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Francesca, I think you may recall Mark P. Mattson is chief of the lab of

neurosciences at the National Institute of Health in Baltimore, a CR (not

enough

ON, you thought) for 20 years and whose experiments with mice have led him to

believe that full feeding one meal or day followed by fasting leads to the

same longevity as consistent CR, that the stress of the hunger (or exercise)

may

be what stimulates greater survival and resistance to disease. He is seeing

publicity in many lay journals.

I am hoping you will also tell us the dosage of melatonin you favor as your

only supplement. Best, Peg

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Peg: forgive my ignorance. Who is Mark Mattson? Can you tell us more about

this article and the hunger experiments?

on 11/6/2003 11:55 AM, hsanborn2@... at hsanborn2@... wrote:

> The brand new Health magazine (Time Inc.) has a feature on Mark P. Mattson

> and his hunger experiments. Peg

>

>

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> Francesca, I think you may recall Mark P. Mattson is chief of the lab of

> neurosciences at the National Institute of Health in Baltimore, a CR (not

enough

> ON, you thought) for 20 years and whose experiments with mice have led him to

> believe that full feeding one meal or day followed by fasting leads to the

> same longevity as consistent CR, that the stress of the hunger (or exercise)

may

His experiments are consistent with the first experiements of

CR by Mac-Cay (Semi-Starvation). IMHO is the caloric stress

that counts, not the caloric intake. After the energy finishes, something

strange happens in the cell that increases lifespan. If this

interpretation is right the only

thing that need to be done to ensure lifespan

is to wait untill the energy

finishes to start eating again. Thus several

schemes, could work.

E.g.: EOD = Semi-starvation

Once A Day = Semi- Starvation

Two days on Two days off = Semi-Starvation.

In our world in which controlled experiments are nearly

impossible.... So sometimes I change to some of these schemes.

> be what stimulates greater survival and resistance to disease. He is seeing

> publicity in many lay journals.

>

> I am hoping you will also tell us the dosage of melatonin you favor as your

> only supplement. Best, Peg

>

__________________________________________________________________________

Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.

AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!

http://antipopup.uol.com.br/

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This brings up a question that I have been wondering about for some

time. When animals are put on lab CR, how often are they fed? When

they put mice on an EOD schedule and say that the results are the same

as CR, I find myself wondering.....mice live much shorter lives than

humans. So Even feeding them once (or 3 times) per day in their time

reference might feel like long periods of fasting to them. Is it

possible that this period of fasting would be necessary in humans to

have the same effect as proven in rodents? In other words, is it

possible that doing NON-FASTING CR, and dribbling in the restricted

calories more or less steadily, might not work as believed? Just

wondering.

Rob

-- In , " ronaldo.luiz.alonso "

<ronaldo.luiz.alonso@b...> wrote:

> > Francesca, I think you may recall Mark P. Mattson is chief of the

lab of

> > neurosciences at the National Institute of Health in Baltimore, a

CR (not enough

> > ON, you thought) for 20 years and whose experiments with mice have

led him to

> > believe that full feeding one meal or day followed by fasting

leads to the

> > same longevity as consistent CR, that the stress of the hunger

(or exercise) may

>

> His experiments are consistent with the first experiements of

> CR by Mac-Cay (Semi-Starvation). IMHO is the caloric stress

> that counts, not the caloric intake. After the energy finishes,

something

> strange happens in the cell that increases lifespan. If this

> interpretation is right the only

> thing that need to be done to ensure lifespan

> is to wait untill the energy

> finishes to start eating again. Thus several

> schemes, could work.

> E.g.: EOD = Semi-starvation

> Once A Day = Semi- Starvation

> Two days on Two days off = Semi-Starvation.

>

> In our world in which controlled experiments are nearly

> impossible.... So sometimes I change to some of these schemes.

>

> > be what stimulates greater survival and resistance to disease. He

is seeing

> > publicity in many lay journals.

> >

> > I am hoping you will also tell us the dosage of melatonin you

favor as your

> > only supplement. Best, Peg

> >

>

>

>

__________________________________________________________________________

> Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.

> AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!

> http://antipopup.uol.com.br/

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> This brings up a question that I have been wondering about for some

> time. When animals are put on lab CR, how often are they fed? When

> they put mice on an EOD schedule and say that the results are the same

> as CR, I find myself wondering.....mice live much shorter lives than

> humans. So Even feeding them once (or 3 times) per day in their time

> reference might feel like long periods of fasting to them. Is it

> possible that this period of fasting would be necessary in humans to

> have the same effect as proven in rodents? In other words, is it

> possible that doing NON-FASTING CR, and dribbling in the restricted

> calories more or less steadily, might not work as believed? Just

> wondering.

May or may not. Nobody knows. A lot of factors are involved:

Age of start, BMI, muscular mass, level of exercise etc...

I think semi-starvation works and it is a simplification trick.

Semi-starvation shows increases in

life by 50%. Doens't matters which scheme is adopted. OAD or

EOD. In Particular I only have lunch. No dinner, no breakfast.

I can stand hunger. But this doens means at all

that someone adopting other scheme is wrong.

Every human and phisiology is different (sex, age, ethinic group,

etc...).

But I guess that changing schems is not good.

I heard that the more regurlar your life is, the less your

chance to get cancer.

So once you choose an scheme, I think that you need to be

consistent with that scheme.

Unfortunatelly in real work it is very difficult to be consistent...

life is urgent... at least for me....

PS: In the first scheme rats (MacCay 1935)

were not feed at night or morning and lived 40% longer.

-- Gandhi.

>

__________________________________________________________________________

Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.

AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!

http://antipopup.uol.com.br/

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> Mark P. Mattson ....

> His experiments are consistent with the first experiements of

> CR by Mac-Cay (Semi-Starvation). IMHO is the caloric stress

> that counts, not the caloric intake. After the energy finishes,

something

> strange happens in the cell that increases lifespan. If this

> interpretation is right the only

> thing that need to be done to ensure lifespan

> is to wait untill the energy

> finishes to start eating again. Thus several

> schemes, could work.

> E.g.: EOD = Semi-starvation

> Once A Day = Semi- Starvation

> Two days on Two days off = Semi-Starvation.

Hi All,

I remain to be convinced that fasting (by any description) leads to

increased longevity in animals or humans.

Simply showing changes in parameters that are altered in fasting,

consistent with CR, does not " cut mustard " in my mind.

Cheers, Al.

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Hi All,

--- In , " mrbosco77 " <mrbosco77@y...>

wrote:

> ...When animals are put on lab CR, how often are they fed?

1 time/day. They quickly gorge on the food.

> When> they put mice on an EOD schedule and say that the results are

the same> as CR, I find myself wondering.....mice live much shorter

lives than> humans. So Even feeding them once (or 3 times) per day

in their time> reference might feel like long periods of fasting to

> them.

Probably. Generally, things in the shorter rodent lives happen more

quickly than in humans.

Wild mice do eat when food becomes available, not steadily. Ad lib

lab animals are fed more than enough food and eat when they feel like

it, as humans now do.

> Is it> possible that this period of fasting would be necessary in

> humans to> have the same effect as proven in rodents?

In my opinion, yes.

> In other words, is it

> possible that doing NON-FASTING CR, and dribbling in the restricted

> calories more or less steadily, might not work as believed?

In my opinion, it will work and better than ad lib fasting. Fasting

generally leads to CR and weight loss in reliable non-Mattson

experiments, as I recall.

Cheers, Al.

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