Re: INTRODUCING MYSELF FOR THE FIRST TIME :) & DIET SOFTWARE QUESTION.

[Guest guest]

Brent, if I may make a few points:

1.) Recording exactly when and what you eat is extremely time

consuming. I'm sure it does not appeal to most people--I tried it and

went insane after a month. It also tends to drive a person towards a

monotonous diet.

2.) I believe CRON gets harder as you near your goal. I had about 20

pounds to lose (at 15-18% bf) but as I got thinner it became harder

and harder.

-

> Good Morning All:

>

> I have been lurking in this group every since I read all Walford's

books here almost two years ago. I had the pleasure of meeting 4 CR

people at a recent scientific conference in Cambridge, England. It is

great to see these dedicated people who want to fight aging!

>

> I have been on CR for a few months so I know how to do it properly.

I followed Walford's book exactly. I used the Gradual Orientation

method, got the proper blood test to use as a baseline before I went

on it, and got a follow up test 6 months later.

>

> Everything he said about the biomarkers were true. I lost weight

190-170lbs., and reduced my blood pressure, trigylcerides,

cholesterol, 1 hour less sleep per night, and reduced my white blood

cell count. I am now commited to these ideas about Caloric

Restriction with Optimal Nutrition for life!

>

> I wish that we could all agree on a methodology for calling

ourselves CR people. For instance, why do so many people go on this

diet without getting a blood test? Then, I noticed that almost

everyone doesn't even use the recommended diet cycle Walford designed.

His 14-day diet cycle is one of the only ones I have seen to work

properly.

>

> Some people tell me that they are CR people but they have never used

the software. This means they don't know what they are eating! I

think this is another important criteria of the diet. (Especially if

your diet doesn't follow what Walford designed). I have tried to

design a better one, but I can't. He is a world reknowned scientist,

and I wish people would take his advice.

>

> Sorry about that! ... I had to say it... I am interested in making

the diet easier to cook and more affordable to the average person.

The actual food, when properly balanced with the software doesn't even

cause hunger! I lost over 20 lbs. and I didn't even feel it. I also

exercised almost every day on the diet. I have exercised for 16 years

of my life. However, when I first went on the diet, I abstained from

it for a month until my body got used to it.

>

> I think CRON works brilliantly! I also like this list. In fact, I

have been helped by some of you already. I do find this list very

useful. However, I am very interested in forming some principals that

Walford outlined, such as blood testing, computer software, etc... so

that this can be done properly and effectively. It is not that hard.

>

> Maybe I should end off with my question about diet software.

Francesca Skelton posted information below about different types of

diet software.

>

> /message/7889

>

> I haven't seen one that is better than Walfords DWIDP software. The

closest I could find was Nutribase but for CR Walford is the only one

I know of that does daily RDA's and helps you get the ON part of CRON

right. Am I wrong? Is there ANY software in the world better than

his? If so, WHY?

>

> Thanks,

>

> -Brent Erskine

[Guest guest]

, thanks especially for your second point. Can I ask a question

of others here? Did you all also find that as you lost more weight

it became progressively more difficult to stay on the diet?

I would like to be 'fore-armed' for that if that is the general case.

I haven't had much trouble here for the first couple of months,

especially as I have been take it gradually. But I realize this is

very early days.

Thanks for any responses.

> Brent, if I may make a few points:

>

> 1.) Recording exactly when and what you eat is extremely time

> consuming. I'm sure it does not appeal to most people--I tried it

and

> went insane after a month. It also tends to drive a person towards a

> monotonous diet.

>

> 2.) I believe CRON gets harder as you near your goal. I had about 20

> pounds to lose (at 15-18% bf) but as I got thinner it became harder

> and harder.

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually if you do this for a few weeks (which is what I did), it helps to

stay on course. I stopped doing this after a few months when it all became

second nature to me and I just mentally could estimate how many calories I

was consuming in a day.

on 10/13/2003 11:41 AM, paultheo2000 at paultheo2000@... wrote:

> Brent, if I may make a few points:

>

> 1.) Recording exactly when and what you eat is extremely time

> consuming. I'm sure it does not appeal to most people--I tried it and

> went insane after a month. It also tends to drive a person towards a

> monotonous diet.

[Guest guest]

It depends. Some people find it harder. Some people find it gets easier

and easier. I'm rarely tempted anymore and when I am, one or two " tastes "

usually convinces me that I'm not missing anything.

on 10/13/2003 11:41 AM, paultheo2000 at paultheo2000@... wrote:

> 2.) I believe CRON gets harder as you near your goal. I had about 20

> pounds to lose (at 15-18% bf) but as I got thinner it became harder

> and harder.

