Re: TSH test and iodine

[Guest guest]

you should also get screened for lupus or sle which CAN MIMIC thyroid diseases.

nancie

Re: Re: TSH test and iodine

,

You wrote:

>

> When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

> What do people take?

There is no one answer, and the diagnosis is complex, depending on

exactly what part of the system is malfunctioning. One approach, often

recommended on this list, is to treat the adrenals. You should rule out

possible neoplasms.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Yeah I know...but let me guess, that 5% number is from the " peer reviewed

literature " ....yawn.

Guess it sucks for me to be part of that extremely small subset of people

where TSH did not properly diagnose my hypothyroidism...and then have

Levoxyl fail to resolve my symptoms.

I must be just one in a million, right?

Neil

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Chuck B

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:41 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Re: TSH test and iodine

neil wrote:

>

>

> I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test, you are making a rather

> grand assumption that the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)is

> working properly. Very very often this is not the case at all.

Not true. This happens about 5% of the time.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck, go here http://www.iodine4health.com/ and read.

Mmm, how about go to the next iodine conference.

You could also read the stuff on Steph's site:

http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com/Iodine.html

and better yet, contact her. She'll give you quite the earful...

And why don't you join the iodine group and expose yourself

to all that information? iodine

Sam

> > ... I say that because

> > what you, and other uninformed people have been saying makes all of

you

> > sound like ignorant school children who " think " you know everything.

>

> And I am still waiting for an example of an " informed " person that

> agrees with any of your claims that isn't directly attached to

Optimox.

> I am also still waiting for any type of peer reviewed literature that

> agrees.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Nancie,

What is sle? Been thinking about it and can't come up with it.

It's probably obvious and I will wnat to kick myself when you tell me.

Venizia

> >

> > When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

> > What do people take?

>

> There is no one answer, and the diagnosis is complex, depending on

> exactly what part of the system is malfunctioning. One approach,

often

> recommended on this list, is to treat the adrenals. You should

rule out

> possible neoplasms.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> The TSH test changed about a decade ago,

> making it much more sensitive.

A decade ago that " sensitive " TSH test kept me

severely hypO.

> And, no, I don't believe that most Americans

> are deficient in iodine.

That's too bad. Perhaps you would chance your mind after

speaking with Drs Flechas and Brownstein.

> The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12%

> in the U.S. were below the recommended dietary levels,

> at risk rather than deficient.

Recommended dietary level of 150 MICROgrams. EEK!

I know you know darned well that the human body is

supposed to contain much more than that per day.

> The World Health Organization standard for defining

> a deficient population is 20% below the dietary

> recommendation.

That recomendation of 150 MICROgrams again. That is such a pathetic

amount of iodine per day. No wonder the US is experiencing

an " obesity " epidemic, increased cancers, and other issues directly

related to iodine deficiency. What the heck, apparently the planet

needs " some " sort of way to reduce the population on it...

Sam :-o

[Guest guest]

Exactly Sam...the MDR for iodine is just so people don't get a huge

goiter...and not a molecule more.

Same with Vitamin D, just enough not to get rickets and be able to

walk...nothing more.

Forget OPTIMAL levels, forget optimal health, just the minimum.

Just enough Levoxyl to come into the bottom end of normal and not a

microgram more. Still have a weight problem? Get some self control! Still

feel horrible? Have some anti-depressants, its all in your mind! Cholesterol

through the roof? Here's a stiff dose of Crestor that will make your bones

ache!

Neil

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Sam

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:41 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: TSH test and iodine

> The TSH test changed about a decade ago,

> making it much more sensitive.

A decade ago that " sensitive " TSH test kept me

severely hypO.

> And, no, I don't believe that most Americans

> are deficient in iodine.

That's too bad. Perhaps you would chance your mind after

speaking with Drs Flechas and Brownstein.

> The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12%

> in the U.S. were below the recommended dietary levels,

> at risk rather than deficient.

Recommended dietary level of 150 MICROgrams. EEK!

I know you know darned well that the human body is

supposed to contain much more than that per day.

> The World Health Organization standard for defining

> a deficient population is 20% below the dietary

> recommendation.

That recomendation of 150 MICROgrams again. That is such a pathetic

amount of iodine per day. No wonder the US is experiencing

an " obesity " epidemic, increased cancers, and other issues directly

related to iodine deficiency. What the heck, apparently the planet

needs " some " sort of way to reduce the population on it...

