs, radiation and

surgery. But it is never a sure-bet.

A useful place to begin educating oneself on this is Bernie

Siegel's " Love, Medicine and Miracles. " Some of the cancer

treatments and side effects that are discussed in the book are

severely out of date (book was written in the early-to-mid eighties),

but it is the first solid introduction to the mindbody phenomenon.

His followup book is also good: " Peace, Love, and Healing, " but I'd

read them in chronological order. Bernie's work is derived from the

initial research done by Carl Simonton and his wife. There's plenty

of their stuff available also.

One example (there are literally hundreds of these) of the power of

thought on the soma:

Mr. , a client of psychologist Bruno Klopfer in 1957, had far-

advanced lymphosarcoma. All known treatments had become

ineffective. Tumors the sie of oranges littered his neck, armpits,

groin, chest, and abdomen. His spleen and liver were enormously

enlaged. The thoracic lymph duct was swollen closed, and one to two

quarts of milky liquid hd to be drained from his chest every day. He

had to have oxygen to breathe, and his only medicine now was a

sedative to help him on his way.

Despite his state, Mr. still had hope. He'd heard of a new

drug called Krebiozen, which was to be evaluated at the clinic where

he lay. He didn't qualify for the program, because the experimenters

wanted subjects with a life expectancy of at least three and

preferably six months. begged so hard, however, that Klopfer

decided to give him one injection on Friday, thinking that he would

be dead by Monday and the remaining Krebiozen could be given to

someone else.

Left febrile, gasping for air, after the first injection of

Krebiozen, Klopfer returned the next day to discover that the tumors

had actually begun to shrink! Within a few days the tumor masses

melted like snowballs on a hot stove. This was,of course, far more

rapid regression than most radio-sensitive turmors could display

under heavy X-ray treatment (and the docs already knew that his

tumors were no longer sensative to radiation treatment). He had

exactly one " shot " of Krebiozen. Period. And he was in a rapid -

nearly visible - remission.

He received a full complement of shots, three times weekly, and

within 10 days he was discharged from his " death bed. " Practically

all signs of his disease had vanished. The next day he took off in

his own plane and flew at 12,000 feet with no discomfort.

Now the kicker: within two months conflicting reports began to appear

in the news media...all of the other testing clinics reported no

success with Krebiozen. All the other patients died. Reading of

this, Mr. became severely upset (he had been fine physically

until this point). He was logical and rational in his scientific

thinking and he began to lose faith in the treatment he had

undergone. After two months of practically perfect health, after

hearing of these reports, he relapsed into his original state and

became very gloomy and miserable. He had to return to the hospital,

his body rife with tumors again! (They appeared just a few days after

he learned of the failure of the other clinics tests with Krebiozen.

Curious, huh?).

Well, Dr. Klopfer did not give up. He informed Mr. that the

reason for the other failures was that the Krebiozen had deteriorated

rapidly and that because had received the earliest (and

freshest) injections, he had been " saved. " Klopfer told of a

new, super-refined shipment, which he could administer immediately.

This greatly elevated Mr. 's mood and he became his optimistic

self again, eager to start over. By the time the " new shipment " of

Krebiozen arrived, Mr. was almost ecstatic and his faith in

its healing properties was very strong.

With much fanfare, and putting on quite an act, Dr. Klopfer

administered the first injection of the " doubly potent, super refined

and fresh " preparation. The results of this treatment were quite

unbelievable. Recovery from the second near-terminal state was even

more dramatic than the first. Tumor masses literally melted over

days, chest fluid vanished, and Mr. became ambulatory, and

even went back to flying again. At this time he was certainly the

picture of health.

Oh. And by the way. Mr. never received an Krebiozen. It had

been deemed a " failure. " What had been injected into Mr. ,

under the guise of being Krebiozen, was *Fresh Water*!!! And yet,

profound and completely remission ensued in a matter of days.

The injections (of water, unbeknowest to Mr. ) were continued

since they they worked such wonders. Of course, Mr.

*believed* he was getting Krebiozen all this time. He remained

sympton-free for over two months. And then, again in the press,

there was a final AMA annoucement that Krebiozen was proved " to be a

worthless drug in treatment of cancer. "

Of course this information got to Mr. . It was all over the

news media. Within a few days of this report Mr. was

readmitted to the hospital in extremis; his faith was entirely gone

now, his last hope vanished, and he succumbed in less than two days.

