fatty liver

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/7/02 12:24:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, gina413@... writes:

Debby and Cheryl: I have also been diagnosed with "fatty liver," now known technically as steatohepatitis.

I was doing some internet research and steatohepatitis is fatty liver, but it seems to be a more severe case.

<<<<Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is an increasingly recognized clinicopathological condition that may progress to end-stage liver disease. The pathological picture resembles that of alcohol-induced liver injury, but the disease occurs in patients who deny alcohol abuse. NAFLD involves a wide spectrum of liver damage, ranging from simple, uncomplicated steatosis, to steatohepatitis, to advanced fibrosis and cirrhosis. Nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH) represents a stage within the spectrum of NAFLD, and it is defined histologically by the presence of steatosis along with necroinflammatory activity, mostly of lobular distribution, regardless of the presence of fibrosis or Mallory’s hyaline. NAFLD must be differentiated from the steatosis with or without metabolic/genetic conditions. The diagnosis of NAFLD also requires the exclusion of other liver diseases that may present with steatosis, such as viral, autoimmune, and metabolic/hereditary liver disease, along with a thorough effort to exclude alcohol abuse. The clinical implications of NAFLD are derived mostly from its common occurrence in the general population, as well as its potential to progress to cirrhosis and liver failure.>>>

[Guest guest]

, you mention she "thought" it could be related? Gosh, get another opinion. I had my thyroid killed years ago too, but still have to take thyroid replacement. Hope you can get another opinion.

Debby

[ ] Fatty Liver

Hi All,Just got back from visit to specialist. She has diagnosed fatty liver of unknown cause and suggest 6 monthly LFTs. Some liver inflamation.Have been getting monthly LFTs for past 3 months. ANA was 1:1250, now 1:300. ALT has been 140 to 160 (usual max 40)and slightly elevated AST.As I have minimal alcohol intake, am not obese and not diabetic she suggested I forget about it. I asked about the bilirubin result but she said they don't do this test here. I have a high thyroid antibody level but no thyroid as it was killed by RAI for Graves Disease. She thought this could have something to do with the elevated ANA. Does the docs suggestion sound resonable?Thanks for your help.

[Guest guest]

Hi

About ten years ago, I was diagnosed with a fatty liver. They put me on a low low fat diet. 20 grams a day. I followed the diet religiously. My AST's and ALT's came down. As the variety went up and down throughout the years, so did my levels. MY doctor just referred to it as "well we know you have a norm of elevated levels."

Today, with AIH and diabetes, I can't help put wonder if there was something else I could have done. Or, my secret concern has always been was this just a pat diagnosis for not really knowing what was wrong. Who knows. My advice is to keep close watch.

Good luck

AIH, dx 1/02

[Guest guest]

..

You didnt mention if you had a biopsy or not. I agree with the others that this would be a good diagnostic tool for you if it has not already been done.

My LFTs have been slightly elevated for several years. After the birth of my 4th child I was treated with a high dose of steroids for a migraine headache. My numbers jumped into the 300's at that time. I had a biopsy done and it showed no evidence of AIH even though I too have an ANA of 1:160 and a low positive ASMA. It did show microvascular and macrovascular steatohepatitis that is consistant with fatty liver..and I do have mild fibrosis from it. So please dont let anyone tell you that a fatty liver is harmless and to just ingnore it..it can lead to cirrohsis.

With the high numbers I had symptoms of AIH...joint pain, fatigue...my doctor has told me that fatty liver can "mimic" AIH in many ways.

I have been on a low fat diet and exersize routine for 2 months now and have lost 40 pounds...I do feel somewhat better.

I agree that you should watch your numbers carefully, but I also think that a biopsy will help with a definate diagnosis. It can be a tricky call because steroids...( normally one of the treatments for AIH) make fatty liver considerably worse. So your doctor has to be sure of your disease before starting a treatment that can in the long run cause harm

Good luck.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

There is quite a few of us here who have heard the same 'fatty liver'

diagnosis. Though it can be caused by obesity or alcoholism, it can

have essentially no cause also. I too was told I had a fatty liver

several years ago, but the docs beleived it was just the steroids -

said it is not uncommon while on the higher doses. I have been off

of them for over a year, and no longer have a fatty liver. So they

must have been right. You may have all ready been told, as long as

it is not extreme, you can go on for the rest of your life with it

never being a problem.

Now as far as your thyroid goes, it can become a problem again even

after RAI to burn it out. My sister in law has had the RAI three

times, and is now hyper again. It can 'grow back' or rejuvenate

itself is what she has been told. She is in quite a pickle, since it

has come back and surgery is not an option for her due to the mass

and location of her thyroid. They seem to be tricky little buggers

with minds of there own. So watch out for those symptoms you know so

well of from when you were hyper. And like Debby said, it is common

practice here to be on a synthetic thyroid med after RAI, because

hypo can be just as bad as hyper over time. Not too mention how

crappy you feel when you are hypo.

I am not clear why your doc continues to test ANA, but not

bilirubin. ANA is a marker of the disease, but its level is not

indicative of severety of disease. It has been explained to me the

importance is only if you are positive ANA. I beleive this, since my

ANA level was very low at my Dx, yet my ALT/AST were in the thousands

(one was over 9000). When I was back to normal range on LFT's my ANA

was up and down. I also have family members with positive ANA higher

than mine, and have no autoimmune disease at all. I was told you

could have the ANA marker, and go an entire life time with out it

ever being a problem. But elevated bilirubin is a sign of

disfunction in the liver, be it temporary or permanent. Doctors tend

to lean towards the need of transplant when it is over 9. Though

that is not definate, because mine was over 20 at Dx, and is now in

normal range. There really are no definates with this or any other

disease for that matter. We are individual in our symptoms and

rapidity of disease. But one thing is for sure, it is a disease that

needs all LFT's kept on top of. It is great she is having your ALT

and AST done once a month, as your numbers are low enough to be that

far apart. But if they are rising it should be more often. And she

should be watching direct and total bilirubin and albumin just as

close is my understanding - Jerry? Maybe you want to jump in here?

, I agree with Debby here, I think it may be time to try and

find a new doc. Are you being treated by your personal physician, a

GI specialist or a hepatologist? I beleive with this disease it

really is prudent to be treated by a specialist - preferrably a

hepatologist. I know you said where you are located [in NZ] you

don't have an ability to be choosy with a doctor. This may be a time

when you need to forego convenience and travel a bit to get proper

treatment I think. If improperly treated, AIH can get out of control

and cause devistation to the liver quickly.

I know I am probably not giving you any peace of mind here, and I am

sorry. But many of us have done the musical doctor route, and can

pick up on the signs of an uninterested or inadiquately [AIH] trained

doc. I have been there myself, and now suffer the consequences of

that. It may very well have cost me years of my life. Not to

mention the thousands of dollars in medical bills it has all ready

cost me. I hope you are able to get the answers you so desperately

need. Good luck.

Love,

Carole K

[Guest guest]

, just wondering if you actually had AIH when the doctor thought it was fatty liver? Just curious, because that was what was wrong with me instead of the fatty liver. When you had your biopsy, did it show fatty liver?

debby

Re: [ ] Fatty Liver

Hi About ten years ago, I was diagnosed with a fatty liver. They put me on a low low fat diet. 20 grams a day. I followed the diet religiously. My AST's and ALT's came down. As the variety went up and down throughout the years, so did my levels. MY doctor just referred to it as "well we know you have a norm of elevated levels."Today, with AIH and diabetes, I can't help put wonder if there was something else I could have done. Or, my secret concern has always been was this just a pat diagnosis for not really knowing what was wrong. Who knows. My advice is to keep close watch. Good luckAIH, dx 1/02

[Guest guest]

Fatty liver was never mentioned to me after my biopsy. I have sat and pondered so many times whether I had AIH all the time when fatty liver was mentioned. But, that was back around 1992. Wouldnt I be in worse shape now then I am? Because I certainly was on no treatment.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

....

This is a good site on Fatty liver

http://www.uptodate.com/patient_info/topicpages/topics/Livr_dis/5305.asp?usd=986428425 & r=/patient_info/topicpages/topics/Livr_dis/5305.asp & app=mktg & server=www.uptodate.com

[Guest guest]

.... Elevated ANA can be an indication of many different

autoimmune conditions, lupus, RA, Sjogrens and even Thyroid problems.

RAi may have burned away your thyroid but a couple things can happen

....it grows back or you become hypothyroid and need replacemant

hormones.... juggling the hormone levels is tricky...I've heard.

