Re: New and a few questions

April 27, 2007

In a message dated 4/27/2007 10:48:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

kristi03@... writes:

LIke with me, if I didn't let medical

technology intervene in her birth we'd both we dead and maybe this is what

nature intended but I personally didn't want both of us to die so I took the

medical route...

would you mind sharing your story of the birth?

Holly

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

April 28, 2007

Ok our birth story- basically I developed HELLP Syndrome (HELLP is short for

Hemolysis (destruction of red blood cells), Elevated Liver enzymes (which

indicate liver damage), and Low Platelet count) around 34 weeks, delivered

her at 35 1/2 weeks. The pregnancy seemed fine but I was swelling A LOT the

entire time and gained a lot of weight, even though I ate healthy 80+% of

the time. BP and all that were fine except for once around 28 or so weeks,

from then on I just did reflexology on myself prior to each visit and BP was

fine after that, blood work and urine always came out fine, I did have a few

visual disturbances but I just blew that off because I didn't want any

interventions- we were doing the Bradley classes- to finish around my 40th

week--.

I did see one of the other OB's in my practice around 33 weeks I think, she

just told me to stop eating so many carbs, then I saw a midwife around week

34 1/2 but she said I looked great- now that I look back at pictures I was

swollen SO bad I dont know why no one noticed- my eye lids were puffy, my

voice was hoarse (later I learned from my throat swelling) just everything,

it was horrible. I also threw up that week and I hadn't thrown up the entire

pregnancy but I just blew that off too. I also had head to toe acne really

bad the entire pregnancy and that didnt go away until 6-8 months post

partum.

At 35 1/2 weeks I had to put my 16 yr old cat to sleep one day, it was an

extrememly stressful day, to try to take my mind off of it I moved furniture

around, later that night I had really bad upper abdominal pain (later found

out this was the liver swelling and could have burst), but I was trying to

ignore the pain, I ended up throwing up again- thought that was normal, then

a few hrs later I had some bleeding and that clicked with me that something

wasn't right, I was suppossed to see my dr the next day but I decided to

call just to see if he was on call, luckily he was because if the other OB

that I couldn't stand had been on call I would have stayed home. Anyway so I

go in, it was 11:30 PM, he took one look at me, ran a few tests and

basically rushed me into a c section- my BP was something crazy like

200/125, I just told them their machines must be wrong, they said the

placenta had separated and the baby hadn't even dropped yet so I was no

where near delivery, they thought I was about to go into seizures because of

how bad my blood work and BP were- at the time I thought this all was just

crazy hospital protocol so I didn't take it seriously, only later when I

talked to my dr and did my own research did I realize how serious it all

was.

They rushed in to hook me up to IV's but couldn't find a vein because I was

so swollen so they were calling in all these other nurses, none could find a

vein, finally one of them was able to- (again at the time I just thought

they were all idiots), when they weren't looking I'd sneak water because I

was SO thirsty and they wouldn't even let me have ice!, they hooked me up to

a lot of machines, they thought they were going to have to do a transfusion

because my blood count was so low and they were afraid my liver was going to

burst (again at the time I just thought this was overprotective protocol and

paid it no attention), the anesthesiologist refused to be there without a

backup during the surgery so they were running around trying to find the

backup, my OB was getting worried, I had to be completely put under because

of everything and no one allowed in the room- since DH didn't have cameras

or anything he just went home to get them during the surgery, we had brought

nothing with us because we didn't think we'd be having the baby THEN! I had

even worked that day and still had clients the next day. She was born at

almost 3 AM and was totally fine, 5 lbs but breathing on her own, in fact

they say she came out screaming which is very rare for a preemie born to

HELLP. THey woke me up right afterwards, they said it had been really hard

to get the tube down my throat because it was almost swollen shut and that

my blood work was really bad, they had me on so many meds. I was so groggy

when I woke up, for probably the first 24 hrs so I don't have a strong

memory of my first day with her, I do remember nursing her the first time I

saw her and calling all my clients and family the next morning but I just

barely remember it all.

I felt REALLY dizzy really for months afterwards but thought this was normal

for giving birth, I had a long long recovery but didn't k now any different.

We were in the hospital for about 5 days until my BP stablized some and I

was able to walk a little bit and I had to use that lung exerciser too. She

exclusively breastfed even with all the meds, I figured this was still

better than formula.

I had to be on meds for a few months afterwards and it took a few yrs to

almost feel normal (or the new " normal " again). Come to find out later that

most HELLP babies and/or moms don't make it or have it way way worse than I

did, we were a rare case and my OB still using my case in his teaching

examples and his students still study it..., so that's why I think this has

a lot to possibly do with any issues my dd might have, and it also

completely scares me for trying for a 2nd one.. we still haven't fully

decided that yet. I'd have to be very highly monitored, definitely have to

have another hospital birth and I'm just not sure if I want to stress of all

that while taking care of another child who depends on me, PLus I've also

learned that HELLP can occur after childbirth too which is really scary!

************

If breastfeeding in public disturbs you, please feel free to put a blanket

over your head or go finish your meal in the restroom.

************

Kristi B. , LMT, BA, MBA

Healing Waters Therapy

(904) 886-0847

www.healingwaterstherapy.com

April 28, 2007

Hi Kristi --

Wow, have you been through a lot, and I can certainly understand your

concern.

My kids are older and both are partially vaxed. They've both had chicken

pox (DD had it twice), and DS also had whopping cough (he's wasn't fully

vaxed for this as his severe allergic reaction to the DPT vax was my wake-up

call). Anyway, he got whooping cough when it went around our area (almost

all that got it were fully vaxed). As for me, I was raised in the day when

moms sent their kids to play with the sick kids " so you got it over with

while you were young. " I did have almost all of the childhood diseases, but

I would not recommend exposing them that way now.

This group has great info, so you might want to search through the archives

and follow the new posts. Deciding to vax or not, is huge, and both can

have consequences, so making an educated decision is important.

I wish you all the best.

Health & blessings,

In Harmony with Nature & Good Health

http://www.shaklee.net/ExcitingHealth

1-866-312-8064

On 4/28/07, Kristi <kristi03@...> wrote:

>

> Ok our birth story- basically I developed HELLP Syndrome (HELLP is short

> for

> Hemolysis (destruction of red blood cells), Elevated Liver enzymes (which

> indicate liver damage), and Low Platelet count) around 34 weeks, delivered

> her at 35 1/2 weeks. The pregnancy seemed fine but I was swelling A LOT

> the

> entire time and gained a lot of weight, even though I ate healthy 80+% of

> the time. BP and all that were fine except for once around 28 or so weeks,

> from then on I just did reflexology on myself prior to each visit and BP

> was

> fine after that, blood work and urine always came out fine, I did have a

> few

> visual disturbances but I just blew that off because I didn't want any

> interventions- we were doing the Bradley classes- to finish around my 40th

> week--.

>

> I did see one of the other OB's in my practice around 33 weeks I think,

> she

> just told me to stop eating so many carbs, then I saw a midwife around

> week

> 34 1/2 but she said I looked great- now that I look back at pictures I was

> swollen SO bad I dont know why no one noticed- my eye lids were puffy, my

> voice was hoarse (later I learned from my throat swelling) just

> everything,

> it was horrible. I also threw up that week and I hadn't thrown up the

> entire

> pregnancy but I just blew that off too. I also had head to toe acne really

> bad the entire pregnancy and that didnt go away until 6-8 months post

> partum.

>

> At 35 1/2 weeks I had to put my 16 yr old cat to sleep one day, it was an

> extrememly stressful day, to try to take my mind off of it I moved

> furniture

> around, later that night I had really bad upper abdominal pain (later

> found

> out this was the liver swelling and could have burst), but I was trying

> to

> ignore the pain, I ended up throwing up again- thought that was normal,

> then

> a few hrs later I had some bleeding and that clicked with me that

> something

> wasn't right, I was suppossed to see my dr the next day but I decided to

> call just to see if he was on call, luckily he was because if the other OB

> that I couldn't stand had been on call I would have stayed home. Anyway so

> I

> go in, it was 11:30 PM, he took one look at me, ran a few tests and

> basically rushed me into a c section- my BP was something crazy like

> 200/125, I just told them their machines must be wrong, they said the

> placenta had separated and the baby hadn't even dropped yet so I was no

> where near delivery, they thought I was about to go into seizures because

> of

> how bad my blood work and BP were- at the time I thought this all was just

> crazy hospital protocol so I didn't take it seriously, only later when I

> talked to my dr and did my own research did I realize how serious it all

> was.

