Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Dawn, You wrote: > ... Now I have seen > Chuck talk about the full dose being around 200. > So how do I find out what would be the full dosage > would be for me? After carefully dissecting the recommendations from the manufacturer, 200 mcg is the " maximum recommended dose, " not the optimum " full replacement dose, " which depends on body weight and whether you have still have hormones. OTOH, both my mother and sister were at 200 mcg, when they were young, and they were not particularly heavy. Over time, my Mom came down to 100 at age 80, and my sister is at 150 mcg. My doctor also once commented to me that pre-menopausal women seem to take about double the replacement dose as men. He may have been stretching. The best way to find your full replacement dose is by testing. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Chuck - test what? Do u mean for her to experiment with her dosage and then get blood tested? Can u please take a look at my post of 2-2-2007 NEED ADVICE ON DOSAGES and comment on what u would do to proceed with numbers like mine? Dusty Re: Full replacement dose Dawn, You wrote: > ... Now I have seen > Chuck talk about the full dose being around 200. > So how do I find out what would be the full dosage > would be for me? After carefully dissecting the recommendations from the manufacturer, 200 mcg is the " maximum recommended dose, " not the optimum " full replacement dose, " which depends on body weight and whether you have still have hormones. OTOH, both my mother and sister were at 200 mcg, when they were young, and they were not particularly heavy. Over time, my Mom came down to 100 at age 80, and my sister is at 150 mcg. My doctor also once commented to me that pre-menopausal women seem to take about double the replacement dose as men. He may have been stretching. The best way to find your full replacement dose is by testing. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Dusty, You wrote: > > Chuck - test what? The process is called titration. The most commonly used tests for the purpose are TSH and FT3. For synthetic T4 medications, TSH is usually sufficient. With T3s, including Armour, FT3 is probably a more reliable indicator. > Do u mean for her to experiment with her dosage and then get blood tested? No. I mean for her doctor to go through the recommended titration procedure. > > Can u please take a look at my post of 2-2-2007 NEED ADVICE ON DOSAGES and > comment on what u would do to proceed with numbers like mine? Next time, please post the test results before your signature or indicate that something follows. Your post gave the impression that the only numbers in that post were your age (59) and your weight (180). That may be why few responded to your question. I deleted it without seeing any test results. Anyway, if you were taking T4 only, most doctors would interpret your TSH as saying you are hyperT. However, Cytomel can artificially suppress TSH, so the FT3 is more useful. It is where it should be, so I would leave your dosage alone and test again in a couple of months to confirm that this is stable. The fact that your doctor can't decide what to do is significant, given that he should have much more information than we do, such as what a physical examination would reveal. Since you are paying him for his expertise and judgment, I suggest you ask him to make a recommendation. It should also be his job to figure out why you are tired. There are LOTS of serious conditions that can cause that. The fact that you feel good EXCEPT for that one symptom, suggests that this is NOT due to hypoT, which causes a constellation of specific symptoms. If you only have that one, odds are good that you are euthyroid, as the FT3 indicates. You (really your doctor) should look to eliminate the other possible culprits. Recent studies have shown that a TSH below 0.1 is associated with potentially harmful cardiac changes and the first stages of osteoporosis, regardless of how the TSH got there. That is why for a safe margin, they recommend keeping TSH at 0.3 or higher. However, keeping it at 0.1 temporarily, while you sort things out, is probably not going to be significant. It just needs to be monitored. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Hi to all, Last summer I visited my doctor because I had been through a severe trauma which made me very anxious and depressed. To my surprise he arranged blood tests which cam back as follows: 13 September 06- TSH 8 - T4 11 - Antibodies 436 14 October 06- TSH 5.7 - T4 9.8 24 November 06 - TSH 9.4 - T4 10.4 25 January 07 - TSH 6.1 - T4 11.1 In early November I commenced taking Nutri Thyroid. May doctor cannot offer me Armour but can off thyroxine which I do not want to take as I have heard many problems can occur with the synthetic medication. The depression and anxiety are now gone and I am well with not symtoms at all although my blood pressure is usualy arround 112/70 and my pulse is 62 to 68 and my temperature is usually below 36.5 (All taken as I awaken). I do not know what to make of all this. Do I have a problem or not. I am afraid for the future. Comments please!!!!!!!! Kind regards, Suzanne Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: Dusty, You wrote: > > Whew, Every time I post here, I do something wrong and get criticized. I > just don't seem to get it right. Sorry it sounded like criticism. I certainly didn't mean it that way. I simply wanted to point out why I did not see your numbers in your earlier post. > > But anyway - I was under the impression that a hypo individual on meds > should strive to get their Free T3 and Free T4 into the upper levels of the > lab norms - at least beyond the l/2 way point. My T3 seems quite low here > so that's why I was pursuing additional dosing .... > Can you comment on the theory that a medicated hypo should strive for upper > middle range blood test numbers?g. ... In general, I would agree with it. However T3 can jump around, depending on when you last took it prior to the test. I thought both your FT3 and FT4 were close enough to the center to focus instead on your symptoms, which still seem to say something else is going on. Did you also have totals for T4 and T3? Those might help sort things out. Your free values are not all that low, although you do have some room to add more. I think it is significant that both FT4 and FT3 are just below the half way point. That suggests that if there is a dosage problem, it is not a conversion of T4 to T3 issue. You might have a problem with globulin binding, which can happen with an infection, stress, starvation, other diseases, or sometimes other medications. Your other tests don't seem to support that. If you add anything, I would suggest adding T4 only, since that will have less effect on the TSH. The next increment is 125 mcg. If you want to go higher still, I would cut back on the Cytomel to compensate. Have you been tested for sleep apnea? That can cause this same combination of problems. Again, sorry if I seemed less than helpful. Chuck --------------------------------- New is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Hi to all, Last summer I visited my doctor because I had been through a severe trauma which made me very anxious and depressed. To my surprise he arranged blood tests which cam back as follows: 13 September 06- TSH 8 - T4 11 - Antibodies 436 14 October 06- TSH 5.7 - T4 9.8 24 November 06 - TSH 9.4 - T4 10.4 25 January 07 - TSH 6.1 - T4 11.1 In early November I commenced taking Nutri Thyroid. May doctor cannot offer me Armour but can off thyroxine which I do not want to take as I have heard many problems can occur with the synthetic medication. The depression and anxiety are now gone and I am well with not symtoms at all although my blood pressure is usualy arround 112/70 and my pulse is 62 to 68 and my temperature is usually below 36.5 (All taken as I awaken). I do not know what to make of all this. Do I have a problem or not. I am afraid for the future. Comments please!!!!!!!! Kind regards, Suzanne Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: Dusty, You wrote: > > Whew, Every time I post here, I do something wrong and get criticized. I > just don't seem to get it right. Sorry it sounded like criticism. I certainly didn't mean it that way. I simply wanted to point out why I did not see your numbers in your earlier post. > > But anyway - I was under the impression that a hypo individual on meds > should strive to get their Free T3 and Free T4 into the upper levels of the > lab norms - at least beyond the l/2 way point. My T3 seems quite low here > so that's why I was pursuing additional dosing .... > Can you comment on the theory that a medicated hypo should strive for upper > middle range blood test numbers?g. ... In general, I would agree with it. However T3 can jump around, depending on when you last took it prior to the test. I thought both your FT3 and FT4 were close enough to the center to focus instead on your symptoms, which still seem to say something else is going on. Did you also have totals for T4 and T3? Those might help sort things out. Your free values are not all that low, although you do have some room to add more. I think it is significant that both FT4 and FT3 are just below the half way point. That suggests that if there is a dosage problem, it is not a conversion of T4 to T3 issue. You might have a problem with globulin binding, which can happen with an infection, stress, starvation, other diseases, or sometimes other medications. Your other tests don't seem to support that. If you add anything, I would suggest adding T4 only, since that will have less effect on the TSH. The next increment is 125 mcg. If you want to go higher still, I would cut back on the Cytomel to compensate. Have you been tested for sleep apnea? That can cause this same combination of problems. Again, sorry if I seemed less than helpful. Chuck --------------------------------- The all-new goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Suzanne- take the synthetic. People on natural have problems too - it depends on each individual's body chemistry. For all you know the synthetic was made for you.... but you won't know if you don't try. Bottom line is it is far more dangerous for you to have numbers like those shown below than it is for you to try the synthetic. Dusty Re: Full replacement dose Hi to all, Last summer I visited my doctor because I had been through a severe trauma which made me very anxious and depressed. To my surprise he arranged blood tests which cam back as follows: 13 September 06- TSH 8 - T4 11 - Antibodies 436 14 October 06- TSH 5.7 - T4 9.8 24 November 06 - TSH 9.4 - T4 10.4 25 January 07 - TSH 6.1 - T4 11.1 In early November I commenced taking Nutri Thyroid. May doctor cannot offer me Armour but can off thyroxine which I do not want to take as I have heard many problems can occur with the synthetic medication. The depression and anxiety are now gone and I am well with not symtoms at all although my blood pressure is usualy arround 112/70 and my pulse is 62 to 68 and my temperature is usually below 36.5 (All taken as I awaken). I do not know what to make of all this. Do I have a problem or not. I am afraid for the future. Comments please!!!!!!!! Kind regards, Suzanne Chuck B <gumboyayacox (DOT) <mailto:gumboyaya%40cox.net> net> wrote: Dusty, You wrote: > > Whew, Every time I post here, I do something wrong and get criticized. I > just don't seem to get it right. Sorry it sounded like criticism. I certainly didn't mean it that way. I simply wanted to point out why I did not see your numbers in your earlier post. > > But anyway - I was under the impression that a hypo individual on meds > should strive to get their Free T3 and Free T4 into the upper levels of the > lab norms - at least beyond the l/2 way point. My T3 seems quite low here > so that's why I was pursuing additional dosing .... > Can you comment on the theory that a medicated hypo should strive for upper > middle range blood