Sam :-o

[Guest guest]

I also had a 2 hour urine test. Mind you, my adrenals were very

fried, and I was in very bad shape. I also had a ACTH Stim test.

Those are inadequate tests. I ended up having to self treat my

adrenals, if that tells you anything.

You may need to order your own 24-hour saliva cortisol test to see

what your cortisol " rhythm " is, so you know how and when to dose.

" Saliva is proving to be an excellent diagnostic medium to measure

free steroid hormones. Saliva is a natural ultrafiltrate of blood,

and steroids not bound by carrier proteins freely diffuse into

saliva. Since the concentration of carrier proteins in saliva is

extremely low, measurements in saliva for the most part represent the

free fraction of the hormone. "

Sam

> >

> > I just found a fantastic MD who also agrees with me about the

HPA

> connection and TSH. we both believe that if the adrenals are

faulty or

> the thyroid is faulty then the TSH levels are suspected. in that

> either the adrenals are pumping out too much TSH or too little;

or the

> thyroid is not reading it correctly either way you get a thyroid

> condition either hypo T or hyper T.

> > My new MD is Prudence Hall in Santa and she herself is on

> Armour! in fact she takes 5 grains. I finally found a armour

friendly

> provider- yeah!!!

> > she is great because she does not discount that I am an NP who

knows

> and therefore would know BS if I heard it.

> > She had me do this very interesting test for measuring your

thyroid

> levels via a computer. it involved strapping this computerized

sensor

> on your palm and tapping on your bracheoradalis reflex and

measuring

> the percentage of how responsive your reflex is. it is based on

truth.

> when you are hypo T all of your reflexes are decreased. when I

test my

> patient's reflexes I find that they are depressed in contrast to

> patients who have hyper T whose reflexes are increased or

heightened.

> > the problem with me is that I have lupus so my results may be

> screwed. lupus affects my connective tissue which tendons and

> ligaments are made up of. so my reflexes may be altered because

of it

> and affect my test result. so, I am going to have blood tests to

> correlate the results.

> > But, my overall impression of prudence is wonderful. her

center " the

> hall center " is not like ANY provider's office I have ever seen.

It is

> filled with Asian and middle eastern antiques; comfortable

couches;

> art and sculpture everywhere; oriental rugs; herbal teas; music;

an

> natural medicine store; natural cosmetics; books.

> > they offer a full list of natural medicine services including

> acupuncture; nutrition support; IV vitamin infusions; massage;

Chinese

> herbs; sauna; facials; lab testing; other sevices.

> > nancie

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Understood about the drama on this list...I see that and have gotten a

chuckle out of it.

I think my big problem is that I feel let down. Probably a lot of it is

because I only had an HMO's for a medical plan for many years. I have

changed that recently though.

I never had much contact with doctors other than very routine care and

checkups. But I believed that when the time came some doctor could easily

diagnose and " fix me up " , doctors are the smartest folks around that go to

school like forever to learn all this stuff, right?

I understand that doctors don't have an easy time of it...but I expect them

to at least try. The times I have dealt with endocrinologists I have found

them to be extremely rude, condescending, and brief. They also run a very

small amount of tests, usually just a TSH test and nothing more. Not even a

physical exam other than palpating my thyroid gland. Since I did not know

better I allowed this to go for far too many office visits....took time off

work, etc.

If the doctors bothered to do a physical exam and interview they would have

found out (like I did by reading on the internet, something that seems to

enrage many doctors) that I have just about every textbook symptom of

hypothyroidism that has ever written! But they rarely take their eyes off

the lab work paperwork to talk to me....and after about 3-5 minutes edge

toward the door and I get the " see you next month " sort of thing.

I finally have a great doctor....great care....getting the help I

needed...would have been nice for a doctor to start giving me Armour about

15 years ago though. I could have avoided five hospitalizations, two

coronary stents, combined months off work, etc.

Sign me bitter,

Neil

________________________________

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Dusty

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 4:13 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: RE: TSH test and iodine

Conversely, Neil, I know lots and lots of people who are treated correctly.

My point is that despite all the drama we express here on this list, i.e.

'all the people in the nursing home are hypo' and similar statements aren't

proven statements and are mostly conjecture based on a person's belief

system of how much more they know about this subject then the doc's do. The

truth is they only REALLY know about their own experience, symptoms and what

has healed them , but they are including us in that experience. Doesn't

work that way!

Don't get me wrong, I've had my share of bad docs - and I've had just as

many good docs. No different than a car mechanic or a customer service rep.

Some folks are good at what they do and some aren't.....

Docs don't have an easy job of it - they are often trying to hit a moving

target with a diagnosis. A gal like me comes in, 59 yrs old and complains

of hot flashes, dry skin, lack of libido and fatigue. Pretty hard for a

doc to hit that right straight on the nose the first time out of the gate.

Even if I was 35 and came in with those complaints, it would be pretty hard.

There are lots and lots of things which can cause any one of those symptoms.

Some people go to the doc's and say only

'I'm always tired'. You know how many disorders, diseases that could cover?

I've worked in a doc's office, I've seen a lot of pretty comical,

unbelievable stuff (actions and comments). You'd probably be amazed at the

number of people who show up on a doc's doorstep, after having convinced

themselves of having one thing or another and demanded that a doc treat them

for such and such disease. We had one lady try to cut off her tongue -

convinced it was cancerous - to give you an idea.

Dusty

Re: TSH test and iodine

do you remember when docs used to have clinical skills and could easily Dx

congenital hypothyroidism? It is easy for me to see it right now! The male

in question last had a TSH of 2 something. When my TSH was one and I was

near death, should I have simply followed the advice of the NP and taken BP

meds? At that point I think I would have been unable to work and had to go

on disability. Instead I got Armour thyroid.

all the studies do not correspond to reality, so something is very rotten in

Denmark. big pharma conspiracy.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> crazy crazy crazy

> so the residents at the group hoime with " normal " TSH and all symptoms

> of congenital hypo, really don't need thyroid hormone and iodine after

> all??...

The TSH test changed about a decade ago, making it much more sensitive.

A number of studies have shown that the false negative rate is now at

most a few percent, even with congenital hypoT. Of course, that doesn't

guarantee that all doctors know how to interpret the results, especially

when they are borderline, but there are other conditions that cause our

symptoms besides hypoT.

And, no, I don't believe that most Americans are deficient in iodine.

The last CDC study (1995) showed that only about 12% in the U.S. were

below the recommended dietary levels, at risk rather than deficient.

While this is an increased percentage over the previous study, much can

be explained by changing food processing and less use of iodized salt.

Too many are using sea salt!!

The World Health Organization standard for defining a deficient

population is 20% below the dietary recommendation. WHO lists 130

countries as at risk, with an affected population of 2.2 billion. There

is a map here, showing the places that are considered at risk due to the

lack of iodized salt.

http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.

<http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

<http://www.iccidd.org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php> >

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php>

org/pages/iodine-deficiency/where-is-the-problem.php

Chuck

[Guest guest]

>ADD, ADHD, autism, diabetes come to mind.

oh wait.....that's bad jeans I mean genes.

Gracia

That recomendation of 150 MICROgrams again. That is such a pathetic

amount of iodine per day. No wonder the US is experiencing

an " obesity " epidemic, increased cancers, and other issues directly

related to iodine deficiency. What the heck, apparently the planet

needs " some " sort of way to reduce the population on it...

Sam :-o

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008

11:57 AM

[Guest guest]

remember, in the allopathic world, there are lots and lots of diseases, and

each one has a sprcial drug treatment. hooray!!!! that's why we need lots of

tests and docs to sort it all out. we are just too stupid. we are the lowly

plebs.

gracia

you might want to get tested for IAAI disease lol

Nancie,

What is sle? Been thinking about it and can't come up with it.

It's probably obvious and I will wnat to kick myself when you tell me.

Venizia

> >

> > When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

> > What do people take?

>

> There is no one answer, and the diagnosis is complex, depending on

> exactly what part of the system is malfunctioning. One approach,

often

> recommended on this list, is to treat the adrenals. You should

rule out

> possible neoplasms.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The recommendations, in the RDA in many cases are too low when people have

illnesses, and need higher supplementation. However, not everybody is ill, and

that's

what this RDA thing is for. I, myself feel that it is flawed, and that people

who feel the

need for something more to do their research. That does not mean that I think

everyone

should take huge amounts of supplements whether they need them or not.

Roni

Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

>ADD, ADHD, autism, diabetes come to mind.

oh wait.....that's bad jeans I mean genes.

Gracia

That recomendation of 150 MICROgrams again. That is such a pathetic

amount of iodine per day. No wonder the US is experiencing

an " obesity " epidemic, increased cancers, and other issues directly

related to iodine deficiency. What the heck, apparently the planet

needs " some " sort of way to reduce the population on it...

Sam :-o

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57

AM

[Guest guest]

Systemic Lupus Erythymatosus. Not sure of spelling.

Roni

Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

remember, in the allopathic world, there are lots and lots of diseases, and each

one has a sprcial drug treatment. hooray!!!! that's why we need lots of tests

and docs to sort it all out. we are just too stupid. we are the lowly plebs.

gracia

you might want to get tested for IAAI disease lol

Nancie,

What is sle? Been thinking about it and can't come up with it.

It's probably obvious and I will wnat to kick myself when you tell me.

Venizia

> >

> > When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

> > What do people take?

>

> There is no one answer, and the diagnosis is complex, depending on

> exactly what part of the system is malfunctioning. One approach,

often

> recommended on this list, is to treat the adrenals. You should

rule out

> possible neoplasms.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi

I think a very good explanation of H-P-A axis can be found in Hormone

Solutions by Thierry Hertoghe MD. He's a great guy, my friend goes to him, he's

a Broda doc.

http://www.brodabarnes.org

Gracia

Chuck,

When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

What do people take?

Thanks,

--- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> neil wrote:

> >

> >

> > I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test,

> you are making a rather

> > grand assumption that the

> hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)is

> > working properly. Very very often this is not the

> case at all.

>

> Not true. This happens about 5% of the time.

>

> Chuck

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008

11:57 AM

[Guest guest]

not true at all.

I think you mean that 5% are treated, the rest suffer from bad genes.

Gracia

neil wrote:

>

>

> I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test, you are making a rather

> grand assumption that the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis)is

> working properly. Very very often this is not the case at all.

Not true. This happens about 5% of the time.

Chuck

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008

11:57 AM

[Guest guest]

I personally think the 24 hr urine test is the very best test for adrenals,

available from http://www.antibodyassay.com

http://www.brodabarnes,org recommends this one.

doing a urine test at the local hospital would not be accurate however.

Gracia

I also had a 2 hour urine test. Mind you, my adrenals were very

fried, and I was in very bad shape. I also had a ACTH Stim test.

Those are inadequate tests. I ended up having to self treat my

adrenals, if that tells you anything.

You may need to order your own 24-hour saliva cortisol test to see

what your cortisol " rhythm " is, so you know how and when to dose.

" Saliva is proving to be an excellent diagnostic medium to measure

free steroid hormones. Saliva is a natural ultrafiltrate of blood,

and steroids not bound by carrier proteins freely diffuse into

saliva. Since the concentration of carrier proteins in saliva is

extremely low, measurements in saliva for the most part represent the

free fraction of the hormone. "

Sam

> >

> > I just found a fantastic MD who also agrees with me about the

HPA

> connection and TSH. we both believe that if the adrenals are

faulty or

> the thyroid is faulty then the TSH levels are suspected. in that

> either the adrenals are pumping out too much TSH or too little;

or the

> thyroid is not reading it correctly either way you get a thyroid

> condition either hypo T or hyper T.

> > My new MD is Prudence Hall in Santa and she herself is on

> Armour! in fact she takes 5 grains. I finally found a armour

friendly

> provider- yeah!!!

> > she is great because she does not discount that I am an NP who

knows

> and therefore would know BS if I heard it.

> > She had me do this very interesting test for measuring your

thyroid

> levels via a computer. it involved strapping this computerized

sensor

> on your palm and tapping on your bracheoradalis reflex and

measuring

> the percentage of how responsive your reflex is. it is based on

truth.

> when you are hypo T all of your reflexes are decreased. when I

test my

> patient's reflexes I find that they are depressed in contrast to

> patients who have hyper T whose reflexes are increased or

heightened.

> > the problem with me is that I have lupus so my results may be

> screwed. lupus affects my connective tissue which tendons and

> ligaments are made up of. so my reflexes may be altered because

of it

> and affect my test result. so, I am going to have blood tests to

> correlate the results.

