Re: Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

[Guest guest]

Do you think a binder would cause muscle aches, cramps, maliaise and bloat?

If so I can talk to my doctor...

Sue

On 8/23/08 11:10 PM, " Neil " <neilneil@...> wrote:

> Hi Sue,

>

> Wondering if you have tried any other brand of dissected thyroid like

> Thyroid-S, Westhyroid, etc. Could it be the binder within Armour that

> you are having a reaction to???

>

> Neil

>

> eastodurango@... wrote:

>>

>

[Guest guest]

you have adrenal probs, need better sex hormones. hey the thyroid UK group

is wonderful and proactive. where do you live in UK?

Gracia

Up to 100mcg.

No set idea of how many times I was to go back for blood tests, which

anyway were typically within range so I was told I didn't need to see

the doctor. I probably got a blood test every couple of years when I

remembered to. I don't like to go too often in case I am thought a

nuisance and sent for psychiatry as the tests are fine.

To be frank, like a lot of people with this, my quality of life is

virtually nil.

I recently tried up to 100mcg thyroxine with my new dosage of 20mcg T3

and had three separate episode where I felt I was about to have a

heart attack if I continued.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > No idea about the adrenals. Never get mentioned over here. Just that

> > thyroxine made me feel worse than rotten....

>

> How much levothyroxine?

>

> Chuck

>

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[Guest guest]

Exactly. And I have Stage 7 adrenal fatigue and loading

up with high ratio of t3 can do so much harm as Gracia DEMANDS of everyone

on here.

It¹s ridiculous and dangerous to tell people to do this.

I take small amounts of T3 in lose dosage amounts ­ this works for me.

Sue

On 8/23/08 11:16 PM, " Neil " <neilneil@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> That's very true also, if your adrenals are toast they will not react to

> the T3 within Armour well.

>

>

> Neil

[Guest guest]

no I don't---this is undertreatment. ((( very common " disease "

Gracia

Do you think a binder would cause muscle aches, cramps, maliaise and bloat?

If so I can talk to my doctor...

Sue

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[Guest guest]

what? you are saying I need to go on synthetic T4 and T3? I really don't

want to!

I don't want to argue with you either! if you are happy with your meds then

that is good.

Gracia

Gracia,

We also discussed you taking ALL of my medications and supplements at the

doses I do.

When are you going to do that?

Then we can ³talk.²

I don¹t take Armour any longer so I no longer feel like crap ­ I can help

you too!

Sue

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[Guest guest]

most peeps would treat their adrenals. most peeps just want to get well after

a lifetime of sickness.

I understand that you have a belief system about treatment. I think the

cumulative experience can be found on http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

I am really not DEMANDING that YOU do anything!!! if you are thriving on

your treatment then good!!

Gracia

Exactly. And I have Stage 7 adrenal fatigue and loading

up with high ratio of t3 can do so much harm as Gracia DEMANDS of everyone

on here.

It¹s ridiculous and dangerous to tell people to do this.

I take small amounts of T3 in lose dosage amounts ­ this works for me.

Sue

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[Guest guest]

No it¹s NOT undertreatment.

I felt FINE until I ingested the Armour.

Gracia, enough is enough.

Do you not respect me enough to read AND understand what I write?

I feel GREAT on Levoxyl and cytomel.

I feel like CRAP on armour. ANY AMOUNT.

Thank you for REPECTING me.

sue

On 8/24/08 9:29 AM, " Gracia " <circe@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> no I don't---this is undertreatment. ((( very common " disease "

> Gracia

>

> Do you think a binder would cause muscle aches, cramps, maliaise and bloat?

> If so I can talk to my doctor...

>

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

That¹s right IF I AM HAPPY then that is good.

And I am so happy that I WANT YOU TO TAKE THEM as well .

You have been telling everyone here what to take in dangerously high amounts

of armour

And now I want you to do it right ‹safely.

Were I to be you, I would asy:

I WANT YOU TO TAKE 100 mcg of Levo and 15 mch of CYTO starting today.

You MUST do this to get well and be well.

(this is how you sound to us Gracia. It¹s wrong. It¹s dangerous. It¹s rude.

PLEASE STOP)

Sue

On 8/24/08 9:31 AM, " Gracia " <circe@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> what? you are saying I need to go on synthetic T4 and T3? I really don't

> want to!

> I don't want to argue with you either! if you are happy with your meds

> then that is good.

> Gracia

>

> Gracia,

> We also discussed you taking ALL of my medications and supplements at the

> doses I do.

> When are you going to do that?

> Then we can ³talk.²

> I don¹t take Armour any longer so I no longer feel like crap ­ I can help

> you too!

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

Yes Gracia you are DEMANDING. Not just of me but of EVRYONE.

And it¹s DANGEROUS.

It¹s RUDE.

It¹s DISRESPECTUFL.

sue

On 8/24/08 9:38 AM, " Gracia " <circe@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> most peeps would treat their adrenals. most peeps just want to get well

> after a lifetime of sickness.

> I understand that you have a belief system about treatment. I think the

> cumulative experience can be found on http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

> I am really not DEMANDING that YOU do anything!!! if you are thriving on

> your treatment then good!!

> Gracia

>

> Exactly. And I have Stage 7 adrenal fatigue and loading

> up with high ratio of t3 can do so much harm as Gracia DEMANDS of everyone

> on here.

> It¹s ridiculous and dangerous to tell people to do this.

> I take small amounts of T3 in lose dosage amounts ­ this works for me.

>

> Sue

[Guest guest]

please just hit delete when you see posts from me OK? on other lists you will

find the same advice that I am giving. or there are lists that are more in

line with what you believe. (thyroid is one).

gracia

Yes Gracia you are DEMANDING. Not just of me but of EVRYONE.

And it¹s DANGEROUS.

It¹s RUDE.

It¹s DISRESPECTUFL.

sue

On 8

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[Guest guest]

you must demand your test results--then post them here with ranges.

Gracia

I don't know what he is saying, all I get is to have blood taken then

the receptionist a week later says I don't need to see the doctor as

everything is fine. That's it.

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[Guest guest]

lmneedham wrote:

>

> I don't know what he is saying, all I get is to have blood taken then

> the receptionist a week later says I don't need to see the doctor as

> everything is fine. That's it.

I suggest you get more involved in your treatment. You have a right, not

only to a copy of your test results, but to ask your doctor to explain

them.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Ask for a copy of your labs. By law you have a right to your entire medical

chart. If they give you lip- tell them you are going to report them to the

state health department and the state medical board if they don't give you

your labs.

Nancie

-- Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

I don't know what he is saying, all I get is to have blood taken then

the receptionist a week later says I don't need to see the doctor as

everything is fine. That's it.

> >

> > Up to 100mcg.

>

> First this is a fairly low dose for a woman. In my family, all three

> hypoT women needed 200 mcg, and they are not large people. This amount

> might be adequate for a smaller male. However, you said you had

taken 50

> mcg of T3, which is equivalent to 200 mcg of T4. Do you think that is a

> fair comparison?

>

> Then, you take 100 mcg of T4 in combination with 20 mcg of T3, which is

> a total equivalence to 180 mcg. Not surprisingly, this made you hyperT.

> You seem to have suffered a " shotgun " approach to dosing. Guess too

low;

> then guess too high.

>

> The euthyroid state is in a rather narrow dosage window, so one

> effective way to use these medications is to carefully titrate the

dose.

> If you are taking T4 only, the TSH should be below about 2 or, better

> yet, you should be measuring FT3. If T3 medication is in the mix, TSH

> should be even lower. If your doctor is telling you your blood work is

> fine with a TSH higher than this, you need a new doctor, rather than a

> psychiatrist.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

An accurate statement would be SOME PEOPLE MAY feel better or Armour

Re: Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

this " conversion " thing is annoying me - ppl just feel better on

Armour.

Gracia

lmneedham wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Perhaps it is worth me asking to trial Armour next visit.

To me, that would depend on your condition. If you were on Cytomel for a

conversion problem, adding T4 might cause more problems than it fixes. I

don't recall the reason for your current prescription. Was it

conversion? Is there adrenal involvement?

Chuck

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1:16 PM

[Guest guest]

The accurate statement would be " this is what works for ME " .....(meaning for

Gracia herself).

You really have run the gamut of feeling bad on your treatment. Perhaps it

would suit you better to discuss other treatment options with your doc, such

as combined T3 and T4(Synthroid and Cytomel)..... Unfortunately you may be

in a position where you may need to take a more active part in your own

treatment and ask to try various things in order to help you feel better.

Does your doc know you have all of these problems? I often come away from

the docs visit thinking, " Damn..,. I forgot to tell him this - or that - or

another thing " and so I'm not giving him all the pieces in the puzzle by

which to treat me. Maybe a good sit down with the doc with a handwritten

list of problems and questions from you would be the place to start.

Please keep us posted.

Dusty

Re: Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

this is what works:

iodine/iodide 50--100mg

Armour ENOUGH 180--300mg

cortef 5mg 4X a day

Gracia

I'm on just T3, now up to 50mcg per day, and don't think I can feel

much worse.

Day goes by in a fog of ache and drowsiness and feeling ill.

Stomach constantly aches, intestines ache, back and legs are stiff and

ache when I move from sitting to standing and bending. Back aches when

I wake up. Feet are killing me when I go out so I can't wait to get

back home and sit down.

I feel like an 80-year-old.

Notice a change in my eyes for the first time, on some recent photos.

Thought medication was supposed to prevent/stop/reverse this.

Seems as though nothing I do will ever make a bean of difference to

feeling unutterably CRAP.

What is the point of even bothering with medication? Can't be that

much worse to experience the whole body shutting down.

And at least that has an end-to-it date.

WHO gives a shit, no one paid for professional services that for

certain. WHY is that? Where is professional honour? I look after my

customers, when I can scrape an hour to perform my work. I have the

brain to check and really check that everything is as it should be and

highly satisfactory to those paying me. What is different with

certificated services?

Even the doctor I am now personally paying is asking ME what I think I

should be medicated with. Did I want to be treated on T3 alone or did

I think I wanted Armour. HOW THE FUCK DO I KNOW. IF I KNEW I WOULD PAY

MYSELF TO TREAT ME.

Apparently I am an enigma. I guess that's shorthand for 'You ain't

ever going to get well on my watch'.

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1:16 PM

[Guest guest]

We really don't know that statement to be true Gracia. It is based on your

diagnosis (you are not a medical professional) that you have decided that

these people are ill with thyroid to begin with.

Re: Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

well the MDs are KILLING the ppl at my group home--oh maybe they are the

dummies in MD school. a Harvard medical professor wrote an interesting

book about trying to get a Dx for himself and finallly only one doc gave him

the correct Dx and treatment. what was that book called?

Gracia

You can find any number of people to tell you they're either smarter or

more educated than someone who graduated from college. But a doctor

didn't just graduate from college with a BA, she/he has a PhD. And that

PhD is in the " hard " sciences; not the simplistic humanities or

similar. In most cases it's impossible to not flunk out of medical

school unless you're fairly bright.

And it's quite possible for someone with no formal education to be

" smarter " than someone with a PhD. But it's still very likely that the

person with the hard science PhD will have TONS more knowledge than the

average person with no degree. Not to negate that there are exceptions.

Incidentally, my highest degree was high school...

>

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1:16 PM

[Guest guest]

Ha ha ha.

On 8/24/08 6:25 PM, " " <res075oh@...> wrote:

> BLASPHEMY!!! HERESY!!! LORD SAVE US ALL!!!

>

> [ggg]

>

>>

>> Posted by: " eastodurango@... "

>> eastodurango@...

>>

>

>>

>> NO they don¹t.

>> I feel like CRAP on Armour‹any amount of it.

>> It¹s pig thryoid hromone and the ratio of t4 to t3 is way too high and

>> unnatrual for most humans.

>> sue

>

>

[Guest guest]

What about the muscle cramps, malaise and bloat? If you feel great with

that, then you are stronger than I!

BarbF

In a message dated 8/24/2008 10:48:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

eastodurango@... writes:

I feel GREAT on Levoxyl and cytomel

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

[Guest guest]

That came from the Armour.

I stopped the armour and that went away.

I re-introduced armour and back they came...

It¹s almost immediate.

As far as hypo, the levo/ctyo works for me.

sue

On 8/25/08 5:57 AM, " Bbircie@... " <Bbircie@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> What about the muscle cramps, malaise and bloat? If you feel great with

> that, then you are stronger than I!

> BarbF

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/24/2008 10:48:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> eastodurango@... <mailto:eastodurango%40earthlink.net> writes:

>

> I feel GREAT on Levoxyl and cytomel

>

> **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

> deal here.

> (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

>

>

[Guest guest]

hydrocortisone

good site about adrenals:

http://www.fudgedesign.co.uk/tuk/faq.htm#q29

also look at this chart:

http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

What is HC?

>

>

> you are taking HC???? that is what you needed in the first

place. I don't know what zypan is.

> Gracia

>

> I have given up on mainstream doctors. I am now seeing a naturopath.

> She put me on JUST T3 instead of what the iodiot doctor did by putting

> me on T4 and T3 for Rt3. I am taking HC, Zypan for digestion, which

> can be a problem for hypoT people. Five days on just T3 and I can tell

> a big difference. I have more energy, my face is getting is getting

> more definition and the depression, I suppose because I am seeing

> results, is melting away.

>

> She is a naturopathic MD and she agrees with much of what I have

> brought forth to her regarding what we talk about in our groups. SO,

> I think this is the first week of a better quality of life for me. I

> am keeping my fingers crossed as I know there can be setbacks and

> reactions. I am encouraged though at this point.

>

> Venizia

>

> ---

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[Guest guest]

Hi Gracia ~

Zypan is a HCl/pepsin product by Standard Process used for digestion.

take care,

~

-----Original Message-----

you are taking HC???? that is what you needed in the first place. I

don't know what zypan is.

Gracia

[Guest guest]

Hydrocortisone aka steroids

-- Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

What is HC?

>

>

> you are taking HC???? that is what you needed in the first

place. I don't know what zypan is.

> Gracia

>

> I have given up on mainstream doctors. I am now seeing a naturopath.

> She put me on JUST T3 instead of what the iodiot doctor did by putting

> me on T4 and T3 for Rt3. I am taking HC, Zypan for digestion, which

> can be a problem for hypoT people. Five days on just T3 and I can tell

> a big difference. I have more energy, my face is getting is getting

> more definition and the depression, I suppose because I am seeing

> results, is melting away.

>

> She is a naturopathic MD and she agrees with much of what I have

> brought forth to her regarding what we talk about in our groups. SO,

> I think this is the first week of a better quality of life for me. I

> am keeping my fingers crossed as I know there can be setbacks and

> reactions. I am encouraged though at this point.

>

> Venizia

>

> ---

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[Guest guest]

which are natural to the human body, produced by adrenal glands, not to be

confused with high dose synthetic steroids used by allopathic medicine.

Gracia

Hydrocortisone aka steroids

-- Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

What is HC?

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[Guest guest]

They are still classified as Steroids. Whether you take them at low doses or

high doses- they are still members of the steroid family. That is a fact

that gracia cannot dispute- although she will try...

-- Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

What is HC?

---

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