>

> They rushed in to hook me up to IV's but couldn't find a vein because I

> was

> so swollen so they were calling in all these other nurses, none could find

> a

> vein, finally one of them was able to- (again at the time I just thought

> they were all idiots), when they weren't looking I'd sneak water because I

> was SO thirsty and they wouldn't even let me have ice!, they hooked me up

> to

> a lot of machines, they thought they were going to have to do a

> transfusion

> because my blood count was so low and they were afraid my liver was going

> to

> burst (again at the time I just thought this was overprotective protocol

> and

> paid it no attention), the anesthesiologist refused to be there without a

> backup during the surgery so they were running around trying to find the

> backup, my OB was getting worried, I had to be completely put under

> because

> of everything and no one allowed in the room- since DH didn't have cameras

> or anything he just went home to get them during the surgery, we had

> brought

> nothing with us because we didn't think we'd be having the baby THEN! I

> had

> even worked that day and still had clients the next day. She was born at

> almost 3 AM and was totally fine, 5 lbs but breathing on her own, in fact

> they say she came out screaming which is very rare for a preemie born to

> HELLP. THey woke me up right afterwards, they said it had been really hard

> to get the tube down my throat because it was almost swollen shut and that

> my blood work was really bad, they had me on so many meds. I was so groggy

> when I woke up, for probably the first 24 hrs so I don't have a strong

> memory of my first day with her, I do remember nursing her the first time

> I

> saw her and calling all my clients and family the next morning but I just

> barely remember it all.

>

> I felt REALLY dizzy really for months afterwards but thought this was

> normal

> for giving birth, I had a long long recovery but didn't k now any

> different.

> We were in the hospital for about 5 days until my BP stablized some and I

> was able to walk a little bit and I had to use that lung exerciser too.

> She

> exclusively breastfed even with all the meds, I figured this was still

> better than formula.

>

> I had to be on meds for a few months afterwards and it took a few yrs to

> almost feel normal (or the new " normal " again). Come to find out later

> that

> most HELLP babies and/or moms don't make it or have it way way worse than

> I

> did, we were a rare case and my OB still using my case in his teaching

> examples and his students still study it..., so that's why I think this

> has

> a lot to possibly do with any issues my dd might have, and it also

> completely scares me for trying for a 2nd one.. we still haven't fully

> decided that yet. I'd have to be very highly monitored, definitely have to

> have another hospital birth and I'm just not sure if I want to stress of

> all

> that while taking care of another child who depends on me, PLus I've also

> learned that HELLP can occur after childbirth too which is really scary!

>

> ************

> If breastfeeding in public disturbs you, please feel free to put a blanket

> over your head or go finish your meal in the restroom.

>

> ************

>

> Kristi B. , LMT, BA, MBA

> Healing Waters Therapy

> (904) 886-0847

> www.healingwaterstherapy.com

April 28, 2007

I am no expert, but I have come to gradually have a view that no

vaccine is safe and that the risks from the vaccine far outweigh

those of the diseases.

One thing to think about is that many adults are running around

without immunity to diseases like measles, but you don't see huge

outbreaks. For example, I was probably vaccinated for measles, but

any protection provided from the vaccine I received would not still

be there. And by the way, it was not real immunity to start with,

you will want to learn more about this. Start by learning more

about our immune system and what happens when we are vaccinated.

Anyway, you don't see us adults running out to get vaccinated, so

you really don't need to worry about this anymore than you yourself

would worry that you might get measles or other diseases.

Tetanus was the one I was most worried about, but learning a bit

more about it, my fears have lessoned and I feel there is more of a

chance for vaccine reaction than for a child to get tetanus. A

child will not get tetanus from a scrape. It has to be a puncture

wound and the item that does the puncturing has to have tetanus on

it. The bodies natural defenses of bleeding, will limit the likely

hood even more. You just have to look at the odds on this one.

I wouldn't even begin to compare the medical intervention from your

birth to that of vaccines. (Thanks for sharing your birth story

too, by the way). Yours was a medical emergency, vaccines are far

from that, and actually cause alot of medical emergencies. The

problems with vaccines go much deeper than the average person

realizes.

As for cancer, vaccines are not the only thing that can initiate

cancer (or other health problems for that matter). Vaccines are

just one of the things that we do to our bodies that can lead to

health problems. Add onto that the foods we eat, the air we breath,

the meds we take, etc. For children/infants who are developing

their immune system, vaccines just happen to be the thing that does

the most damage at this young age.

There is so much to learn about this, you are just starting to

learn. As you learn more though, I think you will begin to fear the

diseases less and the vaccines more.

Tara

>

> Ok my first question from my reading so far is that if it's better

for kids

> below age 10 to get the diseases like measles, mumps, etc where

are they

> going to get it from?? I haven't gotten the MMR for my 4 yr old

but I won't

> purposely take her around someone with either of those

diseases..... so then

> when she hits 10 if she hasnt had them and the titer tests don't

show

> immunity do I get her the vaccines then???

>

> 2nd things like tetnus that are very serious if they get it,

what's worse

> that or the vaccine? Suppossedly there isn't much tetnus out there

BUT kids

> do get scraps outside all the time so it is very possible and

stuff like

> that worries me...same with overseas travel- not that we plan to

anytime

> soon, but what if and when we do?

>

> 3rd I'm all for the nature debate about how science can't win over

nature

> and shouldn't play God and all that, and I do believe nature has

built in

> population control, and I'm all for that, BUT if it's my own child

then

> obviously I can't accept that. LIke with me, if I didn't let

medical

> technology intervene in her birth we'd both we dead and maybe this

is what

> nature intended but I personally didn't want both of us to die so

I took the

> medical route...

>

> I know years ago people could isolate themselves on a farm and stay

> quarantined when a mass outbreak occurred, but now adays thats'

not reality,

> at least not for us, like that bird flu scare, if a vaccine could

prevent

> that then in some ways I think it's good... but I don't agree with

the mass

> vaccinations at such a young age!

>

> And also on the cancer debate, I do believe that vaccines can

cause cancer,

> but also cancer (tumors) were discovered in the ancient egyptians

thousands

> of years ago long before vaccines, but I haven't recently looked

up a

> history of cancer.

>

> So anyway all that said that's why this is still hard to decide

for me

> because I am freaked over vaccine dangers but I also am freaked

over certain

> diseases....

>

> ************

>

> Kristi B. , LMT, BA, MBA

> Healing Waters Therapy

> (904) 886-0847

> www.healingwaterstherapy.com

>

April 28, 2007

SO what do I do about the vaccines she's already gotten? She's had

ALL of them expect the MMR, mainly because I really didn't know, at

that time I'd read nothing , our Bradley class didn't mention it, I

didn't know anyone at all that didn't vaccinate, and all the books I

had, even Dr Sears books, were all for it, so I thought it was the

right thing to do, I made sure they were primarily thimerosol free

and all that but that's all I knew to do, after the first few rounds

of them I read more aobut spacing them out and so I did that, only

around a year did I finally meet moms that didn't vaccinate and I

learned so much more that I'd never even seen before or read about

anywhere and that's when I stopped, but it does bother me the ones

she's had already but again I just didn't know......

> >

> > Ok my first question from my reading so far is that if it's

better

> for kids

> > below age 10 to get the diseases like measles, mumps, etc where

> are they

> > going to get it from?? I haven't gotten the MMR for my 4 yr old

> but I won't

> > purposely take her around someone with either of those

> diseases..... so then

> > when she hits 10 if she hasnt had them and the titer tests don't

> show

> > immunity do I get her the vaccines then???

> >

> > 2nd things like tetnus that are very serious if they get it,

> what's worse

> > that or the vaccine? Suppossedly there isn't much tetnus out

there

> BUT kids

> > do get scraps outside all the time so it is very possible and

> stuff like

> > that worries me...same with overseas travel- not that we plan to

> anytime

> > soon, but what if and when we do?

> >

> > 3rd I'm all for the nature debate about how science can't win

over

> nature

> > and shouldn't play God and all that, and I do believe nature has

> built in

> > population control, and I'm all for that, BUT if it's my own

child

> then

> > obviously I can't accept that. LIke with me, if I didn't let

> medical

> > technology intervene in her birth we'd both we dead and maybe

this

> is what

> > nature intended but I personally didn't want both of us to die so

> I took the

> > medical route...

> >

> > I know years ago people could isolate themselves on a farm and

stay

> > quarantined when a mass outbreak occurred, but now adays thats'

> not reality,

> > at least not for us, like that bird flu scare, if a vaccine could

> prevent

> > that then in some ways I think it's good... but I don't agree

with

> the mass

> > vaccinations at such a young age!

> >

> > And also on the cancer debate, I do believe that vaccines can

> cause cancer,

> > but also cancer (tumors) were discovered in the ancient egyptians

> thousands

> > of years ago long before vaccines, but I haven't recently looked

> up a

> > history of cancer.

> >

> > So anyway all that said that's why this is still hard to decide

> for me

> > because I am freaked over vaccine dangers but I also am freaked

> over certain

> > diseases....

> >

> > ************

> >

> > Kristi B. , LMT, BA, MBA

> > Healing Waters Therapy

> > (904) 886-0847

> > www.healingwaterstherapy.com

> >

>

April 28, 2007

I don't know that there is anything you can do. I vaxed my son up

till he was 1 year before I started any research, before this, I had

no clue that what I was doing could be harmful. I thought the worst

that could happen would be a fever, and that some kids might have an

allergic reaction. At least that is what the handouts they gave me

said. So much for informed consent.