> > But, my overall impression of prudence is wonderful. her

center " the

> hall center " is not like ANY provider's office I have ever seen.

It is

> filled with Asian and middle eastern antiques; comfortable

couches;

> art and sculpture everywhere; oriental rugs; herbal teas; music;

an

> natural medicine store; natural cosmetics; books.

> > they offer a full list of natural medicine services including

> acupuncture; nutrition support; IV vitamin infusions; massage;

Chinese

> herbs; sauna; facials; lab testing; other sevices.

> > nancie

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gracia, I meant I had the 24 hour urine test, not the 2 hour test.

Ugh...too many Basenjis helping me type.

Sam

> > >

> > > I just found a fantastic MD who also agrees with me about the

> HPA

> > connection and TSH. we both believe that if the adrenals are

> faulty or

> > the thyroid is faulty then the TSH levels are suspected. in that

> > either the adrenals are pumping out too much TSH or too little;

> or the

> > thyroid is not reading it correctly either way you get a thyroid

> > condition either hypo T or hyper T.

> > > My new MD is Prudence Hall in Santa and she herself is

on

> > Armour! in fact she takes 5 grains. I finally found a armour

> friendly

> > provider- yeah!!!

> > > she is great because she does not discount that I am an NP

who

> knows

> > and therefore would know BS if I heard it.

> > > She had me do this very interesting test for measuring your

> thyroid

> > levels via a computer. it involved strapping this computerized

> sensor

> > on your palm and tapping on your bracheoradalis reflex and

> measuring

> > the percentage of how responsive your reflex is. it is based on

> truth.

> > when you are hypo T all of your reflexes are decreased. when I

> test my

> > patient's reflexes I find that they are depressed in contrast to

> > patients who have hyper T whose reflexes are increased or

> heightened.

> > > the problem with me is that I have lupus so my results may be

> > screwed. lupus affects my connective tissue which tendons and

> > ligaments are made up of. so my reflexes may be altered because

> of it

> > and affect my test result. so, I am going to have blood tests to

> > correlate the results.

> > > But, my overall impression of prudence is wonderful. her

> center " the

> > hall center " is not like ANY provider's office I have ever

seen.

> It is

> > filled with Asian and middle eastern antiques; comfortable

> couches;

> > art and sculpture everywhere; oriental rugs; herbal teas;

music;

> an

> > natural medicine store; natural cosmetics; books.

> > > they offer a full list of natural medicine services including

> > acupuncture; nutrition support; IV vitamin infusions; massage;

> Chinese

> > herbs; sauna; facials; lab testing; other sevices.

> > > nancie

> > >

> > >

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

venizia-

oh sorry - sle is lupus. systemic lupus erythematosus.

nancie

Re: TSH test and iodine

Nancie,

What is sle? Been thinking about it and can't come up with it.

It's probably obvious and I will wnat to kick myself when you tell me.

Venizia

Recent Activity

a.. 15New

Members<hypothyroidism/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGtuYm\

Z2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm\

1icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTY3NjYyMw-->

Visit Your Group

<hypothyroidism;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMjg0YnRoBF9TAzk3MzU5N\

zE0BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxM\

Tk5Njc2NjIz>

Cancer Support

on

Groups<http://us.ard./SIG=12nnrvifg/M=493064.12016247.12445656.10478265\

/D=grphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199683823/A=4617368/R=0/SIG=11uofhk5p/\

*http://advision.webevents./cancersupport/index.html>

Connect w/ others

find help & share

Healthy Eating

Zone<http://us.ard./SIG=12mngjf0u/M=493064.12016231.124456479706571/D=g\

rphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199683823/A=4718982/R=0/SIG=11kunoe70/*htt\

p://advision.webevents./healthyeating/>

Encouraging families

to eat healthy.

Health

Fit for

Life<http://us.ard./SIG=12m9eafjl/M=493064.12016303.124456959706571/D=g\

rphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199683823/A=5008809/R=0/SIG=10q26t77l/*htt\

p://health./>

Getting fit is now

easier than ever.

.

[Guest guest]

gracia-

in the naturopathic world there are lots of diseases and we treat them, too as

well as in the Chinese Medicine world and the Native American medicine world and

the East Indian medicine world.

