my intro and some thoughts

[Guest guest]

<A HREF= " http://www.theforgotten.com/vaccines/ " >Click here: Home Page</A> My

website on vaccines is easy reading

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the group Angie. It is normal to feel confused when you first

decide not to vax. Your instincts are telling you not to vax and I think

you should follow that. Yes, your child could get a disease but they could

also get the disease if they are vaccinated too. You need to learn about

the diseases if you vax or not. You will become more comfortable in your

decision over time and the more you learn. This group has been invaluable

to me and I have no doubts about my decision to not vax anymore.

I believe the smallpox vax can be given up to 5 days after exposure but I

am not sure if that works with the other diseases or not. You might want to

look into homeopathy instead to help you through any disease if you or you

child should get something.

Eating healthy is very important but in my opinion, you have more of a

reason to not get vaxed if your diet is less than perfect. Why would you

want to put even more junk into your body?

What state are you in?

Jodi

" "

<Mamasfavorites@c

<vaccinations >

ox.net> cc:

Subject: My intro

and some thoughts

10/11/02 11:09 PM

Please respond to

Vaccinations

I have been reading here for awhile, just never got around to my intro...

I am Angie, mama to 3 kids. A 9yo fully vaxed, 4 yo vaxed but no cp, and

unvaxxed 8 mo. I am SO confused. I dont know what to do. In my heart I

feel I should not vax her, but in the back of my mind I am thinking " what

if? " What if she gets something I could have vaxxed her for, but at the

same time thinking " what if she has a reaction I could have prevented "

sigh..........

Anyway, I had 2 thoughts Why cant I not vax, then if there is an outbreak,

get the vax? Isnt this how they got rid of smallpox? And I dont mean me

personally, I mean in general.....

And another one..... I keep readng about how great nutrition is key in not

catching diseases... I try to eat healthy, but we dont eat the best we

could. Should this have an impact on my choice of vaccinating or not? We

eat out when we feel like it, eat meat, etc , but i try to balance this

with healthy choices.

I am enjoying all I have read so far and look forward to learning more..

Thanks, Angie

[Guest guest]

Hi Angie, We have considered relocating up to northern California also. What

is the name of the town? What's the cost of living like? We are in Santa

Clarita Valley right now. We came from a small farming town in Massachusetts

and REALLY miss the country. Is it GREEN up where your moving to? We're in

the desert and I HATE the sand. I want trees and Grass and fresh air again!

Thanks soooo much!

Porsche Snyder MoM of 5, Wife to 1

[Guest guest]

Hi Angie, Thanks a bunch for the information! How far is it from LA County?

I'm in Santa Clarita....is it on the coast or inland? And does it get real

hot in the summer? Curious about the cost of houses and cost of living there.

I wonder if there is a need for our services. I am an AVON IND. REP (AND I

SIGN PEOPLE UP TO SELL AVON), AND we have a Limousine service, with Wedding

consulting/Event planning. Is this town near any major cities? Thanks a

bunch! Could really use the help! Porsche Snyder

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the reply. I just keep reading, waiting for that moment where I

KNOW I am right! Can someone receommend a good book on this subject? I get

really frustrated wading through online stuff, so maybe a book would be easier

for me to read.

I also had the pleasure opf attending a La Leche League conference and heard Dr

Sears speak on vaccines. He gave a very unbiased, neutral talk on all the

vaccines, ingredients, all the diseases, side effects, etc. It was very

informative and helped alot.

One other question I had is... Does it matter what area you live in if you

choose to vax or not? Right now we live in San Diego, and my husband expresses

concern over the illegal immigrants from Mexico bringing diseases up. Is this a

valid concern? In the next couple months when our house sells, we are moving to

Northern california to a much less populated area. Actually, if we get the house

we want we will be living in a tiny town with a population of 200 people. My

husband said if we live there, then no, he wouldnt worry about disease. What do

you think of this?

Thanks for your time!

