Re: Obesity and Personal Reflections/Steve & All

[Guest guest]

--- In , Steve Sergeant <SteveSgt@e...>

wrote:

> >I KNEW, for 25 years, that " supplementing " my healthy diet with all

> >that junk was not good for me. I *knew* it. However, regardless

> >of that knowing, I still continued to eat unhealthful foods.

> >Why? Why does one do something that one *knows* - intellectually -

> >is not in one's best interest?

> It also often has to do with other aspects of one's lifestyle.

>

> I often work long hours away from home, and away from places where

> its even possible to get healthful foods. Sometimes, 10 hours have

> gone by and the only food I can get, without wasting up to two

> hours in the face of tight deadlines, or projects that need

> constant attention, is from a vending machine containing, at the

> healthiest, perhaps some roasted-salted peanut, (or if I'm very

> lucky, raisins), or, from a catering truck offering various fried

> delicacies on served white bread. (That run-on sentence was

> intentional, to convey the non-stop nature of many work days.)

>

> Planning ahead to bring snacks and other healthy food is possible,

> but it takes a big bite out of any remaining leisure time (read:

> sleep). Trying to eat wisely in a demanding job is probably the

> greatest barrier to maintaining crON diets for many of us.

In regard to the above, I am reminded of the following from Walford's

B120YD:

" You can make a rat eat by pinching its tail. The pain causes the

release of chemical (opiods) in part of the brain (the hypothalamus)

that block the sensation of pain, but also stimulate hunger. Like

opium or morphine, these opioids (also known as endorphins) are

addicting. Pinch a rat's tail frequently for ten days and it will

release opiods and overeat. That's one way (not a very nice one) to

get a fat rat. Suddenly stop pinching its tail, opioids are not

released, and the addicted rat will go into a fit -- the same

reaction as a heroin addict. Mental pain or stress [! Take

note!!] may also augment endorphin or opioid release and so stimulate

hunger. Avoidance of stress will aid in appetite control. In this

sense, weight gain and obesity may be thought of as a kind of auto-

addiction.

" The best answer to hunger turns out to be high-quality nutrition and

rational self-restraint. Adn don't let anybody pinch your tail! "

[Guest guest]

Well, I try to stay as stress-free as I can but sometimes school just

gets hectic. I do think that CR, in itself, causes stress and thus the

tendency for bingeing.

-

>

> > >I KNEW, for 25 years, that " supplementing " my healthy diet with all

> > >that junk was not good for me. I *knew* it. However, regardless

> > >of that knowing, I still continued to eat unhealthful foods.

> > >Why? Why does one do something that one *knows* - intellectually -

> > >is not in one's best interest?

>

>

> > It also often has to do with other aspects of one's lifestyle.

> >

> > I often work long hours away from home, and away from places where

> > its even possible to get healthful foods. Sometimes, 10 hours have

> > gone by and the only food I can get, without wasting up to two

> > hours in the face of tight deadlines, or projects that need

> > constant attention, is from a vending machine containing, at the

> > healthiest, perhaps some roasted-salted peanut, (or if I'm very

> > lucky, raisins), or, from a catering truck offering various fried

> > delicacies on served white bread. (That run-on sentence was

> > intentional, to convey the non-stop nature of many work days.)

> >

> > Planning ahead to bring snacks and other healthy food is possible,

> > but it takes a big bite out of any remaining leisure time (read:

> > sleep). Trying to eat wisely in a demanding job is probably the

> > greatest barrier to maintaining crON diets for many of us.