Thyroiditis is also a consideration....... anyway this leads me to an

elevated ALT.... this enzyme while commonly related to the liver is

found in other parts of the body including GLANDS ....which is what the

thyroid is....now while higher ALTS (and ASTS) are indicators of liver

inflammation they can also be elevated with infections,fevers, and a

bunch of other stuff including many kinds of drug usage (prescribed) and

inflammation in glands. Elevated ALTS can also be a 'normal " condition

for some people or it can have no known cause at all. hile your ALTS are

high they are not real high sooo...?

We always forget tat while we call thee tests... alt,ast , billirubin

etc liver function tests they actually don't measure how a liver is

functioning at all...they just tell us that the liver is for some reason

releasing these enzymes...of course it probably means liver inflammation

but not necessrily.... they are useful when one has a known liver

condition such as AIH to tell us if the progress of the disease has been

slowed. In actuality the disease has perhaps not been halted but is

progressing, albeit, slowly. It is after all a chronic disease. " LFTS "

can be normal and probably is, in advanced cirrhosis and vice versa.

Obviously medicine is far fom being an exact science.

" Fatty liver " it has been found may have no etiology that can be blamed,

but rather may be just there and if it doen't progress to hepatitis (

and most often doesn't) it can be of no great worry.

Most " LFTS " include billirubin but billirubin levels doesn'tnecessarily

suggest inflammation but rather te back up for some reason of bile

acids....a very high bilirubin would present with jaundice. In your case

perhaps the doctor felt no need for billirubin levels, because he/she

was convinced that you probably didn't have a serious problem with your

liver. (Doctors can be wrong...no matter what they think)

Liver function is more accurately measured by albumin levels and pro

time tests..... they actualy tell you if the liver is working correctly

or not.

Summing up ... I think your doc feels that your thyroid condition and

the drugs for it and RAI etc. are the reason your ALTS and ANA are

elevated and that the fatty liver is just that and not of great concern.

Of course the best things to do , if it worries you, are get another

opinion, get your bloods done more often and for a definitive assessment

of the shape of your liver, have a biopsy done.

Remember this is just my amateur opinion as I am not a doctor and will

not be charging you. (too much) Also, this is not advice just

observations.

love jerry

CArole K... how was that for jumping in?

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

Jerry, my thyroid gland should be gone, I take a high full

replacement dose of thyroxine and my T4/T3/TSH levels are in range

and steady. They are checked 3 monthly.

It took me a long time to get diagnosed and treated for Graves

Disease because it is a womans disease and then I was started on a

high dose of beta blocker that nearly killed me. The doctor

apologised profusely but I don't trust them.

This last doctor in an internal medicine specialist with a interest

in the thyroid. She tells me that my thyroid antibodies are very high

which explains why my eyes keep swelling up. Perhaps that is why I

get all the other crappy symptoms.

My GP rang today wanting to see me before giving me another thyroxine

prescription (must have another payment due on his boat). I'll

prepare my questions and ask for a referral to a doctor in a large

city. Thanks for lessening my worries, Jerry.

> .... Elevated ANA can be an indication of many different

> autoimmune conditions, lupus, RA, Sjogrens and even Thyroid

problems.

> RAi may have burned away your thyroid but a couple things can happen

> ...it grows back or you become hypothyroid and need replacemant

> hormones.... juggling the hormone levels is tricky...I've heard.

> Thyroiditis is also a consideration....... anyway this leads me to

an

> elevated ALT.... this enzyme while commonly related to the liver is

> found in other parts of the body including GLANDS ....which is what

the

> thyroid is....now while higher ALTS (and ASTS) are indicators of

liver

> inflammation they can also be elevated with infections,fevers, and a

> bunch of other stuff including many kinds of drug usage

(prescribed) and

> inflammation in glands. Elevated ALTS can also be a 'normal "

condition

> for some people or it can have no known cause at all. hile your

ALTS are

> high they are not real high sooo...?

> We always forget tat while we call thee tests... alt,ast ,

billirubin

> etc liver function tests they actually don't measure how a liver is

> functioning at all...they just tell us that the liver is for some

reason

> releasing these enzymes...of course it probably means liver

inflammation

> but not necessrily.... they are useful when one has a known liver

> condition such as AIH to tell us if the progress of the disease has

been

> slowed. In actuality the disease has perhaps not been halted but is

> progressing, albeit, slowly. It is after all a chronic

disease. " LFTS "

> can be normal and probably is, in advanced cirrhosis and vice versa.

> Obviously medicine is far fom being an exact science.

> " Fatty liver " it has been found may have no etiology that can be

blamed,

> but rather may be just there and if it doen't progress to hepatitis

(

> and most often doesn't) it can be of no great worry.

> Most " LFTS " include billirubin but billirubin levels

doesn'tnecessarily

> suggest inflammation but rather te back up for some reason of bile

> acids....a very high bilirubin would present with jaundice. In your

case

> perhaps the doctor felt no need for billirubin levels, because

he/she

> was convinced that you probably didn't have a serious problem with

your

> liver. (Doctors can be wrong...no matter what they think)

> Liver function is more accurately measured by albumin levels and pro

> time tests..... they actualy tell you if the liver is working

correctly

> or not.

> Summing up ... I think your doc feels that your thyroid condition

and

> the drugs for it and RAI etc. are the reason your ALTS and ANA are

> elevated and that the fatty liver is just that and not of great

concern.

> Of course the best things to do , if it worries you, are get

another

> opinion, get your bloods done more often and for a definitive

assessment

> of the shape of your liver, have a biopsy done.

> Remember this is just my amateur opinion as I am not a doctor and

will

> not be charging you. (too much) Also, this is not advice just

> observations.

>

> love jerry

>

> CArole K... how was that for jumping in?

[Guest guest]

....either his boat or his Mercedes...

[Guest guest]

, I myself have wondered if my dx of fatty liver was AIH, wouldn't I have been worse? I had a dx of Drug induced Lupus in April of 99, when it was all along, AIH according to the blood test. However, it occurred to me that my AIH would have been worse when they officially dx it. It is a tough question . I just know that right now, I am better than before on the whole. The liver is healing, the meds are being weaned. By the end of the year, with luck, the 6MP will also be weaned. That is good.

Debby

Re: [ ] Fatty Liver

Fatty liver was never mentioned to me after my biopsy. I have sat and pondered so many times whether I had AIH all the time when fatty liver was mentioned. But, that was back around 1992. Wouldnt I be in worse shape now then I am? Because I certainly was on no treatment. Thanks

[Guest guest]

This address didn't work.

debby

Re: [ ] Fatty Liver

....This is a good site on Fatty liverhttp://www.uptodate.com/patient_info/topicpages/topics/Livr_dis/5305.asp?usd=986428425 & r=/patient_info/topicpages/topics/Livr_dis/5305.asp & app=mktg & server=www.uptodate.com

[Guest guest]

,

I think there is so many causes for fatty liver the docs don't even

know what to do some times. My cousin was on the " Atkins Diet " , and

had wonderful results. She lost 35 lbs, her cholesterol and

triglyceride went back to normal, as did her BP. BUT, it caused her

to have fatty liver. It took another two years of the doctors diet

to get that back to normal. It can be very serious, but it can also

reverse itself for no more reason than it started. As I beleive some

one said before, biopsy is the best thing when they suspect or see

it. That really is the only true way to see how serious it is, and

if it has caused damage.

Carole K

> Fatty liver was never mentioned to me after my biopsy. I have sat

and

> pondered so many times whether I had AIH all the time when fatty

liver was

> mentioned. But, that was back around 1992. Wouldnt I be in worse

shape now

> then I am? Because I certainly was on no treatment.

>

> Thanks

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry Debby

It worked for me. In fact when I clicked on it from your response that said it didnt work....it worked.

Just trying to help.

[Guest guest]

Im there with ya pal.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2003 1:53:37 PM Central Standard Time, toots_k@... writes:

As I beleive some

one said before, biopsy is the best thing when they suspect or see

it. That really is the only true way to see how serious it is, and

if it has caused damage.

Thanks Carole for your response. I feel you are right. However, ten years ago, I was such a goofy thing. When he mentioned biopsy to me, you would have thought he had said amputation. I freaked. It has taken AIH to teach me to be more practical and rational about my health and sense of mortality.

Take care

[Guest guest]

,

Don't feel bad, I freaked a bit when they said they wanted to do mine

by way of the jugular vein. They told me it was the preferred way

with my platelets being so bad. They even said they had to give me

vitamin K shots for three days before to prevent uncontrolled

bleeding. Your mind doesn't quite grasp that going into the jugular

as a way of reducing bleeding. I told them they would have to give

me some good drugs to keep me from freaking out. But after the three

days on the shots my platelets improved enough to do it through the

ribs. The thought of them doing it that way didn't bother me at

all. But it was pretty painfull - I think because the doc wasn't

very skilled and the inflamation was really bad. They told me having

it done through the vein is virtually painless.

It is amazing what having a chronic disease can teach us though,

isn't it. Priorities really change. You get to know emotions you

never knew before. And those steroids can have your emotions running

all over the place! I hope you have been fortunate enough to get

your disease under control.

Carole K

[Guest guest]

It is amazing what having a chronic

disease can teach us though, isn't it. Priorities really change.

You get to know emotions you never knew before. And those

steroids can have your emotions running all over the place!

Carole K

Wow, Carole, you put into words what I have been thinking about

a great deal. My priorities certainly have changed, and I don't

think I will ever be able to control my emotions. Just when I think I

have them under control, then a new flood come to the surface. I

guess I will just need to learn how to build myself a raft or find a

life preserver.

Hope you are enjoying the spring day.

(in WY)

[Guest guest]

>

> Bee,

>

> Your program won't lead to a fatty liver condition, will it? My mother

> has this problem. I just want to make sure!

==>No, it won't lead to a fatty liver, in fact my program helps a fatty

liver because of its high natural fats which cleanse and help the liver

function the way it should. Fatty liver may have many causes but

here's one from Dr. Mercola, which points to sugar:

http://www.mercola.com/2006/nov/14/how-soft-drinks-damage-your-liver.htm

>

> And my mother has too much iron in her blood, which is a condition

> called homochromatosis/homeochromatosis. She has to donate blood to

> overcome her dizziness and other symptoms associated with this

condition.

>

> I'm aware of chelation, but to your knowledge, is there any way of

> overcoming this condtion, without adding more iron into her blood?

==>Yes, with my diet which contains high natural fats that chelate out

all metals, including high levels of iron. It is also important for

her to take all of the supplements as well, particularly omega 3,

vitamins A, D & E, etc. which works together with the diet to provide

all of the nutrients the body requires in order to increase the immune

system and normalize body functions, particularly the liver. She

should also do other things to help her liver, i.e. coffee enemas, dry

skin brushing, electrolyte drink, etc. She should start with coconut

oil which primes the liver and gall bladder for fats.

Bee

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I did the crooks questionaire and have almost every symptom listed.

I recently started the diet and vitamins these past two weeks and ive been

feeling very sick

my liver and kidney are sore plus alot of bloating and reflux.I take nexium 40mg

daily for the

past 3 years for reflux.

Is there a natural alternative i can take instead?

Also i have a very fatty liver will this diet help it?

My sister came over yesterday and saw all the vitamins i am taking puts alot of

pressure in

the liver and said i could die.Is this possible?

Help wpuld be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

My name is and I too had a fatty liver. My endocrinologist told me my

liver was 25 percent covered. Ever since I have been on Bee's diet, I no longer

have a fatty liver and my liver enzymes, high blood sugar and hormones are all

normal. I too take nexium as well as vitamin B complex, Candex and hydrochloric

acid. I can't tell you how much better i've been. I too had gotten sick at

first, but once you get rid of the toxins you'll feel better. Sometimes it gets

worse before it gets better. I also had my silver amalgam filling taken out and

boy did I feel sick afterwards, now I am fine. I hope the New Year finds you

feeling better.

All The Best,

In a message dated 1/18/2008, mastora75@... writes:

Hello,

I did the crooks questionnaire and have almost every symptom listed.

I recently started the diet and vitamins these past two weeks and ive been

feeling very sick my liver and kidney are sore plus alot of bloating and

reflux.I take nexium 40mg daily for the past 3 years for reflux. Is there a

natural alternative i can take instead? Also i have a very fatty liver will

this diet help it? My sister came over yesterday and saw all the vitamins i am

taking puts alot of pressure in the liver and said i could die.Is this

possible?

Help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance