Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Can you elaborate on what you mean? AFA the more " stress " from lack of cal, the more life-span - it's my understanding that the exact way CRON works is still not well understood. Even less understood is the way it works in humans. Which is why many of us advocate moderation or mimicing the Okinawans, who do not go to extremes. I don't quite understand the analogy to water. on 8/27/2003 3:27 PM, Katrina at katnap@... wrote: > Speculative idea: > > I was thinking about resveratrol last night. It's produced in response to > stressful conditions (e.g., drought), and the more stressful the conditions > the higher the level of resveratrol. This sounds very similar to the way > in which calorie restriction works. The more stress from lack of calories, > the more life-span. Could it also be that the amount of water we drink > affects our life-span? > > Kat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Well, it's just speculation and theory on my part. I hope it's OK to speculate and discuss theories? It seems to me that the body goes into some sort of protective state when times are hard (e.g., food shortage) which then leads to a longer lifespan. Fasting seems to produce similar lifespan results to calorie restriction. I realise that no-one knows the exact reason yet. When one thinks of resveratrol, one realises that more of it is produced in response to life's stresses. For example, grapes grown in places with harsher conditions (drought, fungi, etc.) tend to produce more of it. And resveratrol now seems to have the ability to prolong lifespan in yeast and possibly other organisms (e.g., mice, humans, etc.). So it seems to my little brain that water restriction might lead to a longer lifespan in certain organisms via the production of resveratrol and possibly other mechanisms. Yes, I know humans don't produce reveratrol, but maybe we have our own equivalent? So, isn't it possible that shortage of any kind leads to adaptive mechanisms in organisms which then lead to a longer lifespan (e.g., calorie restriction, water restriction, oxygen restriction, etc.)? My guess is that these mechanisms are designed to slow aging to such an extent that the organism can survive until some time occurs when it can again flourish with adequate food and water, and thus procreate and continue the species. Kat. > Can you elaborate on what you mean? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 The supposed major mechanism for CR according to Walford (which by the way I think is secondary to the " prevent what is going to kill you " component), is that the body's mechanisms in digesting and incorporating food result in oxidative damage to cells, which shortens life. This should extend life even beyond what you accomplish by not succumbing to heart disease, cancer, diabetes, stroke, etc. This is where all the arguments about CR vs. lower weight come in. You need the lower BMI to prevent the so-called degenerative diseases of aging, but the oxidative stress component is what will get you next. Resveratrol appears in higher concentration in grapes grown under stress conditions, largely because, I think, the water level in these grapes is lower, increasing the concentration of other components. It doesn't mean they're making more of it, just that when you remove one component (especially one that makes up a large part of the grape) the concentrations of everything else increase. For CR, the important factor would be ORAC per calorie - there's a spreadsheet to this effect in our files area /files/ORAC per calorie.xls from an earlier discussion of this issue. Also see http://www.discount-vitamins-herbs.net/ORAC.htm for a short summary. ORAC stands for Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity and is a measure of antioxidant effect. Iris --- In , " katrinacrader " <katnap@f...> wrote: > When one thinks of resveratrol, one realises that more of it is > produced in response to life's stresses. For example, grapes grown > in places with harsher conditions (drought, fungi, etc.) tend to > produce more of it. And resveratrol now seems to have the ability to > prolong lifespan in yeast and possibly other organisms (e.g., mice, > humans, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Sorry I didn't respond to your earlier post... Yes, I think it's an interesting observation. I don't think it's water stress per se but for plants, lack of water probably equates to lack of all nutrition and the maximum stressor. Also interesting is the presence of some similar chemicals in olive oil... perhaps some of those paradoxes about longer lived but not restricted populations (French, Mediterranean, ..) eating lots of olive oil and red wine may explain the phenomenon (although I did see a discussion of serving size re: the French paradox, but we may be the " Do you want to Super size " that outlier). A bigger question is whether the benefits are additive, or either or. Of course all this still needs to be confirmed in higher animal studies. JR -----Original Message----- From: katrinacrader [mailto:katnap@...] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: [ ] Re: WR Well, it's just speculation and theory on my part. I hope it's OK to speculate and discuss theories? It seems to me that the body goes into some sort of protective state when times are hard (e.g., food shortage) which then leads to a longer lifespan. Fasting seems to produce similar lifespan results to calorie restriction. I realise that no-one knows the exact reason yet. When one thinks of resveratrol, one realises that more of it is produced in response to life's stresses. For example, grapes grown in places with harsher conditions (drought, fungi, etc.) tend to produce more of it. And resveratrol now seems to have the ability to prolong lifespan in yeast and possibly other organisms (e.g., mice, humans, etc.). So it seems to my little brain that water restriction might lead to a longer lifespan in certain organisms via the production of resveratrol and possibly other mechanisms. Yes, I know humans don't produce reveratrol, but maybe we have our own equivalent? So, isn't it possible that shortage of any kind leads to adaptive mechanisms in organisms which then lead to a longer lifespan (e.g., calorie restriction, water restriction, oxygen restriction, etc.)