Re: Re: TSH test and iodine

remember, in the allopathic world, there are lots and lots of diseases, and

each one has a sprcial drug treatment. hooray!!!! that's why we need lots of

tests and docs to sort it all out. we are just too stupid. we are the lowly

plebs.

gracia

you might want to get tested for IAAI disease lol

Nancie,

What is sle? Been thinking about it and can't come up with it.

It's probably obvious and I will wnat to kick myself when you tell me.

Venizia

> >

> > When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

> > What do people take?

>

> There is no one answer, and the diagnosis is complex, depending on

> exactly what part of the system is malfunctioning. One approach,

often

> recommended on this list, is to treat the adrenals. You should

rule out

> possible neoplasms.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

look my Md has done RESEARCH and she has found that the salvia test is not

accurate because of the proteins that are found in salvia- they can bound the

cortisol and skew the test results. she trusts the 24 hour urine collection test

that is then sent to a special lab and it takes 3 weeks.

Re: TSH test and iodine

I also had a 2 hour urine test. Mind you, my adrenals were very

fried, and I was in very bad shape. I also had a ACTH Stim test.

Those are inadequate tests. I ended up having to self treat my

adrenals, if that tells you anything.

You may need to order your own 24-hour saliva cortisol test to see

what your cortisol " rhythm " is, so you know how and when to dose.

" Saliva is proving to be an excellent diagnostic medium to measure

free steroid hormones. Saliva is a natural ultrafiltrate of blood,

and steroids not bound by carrier proteins freely diffuse into

saliva. Since the concentration of carrier proteins in saliva is

extremely low, measurements in saliva for the most part represent the

free fraction of the hormone. "

Sam

> >

> > I just found a fantastic MD who also agrees with me about the

HPA

> connection and TSH. we both believe that if the adrenals are

faulty or

> the thyroid is faulty then the TSH levels are suspected. in that

> either the adrenals are pumping out too much TSH or too little;

or the

> thyroid is not reading it correctly either way you get a thyroid

> condition either hypo T or hyper T.

> > My new MD is Prudence Hall in Santa and she herself is on

> Armour! in fact she takes 5 grains. I finally found a armour

friendly

> provider- yeah!!!

> > she is great because she does not discount that I am an NP who

knows

> and therefore would know BS if I heard it.

> > She had me do this very interesting test for measuring your

thyroid

> levels via a computer. it involved strapping this computerized

sensor

> on your palm and tapping on your bracheoradalis reflex and

measuring

> the percentage of how responsive your reflex is. it is based on

truth.

> when you are hypo T all of your reflexes are decreased. when I

test my

> patient's reflexes I find that they are depressed in contrast to

> patients who have hyper T whose reflexes are increased or

heightened.

> > the problem with me is that I have lupus so my results may be

> screwed. lupus affects my connective tissue which tendons and

> ligaments are made up of. so my reflexes may be altered because

of it

> and affect my test result. so, I am going to have blood tests to

> correlate the results.

> > But, my overall impression of prudence is wonderful. her

center " the

> hall center " is not like ANY provider's office I have ever seen.

It is

> filled with Asian and middle eastern antiques; comfortable

couches;

> art and sculpture everywhere; oriental rugs; herbal teas; music;

an

> natural medicine store; natural cosmetics; books.

> > they offer a full list of natural medicine services including

> acupuncture; nutrition support; IV vitamin infusions; massage;

Chinese

> herbs; sauna; facials; lab testing; other sevices.

> > nancie

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ouch, Sam. Was that really necessary?

Eh, scratch the question mark, I don't wanna hear it.

Peace,

Really for truely, Chuck, the TSH test is still stupid, no matter what you

say...

And I really wish you'd get your head out from whatever oriface it is stuck

in

and open your eyes about inorganic iodine and iodine deficiency. I say that

because

what you, and other uninformed people have been saying makes all of you sound

like ignorant school children who " think " you know everything.

Sam

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Guest guest]

Thanks for answering for me Roni. Did this one go to your bulk e-mail?

Venizia

> > >

> > > When this does happen, what is the usual solution?

> > > What do people take?

> >

> > There is no one answer, and the diagnosis is complex, depending on

> > exactly what part of the system is malfunctioning. One approach,

> often

> > recommended on this list, is to treat the adrenals. You should

> rule out

> > possible neoplasms.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Venizia-

Have you had your appt with your new doctor yet? I don't think so, but I'm

just wondering :-)

Peace,

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Guest guest]

oh. schnauzers typing here

gracia

Gracia, I meant I had the 24 hour urine test, not the 2 hour test.