Angie

Re: My intro and some thoughts

Welcome to the group Angie. It is normal to feel confused when you first

decide not to vax. Your instincts are telling you not to vax and I think

you should follow that. Yes, your child could get a disease but they could

also get the disease if they are vaccinated too. You need to learn about

the diseases if you vax or not. You will become more comfortable in your

decision over time and the more you learn. This group has been invaluable

to me and I have no doubts about my decision to not vax anymore.

I believe the smallpox vax can be given up to 5 days after exposure but I

am not sure if that works with the other diseases or not. You might want to

look into homeopathy instead to help you through any disease if you or you

child should get something.

Eating healthy is very important but in my opinion, you have more of a

reason to not get vaxed if your diet is less than perfect. Why would you

want to put even more junk into your body?

What state are you in?

Jodi

[Guest guest]

Hi,

We are moving to Humboldt county. HOPEFULLY we will be living in Leggett, a very

tiny town. VERY green up there, it is redwood country. Trees everywhere! If we

cant get the house we are looking at, we will be in the Eureka area. It really

is gorgeous up there, if you havent been there, everyone should at least take a

vacation there!

Angie

Re: My intro and some thoughts

Hi Angie, We have considered relocating up to northern California also. What

is the name of the town? What's the cost of living like? We are in Santa

Clarita Valley right now. We came from a small farming town in Massachusetts

and REALLY miss the country. Is it GREEN up where your moving to? We're in

the desert and I HATE the sand. I want trees and Grass and fresh air again!

Thanks soooo much!

Porsche Snyder MoM of 5, Wife to 1

[Guest guest]

Hi , what part of Mass are you in? We just relocated to California from

there about a year ago. We lived 1/2 hour from Sprindfiend and about 1 hr. 15

minutes from Boston.

Porsche

[Guest guest]

We are moving to Humboldt county.

I love humboldt, especially Arcadia and Garberville! You are so lucky to be

bringing up your child in that area. I would be there in a heartbeat if I

didn't have ties in Massachusetts. Good luck

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

I know, part of the reason we are moving there is because it is such a great

place to bring up kids! If we are lucky, we will be living very close to

Garberville!

Angie

Re: My intro and some thoughts

We are moving to Humboldt county.

I love humboldt, especially Arcadia and Garberville! You are so lucky to be

bringing up your child in that area. I would be there in a heartbeat if I

didn't have ties in Massachusetts. Good luck

[Guest guest]

Thanks Liz, did it help with your decision making? If not how could I make it

better?

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

At 04:06 PM 10/12/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>I know, part of the reason we are moving there is because it is such a

great place to bring up kids! If we are lucky, we will be living very close

to Garberville!

>Angie

I used to live in Arcata - 1988ish.

Its lovely there and YES its green.

But don't go driving on any of the back roads - marijuana growers get a

little touchy

Sheri

> Re: My intro and some thoughts

>

>

>

> We are moving to Humboldt county.

>

> I love humboldt, especially Arcadia and Garberville! You are so lucky

to be

> bringing up your child in that area. I would be there in a heartbeat if I

> didn't have ties in Massachusetts. Good luck

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Angie,

Welcome to the group.

Here are a few responses to the questions you have asked.

You said:

" What if she gets something I could have vaxxed her for, but at the same

time thinking " what if she has a reaction I could have prevented "

sigh.......... "

First, all diseases are not created equal. And merely getting a disease

is not the same as having long-term consequences from a disease. So it

is important to learn about the diseases, particularly paying attention

to how they were characterized prior to a vaccine against it being

available. You will find that in many cases the diseases were

considered benign. I had many of them. Others were not common when I

was young - is that a function of the changing nature of disease, or

vaccines undermining our immune systems?

You said:

" Why cant I not vax, then if there is an outbreak, get the vax? Isnt

this how they got rid of smallpox? "

Smallpox vaccine is known to work even after exposure to a disease, but

I don't believe that is the case with all the vaccines. However, if you

were to wait, in many cases, prior to exposure, that might be a good

strategy, but I'm not sure about that. It is important to bear in mind,

though, that getting the vaccine will not necessarily prevent the

disease. Moreover, it will in many cases allow for a mild or

subclinical case of the disease, which may or may not be a good thing.

