Re: Dr. Walford Dying -- New York Times

[Guest guest]

Dr. W's condition is not related to CRON - it happened to him before he

became a CRONIE. While in the biosphere he was exposed to toxic gases and

it was all downhill from there. He contracted a nerve disease (ALS some

doctors think) from that exposure.

Anyway, one mouse doesn't mean anything. As a scientist, I'm surprised you

don't take that into account.

See our file: " Dr Walford's posts " for more info on his illness.

on 11/24/2003 7:43 PM, crnovice at crnovice@... wrote:

> According to the Nov. 23, 2003 article " Food for Holiday Thought "

> by Hochman:

>

> " By almost anyone's standards, Dr. Roy L. Walford is an old

> man. At 79, he is confined to an electric wheelchair and his voice

> is so weak, he speaks into a microphone wired to a small

> tabletop amplifier. A professor emeritus of pathology at the

> University of California at Los Angeles and the person most

> responsible for pioneering the C.R. lifestyle, Dr. Walford, whose

> books include " Maximum Life Span " and " Beyond the 120 Year

> Diet, " is dying from the fatal nerve disorder known as Lou

> Gehrig's disease. "

>

> " It's a big drag, " he said slowly in an interview at his one-story

> red brick industrial loft in Venice, Calif. " If they don't find a

> cure, I definitely won't reach 120. Maybe not even 90. "

>

> I believe someone had a link about this story on this list. But

> there was no disclosure of Dr. Walford's condition.

>

> I did not know of Walford's condition until I read the entire story.

> Since this list is based on Dr. Walford's books on CR, I am

> surprised that there is no discussion at all about this news.

>

> Aside from it being a personal tragedy for Walford whom many

> so admire on this list, what does this

> mean for people who are following CR based on Walford's

> regimen?

>

> Could it be there was something wrong in the way Walford

> practiced CR?

>

> If so, what might it be? As a scientist, I assume the good doctor

> would rather that we discuss his condition openly rather than

> pretend it's not happening.

>

> After all, being wheelchair-bound and dying at 79 is not what we

> hope CR would do for us.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is not news and has been openly discussed before. It is neither ignored

nor dwelled upon.

It is perhaps instructive that while CR looks like the most promising

strategy to slow the rate of aging, it will not magically shield

practitioners from all diseases, or getting hit by a car, or shot.

I suspect no one is more disappointed by this turn of events than Dr.

Walford himself, we all wish him well.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: crnovice [mailto:crnovice@...]

Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 6:43 PM

Subject: [ ] Dr. Walford Dying -- New York Times

According to the Nov. 23, 2003 article " Food for Holiday Thought "

by Hochman:

" By almost anyone's standards, Dr. Roy L. Walford is an old

man. At 79, he is confined to an electric wheelchair and his voice

is so weak, he speaks into a microphone wired to a small

tabletop amplifier. A professor emeritus of pathology at the

University of California at Los Angeles and the person most

responsible for pioneering the C.R. lifestyle, Dr. Walford, whose

books include " Maximum Life Span " and " Beyond the 120 Year

Diet, " is dying from the fatal nerve disorder known as Lou

Gehrig's disease. "

" It's a big drag, " he said slowly in an interview at his one-story

red brick industrial loft in Venice, Calif. " If they don't find a

cure, I definitely won't reach 120. Maybe not even 90. "

I believe someone had a link about this story on this list. But

there was no disclosure of Dr. Walford's condition.

I did not know of Walford's condition until I read the entire story.

Since this list is based on Dr. Walford's books on CR, I am

surprised that there is no discussion at all about this news.

Aside from it being a personal tragedy for Walford whom many

so admire on this list, what does this

mean for people who are following CR based on Walford's

regimen?

Could it be there was something wrong in the way Walford

practiced CR?

If so, what might it be? As a scientist, I assume the good doctor

would rather that we discuss his condition openly rather than

pretend it's not happening.

After all, being wheelchair-bound and dying at 79 is not what we

hope CR would do for us.

[Guest guest]

IIRC, Dr. Walford was a CRONIE a long time before he developed ALS. I read

his " 120 Year Diet " book in the 80's. The Biosphere experiment took place in

the 90's (I think.) Anyway, I was quiite aware of CR due to Dr. Walford for

years before Biosphere, and I followed news of the Biosphere because he was

a part of it.

Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: [ ] Dr. Walford Dying -- New York Times

>Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:20:25 -0500

>

>Dr. W's condition is not related to CRON - it happened to him before he

>became a CRONIE. While in the biosphere he was exposed to toxic gases and

>it was all downhill from there. He contracted a nerve disease (ALS some

>doctors think) from that exposure.

>

>Anyway, one mouse doesn't mean anything. As a scientist, I'm surprised you

>don't take that into account.

>

>See our file: " Dr Walford's posts " for more info on his illness.

>

>

>on 11/24/2003 7:43 PM, crnovice at crnovice@... wrote:

>

> > According to the Nov. 23, 2003 article " Food for Holiday Thought "

> > by Hochman:

> >

> > " By almost anyone's standards, Dr. Roy L. Walford is an old

> > man. At 79, he is confined to an electric wheelchair and his voice

> > is so weak, he speaks into a microphone wired to a small

> > tabletop amplifier. A professor emeritus of pathology at the

> > University of California at Los Angeles and the person most

> > responsible for pioneering the C.R. lifestyle, Dr. Walford, whose

> > books include " Maximum Life Span " and " Beyond the 120 Year

> > Diet, " is dying from the fatal nerve disorder known as Lou

> > Gehrig's disease. "

> >

> > " It's a big drag, " he said slowly in an interview at his one-story

> > red brick industrial loft in Venice, Calif. " If they don't find a

> > cure, I definitely won't reach 120. Maybe not even 90. "

> >

> > I believe someone had a link about this story on this list. But

> > there was no disclosure of Dr. Walford's condition.

> >

> > I did not know of Walford's condition until I read the entire story.

> > Since this list is based on Dr. Walford's books on CR, I am

> > surprised that there is no discussion at all about this news.

> >

> > Aside from it being a personal tragedy for Walford whom many

> > so admire on this list, what does this

> > mean for people who are following CR based on Walford's

> > regimen?

> >

> > Could it be there was something wrong in the way Walford

> > practiced CR?

> >

> > If so, what might it be? As a scientist, I assume the good doctor

> > would rather that we discuss his condition openly rather than

> > pretend it's not happening.

> >

> > After all, being wheelchair-bound and dying at 79 is not what we

> > hope CR would do for us.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

_________________________________________________________________

Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos,

and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx

[Guest guest]

In the " Anti-Aging Plan " , Walford says that it's the first book published

since the Bioshphere experiment. Book published in '94. He wasn't a Cronie

for very long before that because he started at the age of 67. He's now 79.

Anyway it's a moot point and has nothing to do with his illness. Dr W is

the first person (see the file on his posts) to say that he's only " one

mouse " .

on 11/25/2003 3:34 AM, Dowling at dowlic@... wrote:

> IIRC, Dr. Walford was a CRONIE a long time before he developed ALS. I read

> his " 120 Year Diet " book in the 80's. The Biosphere experiment took place in

> the 90's (I think.) Anyway, I was quiite aware of CR due to Dr. Walford for

> years before Biosphere, and I followed news of the Biosphere because he was

> a part of it.

>

[Guest guest]

Agreed that it's a moot point, but, " The 120 Year Diet " was published in

1986, before Biosphere. Roy was into CRON and practicing before, and during

Biosphere.

" Walford has kept to his starvation diet for nearly 20 years. On a typical

day, he has a low-fat milk shake, a banana, some yeast, and some berries for

breakfast. Lunch is a large vegetable salad, and dinner is fish, a baked

sweet potato, and vegetables. His daily calorie count comes to about half

the 3,000 calories per day many Americans eat. Even Hibbs lacks the

wherewithal to try such an extreme diet. " It's just very difficult, " he

says. " Damn few people, including me, are willing to put up with it. " "

" E-Mail is not to be used to pass on information or data. It should only

be used for company business. " --Dilbert

" Ahh, they have the internet on computers now " - Homer J. Simpson

" The human race has only one truly effective weapon, and that is laughter! "

- Mark Twain

>From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: [ ] Dr. Walford Dying -- New York Times

>Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:22:30 -0500

>

>In the " Anti-Aging Plan " , Walford says that it's the first book published

>since the Bioshphere experiment. Book published in '94. He wasn't a

>Cronie

>for very long before that because he started at the age of 67. He's now

>79.

>Anyway it's a moot point and has nothing to do with his illness. Dr W is

>the first person (see the file on his posts) to say that he's only " one

>mouse " .

