Re: Okinawa Diet

[Guest guest]

CRON literature may not be the same as what happens in life. We just don't

have all the answers yet. The Okinawans have more centenarians than any

other population in the world. They also have more old people who are WELL,

active and contributing to society. Sounds good to me - to live to old age

being healthy and as Walford says: dying in an accident when riding my

motorcycle at some advanced age.

on 10/13/2003 3:42 PM, perspect1111 at perspect1111@... wrote:

> CRON literature suggests 40 to 50 year extension may be possible if

> the animal experiments analogy is appropriate. Clearly the Okinawans

> are doing a lot of things right. But if their lives are only

> extended by a few years then presumably they must be doing some

> things dramatically wrong? If so, do we know what?

[Guest guest]

Thanks Francesca. Of course I agree with everything you say below.

But let me put it another way. It appears that in some very

important detail the Okinawans are not complying with the CRON animal

model. (Of course they don't even know that is what they are doing.

They just happen to have lucked out on the least unhealthy diet

mankind has accidentally tripped up on to date!)

So the question may be: " How do WE know that we are not also missing

out on that important detail " . Just my opinion, but starving oneself

for 70 years in order to live an extra three years is not something I

would choose - although, fortunately perhaps, I am a lot older than

30 : ) so I will not have so long to wait. (It was the news that

you can start the CRON diet at quite advanced ages and reap the full

benefits that has motivated me to take action now).

The 'Demography of Dietary Restriction ......' article in SCIENCE

that I posted a couple of days ago is interesting in this respect

because it shows that you can use ANNUAL data (daily for fruit flies)

for age-specific mortality to determine quite quickly whether the

diet is working or not, if you have a large enough sample. They used

7,492 individuals, which is likely more than they needed for

statistical significance. The point being that if we had data for

enough individuals on the CRON diet we could do a similar analysis

and determine relatively quickly (not have to wait 60 years) to

determine how well our efforts are working.

I find the Okinawa discrepancy is a bit disturbing. Perhaps there is

some easy explanation. Just a thought. It would of course be

a 'quite involved' exercise to organize a study of humans on CRON.

>

> > CRON literature suggests 40 to 50 year extension may be possible

if

> > the animal experiments analogy is appropriate. Clearly the

Okinawans

> > are doing a lot of things right. But if their lives are only

> > extended by a few years then presumably they must be doing some

> > things dramatically wrong? If so, do we know what?

[Guest guest]

Rodney: just how old are you? If you're in somewhere in middle age you

should not be starving yourself. The diet should be more moderate in an

older person or the effects will be just the opposite (e.g. harmful to your

health).

on 10/13/2003 6:43 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> So the question may be: " How do WE know that we are not also missing

> out on that important detail " . Just my opinion, but starving oneself

> for 70 years in order to live an extra three years is not something I

> would choose - although, fortunately perhaps, I am a lot older than

> 30 : ) so I will not have so long to wait. (It was the news that

> you can start the CRON diet at quite advanced ages and reap the full

> benefits th

[Guest guest]

Francesca: I am around 60. Thanks for the warning. But what I am

doing now is not much different from what I have done four or five

times before. That is to decide I am a bit over weight and need to

take action to get my weight down to my 'ideal weight' again. Of

course on all previous occasions I stopped weight reduction when I

reached what I then considered to be my 'Metropolitan Life

Tables' " MLT " ideal weight **.

This time I am already below my MLT weight, but plan to continue the

weight loss. It has not been difficult so far.

In terms of foods consumed there are only minor changes to my menu as

I have been eating largely 'CRON-type' foods (six days a week) since

the early 1970s - but in the past not balanced as Walford suggests,

with the higher calories it didn't need to be. It looks like the

quantity is going to have to be quite a bit different in the future

(less!).

I plan to take this gradually. And watch how things develop.

In the " Demography ......... " article the mortality rate of the

previously fully fed '60 year old equivalent' fruit flies dropped

dramatically to that of those that had been on the diet since they

were '18' after just two days on calorie restriction. Two days is

probably the equivalent of about five years for humans.

(But if I believed all that can be expected from calorie restriction

is an extra three years then I wouldn't have the motivation to pursue

it. According to the lifespan predictor at www.centenarians.com

before taking into account calorie restriction it figured I most

likely would live to 95. Now I would be very satisfied if I could

reasonably expect to get another twenty years or so out of calorie

restriction).

** In fact my ideal weight calculations prior to now have been based

on both height and wrist circumference, based on data in one of

Pritikin's books. Wrist circumference supposedly being a good proxy

for bone mass.

By the way, I appreciate ALL advice from every source. Unfortunately

though, I have been told that others do not appreciate unsolicited

advice as much as I do, and it has caused difficulty from time to

time! So please, feel free to straighten me out any time you like.

It will be much appreciated! Sincerely.

> Rodney: just how old are you? If you're in somewhere in middle

age you

> should not be starving yourself. The diet should be more moderate

in an

> older person or the effects will be just the opposite (e.g. harmful

to your

> health).