Remember, merely getting an antibody response is not the same as being

" immunized " against getting the disease. The only way to know, really,

if the vaccine is working is to compare those who did and did not

receive the vaccine, and then be sure both groups had equal exposure to

the disease in question. Obviously that is not being done, so we never

really know how effective the vaccine is. But again, even if it

prevents a full-blown case, that is not necessarily a good thing. You

might want to read a couple of my columns on this:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/may%5F31%5F02/scandal18.htm

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july%5F5%5F02/scandals23.htm

You said:

" ..... I keep readng about how great nutrition is key in not catching

diseases... I try to eat healthy, but we dont eat the best we could.

Should this have an impact on my choice of vaccinating or not? We eat

out when we feel like it, eat meat, etc , but i try to balance this with

healthy choices. "

There is really no substitute for taking care of yourself. There is no

magic bullet which can make up for that, in my opinion.

Hope this helps, at least a little.

Sandy from Alaska

http://www.vaccinationnews.com

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/past_scandals.htm

http://www.whale.to

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

http://www.909shot.com

http://www.redflagsweekly.com

http://www.thinktwice.com

http://home.san.rr.com/via/

http://www.vaccine-info.com

http://www.vaccine-info.com http://healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED

HERE IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED

AS REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO

BE CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE

AND SHOULD BE MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR

HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

IN ADDITION, THE FACT THAT THIS EMAIL HAS BEEN FORWARDED IN NO WAY

NECESSARILY IMPLIES ENDORSEMENT OF THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE AUTHOR OR

AUTHORS OF THE ARTICLE OR EMAIL.

My intro and some thoughts

I have been reading here for awhile, just never got around to my

intro...

I am Angie, mama to 3 kids. A 9yo fully vaxed, 4 yo vaxed but no cp, and

unvaxxed 8 mo. I am SO confused. I dont know what to do. In my heart I

feel I should not vax her, but in the back of my mind I am thinking

" what if? " What if she gets something I could have vaxxed her for, but

at the same time thinking " what if she has a reaction I could have

prevented " sigh..........

Anyway, I had 2 thoughts Why cant I not vax, then if there is an

outbreak, get the vax? Isnt this how they got rid of smallpox? And I

dont mean me personally, I mean in general.....

And another one..... I keep readng about how great nutrition is key in

not catching diseases... I try to eat healthy, but we dont eat the best

we could. Should this have an impact on my choice of vaccinating or not?

We eat out when we feel like it, eat meat, etc , but i try to balance

this with healthy choices.

I am enjoying all I have read so far and look forward to learning more..

Thanks, Angie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/13/02 8:02:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mlandes2@... writes:

> I am SO confused. I dont know what to do. In my heart I feel I should not

> vax her, but in the back of my mind I am thinking " what if? " What if she

> gets something I could have vaxxed her for, but at the same time thinking

> " what if she has a reaction I could have prevented " sigh..........

>

>

>

>

>

These are EXACTLY my thoughts every day. You can't beat yourself up. Just

know you are making the best decision and try not to look at the " what

ifs... " and keep learning.

Jenni )

mom to austin 4-24-02

&

dazey (my 4-legged child)

wife to joe 7-29-00

[Guest guest]

In my opinion and what influenced me, was " what are the chances of my child

DYING from a disease vs the chances of irreparable harm from a vaccine? " I felt

comfortable in the current medical practice if for some reason my child were to

have a complicationn from a disease but now I am against conventional treatment

and have faith in Homeopathy. Plus, a vaccine is not a 100% guarantee that one

is protected against a disease...can't even tell ya FOR SURE that if they do

contact a disease despite full vaxxing, that the symptoms will be milder.

Laurie>Oh

I am SO confused. I dont know what to do. In my heart I feel I should not vax

her, but in the back of my mind I am thinking " what if? " What if she gets

something I could have vaxxed her for, but at the same time thinking " what if

she has a reaction I could have prevented " sigh..........

[Guest guest]

LOL!!! Ya, just leave the growers alone! They dont bother me, it's still better

than the big city life!

angie

Re: My intro and some thoughts

>

>

>

> We are moving to Humboldt county.

>

> I love humboldt, especially Arcadia and Garberville! You are so lucky

to be

> bringing up your child in that area. I would be there in a heartbeat if I

> didn't have ties in Massachusetts. Good luck

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know what, I have read some sites(Thansk for the link ) and Sherris

site and already I feel I have learned so much! I have read about the diseases,

and thye dont sound so bad to me now. I realized I was scared of something I

didnt know about. I also printed up some info for my hubby to read, but he

really doesnt seem interested. he seems to think whatever I feel is best is

okay.. I dont know if this is good or bad!

Thanks so much!

Angie

RE: My intro and some thoughts

Hi Angie,

Welcome to the group.

Here are a few responses to the questions you have asked.

You said:

" What if she gets something I could have vaxxed her for, but at the same

time thinking " what if she has a reaction I could have prevented "

sigh.......... "

First, all diseases are not created equal. And merely getting a disease

is not the same as having long-term consequences from a disease. So it

is important to learn about the diseases, particularly paying attention

to how they were characterized prior to a vaccine against it being

available. You will find that in many cases the diseases were

considered benign. I had many of them. Others were not common when I

was young - is that a function of the changing nature of disease, or

vaccines undermining our immune systems?

You said:

" Why cant I not vax, then if there is an outbreak, get the vax? Isnt

this how they got rid of smallpox? "

Smallpox vaccine is known to work even after exposure to a disease, but

I don't believe that is the case with all the vaccines. However, if you

were to wait, in many cases, prior to exposure, that might be a good

strategy, but I'm not sure about that. It is important to bear in mind,

though, that getting the vaccine will not necessarily prevent the

disease. Moreover, it will in many cases allow for a mild or

subclinical case of the disease, which may or may not be a good thing.

Remember, merely getting an antibody response is not the same as being

" immunized " against getting the disease. The only way to know, really,

if the vaccine is working is to compare those who did and did not

receive the vaccine, and then be sure both groups had equal exposure to

the disease in question. Obviously that is not being done, so we never

really know how effective the vaccine is. But again, even if it

prevents a full-blown case, that is not necessarily a good thing. You

might want to read a couple of my columns on this:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/may%5F31%5F02/scandal18.htm

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/scandals/july%5F5%5F02/scandals23.htm

You said:

" ..... I keep readng about how great nutrition is key in not catching

diseases... I try to eat healthy, but we dont eat the best we could.

Should this have an impact on my choice of vaccinating or not? We eat

out when we feel like it, eat meat, etc , but i try to balance this with

healthy choices. "

There is really no substitute for taking care of yourself. There is no

magic bullet which can make up for that, in my opinion.

Hope this helps, at least a little.

Sandy from Alaska

[Guest guest]

I know I have a real problem with those " what if's " . I just wish I could quit

worrying and have total faith in all my decisions......

Re: My intro and some thoughts

In a message dated 10/13/02 8:02:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mlandes2@... writes:

> I am SO confused. I dont know what to do. In my heart I feel I should not

> vax her, but in the back of my mind I am thinking " what if? " What if she

> gets something I could have vaxxed her for, but at the same time thinking

> " what if she has a reaction I could have prevented " sigh..........

>

>

>

>

>

These are EXACTLY my thoughts every day. You can't beat yourself up. Just

know you are making the best decision and try not to look at the " what

ifs... " and keep learning.

Jenni )

mom to austin 4-24-02

&

dazey (my 4-legged child)

wife to joe 7-29-00

[Guest guest]

We have all been there..ask away and we will help! NY favorite and most easy

way to know that you have made the right decision not to vax is.....imagine

if you will a shot just full of the adjuvants..ie thimerosal, antifreeze,

formaldehyde, MSG, brilliant dye ect.... if you gave your child that shot you

would be put in jail as a criminal attempting murder. If you add a live or

dead virus to that concoction you are called a doctor and a healer! Make

sense?