>

>

>on 11/25/2003 3:34 AM, Dowling at dowlic@... wrote:

>

> > IIRC, Dr. Walford was a CRONIE a long time before he developed ALS. I

>read

> > his " 120 Year Diet " book in the 80's. The Biosphere experiment took

>place in

> > the 90's (I think.) Anyway, I was quiite aware of CR due to Dr. Walford

>for

> > years before Biosphere, and I followed news of the Biosphere because he

>was

> > a part of it.

> >

>

_________________________________________________________________

Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos,

and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx

[Guest guest]

On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 12:43:24AM -0000, crnovice wrote:

> According to the Nov. 23, 2003 article " Food for Holiday Thought "

> by Hochman:

>

> " By almost anyone's standards, Dr. Roy L. Walford is an old

> man. At 79, he is confined to an electric wheelchair and his voice

> is so weak, he speaks into a microphone wired to a small

> tabletop amplifier. A professor emeritus of pathology at the

> University of California at Los Angeles and the person most

> responsible for pioneering the C.R. lifestyle, Dr. Walford, whose

> books include " Maximum Life Span " and " Beyond the 120 Year

> Diet, " is dying from the fatal nerve disorder known as Lou

> Gehrig's disease. "

....

> Aside from it being a personal tragedy for Walford whom many

> so admire on this list, what does this

> mean for people who are following CR based on Walford's

> regimen?

>

> Could it be there was something wrong in the way Walford

> practiced CR?

>

> If so, what might it be? As a scientist, I assume the good doctor

> would rather that we discuss his condition openly rather than

> pretend it's not happening.

>

> After all, being wheelchair-bound and dying at 79 is not what we

> hope CR would do for us.

First of all, people can get ill regardless of what diet they're on.

CRON is not a magic bullet. Eventually, we will all die. If we avoid

diseases of aging, we will get cancer or something else. By eating

right, we can keep our immune system strong, our organs less

susceptible, but we can't protect ourselves completely. Any CRON

practitioner may die young.

Secondly, Walford started his CRON diet in his late 60s. The potential

benefits are much less when starting at that age. The ideal time to

start is as soon as the bones stop growing, in the early 20s or late

teens.

Thirdly, as others have pointed out, Walford is only one case. As he himself

has said in his books, the evidence revealing the benefits of CRON dieting

is based on populations, not individuals. On average, a CRON diet produces

certain results. In any specific case, it may produce no effect. A CRON

practitioner may even die much younger than the average non-CRON practitioner.

Now, as for your question about whether Walford practiced CR incorrectly, it

may be that he did. But that is not relavent to this discussion. His illness

is not evidence for or against that. Nor will his age at death contribute to

any meaningful statistic of the results of human CRON dieting, for several

reasons. First, he will not have been on the diet for the recommended period

of time; second, he changed his diet over time as new evidence was uncovered;

and third, he is not part of an actual test group with a corresponding

control group, which means there is no way to draw scientific conclusions

from his experiences.

Walford's condition is very significant because it is tragic when someone

falls ill; and because most of us have greatly admired him through the

years and feel that the world will lose something great and valuable if

he dies. Personally, I was very sad to hear about his condition; and I'm

sure his family and friends are very sad too. And since he himself has

struggled to prolong the human life-span, I can see how this must be a great

disappointment to him personally.

If he does read this list as someone said (or if someone cares to show this

post to him), I'd like to thank him for all the work he's done toward helping

humanity come closer to knowing how to live. For many years he's persisted in

trying to spread the word about his findings, and now finally the scientific

community has started to listen. Newspaper and magazine articles appear all

the time, and they don't say, " here is another crackpot theory " , they say,

" here is a scientifically demonstrated truth " . Walford's work, and the

work of those he inspired, has brought that about. And we are starting to

witness a shift in people's understanding of diet. Obesity in the US is going

down. People everywhere are starting to realize what they are throwing away

by living the way they have been.

Caloric restriction is not one of those discoveries that was 'bound to

happen'. We could have gone decades or centuries without anyone making the

connection. If people begin to live an extra 20 or 30 years in good health,

that is half a lifetime. If millions of people do this, that is millions of

lifetimes saved by Walford's work. This puts Walford in a class with many of

the world's greatest heros through history. I certainly think of him that way,

and I'm very, very grateful for everything he's done.

Zack Brown

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