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Brent: welcome to the group! Any change for the better that people make

to their diets is better than none. If they want to call it CR, let 'em! I

agree that doing it correctly is best, but not everyone can. So if someone

wants to make whatever improvements to their diet that they can easily make,

we support their efforts.

on 10/13/2003 11:02 AM, BRENT ERSKINE at brenterskine@... wrote:

> Good Morning All:

>

> I have been lurking in this group every since I read all Walford's books here

> almost two years ago. I had the pleasure of meeting 4 CR people at a recent

>

> I wish that we could all agree on a methodology for calling ourselves CR

> people. For instance, why do so many people go on this diet without getting a

> blood test? Then, I noticed that almost everyone doesn't even use the

> recommended diet cycle Walford designed. His 14-day diet cycle is one of the

> only ones I have seen to work properly.

>

[Guest guest]

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

> Some people tell me that they are CR people but they have never

used the software. This means they don't know what they are eating!

I think this is another important criteria of the diet. (Especially

if your diet doesn't follow what Walford designed). I have tried to

design a better one, but I can't. He is a world reknowned scientist,

and I wish people would take his advice.

> I haven't seen one that is better than Walfords DWIDP software.

The closest I could find was Nutribase but for CR Walford is the only

one I know of that does daily RDA's and helps you get the ON part of

CRON right. Am I wrong? Is there ANY software in the world better

than his? If so, WHY?

>

> Thanks,

>

> -Brent Erskine

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

hi brent,

i've never touched any nutritional software. i like to calculate

everything by hand using the usda database directly. it helps me

develop familiarity with the numbers and intuition about what goodies

come from which foods in what proportions. sometime i'll probably

write my own software to track my daily diet and do various

spreadsheets and things automatically, but for now the manual method

is satisfying and not very time-consuming.

the biggest point i should make is that the usda data that most

software, including Walford's, uses, has ***severe*** limitations.

firstly, much of the data is of questionable accuracy, with

mysterious zero sample counts and obvious fudges.

much more importantly, the database is missing tons of crucial

healthy food, like the plethora of extremely valuable wild plant and

animal foods, like autumn olives or deer organs (to name two foods

i've been eating lately). it is totally lacking in data for wild

game organs. it doesn't have data on insect foods. it doesn't have

data for traditional fermented foods (huge huge huge omission). it

only scratches the surface of sprouts. it doesn't have data for duck

eggs or other eggs from animals besides chicken. it lists only one,

poorly defined entry for fish eggs, despite the dozens of

dramatically different species. it doesn't have data for bone stocks

(a huge, gaping hole in the database), a crucial food for so many

people. it's missing a big chunk of the foods that i eat on a

regular basis, and are eaten on a regular basis by millions of people

around the world following traditional diets. it's skewed towards

depraved SAD foods, with little of the multi-cultural richness that

is a real element of the " us " in " usda " , and a viable avenue of

nutritional optimization for all of us.

besides this, it doesn't disclose any information about variation in

nutrient content due to soil fertility, diet of the animal, etc.

for example, pigs can be fed a huge range of different foods, and

there are big nutritional differences that result. i'm sure the

data for pigs that gorge on acorns is going to be different than ones

who gorge on grains or skim milk, yet these are all common pig

diets. it doesn't give data for grain-fed vs. grass-fed beef,

despite huge differences in fatty-acid profile, etc, and we are left

to wonder what the nature of their samples were. in sum, it lacks

any concept of " quality of the source " .

as a fourth huge limitation, the list of nutrients is mostly

restricted to a proper subset of the known vitamins and minerals, and

is missing various trace minerals, and the hundreds of other crucial

nutrients that form the basis of many key criteria for food

selection. the huge spectrum of antioxidants is an example, but

there are tons of other crucial substances in food that should be

factored into ON deliberations. also, data is missing for a lot of

crucial things in common foods, such as vit D data. where is the

data for crucial vit D sources like crab, crayfish, lard, etc???? it

would also be helpful to list antioxidants and the variation in their

levels for different forms of processing.

despite these huge problems, the database is immensely valuable and

i'm very much into crunching the numbers. however, i find that the

majority of my food selection criteria are based on other sources of

information and i have to manually generate a lot of educated guesses

and approximations, so rolling up my sleeves and getting dirty with

the data is essential to have a functional and sophisticated

intuition about how to construct balanced, nutrient-dense meals.

mike parker

[Guest guest]

> it would also be helpful to list antioxidants and the variation in

> their levels for different forms of processing.

hi,

this was a typo in the post i just wrote--i meant " antinutrients " ,

not " antioxidants " . i.e. how much phytic acid, oxalic acid, etc...

sorry,

mike