Adoption of CR at More Advanced Ages

[Guest guest]

And in addition, Francesca, the study of fruit flies I posted here a

month or so ago, shows that their mortality rate drops by 80% (yes,

drops BY 80%, TO only 20% of what it was) shortly after adopting CR

at an age equivalent to 60 years in humans.

The same is probably also true in humans.

Rodney.

>

> > But Fran, we don't know if beginning CR too late in life is

counter productive

> > either. Especially if one is overweight. Vigorous exercise is

probably self

> > limiting.

[Guest guest]

Probably? That's got to be the largest stretch I've heard. Maybe possibly. No model of the human body. No human experience yet. Don't even have a set point for humans, don't even know how to estimate individual protein intake for starters. Maybe if we were eating the food fed to the rats, I could be more positive but extrapolating data from fruit flies, in this manner doesn't pass the laugh test.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 8:02 PM

Subject: [ ] Adoption of CR at More Advanced Ages

And in addition, Francesca, the study of fruit flies I posted here a month or so ago, shows that their mortality rate drops by 80% (yes, drops BY 80%, TO only 20% of what it was) shortly after adopting CR at an age equivalent to 60 years in humans. The same is probably also true in humans.Rodney.

[Guest guest]

There've been other studies posted. But personally, I don't care about life

extension. I'm more interested in living fully til the end and not

suffering from chronic disease. Since I rarely get sick anymore, I'm

confident that CRON will help me achieve this.

on 11/21/2003 10:37 AM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

> Probably? That's got to be the largest stretch I've heard. Maybe possibly. No

> model of the human body. No human experience yet. Don't even have a set point

> for humans, don't even know how to estimate individual protein intake for

> starters. Maybe if we were eating the food fed to the rats, I could be more

> positive but extrapolating data from fruit flies, in this manner doesn't pass

> the laugh test.

>

> Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi Fran,

And I agree with that completely. That's the best we can hope for at our age, and I find it a worthwhile thing to do. I don't intend to do anything like marathons, but I do want to find a way to "free up" the breathing, since no one else has done it. I think we are perfectly able to "square" the curve out to 100 or more without extension.

BTW, I think we lost the last 2 90yo's in the neighborhood this week. One SCD, the other is out of it from stroke and on blood thinners. A BIG problem was getting the man into the hospital for tests immediately. They say: "at the first sign of a stroke get to the emergency room". That's not possible in our system. It takes a week. The first clue was his car accident 2 months ago, and blacking out - falling down walking around. Without an adamant support system (like a dr son) you won't get examined in time. I'm 67yo and I'm getting to be the oldest in this neighborhood.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesca Skelton

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:36 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Adoption of CR at More Advanced Ages

There've been other studies posted. But personally, I don't care about lifeextension. I'm more interested in living fully til the end and notsuffering from chronic disease. Since I rarely get sick anymore, I'mconfident that CRON will help me achieve this.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

Thanks for that input. Ok then. Permit me to modify my position.

Instead of my saying: " The same is probably also true in humans "

would you be able to accept, in its place, the following:

" Since there appears to be a rather similar life-extension response

to CR in many species - all the way from single-celled organisms,

through nematodes, fruit flies, mice, rats and dogs, and, to the

extent not-yet-complete studies have been done with monkies, there is

a pretty good likelihood that something rather similar will be found

to occur in humans " . ???

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote: > Probably? That's got to be the largest stretch I've heard.

Maybe possibly. No model of the human body. No human experience yet.

Don't even have a set point for humans, don't even know how to

estimate individual protein intake for starters. Maybe if we were

eating the food fed to the rats, I could be more positive but

extrapolating data from fruit flies, in this manner doesn't pass the

laugh test.

>

> Regards.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Rodney

>

> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 8:02 PM

> Subject: [ ] Adoption of CR at More Advanced Ages

>

>

> And in addition, Francesca, the study of fruit flies I posted

here a

> month or so ago, shows that their mortality rate drops by 80%

(yes,

> drops BY 80%, TO only 20% of what it was) shortly after adopting

CR

> at an age equivalent to 60 years in humans.

>

> The same is probably also true in humans.

>

> Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney,

I agree that tests of those give us insights as to what might be true for humans. But I'm reminded that even in test data used to "verify" drugs, it often happens the same effect doesn't work in humans. I think CR probably squares the curve simply because we eat a "healthier" diet and being health conscious do other things as well. The difficulty in CR is there are no human trials yet and we likely won't see them. CR is the best we've got and we may live to 90 or 100 but I still won't know if it was the CR that squared the curve or lengthened lifespan. In any case, the selection of things like "set point", how to determine protein intake, how much and what type of exercise to do at what age are all things that have not been determined.

We don't even know what criteria to use as a measuring stick for aging except I believe strongly in blood pressure. Lipid levels,eg, IMO, are suspect for determining anything to do with longevity much less life extension. We need correlations of real parametres, maybe IGF-1, homocysteine(smile), BG, liver enzymes, etc. That's human data.

I am reminded also that some constantly refer to paleos while at the same time rejecting the diet of a gorilla - very close to us genetically. Why is it that we can glean data from worm tests, but not a gorilla? 5'8" 385# lifts his weight easily - mostly vegetarian. The CR group spans from far left to far right. Even how much exercise is beneficial versus damaging. How do we judge when to quit increasing exercise? Age matters a lot in starting to run and I suspect it and health matters also in the timing of CR initiation.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:29 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Adoption of CR at More Advanced Ages

Hi JW:Thanks for that input. Ok then. Permit me to modify my position.Instead of my saying: "The same is probably also true in humans" would you be able to accept, in its place, the following:"Since there appears to be a rather similar life-extension response to CR in many species - all the way from single-celled organisms, through nematodes, fruit flies, mice, rats and dogs, and, to the extent not-yet-complete studies have been done with monkies, there is a pretty good likelihood that something rather similar will be found to occur in humans". ??? > Probably? That's got to be the largest stretch I've heard. Maybe possibly. No model of the human body. No human experience yet. Don't even have a set point for humans, don't even know how to estimate individual protein intake for starters. Maybe if we were eating the food fed to the rats, I could be more positive but extrapolating data from fruit flies, in this manner doesn't pass the laugh test. > > Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

We can all agree, I think, that little is certain, apart from

taxes ; ^ )

Rodney.

> Probably? That's got to be the largest stretch I've

heard.

> Maybe possibly. No model of the human body. No human experience

yet.

> Don't even have a set point for humans, don't even know how to

> estimate individual protein intake for starters. Maybe if we were

> eating the food fed to the rats, I could be more positive but

> extrapolating data from fruit flies, in this manner doesn't pass

the

> laugh test.

> >

> > Regards.