>

> In regard to the above, I am reminded of the following from Walford's

> B120YD:

>

> " You can make a rat eat by pinching its tail. The pain causes the

> release of chemical (opiods) in part of the brain (the hypothalamus)

> that block the sensation of pain, but also stimulate hunger. Like

> opium or morphine, these opioids (also known as endorphins) are

> addicting. Pinch a rat's tail frequently for ten days and it will

> release opiods and overeat. That's one way (not a very nice one) to

> get a fat rat. Suddenly stop pinching its tail, opioids are not

> released, and the addicted rat will go into a fit -- the same

> reaction as a heroin addict. Mental pain or stress [! Take

> note!!] may also augment endorphin or opioid release and so stimulate

> hunger. Avoidance of stress will aid in appetite control. In this

> sense, weight gain and obesity may be thought of as a kind of auto-

> addiction.

>

> " The best answer to hunger turns out to be high-quality nutrition and

> rational self-restraint. Adn don't let anybody pinch your tail! "

[Guest guest]

> Well, I try to stay as stress-free as I can but sometimes school

> just gets hectic. I do think that CR, in itself, causes stress and

> thus the tendency for bingeing.

*****At the risk of getting all " touchy feely " (I know you don't

respond well to that!! Hahaha!!!)...

Let me suggest that stress itself is not a function of school (or

work or family or...).

Stress arises when our ingrain ideas, notions, belief systems, (in

other words, our " conditioning " ) don't match what reality delivers.

In contrast, when we are fully engaged in a particular activity,

unconcerned about the outcome, just " loving it, " we may work long,

arduous hours, and yet feel no stress (other than the body's need for

rest -- here I'm talking about psychological/emotional stress).

It is the mental concerns about " results, " " outcomes, " " success, " and

self-image that generate stress. Not school (or work) per se.

~ andy

[Guest guest]

I doubt there's any such thing as a " stress-free " life. Boredom alone would

cause stress. The closest thing I have ever heard to a stress free life are

my husband's two bachelor uncles who are in their 90's, still going strong.

They live in the house they were born in and thus never paid a month's rent

or mortgage payment in their life; never travelled very far from home

(except during WWII when they were forced to enter the army - but were not

soldiers) never married and raised a family with all the stresses that go

with that. In other words no extraordinary financial or other problems

because of the lifestyle they chose. Yet they bicker constantly - complain

about the high cost of living (even though they never spend a penny), and

worry about current events.

They ARE long-lived, healthy and on their own at their advanced ages (93 and

94) - but would you want their life?

on 10/7/2003 6:08 PM, paultheo2000 at paultheo2000@... wrote:

> Well, I try to stay as stress-free as I can but sometimes school just

> gets hectic. I do think that CR, in itself, causes stress and thus the

> tendency for bingeing.

>

> -

[Guest guest]

At the risk of sounding arrogant, when you want to get grades in the

top 1-2% of your school and you have to scratch for every mark you can

get...it can be quite stressful!

I'd love if I could study just for fun...but I can't. Unless I change

my goals.

-

>

> > Well, I try to stay as stress-free as I can but sometimes school

> > just gets hectic. I do think that CR, in itself, causes stress and

> > thus the tendency for bingeing.

>

>

> *****At the risk of getting all " touchy feely " (I know you don't

> respond well to that!! Hahaha!!!)...

>

> Let me suggest that stress itself is not a function of school (or

> work or family or...).

>

> Stress arises when our ingrain ideas, notions, belief systems, (in

> other words, our " conditioning " ) don't match what reality delivers.

>

> In contrast, when we are fully engaged in a particular activity,

> unconcerned about the outcome, just " loving it, " we may work long,

> arduous hours, and yet feel no stress (other than the body's need for

> rest -- here I'm talking about psychological/emotional stress).

>

> It is the mental concerns about " results, " " outcomes, " " success, " and

> self-image that generate stress. Not school (or work) per se.

>

> ~ andy

[Guest guest]

That's a good point. Boredom has to be one of the worst vices on the

planet. It'll make even the most composed and intelligent person sink

into depression for no apparant reason. It's all a fine balancing act,

really. If you try to be TOO stress free...you end up not working very

hard and that'll lead to more work (and stress) later on.

