RE: Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

[Guest guest]

It can be so confusing sometimes. Has anyone actually seen statistics on which of the CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2 doctors (ones that do not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one supports Copaxone and the other says Avonex has had the best results. I went off of Avonex and started LDN in March. I'd like to try Copaxone since it's more compatible with LDN but am curious as to it's effect vs. Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what works for one won't work for the other. It would be nice if there were more clear cut guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my progression completely. However, I certaily would not want my experience to discourage anyone! Mentally, I've improved tremendously. I am, from what the doctors (the ones that support LDN) say, maybe the only one that they've ever heard of that LDN has not kept people from getting worse so I am certanly a minority. Or, maybe we aren't hearing from some of the ones that are progressing?? Not sure. But, it sounds like LDN has the best track record. Anyone who has actually seen comparison result of the CRABS - if you could share those with me, I'd be greatful.

From: [mailto:@...] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:17 PMlow dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the last few months and am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying that LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I think it's great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it excites me so much but I don't think that you could generalise and say that it stops progression totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you problems??? /the only problems if you could call them problems that i've had with copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which heal fast. I use aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500 From: "Marie Deady" <Mardea@...>Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn.. Yes you can but why would you want to. Copaxone only slows theprogression of the disease and LDN stops the progression of the disease. doyou feel that Copaxone is doing something for you? Copaxone gave meproblems so I stopped after 4 months on it. Marie

My Multiple Sclerosis Page

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[Guest guest]

I am surprised at all the people who say

copaxone is the most effective.

All studies and everything I’ve been told is that Beta is the strongest

and most effective then rebif then avonex and copaxone is the weakest of them

all. In fact, copaxone is

typically given to people with benign MS.

Meaning people who have little to no symptoms, have

had one attack and never have another. Beta has shown to burn out the MS after

10 years of use according to some studies. I don’t have documentation

of this but was told this at a seminar.

The seminar was no sponsored by the makers of beta by the way. It was given by a hospital some years

ago in Philly. U

of Penn.

-----Original Message-----

From: CK Connie King (1452)

[mailto:connie.king@...]

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004

6:41 AM

;

low dose naltrexone

Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone]

Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

It can be so confusing

sometimes. Has anyone actually seen statistics on which of the

CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2 doctors (ones that do

not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one supports Copaxone and the other says

Avonex has had the best results. I went off of Avonex

and started LDN in March. I'd like to try Copaxone since it's

more compatible with LDN but am curious as to it's effect vs.

Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what works for one

won't work for the other. It would be nice if there were more clear

cut guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my progression

completely. However,

I certaily would not want my experience to discourage anyone!

Mentally, I've improved tremendously. I am, from what the doctors (the

ones that support LDN) say, maybe the only one that they've ever

heard of that LDN has not kept people from getting worse so I am certanly a

minority. Or, maybe we aren't hearing from some of the ones that

are progressing?? Not sure. But, it sounds like LDN has

the best track record. Anyone who has actually seen

comparison result of the CRABS - if you could share those with me, I'd

be greatful.

From:

[mailto:@...]

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004

6:17 PM

To:

low dose naltrexone

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re:

question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am

researching LDN alot the last few months and am considering starting it in the

near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's

before starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying that

LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I think it's

great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it excites me so much

but I don't think that you could generalise and say that it stops progression

totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very

anti-drugs usually as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but

copaxone does seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is

more natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack

instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you problems???

/the only problems if you could call them problems that i've had with copaxone

is slight bruising and lumps after shots which heal fast. I use aloe vera gel

chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500

From: " Marie Deady " <Mardea@...>

Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Yes you can but why would you want to.

Copaxone only slows the

progression of the disease and LDN stops the

progression of the disease. do

you feel that Copaxone is doing something for

you? Copaxone gave me

problems so I stopped after 4 months on it.

Marie

My

Multiple Sclerosis Page

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Jooley's Joint

MS Friends

Wosib Causes Garden

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instantly... " Ping " your friends today! Download Messenger Now

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To visit your group on the

web, go to:

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[Guest guest]

OPINIONS ARE LIKE A- - HOLES.... EVERYBODY HAS ONE AND THEY ALL STINK !!!!!

|---------+---------------------------->

| | " |

| | son " |

| | <mommyv3comcast (DOT) |

| | net> |

| | |

| | 01/09/2004 07:50 |

| | AM |

| | |

|---------+---------------------------->

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-----------------------------------------------|

|

|

| " 'CK Connie King \(1452\)' " <connie.king@...>,

" '' " <@...>, |

| <low dose naltrexone >

|

| cc:

|

| Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and

ldn.. |

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-----------------------------------------------|

I am surprised at all the people who say copaxone is the most effective.

All studies and everything I've been told is that Beta is the strongest and

most effective then rebif then avonex and copaxone is the weakest of them

all. In fact, copaxone is typically given to people with benign MS.

Meaning people who have little to no symptoms, have had one attack and

never have another. Beta has shown to burn out the MS after 10 years of

use according to some studies. I don't have documentation of this but was

told this at a seminar. The seminar was no sponsored by the makers of beta

by the way. It was given by a hospital some years ago in Philly. U of

Penn.

-----Original Message-----

From: CK Connie King (1452) [mailto:connie.king@...]

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:41 AM

; low dose naltrexone

Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and

ldn..

It can be so confusing sometimes. Has anyone actually seen

statistics on which of the CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2

doctors (ones that do not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one

supports Copaxone and the other says Avonex has had the best results.

I went off of Avonex and started LDN in March. I'd like to try

Copaxone since it's more compatible with LDN but am curious as to

it's effect vs. Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what

works for one won't work for the other. It would be nice if there

were more clear cut guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my

progression completely. However, I certaily would not want my

experience to discourage anyone! Mentally, I've improved

tremendously. I am, from what the doctors (the ones that support

LDN) say, maybe the only one that they've ever heard of that LDN has

not kept people from getting worse so I am certanly a minority. Or,

maybe we aren't hearing from some of the ones that are progressing??

Not sure. But, it sounds like LDN has the best track record.

Anyone who has actually seen comparison result of the CRABS - if you

could share those with me, I'd be greatful.

From: [mailto:@...]

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:17 PM

low dose naltrexone

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the

last few months and am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before

starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying

that LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I

think it's great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it

excites me so much but I don't think that you could generalise and

say that it stops progression totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually

as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does

seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more

natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack

instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you

problems??? /the only problems if you could call them problems that

i've had with copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which

heal fast. I use aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal

cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500

From: " Marie Deady " <Mardea@...>

Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Yes you can but why would you want to.

Copaxone only slows the

progression of the disease and LDN stops the

progression of the disease. do

you feel that Copaxone is doing something for

you? Copaxone gave me

problems so I stopped after 4 months on it.

Marie

(Embedded image moved to file: pic28476.gif) My Multiple Sclerosis

Page

Proud member of:

Jooley's Joint

MS Friends

Wosib Causes Garden

Phenomenal Women of the Web

Messenger - Communicate instantly... " Ping " your friends today!

Download Messenger Now

[Guest guest]

Not according to most recent studies. Far from it! The protocol adopted by the British NHS was published in www.druginfozone.nhs.uk and copaxone figures heavily. 2 new drugs may well beat them all, in Antegren and 4 aminopyridine.

the Interferons work well if given in the right manner at the right time, to patients who have not developed antibodies to the drug. (This is a common problem also reported in the druginfozone archives last december I believe) NONE of them work well enough in the majority..some work for some, none for us all! We keep hoping :-)

You are of course correct, it is hard to get independent assessment of them all, without some "vested interest"

Try the NEJM, on of the US's best medical journals in existence. I'll try to get you all an overview. remember too that the TYPE of MS is very important. Glatiramer (Copaxone) is supposed to be better in RRMS, and in my patient list I see more results with this than any other. Avonex appears to be more "gentle" than Betaferon, which suits some people, and Betaseron more aggressive, so might be better in angry progression

The patients themselves probably know best, and there's a few sites that report their feelings: I think one is called "remedyfind"

n

----- Original Message -----

From: son

'CK Connie King (1452)' ; '' ; low dose naltrexone

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 12:50 PM

Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

I am surprised at all the people who say copaxone is the most effective. All studies and everything I’ve been told is that Beta is the strongest and most effective then rebif then avonex and copaxone is the weakest of them all. In fact, copaxone is typically given to people with benign MS. Meaning people who have little to no symptoms, have had one attack and never have another. Beta has shown to burn out the MS after 10 years of use according to some studies. I don’t have documentation of this but was told this at a seminar. The seminar was no sponsored by the makers of beta by the way. It was given by a hospital some years ago in Philly. U of Penn.

-----Original Message-----From: CK Connie King (1452) [mailto:connie.king@...] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:41 AM; low dose naltrexone Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

It can be so confusing sometimes. Has anyone actually seen statistics on which of the CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2 doctors (ones that do not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one supports Copaxone and the other says Avonex has had the best results. I went off of Avonex and started LDN in March. I'd like to try Copaxone since it's more compatible with LDN but am curious as to it's effect vs. Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what works for one won't work for the other. It would be nice if there were more clear cut guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my progression completely. However, I certaily would not want my experience to discourage anyone! Mentally, I've improved tremendously. I am, from what the doctors (the ones that support LDN) say, maybe the only one that they've ever heard of that LDN has not kept people from getting worse so I am certanly a minority. Or, maybe we aren't hearing from some of the ones that are progressing?? Not sure. But, it sounds like LDN has the best track record. Anyone who has actually seen comparison result of the CRABS - if you could share those with me, I'd be greatful.

From: [mailto:@...] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:17 PMlow dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the last few months and am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying that LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I think it's great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it excites me so much but I don't think that you could generalise and say that it stops progression totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you problems??? /the only problems if you could call them problems that i've had with copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which heal fast. I use aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500 From: "Marie Deady" <Mardea@...>Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn.. Yes you can but why would you want to. Copaxone only slows theprogression of the disease and LDN stops the progression of the disease. doyou feel that Copaxone is doing something for you? Copaxone gave meproblems so I stopped after 4 months on it. Marie

My Multiple Sclerosis Page

Proud member of:

Jooley's Joint

MS Friends

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[Guest guest]

Hi

I am all for using Copaxone if it is helping you. I think that it is the best of all the crabs. And I think that it is the only one that works with LDN. the others work against LDN. I was on Copaxone for four months. I was ,almost immediately, getting shooting pains in my ears and my head. That bothered me tremendously. I also was loosing my upper body strength. My arms and my shoulders were very soar and weak. As soon as I got off of the Copaxone my upper body strength came back to normal and the shoting pains went away.

I love the way that I feel with LDN. I sleep better and feel stronger. My hands don't go numb at night anymore. My spasms have eased up quite a bit. And the best thing is that I haven't fallen in the seven months that I have been on it. I will never get my right leg back. I have had MS for almost 27 years and have been walking with a cane since 1987. But it is not dragging like before and I feel steadier. I can't ask for much more. I am able to function everyday.

Good Luck with what you plan to do.

Marie

----- Original Message -----

From:

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:17 PM

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the last few months and am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying that LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I think it's great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it excites me so much but I don't think that you could generalise and say that it stops progression totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you problems??? /the only problems if you could call them problems that i've had with copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which heal fast. I use aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500 From: "Marie Deady" <Mardea@...>Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn.. Yes you can but why would you want to. Copaxone only slows theprogression of the disease and LDN stops the progression of the disease. doyou feel that Copaxone is doing something for you? Copaxone gave meproblems so I stopped after 4 months on it. Marie

My Multiple Sclerosis Page

Proud member of:

Jooley's Joint

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[Guest guest]

I don't know if Copaxone is the most effective but I think that Copaxone is the most user friendly with less side effects.

Marie

----- Original Message -----

From: son

'CK Connie King (1452)' ; '' ; low dose naltrexone

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:50 AM

Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

I am surprised at all the people who say copaxone is the most effective. All studies and everything I’ve been told is that Beta is the strongest and most effective then rebif then avonex and copaxone is the weakest of them all. In fact, copaxone is typically given to people with benign MS. Meaning people who have little to no symptoms, have had one attack and never have another. Beta has shown to burn out the MS after 10 years of use according to some studies. I don’t have documentation of this but was told this at a seminar. The seminar was no sponsored by the makers of beta by the way. It was given by a hospital some years ago in Philly. U of Penn.

-----Original Message-----From: CK Connie King (1452) [mailto:connie.king@...] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:41 AM; low dose naltrexone Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

It can be so confusing sometimes. Has anyone actually seen statistics on which of the CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2 doctors (ones that do not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one supports Copaxone and the other says Avonex has had the best results. I went off of Avonex and started LDN in March. I'd like to try Copaxone since it's more compatible with LDN but am curious as to it's effect vs. Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what works for one won't work for the other. It would be nice if there were more clear cut guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my progression completely. However, I certaily would not want my experience to discourage anyone! Mentally, I've improved tremendously. I am, from what the doctors (the ones that support LDN) say, maybe the only one that they've ever heard of that LDN has not kept people from getting worse so I am certanly a minority. Or, maybe we aren't hearing from some of the ones that are progressing?? Not sure. But, it sounds like LDN has the best track record. Anyone who has actually seen comparison result of the CRABS - if you could share those with me, I'd be greatful.

From: [mailto:@...] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:17 PMlow dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the last few months and am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying that LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I think it's great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it excites me so much but I don't think that you could generalise and say that it stops progression totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you problems??? /the only problems if you could call them problems that i've had with copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which heal fast. I use aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500 From: "Marie Deady" <Mardea@...>Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn.. Yes you can but why would you want to. Copaxone only slows theprogression of the disease and LDN stops the progression of the disease. doyou feel that Copaxone is doing something for you? Copaxone gave meproblems so I stopped after 4 months on it. Marie

My Multiple Sclerosis Page

Proud member of:

Jooley's Joint

MS Friends

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[Guest guest]

Even if Copaxone weren't the most effective, Copaxone along with LDN?? Good alternative combo? ! I've got to decide since LDN hasn't worked as well as it should have for me that maybe Copaxone along with LDN might be a good combination vs. Avonex, which I would have to take without LDN. Also, my doctor mentioned the possibility of Antegren which I think is a milder type of chemo (milder than novantrone). I got extremely sick from novantrone and he doesn't want me to take that again. I would think that Antegren would still be compatible with LDN??

I really appreciate all of your feedback! Thanks!

From: Marie Deady [mailto:mardea@...] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:13 AM'CK Connie King (1452)'; ''; low dose naltrexone ; sonSubject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

I don't know if Copaxone is the most effective but I think that Copaxone is the most user friendly with less side effects.

Marie

----- Original Message -----

From: son

'CK Connie King (1452)' ; '' ; low dose naltrexone

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:50 AM

Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

I am surprised at all the people who say copaxone is the most effective. All studies and everything I’ve been told is that Beta is the strongest and most effective then rebif then avonex and copaxone is the weakest of them all. In fact, copaxone is typically given to people with benign MS. Meaning people who have little to no symptoms, have had one attack and never have another. Beta has shown to burn out the MS after 10 years of use according to some studies. I don’t have documentation of this but was told this at a seminar. The seminar was no sponsored by the makers of beta by the way. It was given by a hospital some years ago in Philly. U of Penn.

-----Original Message-----From: CK Connie King (1452) [mailto:connie.king@...] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:41 AM; low dose naltrexone Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

It can be so confusing sometimes. Has anyone actually seen statistics on which of the CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2 doctors (ones that do not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one supports Copaxone and the other says Avonex has had the best results. I went off of Avonex and started LDN in March. I'd like to try Copaxone since it's more compatible with LDN but am curious as to it's effect vs. Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what works for one won't work for the other. It would be nice if there were more clear cut guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my progression completely. However, I certaily would not want my experience to discourage anyone! Mentally, I've improved tremendously. I am, from what the doctors (the ones that support LDN) say, maybe the only one that they've ever heard of that LDN has not kept people from getting worse so I am certanly a minority. Or, maybe we aren't hearing from some of the ones that are progressing?? Not sure. But, it sounds like LDN has the best track record. Anyone who has actually seen comparison result of the CRABS - if you could share those with me, I'd be greatful.

From: [mailto:@...] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:17 PMlow dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the last few months and am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying that LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I think it's great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it excites me so much but I don't think that you could generalise and say that it stops progression totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you problems??? /the only problems if you could call them problems that i've had with copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which heal fast. I use aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500 From: "Marie Deady" <Mardea@...>Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn.. Yes you can but why would you want to. Copaxone only slows theprogression of the disease and LDN stops the progression of the disease. doyou feel that Copaxone is doing something for you? Copaxone gave meproblems so I stopped after 4 months on it. Marie

My Multiple Sclerosis Page

Proud member of:

Jooley's Joint

MS Friends

Wosib Causes Garden

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[Guest guest]

I've just checked www.druginfozone.nhs.uk if you search under "multiple sclerosis" 5 artciles come up. The ones on Interferon-neutralising antibodies, and on MS protocols in treatment are excellent. There are other articles related to Omega3 oils and their benefits (?) questioned by the article. NEJM needs a full subscription for data to be freed up..will get there ASAP

hope these are useful

----- Original Message -----

From: n Quinn

'CK Connie King (1452)' ; '' ; low dose naltrexone ; son

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:26 PM

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Not according to most recent studies. Far from it! The protocol adopted by the British NHS was published in www.druginfozone.nhs.uk and copaxone figures heavily. 2 new drugs may well beat them all, in Antegren and 4 aminopyridine.

the Interferons work well if given in the right manner at the right time, to patients who have not developed antibodies to the drug. (This is a common problem also reported in the druginfozone archives last december I believe) NONE of them work well enough in the majority..some work for some, none for us all! We keep hoping :-)

You are of course correct, it is hard to get independent assessment of them all, without some "vested interest"

Try the NEJM, on of the US's best medical journals in existence. I'll try to get you all an overview. remember too that the TYPE of MS is very important. Glatiramer (Copaxone) is supposed to be better in RRMS, and in my patient list I see more results with this than any other. Avonex appears to be more "gentle" than Betaferon, which suits some people, and Betaseron more aggressive, so might be better in angry progression

The patients themselves probably know best, and there's a few sites that report their feelings: I think one is called "remedyfind"

n

----- Original Message -----

From: son

'CK Connie King (1452)' ; '' ; low dose naltrexone

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 12:50 PM

Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

I am surprised at all the people who say copaxone is the most effective. All studies and everything I’ve been told is that Beta is the strongest and most effective then rebif then avonex and copaxone is the weakest of them all. In fact, copaxone is typically given to people with benign MS. Meaning people who have little to no symptoms, have had one attack and never have another. Beta has shown to burn out the MS after 10 years of use according to some studies. I don’t have documentation of this but was told this at a seminar. The seminar was no sponsored by the makers of beta by the way. It was given by a hospital some years ago in Philly. U of Penn.

-----Original Message-----From: CK Connie King (1452) [mailto:connie.king@...] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:41 AM; low dose naltrexone Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

It can be so confusing sometimes. Has anyone actually seen statistics on which of the CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2 doctors (ones that do not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one supports Copaxone and the other says Avonex has had the best results. I went off of Avonex and started LDN in March. I'd like to try Copaxone since it's more compatible with LDN but am curious as to it's effect vs. Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what works for one won't work for the other. It would be nice if there were more clear cut guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my progression completely. However, I certaily would not want my experience to discourage anyone! Mentally, I've improved tremendously. I am, from what the doctors (the ones that support LDN) say, maybe the only one that they've ever heard of that LDN has not kept people from getting worse so I am certanly a minority. Or, maybe we aren't hearing from some of the ones that are progressing?? Not sure. But, it sounds like LDN has the best track record. Anyone who has actually seen comparison result of the CRABS - if you could share those with me, I'd be greatful.

From: [mailto:@...] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:17 PMlow dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the last few months and am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying that LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I think it's great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it excites me so much but I don't think that you could generalise and say that it stops progression totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you problems??? /the only problems if you could call them problems that i've had with copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which heal fast. I use aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500 From: "Marie Deady" <Mardea@...>Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn.. Yes you can but why would you want to. Copaxone only slows theprogression of the disease and LDN stops the progression of the disease. doyou feel that Copaxone is doing something for you? Copaxone gave meproblems so I stopped after 4 months on it. Marie

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[Guest guest]

Well that stinks so ….. is that your opinion??? J/K

couldn’t help myself ROTFL!

From:

rbutto@... [mailto:rbutto@...]

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004

7:54 AM

son

Cc: 'CK Connie King (1452)';

''; low dose naltrexone

Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone]

Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

OPINIONS ARE LIKE A- - HOLES.... EVERYBODY HAS ONE

AND THEY ALL STINK !!!!!

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son " |

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<mommyv3comcast (DOT) |

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net>

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| 01/09/2004 07:50

|

|

|

AM

|

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>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

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" 'CK Connie King \(1452\)' "

<connie.king@...>, " '' "

<@...>,

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<low dose naltrexone >

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Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and

ldn..

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>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

I am surprised at all the people who say copaxone

is the most effective.

All studies and everything I've been told is that

Beta is the strongest and

most effective then rebif then avonex and copaxone

is the weakest of them

all. In fact, copaxone is typically

given to people with benign MS.

Meaning people who have little to no symptoms,

have had one attack and

never have another. Beta has shown to burn

out the MS after 10 years of

use according to some studies. I don't

have documentation of this but was

told this at a seminar. The seminar was no

sponsored by the makers of beta

by the way. It was given by a hospital some

years ago in Philly. U of

Penn.

-----Original

Message-----

From: CK Connie

King (1452) [mailto:connie.king@...]

Sent: Friday,

January 09, 2004 6:41 AM

; low dose naltrexone

Subject: RE:

[low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and

ldn..

It can be so

confusing sometimes. Has anyone actually seen

statistics on which

of the CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2

doctors (ones that

do not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one

supports Copaxone

and the other says Avonex has had the best results.

I went off of

Avonex and started LDN in March. I'd like to try

Copaxone since it's

more compatible with LDN but am curious as to

it's effect vs.

Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what

works for one won't

work for the other. It would be nice if there

were more clear cut

guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my

progression

completely. However, I certaily would not want my

experience to

discourage anyone! Mentally, I've improved

tremendously.

I am, from what the doctors (the ones that support

LDN) say, maybe the

only one that they've ever heard of that LDN has

not kept people

from getting worse so I am certanly a minority. Or,

maybe we aren't

hearing from some of the ones that are progressing??

Not

sure. But, it sounds like LDN has the best track record.

Anyone who has

actually seen comparison result of the CRABS - if you

could share those

with me, I'd be greatful.

From:

[mailto:@...]

Sent: Thursday,

January 08, 2004 6:17 PM

low dose naltrexone

Subject:

[low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and

the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the

last few months and

am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand

totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before

starting LDN as

they contradict eachother but your statement saying

that LDN STOPS

progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I

think it's great

that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it

excites me so much

but I don't think that you could generalise and

say that it stops

progression totally.

By the way copaxone

has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually

as I'm aware of the

bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does

seem to be one of

the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more

natural and the

medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack

instead of

attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you

problems??? /the

only problems if you could call them problems that

i've had with

copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which

heal fast. I use

aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal

cream is brilliant

for the bruising.

Message: 18

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500

From: " Marie Deady " <Mardea@...>

Subject: Re:

question about copaxone and ldn..

Yes you

can but why would you want to.

Copaxone only slows

the

progression of the

disease and LDN stops the

progression of the

disease. do

you feel that

Copaxone is doing something for

you? Copaxone

gave me

problems so I

stopped after 4 months on it.

Marie

(Embedded image

moved to file: pic28476.gif) My Multiple Sclerosis

Page

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the Web

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Now

[Guest guest]

Here is a site which will discuss one study’s

results on all Crab’s http://www.multiplesclerosis.com/diseasemodifiers_abc.htm

Also here is something from Health Canada.. a

warning re: Beta-interferon therapy and liver failure

Health Canada warns of liver complications from beta

interferon use for MS

December 18, 2003

TORONTO (CP) - Health Canada is warning health-care

professionals of the risks of using beta-interferon therapy for the treatment

of multiple sclerosis.

Serious liver injury such as hepatitis has been linked to beta-interferon

therapy, including three cases of liver failure that required liver

transplantation, the department said in a release.

Serious liver injury is considered rare, with cases mostly occurring in the

early months of therapy but also in patients on therapy beyond one year, it

noted.

The department reminded treating physicians they should perform periodic liver

function tests, particularly in the early months of therapy, and patients

receiving beta-interferon products should be aware of the signs and symptoms of

liver injury.

Those symptoms include yellowing of the skin or eyes (jaundice), nausea and

vomiting, easy bruising of the skin, diffuse itching and abdominal pain.

Beta-interferon is one several treatments some people with multiple sclerosis

take to try to reduce the frequency and severity of MS attacks.

The beta-interferon treatments are marketed under the names Avonex, made by

Biogen Idec Canada;

Betaseron, made by Berlex Canada

and Rebif, made by Serono Canada.

A spokeswoman for the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada said specialists and

the patients they treat have likely been aware of these risks.

``Yes, it certainly is known. But whether or not a GP (general practitioner)

would have that top of mind, that's something I would not be able to answer,''

Deanna Groetzinger said.

``It's a simple thing to monitor, but you have to do it.''

Health Canada

said MS patients receiving beta-interferon therapy who experience any of the

above symptoms should contact their doctors immediately.

INDEX: HEALTH SOCIAL

© Copyright 2003 The Canadian Press

Here is a link to news on Copaxone: http://www.doctorinfoline.com/News/ArchiveNewsDetail.asp?Id=2128 & LMonth=10 & LYear=2001

The first site only gives you conclusions on Betaseron

from what I can see it seems to be biased but that’s just me. From all I

have read on Copaxone it does seem to hold more interest for me. It also holds

interest for me because it is not an interferon… however I believe in

whatever floats your boat, here the boat floats with LDN and some do secondary

treatments using a CRAB or Novantrone. Some consider LDN their secondary. And

some are completely against using any of these with LDN… It’s

everyone’s individual decision after all just do you research yourself

don’t depend on what so and so tells you look at all the facts and choose

for yourself… Take charge of your MS or cancer or fibro or whatever it is

you all have.

If there is one thing I don’t do now it’s

follow doctors blindly. I have been treated very badly my medical professionals

so I lack a certain trust with them now. I think a lot of members here feel

that way, and having been through what I have been through I understand it.

However not everyone has been through it so it’s hard to understand the

aversion to mainstream treatments some people have. I don’t auto judge I

research for myself… Many doctors have stocks in pharmaceutical companies

I am sure so would you be surprised that they push specific treatments?? (Why

Avonex instead of the others? Avonex is the lower of the two beta interferon

from what I understand so that seems odd to me… may be they feel it is

safer?? I’d ask why that one get their back up info they base it on

;o) )

And as far as doing a study on LDN is concerned I think it’s

very important one gets done for the betterment of more people! There are too

many out there hurting and dying and maybe this can help? I don’t

personally know whether it will or won’t but I would love a study so

people like my friend who died over a year ago from stomach cancer may get

help from it if it does help people like him!

Good luck everyone with whatever you’re using for

whatever illnesses you have!

*hugs* &

G_d Bless

Rainbolt

[Guest guest]

rbutto,

Free Speech is allowed in our society and hence opinions are allowed too !

I think without free speech and sharing our opinions it would be alot harder to learn more about our illnesses.

If everyone's opinion stinks maybe you should leave here as most of us like voicing and sharing our opinions and it's through this we learn more!

rbutto@... wrote:

OPINIONS ARE LIKE A- - HOLES.... EVERYBODY HAS ONE AND THEY ALL STINK !!!!!

My Multiple Sclerosis Page

Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

[Guest guest]

I don't remember when you started taking LDN but, how long have you been on it?

Noland

----- Original Message -----

From: CK Connie King (1452)

; low dose naltrexone

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:40 AM

Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

It can be so confusing sometimes. Has anyone actually seen statistics on which of the CRAB's is most effective? I've seen 2 doctors (ones that do not support LDN) this past two weeks, and one supports Copaxone and the other says Avonex has had the best results. I went off of Avonex and started LDN in March. I'd like to try Copaxone since it's more compatible with LDN but am curious as to it's effect vs. Avonex. Maybe everyone is just different and what works for one won't work for the other. It would be nice if there were more clear cut guidelines. But, LDN did NOT stop my progression completely. However, I certaily would not want my experience to discourage anyone! Mentally, I've improved tremendously. I am, from what the doctors (the ones that support LDN) say, maybe the only one that they've ever heard of that LDN has not kept people from getting worse so I am certanly a minority. Or, maybe we aren't hearing from some of the ones that are progressing?? Not sure. But, it sounds like LDN has the best track record. Anyone who has actually seen comparison result of the CRABS - if you could share those with me, I'd be greatful.

From: [mailto:@...] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 6:17 PMlow dose naltrexone Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: question about copaxone and ldn..

Hi Marie,

I'm on copaxone and the Best Bet Diet and am researching LDN alot the last few months and am considering starting it in the near future.

I understand totally that it's best to quit the CRAB's before starting LDN as they contradict eachother but your statement saying that LDN STOPS progresion seems a bit far fetched to me. Believe me I think it's great that so many people are doing so well on LDN and it excites me so much but I don't think that you could generalise and say that it stops progression totally.

By the way copaxone has done me no harm. I am very anti-drugs usually as I'm aware of the bad side affects of most drugs but copaxone does seem to be one of the better ones of the CRAB's in that it is more natural and the medicine in it acts as a decoy for the MS to attack instead of attacking our myelin. In what way did copaxone give you problems??? /the only problems if you could call them problems that i've had with copaxone is slight bruising and lumps after shots which heal fast. I use aloe vera gel chilled for lumps and Arnica Herbal cream is brilliant for the bruising.

Message: 18 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:51:32 -0500 From: "Marie Deady" <Mardea@...>Subject: Re: question about copaxone and ldn.. Yes you can but why would you want to. Copaxone only slows theprogression of the disease and LDN stops the progression of the disease. doyou feel that Copaxone is doing something for you? Copaxone gave meproblems so I stopped after 4 months on it. Marie

My Multiple Sclerosis Page

Proud member of:

Jooley's Joint

MS Friends

Wosib Causes Garden

Phenomenal Women of the Web

Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now