Ugh...too many Basenjis helping me type.

Sam

>

>

> I personally think the 24 hr urine test is the very best test for

adrenals, available from http://www.antibodyassay.com

> http://www.brodabarnes,org recommends this one.

> doing a urine test at the local hospital would not be accurate

however.

> Gracia

>

>

>

Recent Activity

a.. 16New Members

Visit Your Group

Cancer Resources

on

Find answers,

help and support.

FruitaBü Group

A Parent´s Place

to share ideas on

family cooking.

Health

Live Better Longer

Find new ways

to stay healthy.

.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nancie

Venizia

-- In hypothyroidism , " Nancie Barnett "

<deifspirit@...> wrote:

>

> venizia-

> oh sorry - sle is lupus. systemic lupus erythematosus.

> nancie

> Re: TSH test and iodine

>

>

> Nancie,

>

> What is sle? Been thinking about it and can't come up with it.

> It's probably obvious and I will wnat to kick myself when you tell me.

>

> Venizia

>

>

>

> Recent Activity

> a.. 15New

Members<hypothyroidism/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZGtuYm\

Z2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm\

1icnMEc3RpbWUDMTE5OTY3NjYyMw-->

> Visit Your Group

<hypothyroidism;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMjg0YnRoBF9TAzk3MzU5N\

zE0BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxM\

Tk5Njc2NjIz>

> Cancer Support

> on

Groups<http://us.ard./SIG=12nnrvifg/M=493064.12016247.12445656.10478265\

/D=grphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199683823/A=4617368/R=0/SIG=11uofhk5p/\

*http://advision.webevents./cancersupport/index.html>

>

> Connect w/ others

>

> find help & share

>

>

> Healthy Eating

Zone<http://us.ard./SIG=12mngjf0u/M=493064.12016231.124456479706571/D=g\

rphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199683823/A=4718982/R=0/SIG=11kunoe70/*htt\

p://advision.webevents./healthyeating/>

>

> Encouraging families

>

> to eat healthy.

>

> Health

> Fit for

Life<http://us.ard./SIG=12m9eafjl/M=493064.12016303.124456959706571/D=g\

rphealth/S=1709251082:NC/Y=/EXP=1199683823/A=5008809/R=0/SIG=10q26t77l/*htt\

p://health./>

>

> Getting fit is now

>

> easier than ever.

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Neil-

Long time no chat, how have you been? I must say I share your disappointment

in many of the doctors out there right now and their 5 minute office visits.

I remember when I was in 9th grade and went to the doctor saying that I felt

tired. In that 5 minute appt they ran one test and it was for mono. Can you

believe that - especially when they knew my mom had hypoT? I don't dare let

myself think about how much easier things would have been for me if they had

found

my hypoT then. Oh, or how about when I told two doctors that I still felt like

crap and pointed out that despite a couple months on levothyroxine and an

almost optimum TSH, and T4, my T3 was still not even in the normal range. And

they still wouldn't give me anything containing T3. Gotta love it.

Peace,

I would have to agree. In relying on the TSH test, you are making a rather

grand assumption that the hypothalamic-grand assugrand assumption that the

working properly. Very very often this is not the case at all. Doctors have

become major dopes and ONLY use the TSH test, they proclaim you " fine " and

if you bitch you are not right they cram Prozac at you.

In this world of " managed " care and 5 minute office visits, doctors do NOT

NOT NOT perform the lengthy physical evaluations that show sub clinical

hypothyroidism (been there, done that). I'll bet anything they have no idea

how to do a proper physical workup, or would dismiss it in favor of the TSH

bloodwork. The doctors don't even look up from their lab work paperwork, the

patients for all that matters are invisible. After finding a FANTASTIC

doctor, I realize how moronic the other doctors actually were.

After going the " Chuck " route, and put through the ringer at the hands of

typical endos and internists..typical endos and internists..<WBR>

And on Levoxyl I felt like crap...no matter the dosage. I ran my doseages up

and down for months, no comparison to Armour.

And the recommended levels of iodine by the 'WHO' are a joke, just like

their recommended levels of vitamin D, etc.

Neil

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489