Re: Iodine triggers Hashimoto's

[Guest guest]

ummm, they will get the results they are seeking if they are not using

iodine/iodide and the dose is too low. I would question the methodology.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> this is myth. this does not happen to ppl who take 50--100mg

> iodine/iodide, which is recommended for hashis. iodine is the cure, not

> the cause.

Then it is a rather well documented myth:

Rink, T., Schroth, H.J., Holle, L.H. and Garth, H. (1999). Effect of

Iodine and Thyroid Hormones in the Induction and Therapy of Hashimoto’s

Thyroiditis. Nuklearmedizin. 1999.; 38(5):144-9. in PubMed online.

" Iodine: an environmental trigger of thyroiditis, " Rose N.R. Bonita R.;

Burek C.L., Autoimmunity Reviews, Volume 1, Number 1, February 2002 ,

pp. 97-103(7).

Summary:

• Chronic lymphocytic thyroiditis (CLT) is a multifactorial autoimmune

disease with genetic and environmental factors contributing to its

development.

• The best-defined environmental factor is dietary iodine.

• Poorly-iodinated thyroglobulin is not well recognized by peripheral

blood lymphocytes (PBL) from patients with CLT.

• Iodination of thyroglobulin promotes recognition and proliferation by

patients’ PBL.

Canada's federal health agency issued a warning in 2003 for people with

Hashimoto's to stay away from kelp, because you might get as much as 4

mg per day by following the directions:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/2003/2003_27_e.html

More:

Effect of Iodine Restriction on Thyroid Function in Patients With

Primary Hypothyroidism. Kanji Kasagi, Masahiro Iwata, Takashi Misaki,

Junji Konishi Thyroid 13(6):561-567, 2003.

Control of efficiency and results, and adverse effects of excess iodine

administration on thyroid function. Koutras A. , Ann Endocrinol (Paris)

57: 463-469, 1996.

Chronic autoimmune thyroiditis. Dayan CM, s GH., N Engl J Med 335:

99-107, 1996.

Shilo, S, Hirsch, HJ, " Iodine-induced hyperthyroidism in a patient with

a normal thyroid gland, Postgrad Med J. 62:661–2 (1986)

Hartman, AA. Hyperthyroidism during administration of kelp tablets.

Ned Tijdschr Geneesk 134:1373 (1990).

de Smet, PA, Stricker, BH, Wilderink, F, Wiersinga, WM, " Hyperthyroidism

during treatment with kelp tablets, " Ned Tijdschr Geneesk 134:1373 (1990).

Eliason, BC, " Transient hyperthyroidism in a patient taking dietary

supplements containing kelp, " J Am Board Fam Pract 11:478–80 (1998)

Henzen C, Buess M, Brander L., " Iodine-induced hyperthyroidism

(iodine-induced Basedow’s disease): a current disease picture, " Schweiz

Med Wochenschr 129:658–64 (1999)

Ishizuki Y, Yamauchi K, Miura Y, " Transient thyrotoxicosis induced by

Japanese kombu, " Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi 65:91–8 (1989).

" Iodine-Induced Thyrotoxicosis After Ingestion of Kelp-Containing Tea, "

Karsten Mussig, Claus Thamer, Roland Bares, Hans- Lipp, Hans-Ulrich

Haring, Baptist Gallwitz, J. Gen. Internal Med. 416, 1525 (2006).

Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

You wrote:

> ... I would question the methodology.

That is what the peer review is for. They have a panel of experts who

have spent years researching in the field in question and years of

designing or rejecting experimental methodology. For the papers I cited,

such a panel determined that the conclusions given were justified by the

standards of scientific rigor.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

One of the strengths of the peer review process is that professionals in

the field who actually have the ability to do so are encouraged to

question the methodology. The chances that you or I with our lack of

proper education would find a problem that the experts would miss

becomes vanishingly small IMHO.

..

..

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine%20triggers%20Hashimoto%27s\

>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:23 pm (PST)

>

>

> ummm, they will get the results they are seeking if they are not using

> iodine/iodide and the dose is too low. I would question the methodology.

> Gracia

>

> Gracia,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > this is myth. this does not happen to ppl who take 50--100mg

> > iodine/iodide, which is recommended for hashis. iodine is the cure, not

> > the cause.

>

> Then it is a rather well documented myth:

>

> Rink, T., Schroth, H.J., Holle, L.H. and Garth, H. (1999). Effect of

> Iodine and Thyroid Hormones in the Induction and Therapy of Hashimoto’s

> Thyroiditis. Nuklearmedizin. 1999.; 38(5):144-9. in PubMed online.