test numbers?g. ... In general, I would agree with it. However T3 can jump around, depending on when you last took it prior to the test. I thought both your FT3 and FT4 were close enough to the center to focus instead on your symptoms, which still seem to say something else is going on. Did you also have totals for T4 and T3? Those might help sort things out. Your free values are not all that low, although you do have some room to add more. I think it is significant that both FT4 and FT3 are just below the half way point. That suggests that if there is a dosage problem, it is not a conversion of T4 to T3 issue. You might have a problem with globulin binding, which can happen with an infection, stress, starvation, other diseases, or sometimes other medications. Your other tests don't seem to support that. If you add anything, I would suggest adding T4 only, since that will have less effect on the TSH. The next increment is 125 mcg. If you want to go higher still, I would cut back on the Cytomel to compensate. Have you been tested for sleep apnea? That can cause this same combination of problems. Again, sorry if I seemed less than helpful. Chuck --------------------------------- New is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 , You wrote: > > I do not believe 75 mcg/day of Synthroid is anywhere near enough to > suppress the thyroid, but I'm open to peer reviewed evidence to the > contrary. > > In any event, some people have partial thyroid function, at least for a > time, and they do not need a full replacement dosage.... The " full replacement dosage " decreases in the last decades of life. My Mom was on 200 mcg most of her adult life but is now down to 75 mcg at age 83. Your mileage will definitely vary. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Thanks for this verification. I thought that this was going on, but no doctor ever told this to me. I do take issue with the fact that many MDs don't tell their patients what is going on, and don't tell them why they are prescribing something and what it does and what will happen. They tend to mysteryize their treatment, possibly to exert or maintain a position of authority. Roni Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: , You wrote: > > I do not believe 75 mcg/day of Synthroid is anywhere near enough to > suppress the thyroid, but I'm open to peer reviewed evidence to the > contrary. > > In any event, some people have partial thyroid function, at least for a > time, and they do not need a full replacement dosage.... The " full replacement dosage " decreases in the last decades of life. My Mom was on 200 mcg most of her adult life but is now down to 75 mcg at age 83. Your mileage will definitely vary. Chuck --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Roni, You wrote: > ... I do take issue with the fact that many MDs don't tell their > patients what is going on, and don't tell them why they are prescribing something and > what it does and what will happen. They tend to mysteryize their treatment, possibly > to exert or maintain a position of authority. I would put a different spin on it. My wife used to consult for medical practices that were having problems. One of the recurring issues was that physicians simply cannot spend much time with patients and expect to see enough to make a living. They don't have time to chat. Secondly, the vast majority of patients don't want to know details, particularly when they are given in medical jargon. Also, the traditional role of explaining prescriptions falls to the pharmacist. Of course, they don't have much time either, although mine keep trying to explain the same prescription over and over. Finally, some doctors may think the effectiveness of their treatments can depend on the patient's trust. Consequently, they may exude confidence when they are guessing. Mine evidently feels free to let me know when " we " are experimenting. I would suggest that as part of a patient's responsibility of being pro-active, we should let the physician know that we WANT explanations and are prepared to look things up and even study to be sure to understand things. Same deal for the pharmacists. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yes, I've gotton to that point now, because I can. However, without google right here at home, life becomes more difficult, especially if you have mobility issues. Patients who deserve information should get it, and I don't consider that chatting. Roni Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: Roni, You wrote: > ... I do take issue with the fact that many MDs don't tell their > patients what is going on, and don't tell them why they are prescribing something and > what it does and what will happen. They tend to mysteryize their treatment, possibly > to exert or maintain a position of authority. I would put a different spin on it. My wife used to consult for medical practices that were having problems. One of the recurring issues was that physicians simply cannot spend much time with patients and expect to see enough to make a living. They don't have time to chat. Secondly, the vast majority of patients don't want to know details, particularly when they are given in medical jargon. Also, the traditional role of explaining prescriptions falls to the pharmacist. Of course, they don't have much time either, although mine keep trying to explain the same prescription over and over. Finally, some doctors may think the effectiveness of their treatments can depend on the patient's trust. Consequently, they may exude confidence when they are guessing. Mine evidently feels free to let me know when " we " are experimenting. I would suggest that as part of a patient's responsibility of being pro-active, we should let the physician know that we WANT explanations and are prepared to look things up and even study to be sure to understand things. Same deal for the pharmacists. Chuck --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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