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

Liz, That's great! Let us see your flyer!

[Guest guest]

i don't vaccinate my kids ... and i think about this as well. but i've

learned to just let it go. either way, i would have some doubts. they are

good to have. they keep me researching the information and living a healthy

lifestyle. no one knows the answers with real certainty.

i have a girlfriend who gave in to her doubts. intuitively she did not want

her children to have the shots but was so worried all the time that she

finally did. after the MMR shot, her smallest started showing signs of

autism. she now lives with the guilt of having given the shot when she knew

in her heart not too.

you have time to decide. the diseases are not just lurking outside your

house waiting to pounce on your kids before you vaccinate or whatever,

take the time to make sure you are doing what you want.

good luck!

mandi

-- Re: My intro and some thoughts

I know I have a real problem with those " what if's " . I just wish I could quit

worrying and have total faith in all my decisions......

Re: My intro and some thoughts

In a message dated 10/13/02 8:02:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mlandes2@... writes:

> I am SO confused. I dont know what to do. In my heart I feel I should not

> vax her, but in the back of my mind I am thinking " what if? " What if she

> gets something I could have vaxxed her for, but at the same time thinking

> " what if she has a reaction I could have prevented " sigh..........

>

>

>

>

>

These are EXACTLY my thoughts every day. You can't beat yourself up. Just

know you are making the best decision and try not to look at the " what

ifs... " and keep learning.

Jenni )

mom to austin 4-24-02

&

dazey (my 4-legged child)

wife to joe 7-29-00

[Guest guest]

I give out the link to your website on a regular basisbecause it's

easy to read, and dones't have tons and tons of medical terms. It's

written for people like me who would have to look up most of the

medical stuff.

nisha

> <A HREF= " http://www.theforgotten.com/vaccines/ " >Click here: Home

Page</A> My website on vaccines is easy reading

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> In my opinion and what influenced me, was " what are the chances of

my child DYING from a disease vs the chances of irreparable harm from

a vaccine? "

For me, it wasn't just that my child could die from the disease or

the vaxes, it was the chance that they would severely harmed from

either. That is what I tried to compare. I checked the CDC disease

rolodex, for cases of diseases routinely vaxed for, and compared

those numbers to the numbers on the vax inserts for the severe

reactions, not just death. It was very one sided to me. For instance,

the year I looked at, there were 18 cases of measles that year. 18

CASES In the whole freakin US. There was much more of a chance of my

children getting a severe reaction(losing thier hearing, sight,

becoming autistic, paralysis, nerve damage, allergies, all kinds of

things)than them getting the disease which is not usually fatal

unless you have a compromised immune system anyway. But that is what

really decided things for me. Then Ihad to convince my husband. That

was a whole nother battle.LOL

Nisha

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nisha! I try and keep it that way!

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

Can someone recommend a good book on this subject?

I can recommend several books:

Vaccinations 100 years of orthodox research by Viera Scheibner

Vaccinations: A thoughtful parent's guide: How to make safe, sensible,

decisions about the risks, benefits, and alternatives by Aviva Jill Romm

The vaccine guide: Making an informed choice by Randall Neustaedter

Vaccines: Are they really safe and effective by Neil Z.

The sanctity of human blood: Vaccination is not immunization by Tim O'Shea

Vaccination: The issues of our times by Peggy O'Mara of Mothering magazine

How to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor by Mendelsohn

Smart medicine for a healthier child by Janet Zand

Superimmunity for kids by Leo Galland

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/17/02 6:32:45 AM, Jodi_L_Elenteny@... writes:

<< Vaccinations: A thoughtful parent's guide: How to make safe, sensible,

decisions about the risks, benefits, and alternatives by Aviva Jill Romm >>

I just picked this one up...

Martialia

SAHM to Isabelle (12.10.98) and (9.22.01)

www.nurturebynature.org