>

> " Iodine: an environmental trigger of thyroiditis,

> " Rose N.R. Bonita R.;

> Burek C.L., Autoimmunity Reviews, Volume 1, Number 1, February 2002 ,

> pp. 97-103(7).

>

> Summary:

>

> • Chronic lymphocytic thyroiditis (CLT) is a multifactorial autoimmune

> disease with genetic and environmental factors contributing to its

> development.

> • The best-defined environmental factor is dietary iodine.

> • Poorly-iodinated thyroglobulin is not well recognized by peripheral

> blood lymphocytes (PBL) from patients with CLT.

> • Iodination of thyroglobulin promotes recognition and proliferation by

> patients’ PBL.

>

> Canada's federal health agency issued a warning in 2003 for people with

> Hashimoto's to stay away from kelp, because you might get as much as 4

> mg per day by following the directions:

>

> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/2003/2003_27_e.html

> <http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/2003/2003_27_e.html>

>

> More:

>

> Effect of Iodine Restriction on Thyroid Function in Patients With

> Primary Hypothyroidism. Kanji Kasagi, Masahiro Iwata, Takashi Misaki,

> Junji Konishi Thyroid 13(6):561-567, 2003.

>

> Control of efficiency and results, and adverse effects of excess iodine

> administration on thyroid function. Koutras A. , Ann Endocrinol (Paris)

> 57: 463-469, 1996.

>

> Chronic autoimmune thyroiditis. Dayan CM, s GH., N Engl J Med 335:

> 99-107, 1996.

>

> Shilo, S, Hirsch, HJ, " Iodine-induced hyperthyroidism in a patient with

> a normal thyroid gland, Postgrad Med J. 62:661–2 (1986)

>

> Hartman, AA. Hyperthyroidism during administration of kelp tablets.

> Ned Tijdschr Geneesk 134:1373 (1990).

>

> de Smet, PA, Stricker, BH, Wilderink, F, Wiersinga, WM, " Hyperthyroidism

> during treatment with kelp tablets, " Ned Tijdschr Geneesk 134:1373 (1990).

>

> Eliason, BC, " Transient hyperthyroidism in a patient taking dietary

> supplements containing kelp, " J Am Board Fam Pract 11:478–80 (1998)

>

> Henzen C, Buess M, Brander L., " Iodine-induced hyperthyroidism

> (iodine-induced Basedow’s disease): a current disease picture, " Schweiz

> Med Wochenschr 129:658–64 (1999)

>

> Ishizuki Y, Yamauchi K, Miura Y, " Transient thyrotoxicosis induced by

> Japanese kombu, " Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi 65:91–8 (1989).

>

> " Iodine-Induced Thyrotoxicosis After Ingestion of Kelp-Containing Tea, "

> Karsten Mussig, Claus Thamer, Roland Bares, Hans- Lipp, Hans-Ulrich

> Haring, Baptist Gallwitz, J. Gen. Internal Med. 416, 1525 (2006).

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> One of the strengths of the peer review process is that professionals in

> the field who actually have the ability to do so are encouraged to

> question the methodology. The chances that you or I with our lack of

> proper education would find a problem that the experts would miss

> becomes vanishingly small IMHO.

>

>

And yet, new paradigms don't often take root until the death of the old

guards who have a personal interests in not being wrong during their

life time. Peer reviewed journals are reviews by " peers " that have

already invested their egos in a certain paradigm and they tend to

exclude papers that don't fit their current models.

Saturated fat, good or bad? Americans have cut down on fat and heart

disease has increased. Try getting a paper published on diet that

doesn't take a hard line mainstream view that saturated fats are a

primary cause of heart disease and must be minimized. Or the following

issues, polyunsaturated don't fats cause thyroid resistance(it's not

real), TSH is diagnostic of hyper/hypo, syndrome X is something new, not

thyroid resistance, the RDA is all you need, trans-fats are a healthy

choice (ok it's taken decades and 10s of 1000s of cardio deaths, but

some are backing off this dogma), statins reduce mortality, there was a

big bang, etc.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> One of the strengths of the peer review process is that professionals in

> the field who actually have the ability to do so are encouraged to

> question the methodology. The chances that you or I with our lack of

> proper education would find a problem that the experts would miss

> becomes vanishingly small IMHO.