The way I do it, is I try to stay positive at all times, and I take

time to relax. I try to put things in focus and think about what I'm

trying to acheive...and I try not to beat myself up about indulging in

'bad' things like TV, sweetened cranberries or whatever it may

be...guilt is a terrible feeling!

I bet yoga is helpful, as well, although I haven't tried it for lack

of time.

-

>

> > Well, I try to stay as stress-free as I can but sometimes school just

> > gets hectic. I do think that CR, in itself, causes stress and thus the

> > tendency for bingeing.

> >

> > -

[Guest guest]

> At the risk of sounding arrogant, when you want to get grades in the

> top 1-2% of your school and you have to scratch for every mark you

> can get...it can be quite stressful!

*****No, you don't sound arrogant. You sound driven. You have goals

and they are important to you. I respect that.

I just want to point out that it *is* possible - although it requires

a radically different mind set - to have goals and yet not get

stressed out about achieving or not achieving them. When one sees

that the results don't matter, then one's activity is effortless and

lacking in stress. Do the best you can and...well...what more can

you ask of yourself? If success happens, wonderful! If not,

well...you did the best you could, right?

See...the stress occurs because of how the mind is used. In any

given particular moment, there is no stress. There is either

studying or not-studying. No stress there!

Stress arises when a person *imagines* a future outcome (success or

failure). At that moment the person is not studying; all that is

happening is fantasy, imagination ( " I wonder what will happen if... "

is going through the mind). It is from this type of activity that

psychological stress arises. It is born when one pictures future

possible outcomes and there is a concern over having particular ones

occur; it is not a function of what you are doing at a particular

moment (although that may physically stress the body).

> I'd love if I could study just for fun...but I can't. Unless I

> change my goals.

*****No need to change your goals. Just drop your investment in

them. ;-))

~ andy

[Guest guest]

You must be a fan of Covey's writings. Basically, while I think

there's some truth in your post, I think it's somewhat idyllic. Sure

you can control your emotions and how things affect you (and should,

wisely) but you cannot always do this. You have to stay in touch with

reality. Sometimes you need to feel bad, and stressed, and angry, in

order to achieve things...it's an aspect of life.

-

>

>

> > At the risk of sounding arrogant, when you want to get grades in the

> > top 1-2% of your school and you have to scratch for every mark you

> > can get...it can be quite stressful!

>

>

> *****No, you don't sound arrogant. You sound driven. You have goals

> and they are important to you. I respect that.

>

> I just want to point out that it *is* possible - although it requires

> a radically different mind set - to have goals and yet not get

> stressed out about achieving or not achieving them. When one sees

> that the results don't matter, then one's activity is effortless and

> lacking in stress. Do the best you can and...well...what more can

> you ask of yourself? If success happens, wonderful! If not,

> well...you did the best you could, right?

>

> See...the stress occurs because of how the mind is used. In any

> given particular moment, there is no stress. There is either

> studying or not-studying. No stress there!

>

> Stress arises when a person *imagines* a future outcome (success or

> failure). At that moment the person is not studying; all that is

> happening is fantasy, imagination ( " I wonder what will happen if... "

> is going through the mind). It is from this type of activity that

> psychological stress arises. It is born when one pictures future

> possible outcomes and there is a concern over having particular ones

> occur; it is not a function of what you are doing at a particular

> moment (although that may physically stress the body).

>

>

> > I'd love if I could study just for fun...but I can't. Unless I

> > change my goals.

>

>

> *****No need to change your goals. Just drop your investment in

> them. ;-))

>

> ~ andy

[Guest guest]

> You must be a fan of Covey's writings. Basically, while I think

> there's some truth in your post, I think it's somewhat idyllic. Sure

> you can control your emotions and how things affect you (and should,

> wisely) but you cannot always do this. You have to stay in touch

> with reality. Sometimes you need to feel bad, and stressed, and

> angry, in order to achieve things...it's an aspect of life.

