Re: Re: Brave New World (death topic)

[Guest guest]

I think many CRONIES are afraid of death just as much of the general

population is. Normal, I'd say. Nevertheless, I've seen aged sick people

wish for death. There are those who seek out the services of someone like

Dr. Kavorkian - I'm sure I spelled that wrong - or people who commit suicide

- or suicide bombers. So if the stakes are high enough, death is not the

worst case scenerio. My husband has always said to me: " give me a little

pill to finish me off if I ever lose my mind " ..........

on 10/19/2003 10:13 PM, Gifford at gifford@... wrote:

.. To what extent does our attachment to

> our CR regime (or other regimes) reflect the not fully conscious awareness

> that we're doing this so that we won't die as soon? We all (humans) think

> about death continually, but that awareness can't be fully conscious,

> otherwise we'd be paralysed by a crippling amount of anxiety.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All, As a new member of this list, I hope my input won't seem flippant or sophmoric, but as a long-term calorie restrictor (for cosmetic vs. health reasons) who is trying to move towards a more 'holistic' approach to health, I have to say that I truly don't care whether CR extends my life by even one day, only that it helps improve the quality of the daily life that I do have. From a purely weight perspective (and I do realize this is not the focus of CR), what it has done for my daily quality of life over the past several years is already enormous...from a flexibility/mobility POV, a huge reduction in chronic health problems, (depression, asthma, the beginnings of rheumatoid arthritis), and that's just the physical side... The emotional and spiritual benefits derived from good self-caretaking and self-discipline are also noteworthy.

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesca Skelton

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 8:46 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Brave New World (death topic)

I think many CRONIES are afraid of death just as much of the generalpopulation is.

[Guest guest]

At 09:50 AM 10/20/2003, you wrote:

Hi

All, As a new member of this list, I hope my input won't seem

flippant or sophmoric, but as a long-term calorie restrictor (for

cosmetic vs. health reasons) who is trying to move towards a more

'holistic' approach to health, I have to say that I truly don't

care whether CR extends my life by even one day, only that it helps

improve the quality of the daily life that I do have. From a purely

weight perspective (and I do realize this is not the focus of CR), what

it has done for my daily quality of life over the past several years is

already enormous...from a flexibility/mobility POV, a huge reduction in

chronic health problems, (depression, asthma, the beginnings of

rheumatoid arthritis), and that's just the physical side... The emotional

and spiritual benefits derived from good self-caretaking and

self-discipline are also noteworthy.

I agree wholeheartedly with Deb. As a person who sufferer from

severe autoimmune health issues, a positive taking charge of my life

gives

me the illusion I am doing something and not just waiting for the

inevitable. I have never been told by one doctor, including Walford

in Beyond,

that this will extend my life, but all have said they felt MENTALLY it

was a good thing and none could deny it. In fact, I first heard

about modern

CRON from my gastro-enterologist who recommended a Caloric Restricted

Mediterrean diet. I have followed that almost for the past 2 years

& probably will continue to do so. WHile I have lost no weight

in that time, probably because of my thyroiditis, other than my illness

issues my blood tests

are super! and remain what many specialists believe the sole reason I

have not disintergated further.

As for this fear of death, disease etc., well welcome to the world of

narcissia.

[Guest guest]

As long as we're talking about suicide (you broached it). Is there such a thing as a "little" pill? I think when people get that depressed, they don't have actually at hand the means or aren't knowledgeable enough to know it. Not eating seems to be what most folks do when they get that depressed. But those folks have not "lost their mind". Is the fear of "losing one's mind" greater than the fear of death? Is it the fear of not being able to control things anymore? Is it the desire to not let your offspring see the ravages of aging?

I think in large part religion has given many a psychology so they won't be afraid, yet it seems to me that by constantly pointing to that as a "goal" they do just the opposite.

I don't need to plan for death or think about it continually, consciously or not. It's inevitable.

I need to plan for living. Things change daily.

I don't need to justify my plan, according to some ancient mythology.

I need to avoid aging according to modern scientific knowledge, perhaps CR.

I need to avoid "losing my mind". (CR?)

I need to turn over "control" to offspring. So I can concentrate on CR implementation.

I need to avoid my religious in-laws. I've heard that stuff a thousand times and there is nothing new.

I need to keep my partner healthy too. A loving spouse is a known support system.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesca Skelton

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:46 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Brave New World (death topic)

I think many CRONIES are afraid of death just as much of the generalpopulation is. Normal, I'd say. Nevertheless, I've seen aged sick peoplewish for death. There are those who seek out the services of someone likeDr. Kavorkian - I'm sure I spelled that wrong - or people who commit suicide- or suicide bombers. So if the stakes are high enough, death is not theworst case scenerio. My husband has always said to me: "give me a littlepill to finish me off if I ever lose my mind"..........on 10/19/2003 10:13 PM, Gifford at gifford@... wrote:. To what extent does our attachment to> our CR regime (or other regimes) reflect the not fully conscious awareness> that we're doing this so that we won't die as soon? We all (humans) think> about death continually, but that awareness can't be fully conscious,> otherwise we'd be paralysed by a crippling amount of anxiety.>

[Guest guest]

Many people don't want to be a burden to other loved ones. Also they don't

want to live to the point that they lose what they call " their dignity " .

I want to keep my spouse healthy for his sake, and for him to enjoy life

as long as possible. But there is some selfishness involved. I don't want

my own life reduced to being a caretaker for a sick person (which happens

very often when one partner is healthy and the other gets sick).

on 10/20/2003 1:32 PM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

Is the fear of " losing one's mind " greater

> than the fear of death?

> I need to keep my partner healthy too. A loving spouse is a known support

> system.

>

> Regards.

>

[Guest guest]

Agree. I also witnessed a man who cared for his wife

many years in a mindless (alzheimers) state because he

said she did not want to be in a " home " . That " caring "

produced a very " warped " personality in him. Possibly

because he could never accept her passing, she had

constant care and forced feeding in their home. He

didn't live much longer after her demise. In his case he

possibly misinterpreted her desires into his own frame

of reference. Caring for an aged one is a debilitating

experience best done by experts. It leaves scars and i

would not want my spouse to do that, for sure.

The problem is avoiding that time when you become

" mindless " , when in fact you won't know it. You put the

burden on the other to terminate, which BTW, also has

legal ramifications. My wife's aunt had a husband

afflicted with alzheimers and she put them both in a

Masonic home where he could be handled by the experts

and she still be nearby. I've often wondered why that

type facilty is not provided for others, who at that

time of life need different support systems than can be

offered by family, etal. But i digress. What chemicals

can we use to stop or prevent " mindlessness " ?

As we live longer and become the aged, maybe we should

be using a Karasawa's scale as well as our other routine

test like checking for osteoporosis. Maybe we should

dwell on how to detect AD or VaD rather than the

ultimate solution.

Neurology

Volume 57 . Number 5 . September 11, 2001

Increased prevalence of vascular dementia in Japan

A community-based epidemiological study

" With the introduction of new treatments for primary

dementias, such as acetylcholinesterase inhibitors for

AD [52] and dementia with Lewy bodies, [53] and

selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors for

frontotemporal dementia, [54] the diagnosis of these

primary dementias become more and more vital. With drugs

said to arrest disease progression, early identification

of primary dementia may be as important as that of VaD. "

Perhaps the evaluation for our use could be a simplified

form of:

" Mini-Mental State Examination (MMSE) [8] [9] and

Geriatric Depression Scale [10] [11] for subjects and

the Short-Memory Questionnaire (SMQ), [12] [13]

Instrumental Activities of Daily Living Scale, and

Physical Self-Maintenance Scale [14] [15] " ?

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesca Skelton

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 1:21 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Brave New World (death

topic)

Many people don't want to be a burden to other loved

ones. Also they don't

want to live to the point that they lose what they call

" their dignity " .

I want to keep my spouse healthy for his sake, and for

him to enjoy life

as long as possible. But there is some selfishness

involved. I don't want

my own life reduced to being a caretaker for a sick

person (which happens

very often when one partner is healthy and the other

gets sick).