Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Hi, Nancie. By credible evidence or support I meant peer reviewed literature. I'm sure there may be more than one physician willing to experiment; especially on themselves [where the risk of litigation is none existent]. I'm sure that there are a lot of other people who do the same. I'm not even saying it's a bad idea. What I am saying is that when one makes a blanket statement that the dosage of a medication is up to XXX when XXX happens to be over 66% higher than the maximum that the manufacturer of that medicine recommends then the recommendation should be properly labeled as personal opinion, contrary to manufacturer's recommendation and thus possibly harmful. Or otherwise clearly differentiated from standard medical practices, which it clearly is not. > > Re: Armour-Thyroid > <hypothyroidism/message/39450;_ylc=X3oDMTJxazBraTh\ lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0NTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDEzMTQ5NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour-Thyroid> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:59 pm (PDT) > > james- > I wouldn't say that there is NO credible evidence or support- my own > thyroid MD uses 5 grains herself. she is board certified physician in > both OB/GYN and Natural Medicine > > From: > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:51 PM > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Subject: Re: Armour-Thyroid > > You specifically recommended Armour in a dose of 180 to 300 mg; if I'm > in error please correct me. And you are free to recommend whatever dose > you care to; but when the manufacturer recommends a maximum dose of 180 > mg and you recommend a dose that is 66.66% higher than the manufacturer > I suggest you should make it clear that you are suggesting something > that the manufacturer DOES NOT recommend; and for which there is no > credible support. That would be to protect the newcomer, who might not > be aware of your bias. > > IMHO any person who makes such a recommendation on _any_ list should > point out that the manufacturer [who, after all benefits from greater > sales if people take higher doses] does not recommend such a high dose. > There just might be a good reason for the manufacturer to not recommend > the dosage you do; for example some small percentage of people might > have been found to have very negative results with higher doses. Unless > you know that is not the case then you are willing to gamble with other > people's lives. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 I don't necessarily " like " the system and I certainly think it could be improved. There are well established procedures for that to happen. Personal opinion and anecdotal " evidence " really don't have a place in that procedure beyond the beginning [questioning the present system]. As for it working " for the rest of us " , I presume you are talking essentially about treating hypothyroidism with Synthroid and its equivalents. I believe that Chuck recently posted evidence that probably greater than 98% of hypothyroidism patients do in fact receive the standard treatment from " the system " . If more than a minuscule portion of those had problems we would be swamped here IMHO. > > Re: Armour-Thyroid > <hypothyroidism/message/39460;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaXRqOWV\ 1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0NjAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDEzMTQ5NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " Gracia " circe@... > <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour-Thyroid> > graciabee <graciabee> > > > Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:52 pm (PDT) > > > ppl are undertreated on Armour b/c of TSH test, b/c docs do not treat > adrenals. I myself could only tolerate 90mg Armour for a long > time--b/c I needed other adrenal and sex hormones. the system is sick > and the system is wrong. I am glad you like it but it doesn't work for > the rest of us. > Gracia > > You specifically recommended Armour in a dose of 180 to 300 mg; if I'm > in error please correct me. And you are free to recommend whatever dose > you care to; but when the manufacturer recommends a maximum dose of 180 > mg and you recommend a dose that is 66.66% higher than the manufacturer > I suggest you should make it clear that you are suggesting something > that the manufacturer DOES NOT recommend; and for which there is no > credible support. That would be to protect the newcomer, who might not > be aware of your bias. > > IMHO any person who makes such a recommendation on _any_ list should > point out that the manufacturer [who, after all benefits from greater > sales if people take higher doses] does not recommend such a high dose. > There just might be a good reason for the manufacturer to not recommend > the dosage you do; for example some small percentage of people might > have been found to have very negative results with higher doses. Unless > you know that is not the case then you are willing to gamble with other > people's lives. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 prudence does not " experiment " on herself. she uses peer reviewed research via Natural Medicine Journals. the next time I see her I will get the cites for this. From: Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:35 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Armour-Thyroid Hi, Nancie. By credible evidence or support I meant peer reviewed literature. I'm sure there may be more than one physician willing to experiment; especially on themselves [where the risk of litigation is none existent]. I'm sure that there are a lot of other people who do the same. I'm not even saying it's a bad idea. What I am saying is that when one makes a blanket statement that the dosage of a medication is up to XXX when XXX happens to be over 66% higher than the maximum that the manufacturer of that medicine recommends then the recommendation should be properly labeled as personal opinion, contrary to manufacturer's recommendation and thus possibly harmful. Or otherwise clearly differentiated from standard medical practices, which it clearly is not. > > Re: Armour-Thyroid > <hypothyroidism/message/39450;_ylc=X3oDMTJxazBraTh\ lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0NTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDEzMTQ5NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour-Thyroid> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:59 pm (PDT) > > james- > I wouldn't say that there is NO credible evidence or support- my own > thyroid MD uses 5 grains herself. she is board certified physician in > both OB/GYN and Natural Medicine > > From: > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:51 PM > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Subject: Re: Armour-Thyroid > > You specifically recommended Armour in a dose of 180 to 300 mg; if I'm > in error please correct me. And you are free to recommend whatever dose > you care to; but when the manufacturer recommends a maximum dose of 180 > mg and you recommend a dose that is 66.66% higher than the manufacturer > I suggest you should make it clear that you are suggesting something > that the manufacturer DOES NOT recommend; and for which there is no > credible support. That would be to protect the newcomer, who might not > be aware of your bias. > > IMHO any person who makes such a recommendation on _any_ list should > point out that the manufacturer [who, after all benefits from greater > sales if people take higher doses] does not recommend such a high dose. > There just might be a good reason for the manufacturer to not recommend > the dosage you do; for example some small percentage of people might > have been found to have very negative results with higher doses. Unless > you know that is not the case then you are willing to gamble with other > people's lives. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 <standard medical practices> standard for allopathic medicine BUT Not For Natural Medicine! Big Difference. From: Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:35 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Armour-Thyroid Hi, Nancie. By credible evidence or support I meant peer reviewed literature. I'm sure there may be more than one physician willing to experiment; especially on themselves [where the risk of litigation is none existent]. I'm sure that there are a lot of other people who do the same. I'm not even saying it's a bad idea. What I am saying is that when one makes a blanket statement that the dosage of a medication is up to XXX when XXX happens to be over 66% higher than the maximum that the manufacturer of that medicine recommends then the recommendation should be properly labeled as personal opinion, contrary to manufacturer's recommendation and thus possibly harmful. Or otherwise clearly differentiated from standard medical practices, which it clearly is not. > > Re: Armour-Thyroid > <hypothyroidism/message/39450;_ylc=X3oDMTJxazBraTh\ lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0NTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDEzMTQ5NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour-Thyroid> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:59 pm (PDT) > > james- > I wouldn't say that there is NO credible evidence or support- my own > thyroid MD uses 5 grains herself. she is board certified physician in > both OB/GYN and Natural Medicine > > From: > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:51 PM > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Subject: Re: Armour-Thyroid > > You specifically recommended Armour in a dose of 180 to 300 mg; if I'm > in error please correct me. And you are free to recommend whatever dose > you care to; but when the manufacturer recommends a maximum dose of 180 > mg and you recommend a dose that is 66.66% higher than the manufacturer > I suggest you should make it clear that you are suggesting something > that the manufacturer DOES NOT recommend; and for which there is no > credible support. That would be to protect the newcomer, who might not > be aware of your bias. > > IMHO any person who makes such a recommendation on _any_ list should > point out that the manufacturer [who, after all benefits from greater > sales if people take higher doses] does not recommend such a high dose. > There just might be a good reason for the manufacturer to not recommend > the dosage you do; for example some small percentage of people might > have been found to have very negative results with higher doses. Unless > you know that is not the case then you are willing to gamble with other > people's lives. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 It would be interesting to see peer reviewed literature supporting taking 5 grains of Armour when the manufacturer recommends a maximum of 3; and then trying to figure out why the manufacturer who makes more money selling 5 grains than 3 would recommend a maximum of three. There's nothing particularly wrong with experimenting upon one's self [within limits], provided one is aware of the risks and willing to accept them. Recommending the same for others who may not be aware of the risks is another matter IMHO. FAIK 5 grains may be a perfectly fine dose. Except for the tiny little fact that the manufacturer recommends no more than 3. > > Re: Armour-Thyroid > <hypothyroidism/message/39494;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbW9zY2U\ 0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0OTQEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDIxNzc1Mg--> > > > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour-Thyroid> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:14 pm (PDT) > > prudence does not " experiment " on herself. she uses peer reviewed > research via Natural Medicine Journals. the next time I see her I will > get the cites for this. > > From: > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:35 PM > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Subject: Re: Armour-Thyroid > > Hi, Nancie. By credible evidence or support I meant peer reviewed > literature. I'm sure there may be more than one physician willing to > experiment; especially on themselves [where the risk of litigation is > none existent]. I'm sure that there are a lot of other people who do > the same. > > I'm not even saying it's a bad idea. What I am saying is that when one > makes a blanket statement that the dosage of a medication is up to XXX > when XXX happens to be over 66% higher than the maximum that the > manufacturer of that medicine recommends then the recommendation should > be properly labeled as personal opinion, contrary to manufacturer' > s > recommendation and thus possibly harmful. Or otherwise clearly > differentiated from standard medical practices, which it clearly is not. > > > > > > > Re: Armour-Thyroid > > > <hypothyroidism/message/39450;_ylc=X3oDMTJxazBraTh\ lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0NTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDEzMTQ5NQ-- > <hypothyroidism/message/39450;_ylc=X3oDMTJxazBraTh\ lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0NTAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDEzMTQ5NQ-->> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit%40msn.com> > > <mailto:deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit%40msn.com>?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour-Thyroid> > > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1 > <aspenfairy1>> > > > > > > Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:59 pm (PDT) > > > > james- > > I wouldn't say that there is NO credible evidence or support- my own > > thyroid MD uses 5 grains herself. she is board certified physician in > > both OB/GYN and Natural Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Perhaps. Provided the peer reviewed literature you are going to reference isn't something like Optimax or whatever its journal is called. > > Re: Armour-Thyroid > <hypothyroidism/message/39495;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbnBiOHI\ 1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzk0OTUEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDIxNzc1Mg--> > > > > Posted by: " nancie barnett " deifspirit@... > <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Armour-Thyroid> > aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1> > > > Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:17 pm (PDT) > > <standard medical practices> > standard for allopathic medicine BUT Not For Natural Medicine! Big > Difference. > > From: > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:35 PM > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Subject: Re: Armour-Thyroid > > Hi, Nancie. By credible evidence or support I meant peer reviewed > literature. I'm sure there may be more than one physician willing to > experiment; especially on themselves [where the risk of litigation is > none existent]. I'm sure that there are a lot of other people who do > the same. > > I'm not even saying it's a bad idea. What I am saying is that when one > makes a blanket statement that the dosage of a medication is up to XXX > when XXX happens to be over 66% higher than the maximum that the > manufacturer of that medicine recommends then the recommendation should > be properly labeled as personal opinion, contrary to manufacturer' > s > recommendation and thus possibly harmful. Or otherwise clearly > differentiated from standard medical practices, which it clearly is not. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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