Re: Iodine nonsense

[Guest guest]

YIKES bad bad advice Chuck. I think the iodine group would be more helpful

but I will try to find the post. we really get so many benefits from

iodine/iodide---we need to learn how to use it. there are so many smart ppl

using it effectively, if we could just reach the tipping point.

Gracia

Barb,

You wrote:

>

> Probably not, because every time I increase my iodine, my hypo symptoms get

> worse....

That is the rather well documented, and well known, Wolff-Chaikoff

Effect. Although many on this list deny that it even exists, it has been

shown to persist in some cases into myxedema.

> ... I only do 12.5 mg. Iodoral. When I increase it, I gain weight and

> all hypo symptoms return. How do I get through that? My saturation as

> 48% in the loading test -- so obvious deficiency is still there.

That is not obvious at all, since the loading test is completely bogus.

It completely ignores the possibility that iodine might be eliminated by

a pathway other than urine. No responsible practitioner uses it.

You are being led down a primrose path.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

increase Iodoral to what amount? I would recommend a minimum of 50mg (I take

100mg all in the morning). Are you on thyroid meds? you might have to

increase them.

Gracia

Barb,

You wrote:

>

> Probably not, because every time I increase my iodine, my hypo symptoms get

> worse....

That is the rather well documented, and well known, Wolff-Chaikoff

Effect. Although many on this list deny that it even exists, it has been

shown to persist in some cases into myxedema.

> ... I only do 12.5 mg. Iodoral. When I increase it, I gain weight and

> all hypo symptoms return. How do I get through that? My saturation as

> 48% in the loading test -- so obvious deficiency is still there.

That is not obvious at all, since the loading test is completely bogus.

It completely ignores the possibility that iodine might be eliminated by

a pathway other than urine. No responsible practitioner uses it.

You are being led down a primrose path.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

That's an intriguing possibility, Chuck, and one I haven't considered. My

concern with iodine is not so much related to hypo as to breast cancer. There

is a growing body of evidence that suggests breast cancer might in part be

linked to iodine deficiency. Obviously, I want to do everything in my power

to prevent a recurrence. At the moment, however, I'm sticking with only 12.5

mg.

Could you elaborate on the Wolff-Chaikoff effect? I have never heard of it,

but it obviously applies to me.

Thanks.

BarbF

In a message dated 6/10/2008 9:03:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

gumboyaya@... writes:

It completely ignores the possibility that iodine might be eliminated by

a pathway other than urine.

**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best

2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

[Guest guest]

That's my problem, Gracie. Getting passed the hypo symptoms.

BarbF

In a message dated 6/11/2008 12:40:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

circe@... writes:

--<WBR>--we need to learn how to use it. there are so many smart ppl using

it effectively, if we could just reach the tipping

**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best

2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

[Guest guest]

To the first person brave enough to ask the iodine question: Thank you.

I have been very interested and very quiet on this subject as I am clearly not

as educated on this subject as others on this group.? I have been diagnosed hypo

for only 6 months and taking meds for 2.5 months (since I had it in my head I

could do something about it with alternative means).? That did not work for me.?

The whole time I?have been reading this board and so of course I tried Iodoral

too.? And boy did my symptoms get worse.? I do not recall anyone saying that

before and I surely was not going to be the first!

That being said.... And that I have a fabulous MD who diagnosed me before I was

even totally aware or willing to accept a diagnosis.? I asked her about iodine

when getting my prescription increased and she laughed.? She said that it would

not help with my symptoms and basically had things to say about it that I am

sure others on the board would find offensive.? (And since I am not versed

enough on the subject I will not go there.)? I am going to an alternative center

for diagnostics in two weeks to see what can be done to assist my traditional

treatment and you can be sure I will bring up iodine.? I am open to ANYTHING

that will make me feel better and get back to a " normal " state for everyday

living.

I would be happy to share what that doc says with the group if anyone is

interested.

Iodine nonsense

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> YIKES bad bad advice Chuck....

Can you name one published study that verified the loading test? There

are lots of studies on the TSH, FT3, ACTH, glucose tolerance, and all

the other standard tests but none on this.

Old timers on the list have seen the editorial on the test by Dr. Gaby

that was published in 2005 in the Townsend Letters.

http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2005/gabyiodine0805.htm

According to him, the one lab that offers the loading test reports that

it " detects " a serious iodine deficiency in 92-98% of people that take

it. Anyone that believes a test like that could be valid, that it is

anything other than a trick to sell iodine products, deserves to be taken.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Barb,

You wrote:

>

> There is a growing body of evidence that suggests breast cancer might in

part be

> linked to iodine deficiency....

Sure, but the study in progress now on fibrocystic breast pain is curing

" deficiency " with doses less than 1 mg. Folks on this list have been

watching it to see if there are any adverse reactions in the 3 mg range,

as was published years ago. The " body of evidence " I have seen connects

breast cancer to thyroid function, so the preventative iodine levels are

again under 1 mg.

Do you know of any research on the benefits of megadoses of iodine on

breast cancer?

>

> Could you elaborate on the Wolff-Chaikoff effect?

Basically, ramping up iodine intake suppresses thyroid output, at least

temporarily, usually lasting only a few days but longer if the iodine

intake continues to increase. At one time they used this effect to

prepare people for thyroid surgery, making them quite hypoT but only for

a short period. You don't see it at all if you are taking replacement

thyroid hormones.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Jenn,

You wrote:

>

> To the first person brave enough to ask the iodine question: Thank you.

Lordy, that battle is on-going. A glance at our archived messages shows

this is probably the most popular single topic for this list.

> ...I had it in my head I could do something about it with

> alternative means).? That did not work for me.? ...

We must get at least one newbie per week that asks for an herbal remedy.

There isn't one, unless you just think you are hypoT from reading the

symptoms.

If you really have thyroid disease, you won't feel well or be healthy

until you replace those hormones. The alternative choices, if you want

to consider them, are all about the form of the replacement and

treatment for possible other conditions. Unfortunately, replacement is

" necessary but not sufficient, " which is the mathematical way of saying

not everyone responds to replacement alone and may need other stuff to

make it work properly.

> been reading this board and so of course I tried Iodoral too.? And boy

> did my symptoms get worse.?

That is another common warning posted on this list, that iodine triggers

the antibodies of Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Once your thyroid is

completely gone, though, this is much less likely.

While you consider iodine supplementation, keep in mind that thyroid

hormones are themselves a form of iodine. T4 is a thyronine molecule

with FOUR iodine atoms attached. T3 is the same with three iodine atoms.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

My doctor doesn't test everyone - only if they have things like

thyroid, fibroids, fibrocystic breasts - AND he doesn't find that

everyone is deficient. Like I said - I don't KNOW who is right about

any of this or if there is one easy simple answer - but my objection

was to the idea that any doctor that did the test was somehow

incompetent. And as to what labs " recognize " - well insurance

doesn't recognize plenty of things that have done wonders for many

people - allopathic medicine likes to discount many things in favor

of drugs - I've gotten more help, consideration, actual CURES and

such in two years from my doctor then I did from all the others I saw

for the past 40 years - so has my husband - a good bit of what I

experienced before was utter nonsense - useless or harmful and also

expensive!

> >

> > BUT I really take exception to the statement that no responsible

> > practitioner uses the loading test! ... So I do

> > resent that statement!

>

> If the test shows that everybody is iodine deficient, how is using

it

> even logical, let alone responsible? You (and your practitioner)

are

> certainly entitled to believe that absolutely everyone needs a big

slug

> of iodine every day, but taking a test that says that, is just

wasting

> money. Just go ahead and gobble that iodine, if you believe it

helps,

> and recommend it to everyone you meet. However, wasting money on a

> useless test that very few labs even recognize is not responsible.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

is,

You wrote:

>

> My doctor doesn't test everyone - only if they have things like

> thyroid, fibroids, fibrocystic breasts - AND he doesn't find that

> everyone is deficient....

How do you know? Does your doctor violate patient privacy to tell you

how other people did on their tests? Again, one of the few labs that

will even do the test, says that up to 98% test positive. Dr. Gaby

explained why a 50 mg input of iodine will not produce 50 mg of iodine

in the urine the next day. The assumption of the test is that people

with a deficiency will absorb that much, when it is impossible.

> ... my objection

> was to the idea that any doctor that did the test was somehow

> incompetent. ...

I never said anything about competence. I said " responsible, " which is

rather different. A responsible doctor would take the time to evaluate

and choose a test that was appropriate and reliable. An incompetent one

wouldn't know the difference.

> ...a good bit of what I

> experienced before was utter nonsense - useless or harmful and also

> expensive!

Alternative practitioners do not have a monopoly on useless,

questionable, or over priced approaches. Caveat emptor.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org

why not ask ppl who use high dose iodine what benefits they have seen?

Talking aobut 1-3mg of iodine is just stupid. those of us who use it know that

something is very stinky in Denmark. Consider how big pharma would be impacted

by the proper use of iodine/iodide.

gracia

Barb,

You wrote:

>

> There is a growing body of evidence that suggests breast cancer might in

part be

> linked to iodine deficiency....

Sure, but the study in progress now on fibrocystic breast pain is curing

" deficiency " with doses less than 1 mg. Folks on this list have been

watching it to see if there are any adverse reactions in the 3 mg range,

as was published years ago. The " body of evidence " I have seen connects

breast cancer to thyroid function, so the preventative iodine levels are

again under 1 mg.

Do you know of any research on the benefits of megadoses of iodine on

breast cancer?

>

> Could you elaborate on the Wolff-Chaikoff effect?

Basically, ramping up iodine intake suppresses thyroid output, at least

temporarily, usually lasting only a few days but longer if the iodine

intake continues to increase. At one time they used this effect to

prepare people for thyroid surgery, making them quite hypoT but only for

a short period. You don't see it at all if you are taking replacement

thyroid hormones.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi Gracia...that's what I did...slowly tried to get up to 50 mg. But my

thyroid went crazy...had to add lots of AT and still wasn't getting symptom

relief. Now I'm a 12.5; things are fairly controlled and I hesitate to rattle

the cage.

BarbF

In a message dated 6/12/2008 12:27:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

circe@... writes:

increase Iodoral to what amount? I would recommend a minimum of 50mg

**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best

2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

[Guest guest]

One reason I know is because my husband is also a patient AND I have had a lot

of conversations with other patients some of whom work with my husband (most are

women). They are NOT all tested and those that were they did not all come up

deficient. If the majority did that were tested that is possibly because he

only tested those that had symptoms that suggested a deficiency. Not

interested in arguing about this because it is obviously controversial depending

on who you talk to.

[Guest guest]

about half of the ppl I work with are now taking Iodoral b/c of my

recommendation, to deal with various health issues. they didn't do any testing!

All of these ppl have been put on drugs that are doing nothing for them but

causing more probs. not to mention what we see everyday happening to MR

residents---the system is very sick. I don't know how we can be scared of

iodine and not be scared of business as usual medicine.

I can testify that using iodine, B vitamins and minerals, especially magnesium

is more powerful and healing than valium, ativan, phenobarbitol etc etc.

Gracia

My doctor doesn't test everyone - only if they have things like

thyroid, fibroids, fibrocystic breasts - AND he doesn't find that

everyone is deficient. Like I said - I don't KNOW who is right about

any of this or if there is one easy simple answer - but my objection

was to the idea that any doctor that did the test was somehow

incompetent. And as to what labs " recognize " - well insurance

doesn't recognize plenty of things that have done wonders for many

people - allopathic medicine likes to discount many things in favor

of drugs - I've gotten more help, consideration, actual CURES and

such in two years from my doctor then I did from all the others I saw

for the past 40 years - so has my husband - a good bit of what I

experienced before was utter nonsense - useless or harmful and also

expensive!

> >

> > BUT I really take exception to the statement that no responsible

> > practitioner uses the loading test! ... So I do

> > resent that statement!

>

> If the test shows that everybody is iodine deficient, how is using

it

> even logical, let alone responsible? You (and your practitioner)

are

> certainly entitled to believe that absolutely everyone needs a big

slug

> of iodine every day, but taking a test that says that, is just

wasting

> money. Just go ahead and gobble that iodine, if you believe it

helps,

> and recommend it to everyone you meet. However, wasting money on a

> useless test that very few labs even recognize is not responsible.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

yikes

atoms/molecules vs milligrams.

Gracia

While you consider iodine supplementation, keep in mind that thyroid

hormones are themselves a form of iodine. T4 is a thyronine molecule

with FOUR iodine atoms attached. T3 is the same with three iodine atoms.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> atoms/molecules vs milligrams.

Do you just take a molecule of Armour?

My daily dose of levothyroxine, contains about 4 x 10^17 atoms of iodine, when

the RDA only contains about 17 x 10^17.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Gracia has more than once referred to conventional allopathic doctors as

quacks or worse; but the fact is that among educated people the methods,

practices and practitioners she recommends will have the name of quack

or con artist applied to them quite often. None of the alternative

practices that Gracia recommends have ever had a single peer reviewed

article in support of them to my knowledge. And Chuck [who,

incidentally IS a scientist] has repeatedly challenged her to supply

EVEN ONE credible article to support her opinions and the opinions of

what is [sometimes very disparagingly] referred to as " the iodine

docs " . As you may suspect the total so far is zero. As a matter of

fact there are quite a number of peer reviewed articles that point out

the harm that can be caused by some hypothyroid patients if they take

iodine. Gracia's response is often that they just didn't get enough.

None of which means we should condemn alternative medicine out of hand.

After all, we're all different despite our similarities; and what works

for some does not work for others. So another avenue is desirable for

those not well served by their present treatment. But it might be

better to seek out another QUALIFIED doctor over a " quack " or con artist.

And if you do decide to use alternative treatment you're going to need

to do a tremendous amount of research. For be assured that almost any

quack or con artist will have a list of supporters and testimonials to

buttress his nefarious practice. And there's hardly a method or

practice, no matter how absurd that doesn't have some support [sometimes

a lot] on the internet. So you have to try to find some way to

differentiate between BS and facts.

One of the things you will find out about hypothyroidism is that if your

thyroid has failed completely then you MUST take a hormone replacement

OR YOU WILL DIE. There are no " supplements " that will do the trick; and

whether many [or any] of them help at all is debatable.

Best,

> Re: Iodine nonsense

>

<hypothyroidism/message/39135;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZjQ2Z29\

yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzkxMzUEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxMzI2Njc2Mg-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " jennshaffer1@... " jennshaffer1@...

> <mailto:jennshaffer1@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine%20nonsense>

> jennshaffer1 <jennshaffer1>

>

>

> Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:51 am (PDT)

>

> To the first person brave enough to ask the iodine question: Thank you.

>

> I have been very interested and very quiet on this subject as I am

> clearly not as educated on this subject as others on this group.? I

> have been diagnosed hypo for only 6 months and taking meds for 2.5

> months (since I had it in my head I could do something about it with

> alternative means).? That did not work for me.? The whole time I?have

> been reading this board and so of course I tried Iodoral too.? And boy

> did my symptoms get worse.? I do not recall anyone saying that before

> and I surely was not going to be the first!

>

> That being said.... And that I have a fabulous MD who diagnosed me

> before I was even totally aware or willing to accept a diagnosis.? I

> asked her about iodine when getting my prescription increased and she

> laughed.? She said that it would not help with my symptoms and

> basically had things to say about it that I am sure others on the

> board would find offensive.? (And since I am not versed enough on the

> subject I will not go there.)? I am going to an alternative center for

> diagnostics in two weeks to see what can be done to assist my

> traditional treatment and you can be sure I will bring up iodine.? I

> am open to ANYTHING that will make me feel better and get back to a

> " normal " state for everyday living.

>

> I would be happy to share what that doc says with the group if anyone

> is interested.

>

> Iodine nonsense

>

> Gracia,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > YIKES bad bad advice Chuck....

>

> Can you name one published study that verified the loading test? There

> are lots of studies on the TSH, FT3, ACTH, glucose tolerance, and all

> the other standard tests but none on this.

>

> Old timers on the list have seen the editorial on the test by Dr. Gaby

> that was published in 2005 in the Townsend Letters.

>

> http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2005/gabyiodine0805.htm

> <http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2005/gabyiodine0805.htm>

>

> According to him, the one lab that offers the loading test reports that

> it " detects " a serious iodine deficiency in 92-98% of people that take

> it. Anyone that believes a test like that could be valid, that it is

> anything other than a trick to sell iodine products, deserves to be taken.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

she has been very lucky that none of the medical providers where she works have

written her up for practicing medicine without a license. if they wanted to-

they could call the cops on her.

From:

Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:42 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Iodine nonsense

Gracia has more than once referred to conventional allopathic doctors as

quacks or worse; but the fact is that among educated people the methods,

practices and practitioners she recommends will have the name of quack

or con artist applied to them quite often. None of the alternative

practices that Gracia recommends have ever had a single peer reviewed

article in support of them to my knowledge. And Chuck [who,

incidentally IS a scientist] has repeatedly challenged her to supply

EVEN ONE credible article to support her opinions and the opinions of

what is [sometimes very disparagingly] referred to as " the iodine

docs " . As you may suspect the total so far is zero. As a matter of

fact there are quite a number of peer reviewed articles that point out

the harm that can be caused by some hypothyroid patients if they take

iodine. Gracia's response is often that they just didn't get enough.

None of which means we should condemn alternative medicine out of hand.

After all, we're all different despite our similarities; and what works

for some does not work for others. So another avenue is desirable for

those not well served by their present treatment. But it might be

better to seek out another QUALIFIED doctor over a " quack " or con artist.

And if you do decide to use alternative treatment you're going to need

to do a tremendous amount of research. For be assured that almost any

quack or con artist will have a list of supporters and testimonials to

buttress his nefarious practice. And there's hardly a method or

practice, no matter how absurd that doesn't have some support [sometimes

a lot] on the internet. So you have to try to find some way to

differentiate between BS and facts.

One of the things you will find out about hypothyroidism is that if your

thyroid has failed completely then you MUST take a hormone replacement

OR YOU WILL DIE. There are no " supplements " that will do the trick; and

whether many [or any] of them help at all is debatable.

Best,

> Re: Iodine nonsense

>

<hypothyroidism/message/39135;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZjQ2Z29\

yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzkxMzUEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxMzI2Njc2Mg-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " jennshaffer1@... " jennshaffer1@...

> <mailto:jennshaffer1@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine%20nonsense>

> jennshaffer1 <jennshaffer1>

>

>

> Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:51 am (PDT)

>

> To the first person brave enough to ask the iodine question: Thank you.

>

> I have been very interested and very quiet on this subject as I am

> clearly not as educated on this subject as others on this group.? I

> have been diagnosed hypo for only 6 months and taking meds for 2.5

> months (since I had it in my head I could do something about it with

> alternative means).? That did not work for me.? The whole time I?have

> been reading this board and so of course I tried Iodoral too.? And boy

> did my symptoms get worse.? I do not recall anyone saying that before

> and I surely was not going to be the first!

>

> That being said.... And that I have a fabulous MD who diagnosed me

> before I was even totally aware or willing to accept a diagnosis.? I

> asked her about iodine when getting my prescription increased and she

> laughed.? She said that it would not help with my symptoms and

> basically had things to say about it that I am sure others on the

> board would find offensive.? (And since I am not versed enough on the

> subject I will not go there.)? I am going to an alternative center for

> diagnostics in two weeks to see what can be done to assist my

> traditional treatment and you can be sure I will bring up iodine.? I

> am open to ANYTHING that will make me feel better and get back to a

> " normal " state for everyday living.

>

> I would be happy to share what that doc says with the group if anyone

> is interested.

>

> Iodine nonsense

>

> Gracia,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > YIKES bad bad advice Chuck....

>

> Can you name one published study that verified the loading test? There

> are lots of studies on the TSH, FT3, ACTH, glucose tolerance, and all

> the other standard tests but none on this.

>

> Old timers on the list have seen the editorial on the test by Dr. Gaby

> that was published in 2005 in the Townsend Letters.

>

> http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2005/gabyiodine0805.htm

> <http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2005/gabyiodine0805.htm>

>

> According to him, the one lab that offers the loading test reports that

> it " detects " a serious iodine deficiency in 92-98% of people that take

> it. Anyone that believes a test like that could be valid, that it is

> anything other than a trick to sell iodine products, deserves to be taken.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

I would be interested to know what dose you took. IMO the minimum dose is

50mg (4 tabs). I have taken 50--100mg for 2+ years, and am quite sure I could

have been spared lifelong misery, if docs only knew about it. I am quite sure

there will be lawsuits.

I don't mind if you post what your doc said, but it probly is the usual

malarkey.

http://www.optimox.com read the research

Believe it or not, this site has a fairly civil discussion of iodine. On

Shomon's group, discussion is impossible (not b/c of , who isn't really

there.)

Gracia

To the first person brave enough to ask the iodine question: Thank you.

I have been very interested and very quiet on this subject as I am clearly not

as educated on this subject as others on this group.? I have been diagnosed hypo

for only 6 months and taking meds for 2.5 months (since I had it in my head I

could do something about it with alternative means).? That did not work for me.?

The whole time I?have been reading this board and so of course I tried Iodoral

too.? And boy did my symptoms get worse.? I do not recall anyone saying that

before and I surely was not going to be the first!

That being said.... And that I have a fabulous MD who diagnosed me before I

was even totally aware or willing to accept a diagnosis.? I asked her about

iodine when getting my prescription increased and she laughed.? She said that it

would not help with my symptoms and basically had things to say about it that I

am sure others on the board would find offensive.? (And since I am not versed

enough on the subject I will not go there.)? I am going to an alternative center

for diagnostics in two weeks to see what can be done to assist my traditional

treatment and you can be sure I will bring up iodine.? I am open to ANYTHING

that will make me feel better and get back to a " normal " state for everyday

living.

I would be happy to share what that doc says with the group if anyone is

interested.

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[Guest guest]

For the first 3 months that I used Iodoral (50mg) I was exceedlingly tired.

I thought I had permanent CFS. Now I think I should have taken 100mg per day,

plus the ATP cofactors http://www.vrp.com and more zinc and copper.

now I take all those things.

also sometimes peeps need more thyroid meds, but some peeps can d/c thyroid

meds. I still take 4 grains Armour.

Gracia

That's my problem, Gracie. Getting passed the hypo symptoms.

BarbF

In a message dated 6/11/2008 12:40:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

circe@... writes:

--<WBR>--we need to learn how to use it. there are so many smart ppl using

it effectively, if we could just reach the tipping

**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best

2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

[Guest guest]

have you looked at http://www.breastcancerchoices.org ?

Gracia

That's an intriguing possibility, Chuck, and one I haven't considered. My

concern with iodine is not so much related to hypo as to breast cancer. There

is a growing body of evidence that suggests breast cancer might in part be

linked to iodine deficiency. Obviously, I want to do everything in my power

to prevent a recurrence. At the moment, however, I'm sticking with only 12.5

mg.

Could you elaborate on the Wolff-Chaikoff effect? I have never heard of it,

but it obviously applies to me.

Thanks.

BarbF

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[Guest guest]

There is a BIG difference between replacing something your body makes anyway -

such as thyroid hormone or cortisol and taking something that interrupts a

normal process in the body thereby causes more side effects that then need

another drug to relieve the symptoms caused by the side effects. Some drugs

have their place - such as antibiotics - when they are REALLY needed and some

for temporary crisis situations and of course pain killers at times. But all

you have to do is look at all the evidence against long term use of most of the

things they seem to be trying to put the entire country on to see how they are

making people SICKER all the time. Then look at those that reject the drug

based medical system and see how they are doing. I know people on both sides.

The ones that I see running to pure allopathic doctors and taking whatever

prescriptions they write for them are getting more and more sick and the ones

that reject that are a lot healthier.

[Guest guest]

I definitely consider myself lucky! Sad thing is there are not enough of what I

consider REAL doctors around. Most are brainwashed or they are in it for the

money. If you can spend 2 minutes hearing a patient's symtoms and write a

prescription by leaving the room and looking it up in the PDR and the patient

leaves feeling you've done something and temporarily feels better (until the

side effects kick in and often they don't realize where they came from) - then

you charge the insurance and get a nice big payment (plus the patient's copay) -

you have a good business going on. Then when they come back complaining of

other symtoms you can do the same thing again.

I know some allopathic doctors aren't like this - but even then they are often

so convinced of the nonsense they have had drummed into their heads that it is

very difficult to get through to them. I have heard some of the most ridiculous

things come out of doctor's heads and said to people I know.

My doctor told me that when he was in medical school they handed him all those

books (he pointed at the bookcases lining his walls) and told him that was how

it was - every patient was just supposed to fit that mold. Then he said " over

the years I've learned it wasn't true - every patient is different " .

Personally some things I've been told by doctors:

Fever and bad sore throat - age 32. Told in no uncertain terms that " people

over 25 don't GET strep throat! "

After giving birth - trying to breast feed and wanting to lose weight: " Just

stick to 1200 calories and you DON'T need vitamins! "

Living on 1000 calories, exhausted and not losing an ounce of suddenly gained 20

pounds: " You HAVE to get below 1000 calories! "

Exercising, eating way less then I should be burning and not able to lose

weight: " Some people just have to eat less then others "

Oh and at 25 with bad orthostatic hypotension and a number of other symtoms so

bad I thought I had something fatal: " All your tests were normal - all I can

say is some people just have periods of times where they feel bad! " (this from

a highly recommended internist)

[Guest guest]

Docs are only as good as the info they are given from the patient or the

patients medical history and current testing. Imagine that job - if we are

conscious (hopefully), we come in, sit down and begin to try and explain

what is wrong ( many of us, I'm sure doing so in much the same way that the

non mechanic types amongst us try to explain whats wrong with our cars!!),

and the doc has to decipher what we say and apply his knowledge as best he

can to begin ruling out what may be wrong. Now, I've often wondered how a

doc ever gets it rightgiven that tons of ailments cause so many of the same

symptoms and given that patients don't generally give a truly clear picture

of what the problem may be. Docs can't win - if we come to them right after

having had a baby and say we can't lose weight he's a drug pusher if he

tries to help with some kind of meds - but if he sends us home with a

prescription to eat less then he's insensitive or under educated or arrogant

or whatever.

I have seen my share of non traditional docs and my experience is that their

average of getting it right (my diagnosis) right then and there (that first

visit) is right on par with that of a traditional doc. Poor

treatment/service is a very real aspect of visiting non traditional docs.

I've had an acupuncturist hit a nerve in my hand so hard/intensely that I

couldn't use the hand for some time; an osteopath put some kinda supposed

vitamin crap in my veins that nearly killed me with an allergic reaction and

the worst was a chiropractor who so did not know what he was doing that my

neck was permanently damaged by his adjustments. I had to wear a neck brace

and I had to be in traction after that little escapade.

The most unfortunate aspect of non traditional medicine is the out of pocket

expense to the patient as my insurances typically (over the years) would not

pay.

I find it hard to believe that of all the professors/teachers and teaching

hospital docs (when theyare student/interns etc) a student doc is exposed

to, not one told your doc that the patients didn't have to fit into a mold.

If you just think about it, you'll know that can't be true. I'm guessing

your doc was grandstanding for your benefit so that when he did diagnose you

-you would be impressed! (Much like the guy who forever claims he's made his

fortune all alone with no help -pulling himself up by his own bootstraps).

Anyway - there are good and bad on both ends of the spectrum.

Dusty

said something along those lines

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of is Baranek

Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 7:41 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Iodine nonsense

I definitely consider myself lucky! Sad thing is there are not enough of

what I consider REAL doctors around. Most are brainwashed or they are in it

for the money. If you can spend 2 minutes hearing a patient's symtoms and

write a prescription by leaving the room and looking it up in the PDR and

the patient leaves feeling you've done something and temporarily feels

better (until the side effects kick in and often they don't realize where

they came from) - then you charge the insurance and get a nice big payment

(plus the patient's copay) - you have a good business going on. Then when

they come back complaining of other symtoms you can do the same thing again.

I know some allopathic doctors aren't like this - but even then they are

often so convinced of the nonsense they have had drummed into their heads

that it is very difficult to get through to them. I have heard some of the

most ridiculous things come out of doctor's heads and said to people I know.

My doctor told me that when he was in medical school they handed him all

those books (he pointed at the bookcases lining his walls) and told him that

was how it was - every patient was just supposed to fit that mold. Then he

said " over the years I've learned it wasn't true - every patient is

different " .

Personally some things I've been told by doctors:

Fever and bad sore throat - age 32. Told in no uncertain terms that " people

over 25 don't GET strep throat! "

After giving birth - trying to breast feed and wanting to lose weight: " Just

stick to 1200 calories and you DON'T need vitamins! "

Living on 1000 calories, exhausted and not losing an ounce of suddenly

gained 20 pounds: " You HAVE to get below 1000 calories! "

Exercising, eating way less then I should be burning and not able to lose

weight: " Some people just have to eat less then others "

Oh and at 25 with bad orthostatic hypotension and a number of other symtoms

so bad I thought I had something fatal: " All your tests were normal - all I

can say is some people just have periods of times where they feel bad! "

(this from a highly recommended internist)

[Guest guest]

What was that you wrote about your Mom taking " LOTS " of meds ?????

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Gracia

Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:03 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Iodine nonsense

For the first 3 months that I used Iodoral (50mg) I was exceedlingly tired.

I thought I had permanent CFS. Now I think I should have taken 100mg per

day, plus the ATP cofactors http://www.vrp. <http://www.vrp.com> com and

more zinc and copper.

now I take all those things.

also sometimes peeps need more thyroid meds, but some peeps can d/c thyroid

meds. I still take 4 grains Armour.

Gracia

That's my problem, Gracie. Getting passed the hypo symptoms.

BarbF

In a message dated 6/11/2008 12:40:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

circe@... <mailto:circe%40gwi.net> writes:

--<WBR>--we need to learn how to use it. there are so many smart ppl using

it effectively, if we could just reach the tipping

**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best

2008. (http://citysbest.

<http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102>

aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't be affected at all, because folks who are using mega doses of

iodine are going to end up needing the assistance of mainstream medicine to

make them right again!

dusty

_____

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Gracia

Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:35 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Iodine nonsense

http://www.breastca <http://www.breastcancerchoices.org> ncerchoices.org

why not ask ppl who use high dose iodine what benefits they have seen?

Talking aobut 1-3mg of iodine is just stupid. those of us who use it know

that something is very stinky in Denmark. Consider how big pharma would be

impacted by the proper use of iodine/iodide.

gracia

Barb,

You wrote:

>

> There is a growing body of evidence that suggests breast cancer might in

part be

> linked to iodine deficiency....

Sure, but the study in progress now on fibrocystic breast pain is curing

" deficiency " with doses less than 1 mg. Folks on this list have been

watching it to see if there are any adverse reactions in the 3 mg range,

as was published years ago. The " body of evidence " I have seen connects

breast cancer to thyroid function, so the preventative iodine levels are

again under 1 mg.

Do you know of any research on the benefits of megadoses of iodine on

breast cancer?

>

> Could you elaborate on the Wolff-Chaikoff effect?

Basically, ramping up iodine intake suppresses thyroid output, at least

temporarily, usually lasting only a few days but longer if the iodine

intake continues to increase. At one time they used this effect to

prepare people for thyroid surgery, making them quite hypoT but only for

a short period. You don't see it at all if you are taking replacement

thyroid hormones.

Chuck