Re: Evidence - CRON vs Atkins - 3 points

[Guest guest]

> The Atkins adherents have stated many times that Walford says he's

> not an expert on dietary advice. I've searched through the book

> and can't find any such statement. What I have found on page 5

> of " Beyond " is: " My credentials in relation to age retardation are

> among the best in the world. In the matter of disease prevention,

> they are less, but they reflect extensive reading on the subject,

> plus my experience as a teacher and practitioner at the U of Cal

> School of Medicine " . If someone else knows where this claim of

> Roy not being qualified in diet matters is, in the book, or

> anywhere else, I would appreciate a post about it.

Francesca ~ it's not in the book because he DIDN'T say it! The

Atkins adherents are the ones who have " determined " that Walford

isn't an expert in dietary matters. (I would be curious to know what

professional and scientific credentials they possess that gives them

the expertise to pass *professional* judgment on a person who has

such a respected history in the field of longevity research.)

What Walford DID say, in addition to your quote above is the

following:

" The CRON diet will increase *maximum* life span, and to a

considerable extent carry average life span along with it, but other

measures may further help to square or rectangularize the survival

curve. These measures deal with fat, fiber, and fitness, with having

larger amounts of certain vitamins and minerals in our diet than the

official Recommended Daily Allowances (RDA), adding other chemical

agents to the diet (a very controversial but potentially important

matter), and avoiding stress and noxious environmental agents. In

this and the next several chapters, I will discuss all but the last

two of these WHICH ARE OUT OF MY AREA OF EXPERTISE. " (pp. 91-2 --

emphasis added).

In the above quote, Walford is clearly delineating the areas in which

he feels himself to be an " expert " : fat, fiber, fitness,

vitamins/minerals/other chemical agents. That combination sure

sounds like diet matters to me!

Second Point: There has been some discussion about the *validity* of

the Okinawan program vis-a-vis CRON. Here is what Walford says about

it:

" The daily caloric intake of Okinawan schoolchildren, thought

adequate in vitamins and animal protein, is only 62 percent of

the 'recommended intake' for Japan. Average sugar and salt intake

for Okinawans is lower than the national average, while consumption

of green/yellow vegetables and meats is higher. Although it is not

nearly so rigorous as the one spelled out in this book, the

Okinawans, compared with the rest of the Japanese, seem to be on a

CRON diet. "

THERE....Walford said it! (pp. 88-9) He goes on:

" The frequences of cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure,

diabetes, and senile brain disease are lower by 30 to 40 percent in

Okinawa than elsewhere in Japan. And the average highs and weights

of the population are lower. The increased number of centenarians

among Okinawans, the quality and caloric content of their diet, the

lowered incidence of the major disease of aging, and their smaller

body size are exactly what one finds in laboratory animals on a CRON

diet since early life. "

THERE...Walford said it again!

Third Point: There are some who are saying that an Atkins diet is

compatible with CRON. It just ain't so. Atkins clearly stresses a

high consumption of fat (including saturated fat) and protein. What

does Walford have to say about that? On pp. 231-32 he discusses the

relative amounts of protein, fat, carbs and fiber that should

accompany an ideal CRON diet. He is unwilling to say exactly what

proportions are best regarding fat intake but states that moderate

(30-35%) fat intake MAY work for some: " an increased fat intake is

acceptable health-wise so long as the fat is not saturated -- the

best choices being MUFAs like olive oil or canola oil...remembering

that except for the essential fatty acids, fats -- including olive

oil -- are nutrient poor. "

As Atkins has no considerations about saturated fat intake, clearly

the two diets do not mesh.

And on protein consumption (big in Atkins also), Walford says:

" I remain suspicious of dits too high in protein so far as aging is

concerned. The levels of protein carbonyls (indicators of oxidative

damage) in animals fed a low-protein diet are lower than in animals

fed standard laboratory food, and treatment with irradiation induces

a greater level of protein carbonyls in animals fed a high protein

diet...A diet too high in protein (beyond 0.8 gm per pound of body

weight per day) over a long time may damage the filtration apparatus

of the kidneys. In addition, the specific dynamic effect of excess

protein (the need to produce energy to metabolize the excess)

requires unnecessary energy expenditure, a kind of metabolic stress

in itself. And diets too high in protein may exert a negative effect

on calcium balance, with excessive excretion of calcium in the

urine. The CRON diet calls for about 40 to 80 grams of protein per

day for the range of average-sized persons. This would correspond to

deriving 11 to 22 percent of your calories from protein. " (pp. 231-32)

This type of deit is clearly NOT possible on Atkins! And thus it is

self-evident that CRON and Atkins are not compatible.

Please, let's not rewrite history, OK?

~ andy

[Guest guest]

Yes. But if so, then where are the occasional Okinawans aged 140 or

150?

In 2002 the average lifespan of a US male, including those members of

minority groups that have a poor diet and healthcare, was 74

(source: US Department of Health and Welfare, news release). The

average lifespan of the Okinawan male is 77 (source: one of the links

at the left side of this page). Does that look like extension of

maximum lifespan?

IF the Okinawans are on CRON then it looks like CRON, for some

strange reason, while unequivocally extending maximum lifespan in

many species, does not extend the maximum lifespan of humans.

Or is my logic lacking in some way here?

> " The daily caloric intake of Okinawan schoolchildren, thought

> adequate in vitamins and animal protein, is only 62 percent of

> the 'recommended intake' for Japan. Average sugar and salt intake

> for Okinawans is lower than the national average, while consumption

> of green/yellow vegetables and meats is higher. Although it is not

> nearly so rigorous as the one spelled out in this book, the

> Okinawans, compared with the rest of the Japanese, seem to be on a

> CRON diet. "

>