Guest guest Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Hi folks: This US Navy publication seems very helpful for estimating BF%. It uses height and (abdomen circumference minus neck circumference). The article supplies equations - if that is what you like - or tables if you do not like equations. I doubt we will find a source that is appreciably better. Note that for males abdomen circumference is measured horizonally at **navel** level, and neck circumference below the adams apple sloping down somewhat from rear to front. All measurements are in inches. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kurilla5.pdf Also of interest, from other sources: (at least in the case of males) each one inch decline in abdomen circumference is associated with a decline in BF% of almost exactly 2%. Take for example an individual who, let's say, has an abdomen measurement of 36 inches and a BF% of 20%. Then at an abdomen measurement of 35 inches his BF% would drop to 18%. So, in order to drop his BF% from 20 to 10 he would need to reduce his abdomen circumference from 36 to 31. Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hi Francesca: So we are all different. Caution is advised, and having a proper (immersion or dexa) test done may be important when approaching low levels of BF%, so as to be sure one knows if the proxy method being used is accurate for the individual concerned. From your picture I doubt you need to lose weight. Rodney. > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > Here is another method which gives a number for me that is quite > > close to the US Navy method: > > > > http://www.healthcentral.com/cooltools/CT_Fitness/bodyfat1.cfm > > > > Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Why should one care, particularly, about body fat percentage? How does this relate to CR and longevity? On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:29:23 -0000, Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote: > > > Hi Francesca: > > So we are all different. Caution is advised, and having a proper > (immersion or dexa) test done may be important when approaching low > levels of BF%, so as to be sure one knows if the proxy method being > used is accurate for the individual concerned. > > From your picture I doubt you need to lose weight. > > Rodney. > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > > > Here is another method which gives a number for me that is quite > > > close to the US Navy method: > > > > > > http://www.healthcentral.com/cooltools/CT_Fitness/bodyfat1.cfm > > > > > > Rodney. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 >>> From: Dowling <christopher.a.dowling@g...> Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:33 am Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Body Fat Percentage Why should one care, particularly, about body fat percentage? How does this relate to CR and longevity? >>> The structure of the human body consists mostly of proteins and fat. Bones are a protein matrix with embedded mineral crystals. Carbohydrates are components of cartilage, but overall, carbohydrates do not have a major structural role in the animal kingdom. Plants, on the other hand, use carbohydrates (e.g., cellulose) as a major structural constituent. We know that too much fat is associated with cardiovascular disease, diabetes, etc., so it may seems reasonable to reduce body fat as much as possible. But because the brain and all the walls of the cells of the body have a high proportion of fat, we have to have a proper amount of body fat. If the amount of fat is too low, the body will not be able to create new cells or maintain the proper amount of fat in the brain. The recent message about the GRAY ZONE shows that we have to be very cautious, and there seems to be some agreement that Vitousek's papers on the psychological effects from severe dieting have some validity. So, how does body fat percentage relate to CR and longevity? In my opinion, body fat percentage relates to physical health and mental health. I don't think that you can live long without proper mental health. If you live a long life but your higher faculties are gone, you are no more than a zombie and no better off than someone with Alzheimer's. The difference between CR for mice and CR for humans is that, to stay human, the mind has to be preserved. To do this, we need to learn what is the optimum amount of body fat consistent with longevity and mental health. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 >>> From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@e...> Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:17 am Subject: Re: [ ] Body Fat Percentage According to this, I'm too fat at 110lbs and 5'4 " . It's telling me to lose anywhere from 10 to 14 lbs. Perhaps what they mean is that I should " replace " my " fat " with lean muscle mass? At my age I think my weight is pretty good. on 10/28/2004 8:53 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@y... wrote: > http://www.healthcentral.com/cooltools/CT_Fitness/bodyfat1.cfm >>> Francesca, I just tried the link and my were results consistent with the Navy method. (13% body fat, 20 pounds of fat and 131 pounds of lean body mass) If you only have 14 lb of fat in your 110 lb frame, that is only 12.7% body fat, which is as close as you can get to the essential fat for a woman. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 True, much is unknown regarding body composition, exercise, dietary intake, caloric intake in humans, and longevity. Certainly there is probably a range of " optimal " for longevity in humans. The animal studies suggest we ought only pay attention to calories, provided adequate nutritional intake. Exercise does appear to be a factor for human health and, perhaps, longevity. Exercise also affects body composition, so that one can take in huge volumes of calories (e.g. Lance Armstrong at ~6,000 Kcals/day) and maintain low body fat and low BMI. Obsession with body fat percentage, IMO, is a waste of effort, at least with respect to longevity. On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:36:15 -0000, citpeks <citpeks@...> wrote: > > > >>> > From: Dowling <christopher.a.dowling@g...> > Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:33 am > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Body Fat Percentage > > Why should one care, particularly, about body fat percentage? How does > this relate to CR and longevity? > >>> > > The structure of the human body consists mostly of proteins and fat. > Bones are a protein matrix with embedded mineral crystals. > Carbohydrates are components of cartilage, but overall, carbohydrates > do not have a major structural role in the animal kingdom. Plants, on > the other hand, use carbohydrates (e.g., cellulose) as a major > structural constituent. > > We know that too much fat is associated with cardiovascular disease, > diabetes, etc., so it may seems reasonable to reduce body fat as much > as possible. But because the brain and all the walls of the cells of > the body have a high proportion of fat, we have to have a proper > amount of body fat. If the amount of fat is too low, the body will > not be able to create new cells or maintain the proper amount of fat > in the brain. The recent message about the GRAY ZONE shows that we > have to be very cautious, and there seems to be some agreement that > Vitousek's papers on the psychological effects from severe dieting > have some validity. > > So, how does body fat percentage relate to CR and longevity? In my > opinion, body fat percentage relates to physical health and mental > health. I don't think that you can live long without proper mental > health. If you live a long life but your higher faculties are gone, > you are no more than a zombie and no better off than someone with > Alzheimer's. The difference between CR for mice and CR for humans is > that, to stay human, the mind has to be preserved. To do this, we > need to learn what is the optimum amount of body fat consistent > with longevity and mental health. > > Tony > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hi : I agree with Tony's answer to this. I would like to add that for those who believe that CRON is beneficial it may be important to do it to the extent it is beneficial and not go beyond what is beneficial. In order to make a judgment about whether one is nowhere close to the most beneficial level of CRON, or perhaps well beyond it, one needs some way to measure it. One helpful way is BF%. There are lots of others. BMI is one I like less than BF%. Waist circumference is another. Lipids values is another. BP another. ........... But there are disadvantages to each of these measures. The disadvantge of BF% is it is difficult/expensive to be sure one has the correct number. With many of the others there is no way I know of to determine if they are TOO LOW - too low total cholesterol, say, or too low blood pressure, or too low WBC. But one adbvantage of BF% is that we do have some indications of what is too low. Tony has often posted them here. As have others. IMO it is important to have some indication as to how far in CRON is far enough. BF% is one measure that helps with that, imo, fwiw. Rodney. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > > > > > Here is another method which gives a number for me that is quite > > > > close to the US Navy method: > > > > > > > > http://www.healthcentral.com/cooltools/CT_Fitness/bodyfat1.cfm > > > > > > > > Rodney. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 WRT " too low " for body fat, what, exactly are these parameters, and given the relative inaccuracy of body fat measurement, of what use are they? On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:58:10 -0000, Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote: > > > Hi : > > I agree with Tony's answer to this. I would like to add that for > those who believe that CRON is beneficial it may be important to do > it to the extent it is beneficial and not go beyond what is > beneficial. > > In order to make a judgment about whether one is nowhere close to the > most beneficial level of CRON, or perhaps well beyond it, one needs > some way to measure it. One helpful way is BF%. There are lots of > others. BMI is one I like less than BF%. Waist circumference is > another. Lipids values is another. BP another. ........... > > But there are disadvantages to each of these measures. The > disadvantge of BF% is it is difficult/expensive to be sure one has > the correct number. With many of the others there is no way I know > of to determine if they are TOO LOW - too low total cholesterol, say, > or too low blood pressure, or too low WBC. > > But one adbvantage of BF% is that we do have some indications of what > is too low. Tony has often posted them here. As have others. > > IMO it is important to have some indication as to how far in CRON is > far enough. BF% is one measure that helps with that, imo, fwiw. > > Rodney. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > > > > > > > Here is another method which gives a number for me that is > quite > > > > > close to the US Navy method: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.healthcentral.com/cooltools/CT_Fitness/bodyfat1.cfm > > > > > > > > > > Rodney. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 In the article you link, I really don't see any reference for body fatWRT " too low " for males. Also, this is an article for a general audience, without reference to studies. WRT to burning things you don't want burned, I disagree. With CR, you lower BMI. This may entail " burning " excess muscle, etc. On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:21:01 -0000, Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote: > > > Hi : > > Here is an article, from what looks like a reputable website, that > discusses the issue. Tony has tables which I have seen various > places that specify expected healthy minimums for 'essential > fat', 'athletes', and regular people, both for males and females. > > http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/body_comp/a/aa090200a.htm > > Also is it not true that if your body fat reserves get too low your > body will start to burn for energy stuff you really would prefer to > keep? Like muscle, including perhaps heart muscle? Possibly > including the bone matrix tissue Tony has mentioned here a number of > times? > > Rodney. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is another method which gives a number for me that is > > > quite > > > > > > > close to the US Navy method: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.healthcentral.com/cooltools/CT_Fitness/bodyfat1.cfm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rodney. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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