After my initial research into vaxing, I was just going to delay the

rest of his vaccines, so I wasn't sure what to do about the shots he

had already had. If I waited, would the vaccinations still work with

the time lag? Would he get sick from one of these diseases? After

learning more, I realize that the vaccines don't work the way I

thought they did, so I decided not to vax at all. There is more to it

than that, but I guess that is what it comes down to.

I know you have a lot of questions going through your mind right now,

and only time will help answer them. You are safe to give no more

vaccines until you are confident in a decision that you make. I just

kept delaying and researching and here I am today, and I am still

learning more.

One thing you may also want to look into is a more natural approach to

health care. I have learned alot about homeopathy since joining the

group. I have also been learning about eating healthier and living

healthier. I have a long way to go still. The reason I mention this

is that in the event that your child does get sick with a disease

(whether vaxed or not), you will want to have some of this info to

help them get through safely. Once you learn some of these natural

approaches, it also makes the diseases less scary (many of the

complications from the diseases are from medical intervention, like

fever reducers and antibiotics) because they work against the body.

Hope this helps some. Mainly I just wanted to say that is probably

going to take some time to learn what you can, the info is available,

you just have to take it all in.

Tara

>

> SO what do I do about the vaccines she's already gotten?

April 28, 2007

Hi Kristi --

I think you just move forward from this point -- educating yourself about

vaccines and doing what you feel is right. But I would work on building

your daughter's immune system so that if she does get something, whether it

be a cold, the flu, chicken pox, or whatever, her body can fight it

effectively.

Health & blessings,

In Harmony with Nature & Good Health

http://www.shaklee.net/ExcitingHealth

1-866-312-8064

On 4/28/07, kristi3003 <kristi03@...> wrote:

>

> SO what do I do about the vaccines she's already gotten? She's had

> ALL of them expect the MMR, mainly because I really didn't know, at

> that time I'd read nothing , our Bradley class didn't mention it, I

> didn't know anyone at all that didn't vaccinate, and all the books I

> had, even Dr Sears books, were all for it, so I thought it was the

> right thing to do, I made sure they were primarily thimerosol free

> and all that but that's all I knew to do, after the first few rounds

> of them I read more aobut spacing them out and so I did that, only

> around a year did I finally meet moms that didn't vaccinate and I

> learned so much more that I'd never even seen before or read about

> anywhere and that's when I stopped, but it does bother me the ones

> she's had already but again I just didn't know......

>

> > >

> > > Ok my first question from my reading so far is that if it's

> better

> > for kids

> > > below age 10 to get the diseases like measles, mumps, etc where

> > are they

> > > going to get it from?? I haven't gotten the MMR for my 4 yr old

> > but I won't

> > > purposely take her around someone with either of those

> > diseases..... so then

> > > when she hits 10 if she hasnt had them and the titer tests don't

> > show

> > > immunity do I get her the vaccines then???

> > >

> > > 2nd things like tetnus that are very serious if they get it,

> > what's worse

> > > that or the vaccine? Suppossedly there isn't much tetnus out

> there

> > BUT kids

> > > do get scraps outside all the time so it is very possible and

> > stuff like

> > > that worries me...same with overseas travel- not that we plan to

> > anytime

> > > soon, but what if and when we do?

> > >

> > > 3rd I'm all for the nature debate about how science can't win

> over

> > nature

> > > and shouldn't play God and all that, and I do believe nature has

> > built in

> > > population control, and I'm all for that, BUT if it's my own

> child

> > then

> > > obviously I can't accept that. LIke with me, if I didn't let

> > medical

> > > technology intervene in her birth we'd both we dead and maybe

> this

> > is what

> > > nature intended but I personally didn't want both of us to die so

> > I took the

> > > medical route...

> > >

> > > I know years ago people could isolate themselves on a farm and stay

> > > quarantined when a mass outbreak occurred, but now adays thats'

> > not reality,

> > > at least not for us, like that bird flu scare, if a vaccine could

> > prevent

> > > that then in some ways I think it's good... but I don't agree with

> > the mass

> > > vaccinations at such a young age!

> > >

> > > And also on the cancer debate, I do believe that vaccines can

> > cause cancer,

> > > but also cancer (tumors) were discovered in the ancient egyptians

> > thousands

> > > of years ago long before vaccines, but I haven't recently looked

> > up a history of cancer.

> > >

> > > So anyway all that said that's why this is still hard to decide for me

> > > because I am freaked over vaccine dangers but I also am freaked

> > over certain diseases....

> > >

> > > ************

> > >

> > > Kristi B. , LMT, BA, MBA

> > > Healing Waters Therapy

> > > (904) 886-0847

> > > www.healingwaterstherapy.com

>

April 29, 2007

My cousin lost his wife/baby to this condition. Very serious indeed . . . .