------This " story " can be dismissed (and has been) by some. It is,

however, factual. We don't know the " mechanism " by which the healing

occured (it certainly wasn't the Krebiozen). But healing DID

happen. And there are literally dozens of similar stories in the

literature. You can read more of them in Simonton and Siegel's

books. It is well established in psychological fields that mental

attitude, thoughts, and emotions not only aid in healing, they may

actual be a primary modality of healing. Certainly not in every

case, and certainly not all the time. But the effects of thought-

emotion on the body have a solid enough track record that I believe

that state-of-mind should be utilized as strongly as " traditional "

treatments for a whole host of diseases.

For " expanded coverage " on this, see " Healing Back Pain " and " The

Mindbody Connection " -- two books by Dr. Sarno -- that detail,

with scientific precision, how mental states afflict the body

(everything from " low back pain " to " allergies " to " headaches " and a

host of autoimmune diseases such as lupus and fibromyalgia). In

clear and precise detail, Dr. Sarno demonstrates how, by altering

one's mental states, one can HEAL the body. And Sarno is not a

psychologist/psychiatrist...he is an orthopedic surgeon...a " cut 'em

up " man who became convinced, over his 30 years of doing surgery,

that most of his operations were not only unnecessary, but useless.

That the origin of the body's problems arose in the mind and it was

THAT which needed healing. Healing of the body would follow quite

naturally once the mental states were addressed (and sometimes that

means addressing one's entire life circumstances!).

Hope the above helps someone! I am availabe, as always, for

continuing dialogue on this if anyone else is interested. I, for

one, am a convert to this way of thinking.

~ andy

[Guest guest]

> Andy: thanks for your long explanatory post. Not off topic at all.

> Anything related to living a long and healthy life is on topic.

> I've heard about and read Simonton and Siegel and some of the

> others - and no doubt some of our other list members have as well.

> My own take is that the power of suggestion such as was outlined in

> the story/example you gave works for some, but not for others.

*****I would call it the " power of belief " rather than suggestion.

All of the " stories " accumulated by Simonton/Siegel and others appear

to have one common denominator: the successful individuals really and

TRULY believed that whatever they were doing could help and/or " save "

them. It was not a casual, superficial interest: it was butressed by

a very deep belief, and there is a very high order of probability

that the belief " infected " :-))) their unconscious so that the mind-

state of " healing " was persisting 24/7, not just when one consciously

thought about it.

How many people can achieve this? Most, I believe. However, it

appears to require either a very long training period in which the

individual becomes cognizant and sensitive to the workings of his/her

mind (e.g., my meditation training) OR one needs to be a very

desperate person, ready (as Mr. was) to grasp at straws while

not perceiving them as " straws " (or empty promises).

> Something like the fact that some people can be hypnotised and some

> can't. I seem to fall into the " can't " camp; for example I've

> tried various herb therapies, acupuncture, chiropratic and

> other therapies for maladies over the years that have worked for

> many others, and never did a thing for me unfortunately - (but

> fortunately I found CRON).

*****Any conclusions about your ability/inability in the future are

premature. OK. They didn't work for you before. That is not to

suggest that they won't in the future. Perhaps there was some

crucial element you were missing (e.g., this dialogue with me!) which

might make all the difference. Have all the " maladies " you have

suffered " over the years " persisted? Or have some disappeared (only

to be replaced by others)? In either case, I strongly recommend

giving Sarno's book, " The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the

body Healing the Pain, " a look-see.

> Is your training in Zen Buddhism and meditation helping you

> cope ?

*****Past tense, please! There is no coping now. Treatment, etc. is

complete and recuperation is proceeding very smoothly. So: did all

the " training " (meditation) help me cope during diagnosis and

treatment? I'm sure it did. How could it not, seeing as I had 15+

years invested in it. (Also the 3+ years spent in psychotheraphy --

a type of " mind therapy " that supported the tenents of Buddhist

Psychology -- played a not insignificant role in my " coping. " )

It's difficult to know just what helped me cope since so many things

go into one's psychological makeup. Some of it was my basic

personality, what I would refer to as my innate conditioning-in-the-

moment. Some of it was a deep belief in the tenets of Advaita, the

spiritual " foolosophy " :-)) that I ascribe to now. Some of it arose

from working with an Indian " guru " named Sandeep. Family, friends,

coworkers.....the entire gamut of my " social circle " played a

positive and helpful role (not to mention the adept skill of my

oncologist).

> I'd love to be able to pass on anything I can to the beautiful,

> bright, loving young mother I mentioned in my earlier post.

*****Well, you have much material in my previous post. And if I,

personally, one-on-one, can be of any help to her, know that I am

here, ready, willing, and able.

> Please keep posting! Your posts are simply wonderful. And you

> have a wealth of info to share.

*****Thank you for the sweet words.

I should warn you, however, that the well may run dry soon!

Hahaha!!! I've pretty much spilled all my " beans. " But we'll see.

[Guest guest]

> Andy, I read about your lymphoma/chemo background in your original

> intro to the list, and congratulate you on your success with the

> treatment so far.

*****Thank you for the kind words April. Truth be told, no

congratulations are necessary as " I " didn't *do* anything.

Stuff...happened in and through this bodymind mechanism. But there

is no sense here that " Andy " was " controlling " any of it! There

really wasn't any volition on my part. Sure, looking back at what

happened, it appears that I exercised some control over my state-of-

mind, but I think that is revisionist history. I don't see that " I "

(as an individual with 'free will') had much to do with the success I

experienced. If this is too weird for you, I apologize. I'm

babbling Advaita foolosophy. But it played a significant role in how

I saw and experienced the events of last year and this spring. A

kind of " surrender " to what arose.

> I appreciate your comments about the " mindbody " (vs. mind body)

> as well as the astounding power of the brain mechanisms.

> Personally, I believe it; wish I could control it.

*****Yeah, that would be nice. It seems some very adept yogis can,

actually, control their bodily functions. But that takes decades of

intense, rigorous, unrelenting practice. Ready to move to the

Himalayas or to Bombay? Hahaha!!!!

> Originally, I thought you were talking about Enteric Neurological

> System, which is sort of new science (relative). I've read stories

> of doorstep cures based on this science. ENS explores intestinal

> neurons that are the same as & function like those in the brain.

*****Well, that is certainly part of the " science " I was alluding

to. It has been known for quite some years that the

stomach/intestines are a second " brain " (second does not suggest that

it is subordinate, just that we learned of it after the original

brain/mind was examined). I " learned " of it, firsthand, via

meditation, in which one may become highly senstive to the immediate

effects of thought on various parts of the body (tensing up,

tingling, etc.).

Whenever a psychological upset occurs (which is about every 5 minutes

in MY life! Hahaha!!!), the attention is turned inward. This differs

substantially from how we, in Western culture, are " trained " to deal

with upset. The messages we are given, both consciously and

subliminally via the popular media, are to run from the upset.

Narcotize it. Eat it away. Exercise it out. Avoid the

unpleasantness at all costs. Feel good! Be happy!

But the approach used here is to go into it deeply, fully experience

it, and not " think " about it, rationalize it, seek its causes, talk

it out, etc. Instead, FEEL the upset, allow it to overwhelm you, and

this non-thinking approach entails turning inward, to the body,

experiencing how thought-emotion manifests itself physically.

Sometimes doing this can be quite threatneing...almost feeling like

annihilation. But one *does* surive it. What is appearing and being

felt/experienced is only energy (perhaps an unpleasant wave of it to

be sure!) moving through the bodymind mechanism, and if allowed

to " have its way " with the bodymind mechanism, it does pass,

eventually. What arises in its wake is a calm, serene perception.

Not " bliss " or wonderful, elated joy. Just peace. Serenity. And it

doesn't last either. Don't count on it. There will be other upsets,

other waves of (unpleasant feeling) emotion. But each can be both

survived and eradicated using the methodology suggested above.

I've been doing this for years and this " meditative inquiry " approach

taught me how thought-emotion manifests itself IN and THROUGH the

body. For anyone interested in reading more about this, and learning

how to put it into " practice " in one's life, take a look at Ezra

Bayda's book, " Being Zen: Bringing Meditation to Life. " It is one of

the most user-friendly descriptions of this way of living that I have

encountered in 20 years. The term " zen " is hardly ever used in the

book, and, although Mr. Bayda is, in fact, a zen teacher, his lessons

are not steep in Eastern lore, but in plain, hard, down-to-

earth " science. "