No, , I am not a fan of Covey. I don't even know who the person

is! Hahaha!!!

I guess I didn't make it clear. I am not suggesting that one can

control one's emotions.

Actually, I'm saying the opposite.

There is absolutely NO choice regarding the arising of emotions.

Emotions happen. They appear, unbidden, and, eventually, pass away

similarly.

We don't choose the emotions that happen to us. They ... just

appear! Like the weather. No control. And no choice.

Also, I wouldn't say that you ever " need " to feel a certain. You

feel what you feel. Sometimes bad, sometimes good. Sometimes happy,

sometimes sad.

What I was suggesting is that when one sees this clearly, then there

is much less upset, much less suffering, even in the midst of

unplesant emotions (stress, e.g.). What happens is there exists a

kind of detachment in which the unpleasantness doesn't overwhelm

you. The unpleasant sensation is there; it's felt; it's recognized.

But its damaging power is either diminished (by this understanding)

or entirely eradicated.

~ andy

[Guest guest]

BTW when feeling sad/blue, forcing yourself to smile, sing, etc. actually

forces you into feeling better. I've tried it and it often works. Simple

but effective. Of course helping others in some way is the best.

on 10/8/2003 9:48 AM, Andy at endofthedream@... wrote:

> There is absolutely NO choice regarding the arising of emotions.

> Emotions happen. They appear, unbidden, and, eventually, pass away

> similarly.

>

> We don't choose the emotions that happen to us. They ... just

> appear! Like the weather. No control. And no choice.

>

> Also, I wouldn't say that you ever " need " to feel a certain. You

> feel what you feel. Sometimes bad, sometimes good. Sometimes happy,

> sometimes sad.

[Guest guest]

> BTW when feeling sad/blue, forcing yourself to smile, sing, etc.

> actually forces you into feeling better. I've tried it and it

> often works. Simple but effective. Of course helping others in

> some way is the best.

And it may be useful to recognize that there is nothing " wrong " with

feeling sad/blue.

If one never felt that, how would one know what it is like to feel

happy/joyful?

Contrast is absolutely necessary in order to recognize a polar

opposite; otherwise, what you have is an unchanging, seemless state

and how would one identify that as " good " or " bad " ?

It is a moot point, however, since the only constant in the universe

is...change! :-)))

[Guest guest]

I disagree with your dichotomy. You don't need to suffer in order to

feel happiness. I wouldn't consider depression of any kind at all

necessary or positive unless it allows for positive introspection.

-

>

> > BTW when feeling sad/blue, forcing yourself to smile, sing, etc.

> > actually forces you into feeling better. I've tried it and it

> > often works. Simple but effective. Of course helping others in

> > some way is the best.

>

>

> And it may be useful to recognize that there is nothing " wrong " with

> feeling sad/blue.

>

> If one never felt that, how would one know what it is like to feel

> happy/joyful?

>

> Contrast is absolutely necessary in order to recognize a polar

> opposite; otherwise, what you have is an unchanging, seemless state

> and how would one identify that as " good " or " bad " ?

>

> It is a moot point, however, since the only constant in the universe

> is...change! :-)))

[Guest guest]

> I disagree with your dichotomy. You don't need to suffer in order to

> feel happiness. I wouldn't consider depression of any kind at all

> necessary or positive unless it allows for positive introspection.

*****We live in a dualistic universe, . There are no single-

ended sticks, no one-sided coins.

You are correct, , you don't need to suffer (or feel blue) in

order to feel happiness. But, in order to KNOW that what you are

feeling is, in fact, " happiness " ...*that* knowledge requires having

something to contrast with it (another emotional state,

perhaps " blue, " or " sad, " but basically " not happy " ). Otherwise, you

don't " know " that what you're feeling is " happy. " You're just

feeling some emotion and will probably not appreciate it for what it

is. (E.g., a state of calmness is never so appreciated as when it

follows its polor opposite: anger or upset.)

~ andy