>

>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Kuhn repeatedly disavowed the extreme postmodern interpretations

of his model, admitting that he had to " cherry pick " the data to make

his original thesis in 1962. A few years before he died in the 90s, he

told Scientific American, " I've often said I'm much fonder of my critics

than my fans. "

Although Kuhn's _Structure_ was a very hot topic in the 70s and 80s,

most scientists today are much more swayed by the criticism of

postmodern attacks on the scientific method implied in Sokal's hoax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

Chuck

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions>

>

[Guest guest]

how can that be? using 3mg of iodine is different from using 50mg

iodine/iodide with ATP cofactors. there is a study going on right now at

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org and Brownstein is looking for men who have

prostate cancer to see how iodine affects it.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

> ... I would question the methodology.

That is what the peer review is for. They have a panel of experts who

have spent years researching in the field in question and years of

designing or rejecting experimental methodology. For the papers I cited,

such a panel determined that the conclusions given were justified by the

standards of scientific rigor.

Chuck

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1805 - Release Date: 11/22/2008

10:34 AM

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

I went to the site and could not find any legitimate research. I did

find a web page called " The Iodine Investigation Project, " in which the

folks at Optimox offer a free loading test to women with breast cancer

in exchange for them buying Iodoral and reporting back when they are cured.

If you think that or Brownstein's prostate survey is remotely close to

meeting the rigorous standards of peer reviewed research, then you have

no right questioning the methodology of studies that have passed reviews

both in getting funding awarded and in getting the results published.

Chuck

You wrote:

>

> how can that be? using 3mg of iodine is different from using 50mg

> iodine/iodide with ATP cofactors. there is a study going on right now at

> http://www.breastcancerchoices.org <http://www.breastcancerchoices.org>

> and Brownstein is looking for men who have prostate cancer to see how

> iodine affects it.

[Guest guest]

Good point. However, I find the big bang very well supported and the

counter ideas not convincing. Of course, the latest views of the BB

aren't the same as the original one [same with evolution]. I do have a

bit of trouble philosophically in wrapping my head around the usual

explanation of inflation, although I see the need in many models.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine%20triggers%20Hashim\

oto%27s>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

>

> Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:22 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> wrote:

> > One of the strengths of the peer review process is that

> professionals in

> > the field who actually have the ability to do so are encouraged to

> > question the methodology. The chances that you or I with our lack of

> > proper education would find a problem that the experts would miss

> > becomes vanishingly small IMHO.

> >

> >

>

> And yet, new paradigms don't often take root until the death of the old

> guards who have a personal interests in not being wrong during their

> life time. Peer reviewed journals are reviews by " peers " that have

> already invested their egos in a certain paradigm and they tend to

> exclude papers that don't fit their current models.

>

> Saturated fat, good or bad? Americans have cut down on fat and heart

> disease has increased. Try getting a paper published on diet that

> doesn't take a hard line mainstream view that saturated fats are a

> primary cause of heart disease and must be minimized. Or the following

> issues, polyunsaturated don't fats cause thyroid resistance(it'

> s not

> real), TSH is diagnostic of hyper/hypo, syndrome X is something new, not

> thyroid resistance, the RDA is all you need, trans-fats are a healthy

> choice (ok it's taken decades and 10s of 1000s of cardio deaths, but

> some are backing off this dogma), statins reduce mortality, there was a

> big bang, etc.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

[Guest guest]

That's IMHO a good article. It's probably of more interest to those who

are not familiar with the concepts involved. I do not find any

unfamiliar concepts in it, but that doesn't change the fact that I would

be very unlikely to be able to recognize a discrepancy in the

methodology of research in which the experts had failed to do so. I

simply do not have the education and experience to do so.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine%20triggers%20Hashim\

oto%27s>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

>

> Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:23 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> wrote:

> > One of the strengths of the peer review process is that

> professionals in

> > the field who actually have the ability to do so are encouraged to

> > question the methodology. The chances that you or I with our lack of

> > proper education would find a problem that the experts would miss

> > becomes vanishingly small IMHO.

> >

> >

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions>

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

[Guest guest]

The Sokal hoax doesn't apply to the point that science advances in a

method that Kuhn addressed with the current share holders putting the

brakes on change using BS style support of the present system(s).

Science WAS highly supportive of an earth centered universe ... the list

is large and no doubt in 50 years that list will be full of some of the

" truths " that are promoted today with scientific vigor and contempt for

any differing voices.

Arp for example has published some very valuable material on how new and

old galaxies with different red light shifts are interacting

gravitationally when their respective red light shifts would place them

too far apart/different speeds. The assumed dogma that red light shift

defines distance appears (pun intended) to be quite incorrect. Not

liking the results of his observations, he was later denied telescope

time by those with an interested in maintaining the present " truths " .

Arp published the catalog of " Peculiar Galaxies " . His photos and

measurements kick out one of the legs on which the big bang, and most of

present cosmology, rest.

Kuhn is a good reference here regardless of any ostensible retroactive

misgivings. The only use for Sokal is as a tool to discount those who

don't toe the line of current " truths " .

But, we are straying far from " Iodine cures most everything " and/or " it

is most dangerous in any curable amounts " .

Steve

Chuck B wrote:

> Steve,

>

> Kuhn repeatedly disavowed the extreme postmodern interpretations

> of his model, admitting that he had to " cherry pick " the data to make

> his original thesis in 1962. A few years before he died in the 90s, he

> told Scientific American, " I've often said I'm much fonder of my critics

> than my fans. "

>

> Although Kuhn's _Structure_ was a very hot topic in the 70s and 80s,

> most scientists today are much more swayed by the criticism of

> postmodern attacks on the scientific method implied in Sokal's hoax.

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

>

> Chuck

>

>

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions

>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Steve,

You wrote:

>

> ...Arp published the catalog of " Peculiar Galaxies " . His photos and

> measurements kick out one of the legs on which the big bang, and most of

> present cosmology, rest....

Halton Arp's 1966 catalog showed pictures of 338 oddly shaped galaxies,

five of which happen to be in front of high red shift quasars. He

claimed the quasars came out of the galaxies, and that their high red

shifts are due to some unknown optical effect. His improper use of

statistics was recognized in ApJ less than a year after his 1966 paper

in Science, but the controversy continued for about 20 years. During

this time evidence accumulated that all of his examples were cases of

accidental alignment.

The reduction in his observing hours in 1981 happened because he

persisted in chasing peculiar combinations of galaxies with quasars. His

own institutional pre-review told him the same thing as the user group

at the telescope, that his proposals were " repetitive, lacking in focus

and specific goals. " He was warned of this in several reviews, before

they started reducing his time. His choice to keep proposing the same

old thing, that no one thought was productive, let alone relevant, is

what did him in. He then chose to move to Europe.

Since then, the astronomical community has mostly considered this a

closed issue. Arp is generally considered a crackpot, even more than the

iodine docs.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

iodine docs are highly esteemed in the circles I frequent.

gracia.

Since then, the astronomical community has mostly considered this a

closed issue. Arp is generally considered a crackpot, even more than the

iodine docs.

Chuck

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1827 - Release Date: 12/3/2008

5:41 PM

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> iodine docs are highly esteemed in the circles I frequent.

No doubt.

Arp is highly regarded in his circle. Hardly any of them are

professional astronomers, though.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I admire brilliant ppl who can recognize other brilliant ppl.

Gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> iodine docs are highly esteemed in the circles I frequent.

No doubt.

Arp is highly regarded in his circle. Hardly any of them are

professional astronomers, though.

Chuck

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008

2:59 PM

[Guest guest]

Brilliant people can also be brilliantly wrong. Especially so outside

of their fields of expertise.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Iodine%20triggers%20Hashimoto%27s\

>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Thu Dec 4, 2008 7:28 pm (PST)

>

>

> I admire brilliant ppl who can recognize other brilliant ppl.

> Gracia

>

> Gracia,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > iodine docs are highly esteemed in the circles I frequent.

>

> No doubt.

>

> Arp is highly regarded in his circle. Hardly any of them are

> professional astronomers, though.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck, you make my point. Especially about the part of attacking the

messenger, not the message.

Steve

Chuck B wrote:

> Steve,

>

> You wrote:

>> ...Arp published the catalog of " Peculiar Galaxies " . His photos and

>> measurements kick out one of the legs on which the big bang, and most of

>> present cosmology, rest....

>

> Halton Arp's 1966 catalog showed pictures of 338 oddly shaped galaxies,

> five of which happen to be in front of high red shift quasars. He

> claimed the quasars came out of the galaxies, and that their high red

> shifts are due to some unknown optical effect. His improper use of

> statistics was recognized in ApJ less than a year after his 1966 paper

> in Science, but the controversy continued for about 20 years. During

> this time evidence accumulated that all of his examples were cases of

> accidental alignment.

>

> The reduction in his observing hours in 1981 happened because he

> persisted in chasing peculiar combinations of galaxies with quasars. His

> own institutional pre-review told him the same thing as the user group

> at the telescope, that his proposals were " repetitive, lacking in focus

> and specific goals. " He was warned of this in several reviews, before

> they started reducing his time. His choice to keep proposing the same

> old thing, that no one thought was productive, let alone relevant, is

> what did him in. He then chose to move to Europe.

>

> Since then, the astronomical community has mostly considered this a

> closed issue. Arp is generally considered a crackpot, even more than the

> iodine docs.

>

> Chuck

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford