Re: Pubmed study: Fasting better than CR (?)

[Guest guest]

*****Cool study !! Thanks for posting it.

Let me see if I get this correct: the mice consumed X number of cal

every 8 days (for example). Within the study they fasted every other

day (for a total of 4 days within the 8 day cycle). But they still

consumed the X number of calories in the 8 day cycle. So this means

that on their eating days they had to " double up " on the calories,

right, so as to consume X number of calories within the 8 day

period. Right? So on the alternate NON-fasting days they are eating

TWICE the number of cal that they would normally eat (were they not

fasting). And those X number of cal were what they would " normally "

consume to maintain their body weight? Is this an accurate synopsis

of the abstract?

If I did that, if I took all the food that I eat in two days (just to

maintain my bodyweight), and then fasted one day and then consumed

TWO days worth of food on the following non-fasting day, I would feel

stuffed on my 'eating' days. Let's say I need 2000 cal to maintain

my weight. So: Monday I fast; then on Tuesday I eat 4000 cal???

That's a lot of food amigo!!

Walford suggests fasting one day a week as an option to keeping cal

intake restricted (he notes that if one does that one can eat a bit

more food the remaining six days of the week and perhaps not feel

as " deprived " on a CR diet).

One question arises: for how long were the mice kept on this regime

and did the researchers determine whether the alt-day fasting

increased the average or maximum lifespan (or increase any life span

at all)?

> Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary

> restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury

> from calorie intake.

>

> Anson RM, Guo Z, de Cabo R, Iyun T, Rios M, Hagepanos A, Ingram DK,

> Lane MA, Mattson MP.

>

> Laboratory of Neurosciences, Gerontology Research Center, National

> Institute on Aging, 5600 Shock Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224,

USA.

>

> Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits

> including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance, reduced

> morbidity, and increased life span. The mechanism remains unknown,

but

> the need for a long-term reduction in caloric intake to achieve

these

> benefits has been assumed. We report that when C57BL6 mice are

> maintained on an intermittent fasting (alternate-day fasting)

> dietary-restriction regimen their overall food intake is not

decreased

> and their body weight is maintained. ~~~Nevertheless, intermittent

> fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of

> caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin

levels

> and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic

> stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has beneficial effects on

> glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to injury in these mice

> that are independent of caloric intake.~~~

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Yes, your synopsis is how I understood.

Yeah, 4000 cals is a lot, but I've found myself quite hungry after

fasting for a day. And if you don't consume 4000 cals, so much the

better

Having simply found the study on pubmed I unforuntately cannot offer

any details. Cronmouse is saying that the study may not be as relevant

as it hasn't been done on the same strain of mice as Walford.

At least it's something worth considering.

-

>

>

> *****Cool study !! Thanks for posting it.

>

> Let me see if I get this correct: the mice consumed X number of cal

> every 8 days (for example). Within the study they fasted every other

> day (for a total of 4 days within the 8 day cycle). But they still

> consumed the X number of calories in the 8 day cycle. So this means

> that on their eating days they had to " double up " on the calories,

> right, so as to consume X number of calories within the 8 day

> period. Right? So on the alternate NON-fasting days they are eating

> TWICE the number of cal that they would normally eat (were they not

> fasting). And those X number of cal were what they would " normally "

> consume to maintain their body weight? Is this an accurate synopsis

> of the abstract?

>

> If I did that, if I took all the food that I eat in two days (just to

> maintain my bodyweight), and then fasted one day and then consumed

> TWO days worth of food on the following non-fasting day, I would feel

> stuffed on my 'eating' days. Let's say I need 2000 cal to maintain

> my weight. So: Monday I fast; then on Tuesday I eat 4000 cal???

> That's a lot of food amigo!!

>

> Walford suggests fasting one day a week as an option to keeping cal

> intake restricted (he notes that if one does that one can eat a bit

> more food the remaining six days of the week and perhaps not feel

> as " deprived " on a CR diet).

>

> One question arises: for how long were the mice kept on this regime

> and did the researchers determine whether the alt-day fasting

> increased the average or maximum lifespan (or increase any life span

> at all)?

>

>

>

> > Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary

> > restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury

> > from calorie intake.

> >

> > Anson RM, Guo Z, de Cabo R, Iyun T, Rios M, Hagepanos A, Ingram DK,

> > Lane MA, Mattson MP.

> >

> > Laboratory of Neurosciences, Gerontology Research Center, National

> > Institute on Aging, 5600 Shock Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224,

> USA.

> >

> > Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits

> > including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance, reduced

> > morbidity, and increased life span. The mechanism remains unknown,

> but

> > the need for a long-term reduction in caloric intake to achieve

> these

> > benefits has been assumed. We report that when C57BL6 mice are

> > maintained on an intermittent fasting (alternate-day fasting)

> > dietary-restriction regimen their overall food intake is not

> decreased

> > and their body weight is maintained. ~~~Nevertheless, intermittent

> > fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of

> > caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin

> levels

> > and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic

> > stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has beneficial effects on

> > glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to injury in these mice

> > that are independent of caloric intake.~~~

> >

> > -

[Guest guest]

> " Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of

> dietary restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal

> resistance to injury from calorie intake. "

>

> Anson RM, Guo Z, de Cabo R, Iyun T, Rios M, Hagepanos A, Ingram DK,

> Lane MA, Mattson MP.

>

> Laboratory of Neurosciences, Gerontology Research Center, National

> Institute on Aging, 5600 Shock Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

I'll leave your quote of the abstract at the bottom here for those who are

interested. Again, 'yup,' the positive benefits of fasting without CR have

already been pretty firmly established, or at least strongly suggested.

However, your subject line of " Fasting better than CR (?) " has absolutely

nothing to do with the article, nor is it in any way supported by the

article.

You will note that there is NO claim that fasting without CR influences

maximum lifespan. In other words, you might be healthy and more disease

resistant (as with CR), but you'll still die at 77.5 years or whatever the

national average is for where you are... IOW, some of the health benefits

of CR related to disease preventions are not unique to the reduction in

caloric consumption, but have more to do with a 'famine-response.'

That's not really new, but if you have chosen not to consider CR and not to

consider life extension, then go for something that might help you stay

healthy and reach an upper area of the average lifespan. Not much different

from giving up cigarettes, which will likewise increase one's chances of

staying healthy and reaching a better stopping point in the average

lifespan.

Cheers,

> Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits

> including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance, reduced

> morbidity, and increased life span. The mechanism remains unknown, but

> the need for a long-term reduction in caloric intake to achieve these

> benefits has been assumed. We report that when C57BL6 mice are

> maintained on an intermittent fasting (alternate-day fasting)

> dietary-restriction regimen their overall food intake is not decreased

> and their body weight is maintained. ~~~Nevertheless, intermittent

> fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of

> caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin levels

> and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic

> stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has beneficial effects on

> glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to injury in these mice

> that are independent of caloric intake.~~~

>

> -

>

>

>

>