? My guess is that these mechanisms are designed to slow aging to such an extent that the organism can survive until some time occurs when it can again flourish with adequate food and water, and thus procreate and continue the species. Kat. > Can you elaborate on what you mean? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 > Resveratrol appears in higher concentration in grapes grown under > stress conditions, largely because, I think, the water level in these > grapes is lower, increasing the concentration of other components. I could accept that explanation if it were just water shortage that caused an increase in resveratrol. But NY wines produce the most resveratrol, and they think this is because of the humid conditions which allow more fungi to grow. It seems the grapes are producing resveratrol in response to other stresses than drought. Katrina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 My training was not in a hard science so therefore I go by what my 'logical' thinking tells me. Water isn't something I want to curtail in order to have a longer life. I've been fighting a stubborn sinus infection with high doses of Augmentin (by doctor's Rx and under his care). In order to help it along, I've been drinking from 2-3 quarts of water a day, plus others, where I was drinking about 1 qt. a day before. I've lost about 5 lbs over the past week while my caloric intake is still at about 1500 cal/day. Maybe water is the magic elixir that overweight Americans are seeking. Ruth From: " katrinacrader " <katnap@...> Reply- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:03:17 -0000 Subject: [ ] Re: WR Well, it's just speculation and theory on my part. I hope it's OK to speculate and discuss theories? It seems to me that the body goes into some sort of protective state when times are hard (e.g., food shortage) which then leads to a longer lifespan. Fasting seems to produce similar lifespan results to calorie restriction. I realise that no-one knows the exact reason yet. When one thinks of resveratrol, one realises that more of it is produced in response to life's stresses. For example, grapes grown in places with harsher conditions (drought, fungi, etc.) tend to produce more of it. And resveratrol now seems to have the ability to prolong lifespan in yeast and possibly other organisms (e.g., mice, humans, etc.). So it seems to my little brain that water restriction might lead to a longer lifespan in certain organisms via the production of resveratrol and possibly other mechanisms. Yes, I know humans don't produce reveratrol, but maybe we have our own equivalent? So, isn't it possible that shortage of any kind leads to adaptive mechanisms in organisms which then lead to a longer lifespan (e.g., calorie restriction, water restriction, oxygen restriction, etc.)? My guess is that these mechanisms are designed to slow aging to such an extent that the organism can survive until some time occurs when it can again flourish with adequate food and water, and thus procreate and continue the species. Kat. > Can you elaborate on what you mean? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Ruth: see: /message/6509 for a possible cure for your sinus infection. on 8/27/2003 8:22 PM, Ruth at cccucc@... wrote: > I've been fighting a stubborn sinus infection with high doses of Augmentin > (by doctor's Rx and under his care). In order to help it along, I've been > drinking from 2-3 quarts of water a day, plus others, where I was drinking > about 1 qt. a day before. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Some wine expert out there to comment? I recall that the best wines are produced in lower quantity because the grapes shrivel up and produce less juice but higher in sugar content - same concentration effect. Even though the fungi grow in humid conditions, they damage the crop - I suspect because they stress the grapes and reduce the amount of wine produced. Same effect if they ultimately dry out the grape. If the grapes are producing the resveratrol to combat the fungi - this would be equivalent to an immune response. People produce histamine in response to a mosquito bite, but I wouldn't conclude that consuming the biochemical response to this stress would be beneficial simply because it is a stress response. Also the effects on the molecule of passing through the digestive tract might negate any positive effect. I'd prefer direct evidence that the compound is beneficial. I think we do have some of this evidence on resveratrol, but I wouldn't conclude that the compound produced by another organism in response to stress would necessarily be beneficial for humans. Iris --- In , " katrinacrader " <katnap@f...> wrote: > > Resveratrol appears in higher concentration in grapes grown under > > stress conditions, largely because, I think, the water level in > these > > grapes is lower, increasing the concentration of other components. > > I could accept that explanation if it were just water shortage that > caused an increase in resveratrol. But NY wines produce the most > resveratrol, and they think this is because of the humid conditions > which allow more fungi to grow. It seems the grapes are producing > resveratrol in response to other stresses than drought. > > Katrina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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