Comments?

September 17, 2008

I need input on the issues in this conversation...

Me-

I want to change to Armour Thyroid.

Doctor

- Oooooooh! Why?

Me-

T3, T4, T2, T1, Calcitonin.

Doctor-

*Sigh*

Me-

Either that or Westhroid.

Doctor-

I don't typically switch and I don't typically use Armour. In

larger part the problem is that its desiccated pork, pig & cow

thyroid. The problem with it is that pigs and cows make a lot more

T3 than people and I may get a skewed point of view because I see the

people who don't do well on it but I end up with a lot of patients in

T3 toxicosis because they get way too much T3 and not enough T4 and

they end up hyper thyroid on Armour. I'm not a big fan of Armour.

Your level is improving certainly here. (Referring to last TSH).

Humans are designed that their body's convert T4 to T3 that's how

it works. Supplementing with T3 has been hugely controversial and

has been for decades. Some people do it some people don't. There's

no good evidence that suggest its better one way or the other,

essentially everything is tied as far as everything goes.

I wouldn't recommend switching you. Because once you get on a

good dose…the problem is that you've just not been on the right dose

of levothyroxin and your getting there and the last increase from 150

to 175mcg/day …that was a good adjustment and I would just leave it

here. You don't feel well because you haven't been normal thyroid

for months. It's not lack of T3 that's making you not feel well,

it's a lack of thyroid hormones in general that you don't feel well.

And not that I don't have patients that do well on Armour, I don't

have that many but I have a few. The problem is long term that it

tends to not be as stable, it's not as stable from batch to batch,

as to how much pig or how much cow, and you end up with lots of

adjustments in you dose.

Me-

What about another brand, like Westhroid?

Doctor-

Is there a problem with levothyroxin?

Me-

I've joined a couple thyroid support groups and the general

consensus is that natural desiccated thyroid is the way to go. I

just want to feel the best that I can feel, lose wt. and get on with

my life.

Doctor-

The problem is that you just haven't been on the right amount yet.

It's not the medication…it's the dose. Now if you prefer to take

brand-name Synthroid …I don't have a problem with that but switching

to a less stable medication is just going to complicate things

potentially. it's not a guarantee, but potentially its just going

to complicate things down the road.

All those support groups are all, quote, natural. They recommend

natural. It's my joke that if it's natural for a pig or a cow it's

not necessarily natural if you're a human being. Actually synthetic

thyroid hormone is chemically, actually closer to what we make than

what is in the desiccated thyroid as the amount of hormone can vary

from batch to batch significantly and you won't feel any better from

that than you would if you were chronically low.

Me-

These groups also say that natural being on desiccated thyroid, one

will see that cholesterol will be more under control and that

depression that goes along with thyroid problems will disappear.

Doctor-

The issue with depression and thyroid, again, is that if your thyroid

levels are normal the depression is not related to a thyroid cause.

There is something that they call T3 euphoria and then again

typically people end up a little hyperthyroid. They do feel less

depressed. The problem with that is that also tends to increase your

risk for atrial fibrillation which creates conditions where you could

have a stroke –or- it can thin your bones and you can end up with

osteoporosis.

A lot of these thyroid groups…well read what you want, but read with

a grain of salt.

If your TSH is between 1-3 and you still have depression, it's not

from hypothyroidism.

There is technically a difference between brand Synthroid and generic

levothyroxin. The brand is more stable and gives you a more stable

amount of hormone in each pill. So if you want, I'll give you brand

either levothyroxin or levoxil , knowing that it's a little more

expensive.

September 25, 2008

> > I need input on the issues in this conversation...

>

> I would suggest trying the doctor's improved dose. Get your TSH

below 2. If that still does not work, threaten to get a new doctor.

>

> Chuck

>

Hi everyone ) ... I am new to this group ot groups like these - I

have been Hypothyroid for 4 years now, and am taking 125mcg of

Levothyroxine. I started on 50mcg, last year my dose was increased to

100mcg, and the last 3 months, I have been taking 125mcg. I know that

one of the symptoms of being Hypothyroid is weight gain, but in my

case, it is weight loss, no-one else who I have spoken to with the

same type as mine suffers weight loss!! - About 3pm on a daily basis

I suddenly feel totally drained, look like a zombie [go very pale and

eyes look dark], and have no energy, although, with not finishing

work until 5pm I have yet another 2 hrs to drag myself

through ) ... I am totally fed up with being and looking so tired

all the time. I have talked to my Dr about this and he has told me

to " drink plenty of water, and continue with your Yoga " [i am an avid

fan of Yoga and love it, but hardly do any these days, due to the

tiredness]. I heard a pharmacist talking on the radio re: health

issues, and this lady with the same symptoms as mine phoned in, the

pharmacist told her to take supplements of CoenzymeQ10 + vitamin C to

increase her energy levels ........... I was wondering re: these

supplements - Has anyone else tried taking either one of them or both

together, and if so, have they worked for? ........ thanks everyone.

September 25, 2008

Sue-

I am NOT telling her to treat herself- I am giving her OPTIONS. If she

wants to know all of her options then she will ask me off list for the web

site. If she doesn't ask. That is okay too.

Some people can't find a provider that will work with them to treat their

thyroid properly, so self-treating is another option. The GOAL is to treat

to your symptoms anyway, so if you dose to your symptoms and follow up with

labs, which you can get online thru the canary club you can monitor your

progress. Some people live out in the middle of frigging nowhere and can't

get to a provider to save their life. So they self treat too.

Do you see me twisting her arm?? No you don't.

BTW, you can " overdose " on thyroid meds even if you are getting them from a

provider. If someone wants to take more than the stated dose on the bottle-

they can. No one is standing there telling them " no " .

It all comes down to taking responsibility for your OWN actions.

Finally, we give people advice all the time on this site, even you. But, it

is still up to each individual to take responsibility for themselves.

-- Re: Comments?

Sorry, Nancie, but whether or not people

treat themselves is not anyone¹s business but theirs.

Telling someone outright to TREAT THEMSELVES is

malpractice if you represent yourself as a health professional

here and you do, even though you are not their health professional.

Being adult means being responsible. For not only what

others do but how we conduct ourselves.

Just because you self-treated does not give

you carte blanche to tell anyone else to do so where

prescription drugs and someone¹s safety is concerned.

Thryoid meds at incorrect doses carry a very high risk.

This is truly my opinion and that¹s all- I don¹t want to argue about it.

Su

On 9/24/08 10:40 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote:

>

> Sue-

> People treat themselves all the time. Where do you think I found out about

> ordering Armour online? From another thyroid patient. On the other lists [

> namely stopthethyroidmadness], members will tell people off list where

they

> can get it. Ultimately it is the person's responsibility to make their own

> decision. We are ALL ADULTS here.

> I am just letting her know she has options.

> Before I found my natural medicine provider- I ordered online and self-

> treated using the guidelines form http://stopthethyroidmadness.com

>

September 25, 2008

The point is that some people can't get a provider to work with them. They

can't find anyone near them to give them a med other than synthroid or other

T 4 only med. That is when they start to self treat.

If you want to get picky- we all self treat whenever we buy an OVER THE

COUNTER medication, supplement, hormone or herb to treat something in our

bodies.

I bet you have self-treated at some point in your life or self-treated your

kids. Be honest, now.

Well,.... You can over dose on them, too!

-- Comments?

>>>

>>> I need input on the issues in this conversation...

>>>

>>> Me-

>>> I want to change to Armour Thyroid.

>>>

>>> Doctor

>>> - Oooooooh! Why?

>>>

>>> Me-

>>> T3, T4, T2, T1, Calcitonin.

>>>

>>> Doctor-

>>> *Sigh*

>>>

>>> Me-

>>> Either that or Westhroid.

>>>

>>> Doctor-

>>> I don't typically switch and I don't typically use Armour. In

>>> larger part the problem is that its desiccated pork, pig & cow

>>> thyroid. The problem with it is that pigs and cows make a lot more

>>> T3 than people and I may get a skewed point of view because I see the

>>> people who don't do well on it but I end up with a lot of patients in

>>> T3 toxicosis because they get way too much T3 and not enough T4 and

>>> they end up hyper thyroid on Armour. I'm not a big fan of Armour.

>>> Your level is improving certainly here. (Referring to last TSH).

>>> Humans are designed that their body's convert T4 to T3 that's how

>>> it works. Supplementing with T3 has been hugely controversial and

>>> has been for decades. Some people do it some people don't. There's

>>> no good evidence that suggest its better one way or the other,

>>> essentially everything is tied as far as everything goes.

>>> I wouldn't recommend switching you. Because once you get on a

>>> good dose…the problem is that you've just not been on the right dose

>>> of levothyroxin and your getting there and the last increase from 150

>>> to 175mcg/day …that was a good adjustment and I would just leave it

>>> here. You don't feel well because you haven't been normal thyroid

>>> for months. It's not lack of T3 that's making you not feel well,

>>> it's a lack of thyroid hormones in general that you don't feel well.

>>> And not that I don't have patients that do well on Armour, I don't

>>> have that many but I have a few. The problem is long term that it

>>> tends to not be as stable, it's not as stable from batch to batch,

>>> as to how much pig or how much cow, and you end up with lots of

>>> adjustments in you dose.

>>>

>>> Me-

>>> What about another brand, like Westhroid?

>>>

>>> Doctor-

>>> Is there a problem with levothyroxin?

>>>

>>> Me-

>>> I've joined a couple thyroid support groups and the general

>>> consensus is that natural desiccated thyroid is the way to go. I

>>> just want to feel the best that I can feel, lose wt. and get on with

>>> my life.

>>>

>>> Doctor-

>>> The problem is that you just haven't been on the right amount yet.

>>> It's not the medication…it's the dose. Now if you prefer to take

>>> brand-name Synthroid …I don't have a problem with that but switching

>>> to a less stable medication is just going to complicate things

>>> potentially. it's not a guarantee, but potentially its just going

>>> to complicate things down the road.

>>>

>>> All those support groups are all, quote, natural. They recommend

>>> natural. It's my joke that if it's natural for a pig or a cow it's

>>> not necessarily natural if you're a human being. Actually synthetic

>>> thyroid hormone is chemically, actually closer to what we make than

>>> what is in the desiccated thyroid as the amount of hormone can vary

>>> from batch to batch significantly and you won't feel any better from

>>> that than you would if you were chronically low.

>>>

>>> Me-

>>> These groups also say that natural being on desiccated thyroid, one

>>> will see that cholesterol will be more under control and that

>>> depression that goes along with thyroid problems will disappear.

>>>

>>> Doctor-

>>> The issue with depression and thyroid, again, is that if your thyroid

>>> levels are normal the depression is not related to a thyroid cause.

>>> There is something that they call T3 euphoria and then again

>>> typically people end up a little hyperthyroid. They do feel less

>>> depressed. The problem with that is that also tends to increase your

>>> risk for atrial fibrillation which creates conditions where you could

>>> have a stroke –or- it can thin your bones and you can end up with

>>> osteoporosis.

>>> A lot of these thyroid groups…well read what you want, but read with

>>> a grain of salt.

>>> If your TSH is between 1-3 and you still have depression, it's not

>>> from hypothyroidism.

>>>

>>> There is technically a difference between brand Synthroid and generic

>>> levothyroxin. The brand is more stable and gives you a more stable

>>> amount of hormone in each pill. So if you want, I'll give you brand

>>> either levothyroxin or levoxil , knowing that it's a little more

>>> expensive.

>>>

September 25, 2008

That is what we are advocating here. There in absolutely no harm in knowing

all your options. The rest is up to the individual.

-- Comments?

>>>>

>>>> I need input on the issues in this conversation. ..

>>>>

>>>> Me-

>>>> I want to change to Armour Thyroid.

>>>>

>>>> Doctor

>>>> - Oooooooh! Why?

>>>>

>>>> Me-

>>>> T3, T4, T2, T1, Calcitonin.

>>>>

>>>> Doctor-

>>>> *Sigh*

>>>>

>>>> Me-

>>>> Either that or Westhroid.

>>>>

>>>> Doctor-

>>>> I don't typically switch and I don't typically use Armour. In

>>>> larger part the problem is that its desiccated pork, pig & cow

>>>> thyroid. The problem with it is that pigs and cows make a lot more

>>>> T3 than people and I may get a skewed point of view because I see the

>>>> people who don't do well on it but I end up with a lot of patients in

>>>> T3 toxicosis because they get way too much T3 and not enough T4 and

>>>> they end up hyper thyroid on Armour. I'm not a big fan of Armour.

>>>> Your level is improving certainly here. (Referring to last TSH).

>>>> Humans are designed that their body's convert T4 to T3 that's how

>>>> it works. Supplementing with T3 has been hugely controversial and

>>>> has been for decades. Some people do it some people don't. There's

>>>> no good evidence that suggest its better one way or the other,

>>>> essentially everything is tied as far as everything goes.

>>>> I wouldn't recommend switching you. Because once you get on a

>>>> good dose…the problem is that you've just not been on the right dose

>>>> of levothyroxin and your getting there and the last increase from 150

>>>> to 175mcg/day …that was a good adjustment and I would just leave it

>>>> here. You don't feel well because you haven't been normal thyroid

>>>> for months. It's not lack of T3 that's making you not feel well,

>>>> it's a lack of thyroid hormones in general that you don't feel well.

>>>> And not that I don't have patients that do well on Armour, I don't

>>>> have that many but I have a few. The problem is long term that it

>>>> tends to not be as stable, it's not as stable from batch to batch,

>>>> as to how much pig or how much cow, and you end up with lots of

>>>> adjustments in you dose.

>>>>

>>>> Me-

>>>> What about another brand, like Westhroid?

>>>>

>>>> Doctor-

>>>> Is there a problem with levothyroxin?

>>>>

>>>> Me-

>>>> I've joined a couple thyroid support groups and the general

>>>> consensus is that natural desiccated thyroid is the way to go. I

>>>> just want to feel the best that I can feel, lose wt. and get on with

>>>> my life.

>>>>

>>>> Doctor-

>>>> The problem is that you just haven't been on the right amount yet.

>>>> It's not the medication…it' s the dose. Now if you prefer to take

>>>> brand-name Synthroid …I don't have a problem with that but switching

>>>> to a less stable medication is just going to complicate things

>>>> potentially. it's not a guarantee, but potentially its just going

>>>> to complicate things down the road.

>>>>

>>>> All those support groups are all, quote, natural. They recommend

>>>> natural. It's my joke that if it's natural for a pig or a cow it's

>>>> not necessarily natural if you're a human being. Actually synthetic

>>>> thyroid hormone is chemically, actually closer to what we make than

>>>> what is in the desiccated thyroid as the amount of hormone can vary

>>>> from batch to batch significantly and you won't feel any better from

>>>> that than you would if you were chronically low.

>>>>

>>>> Me-

>>>> These groups also say that natural being on desiccated thyroid, one

>>>> will see that cholesterol will be more under control and that

>>>> depression that goes along with thyroid problems will disappear.

>>>>

>>>> Doctor-

>>>> The issue with depression and thyroid, again, is that if your thyroid

>>>> levels are normal the depression is not related to a thyroid cause.

>>>> There is something that they call T3 euphoria and then again

>>>> typically people end up a little hyperthyroid. They do feel less

>>>> depressed. The problem with that is that also tends to increase your

>>>> risk for atrial fibrillation which creates conditions where you could

>>>> have a stroke –or- it can thin your bones and you can end up with

>>>> osteoporosis.

>>>> A lot of these thyroid groups…well read what you want, but read with

>>>> a grain of salt.

>>>> If your TSH is between 1-3 and you still have depression, it's not

>>>> from hypothyroidism.

>>>>

>>>> There is technically a difference between brand Synthroid and generic

>>>> levothyroxin. The brand is more stable and gives you a more stable

>>>> amount of hormone in each pill. So if you want, I'll give you brand

>>>> either levothyroxin or levoxil , knowing that it's a little more

>>>> expensive.

>>>>

September 25, 2008

Nancie, your exact words were ³...or treat yourself by orderling online from

an overseas company.²

O-M-G.

I can just see the investigation now when they find your

email in someone¹s inbox if something were to go wrong afterthey took your

advice.

Let¹s just agree to disagree on this one.

I would never suggest anyone to do or take anything only say ³this is what

I do² or ³I tried this.²

End of my story.

sue

On 9/25/08 2:05 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote:

>

> That is what we are advocating here. There in absolutely no harm in knowing

> all your options. The rest is up to the individual.

>

> -- Comments?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> I need input on the issues in this conversation. ..

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> I want to change to Armour Thyroid.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor

>>>>> >>>> - Oooooooh! Why?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> T3, T4, T2, T1, Calcitonin.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> *Sigh*

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> Either that or Westhroid.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> I don't typically switch and I don't typically use Armour. In

>>>>> >>>> larger part the problem is that its desiccated pork, pig & cow

>>>>> >>>> thyroid. The problem with it is that pigs and cows make a lot more

>>>>> >>>> T3 than people and I may get a skewed point of view because I see the

>>>>> >>>> people who don't do well on it but I end up with a lot of patients in

>>>>> >>>> T3 toxicosis because they get way too much T3 and not enough T4 and

>>>>> >>>> they end up hyper thyroid on Armour. I'm not a big fan of Armour.

>>>>> >>>> Your level is improving certainly here. (Referring to last TSH).

>>>>> >>>> Humans are designed that their body's convert T4 to T3 that's how

>>>>> >>>> it works. Supplementing with T3 has been hugely controversial and

>>>>> >>>> has been for decades. Some people do it some people don't. There's

>>>>> >>>> no good evidence that suggest its better one way or the other,

>>>>> >>>> essentially everything is tied as far as everything goes.

>>>>> >>>> I wouldn't recommend switching you. Because once you get on a

>>>>> >>>> good dose…the problem is that you've just not been on the right dose

>>>>> >>>> of levothyroxin and your getting there and the last increase from 150

>>>>> >>>> to 175mcg/day …that was a good adjustment and I would just leave it

>>>>> >>>> here. You don't feel well because you haven't been normal thyroid

>>>>> >>>> for months. It's not lack of T3 that's making you not feel well,

>>>>> >>>> it's a lack of thyroid hormones in general that you don't feel well.

>>>>> >>>> And not that I don't have patients that do well on Armour, I don't

>>>>> >>>> have that many but I have a few. The problem is long term that it

>>>>> >>>> tends to not be as stable, it's not as stable from batch to batch,

>>>>> >>>> as to how much pig or how much cow, and you end up with lots of

>>>>> >>>> adjustments in you dose.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> What about another brand, like Westhroid?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> Is there a problem with levothyroxin?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> I've joined a couple thyroid support groups and the general

>>>>> >>>> consensus is that natural desiccated thyroid is the way to go. I

>>>>> >>>> just want to feel the best that I can feel, lose wt. and get on with

>>>>> >>>> my life.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> The problem is that you just haven't been on the right amount yet.

>>>>> >>>> It's not the medication…it' s the dose. Now if you prefer to take

>>>>> >>>> brand-name Synthroid …I don't have a problem with that but switching

>>>>> >>>> to a less stable medication is just going to complicate things

>>>>> >>>> potentially. it's not a guarantee, but potentially its just going

>>>>> >>>> to complicate things down the road.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> All those support groups are all, quote, natural. They recommend

>>>>> >>>> natural. It's my joke that if it's natural for a pig or a cow it's

>>>>> >>>> not necessarily natural if you're a human being. Actually synthetic

>>>>> >>>> thyroid hormone is chemically, actually closer to what we make than

>>>>> >>>> what is in the desiccated thyroid as the amount of hormone can vary

>>>>> >>>> from batch to batch significantly and you won't feel any better from

>>>>> >>>> that than you would if you were chronically low.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> These groups also say that natural being on desiccated thyroid, one

>>>>> >>>> will see that cholesterol will be more under control and that

>>>>> >>>> depression that goes along with thyroid problems will disappear.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> The issue with depression and thyroid, again, is that if your thyroid

>>>>> >>>> levels are normal the depression is not related to a thyroid cause.

>>>>> >>>> There is something that they call T3 euphoria and then again

>>>>> >>>> typically people end up a little hyperthyroid. They do feel less

>>>>> >>>> depressed. The problem with that is that also tends to increase your

>>>>> >>>> risk for atrial fibrillation which creates conditions where you could

>>>>> >>>> have a stroke –or- it can thin your bones and you can end up with

>>>>> >>>> osteoporosis.

>>>>> >>>> A lot of these thyroid groups…well read what you want, but read with

>>>>> >>>> a grain of salt.

>>>>> >>>> If your TSH is between 1-3 and you still have depression, it's not

>>>>> >>>> from hypothyroidism.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> There is technically a difference between brand Synthroid and generic

>>>>> >>>> levothyroxin. The brand is more stable and gives you a more stable

>>>>> >>>> amount of hormone in each pill. So if you want, I'll give you brand

>>>>> >>>> either levothyroxin or levoxil , knowing that it's a little more

>>>>> >>>> expensive.

>>>>> >>>>

September 25, 2008

Boy this group has gotten hostile lately. Wow.

CW

-- Comments?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> I need input on the issues in this conversation. ..

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> I want to change to Armour Thyroid.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor

>>>>> >>>> - Oooooooh! Why?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> T3, T4, T2, T1, Calcitonin.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> *Sigh*

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> Either that or Westhroid.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> I don't typically switch and I don't typically use Armour. In

>>>>> >>>> larger part the problem is that its desiccated pork, pig & cow

>>>>> >>>> thyroid. The problem with it is that pigs and cows make a lot

more

>>>>> >>>> T3 than people and I may get a skewed point of view because I see

the

>>>>> >>>> people who don't do well on it but I end up with a lot of

patients in

>>>>> >>>> T3 toxicosis because they get way too much T3 and not enough T4

and

>>>>> >>>> they end up hyper thyroid on Armour. I'm not a big fan of Armour.

>>>>> >>>> Your level is improving certainly here. (Referring to last TSH).

>>>>> >>>> Humans are designed that their body's convert T4 to T3 that's how

>>>>> >>>> it works. Supplementing with T3 has been hugely controversial and

>>>>> >>>> has been for decades. Some people do it some people don't. There

s

>>>>> >>>> no good evidence that suggest its better one way or the other,

>>>>> >>>> essentially everything is tied as far as everything goes.

>>>>> >>>> I wouldn't recommend switching you. Because once you get on a

>>>>> >>>> good dose…the problem is that you've just not been on the right

dose

>>>>> >>>> of levothyroxin and your getting there and the last increase from

150

>>>>> >>>> to 175mcg/day …that was a good adjustment and I would just leave

it

>>>>> >>>> here. You don't feel well because you haven't been normal thyroid

>>>>> >>>> for months. It's not lack of T3 that's making you not feel well,

>>>>> >>>> it's a lack of thyroid hormones in general that you don't feel

well.

>>>>> >>>> And not that I don't have patients that do well on Armour, I don

t

>>>>> >>>> have that many but I have a few. The problem is long term that it

>>>>> >>>> tends to not be as stable, it's not as stable from batch to batch

>>>>> >>>> as to how much pig or how much cow, and you end up with lots of

>>>>> >>>> adjustments in you dose.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> What about another brand, like Westhroid?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> Is there a problem with levothyroxin?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> I've joined a couple thyroid support groups and the general

>>>>> >>>> consensus is that natural desiccated thyroid is the way to go. I

>>>>> >>>> just want to feel the best that I can feel, lose wt. and get on

with

>>>>> >>>> my life.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> The problem is that you just haven't been on the right amount yet

>>>>> >>>> It's not the medication…it' s the dose. Now if you prefer to take

>>>>> >>>> brand-name Synthroid …I don't have a problem with that but

switching

>>>>> >>>> to a less stable medication is just going to complicate things

>>>>> >>>> potentially. it's not a guarantee, but potentially its just going

>>>>> >>>> to complicate things down the road.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> All those support groups are all, quote, natural. They recommend

>>>>> >>>> natural. It's my joke that if it's natural for a pig or a cow it

s

>>>>> >>>> not necessarily natural if you're a human being. Actually

synthetic

>>>>> >>>> thyroid hormone is chemically, actually closer to what we make

than

>>>>> >>>> what is in the desiccated thyroid as the amount of hormone can

vary

>>>>> >>>> from batch to batch significantly and you won't feel any better

from

>>>>> >>>> that than you would if you were chronically low.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> These groups also say that natural being on desiccated thyroid,

one

>>>>> >>>> will see that cholesterol will be more under control and that

>>>>> >>>> depression that goes along with thyroid problems will disappear.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> The issue with depression and thyroid, again, is that if your

thyroid

>>>>> >>>> levels are normal the depression is not related to a thyroid

cause.

>>>>> >>>> There is something that they call T3 euphoria and then again

>>>>> >>>> typically people end up a little hyperthyroid. They do feel less

>>>>> >>>> depressed. The problem with that is that also tends to increase

your

>>>>> >>>> risk for atrial fibrillation which creates conditions where you

could

>>>>> >>>> have a stroke –or- it can thin your bones and you can end up with

>>>>> >>>> osteoporosis.

>>>>> >>>> A lot of these thyroid groups…well read what you want, but read

with

>>>>> >>>> a grain of salt.

>>>>> >>>> If your TSH is between 1-3 and you still have depression, it's

not

>>>>> >>>> from hypothyroidism.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> There is technically a difference between brand Synthroid and

generic

>>>>> >>>> levothyroxin. The brand is more stable and gives you a more

stable

>>>>> >>>> amount of hormone in each pill. So if you want, I'll give you

brand

>>>>> >>>> either levothyroxin or levoxil , knowing that it's a little more

>>>>> >>>> expensive.

>>>>> >>>>

September 25, 2008

Sue- I know what I wrote. I was giving her OPTIONS! Whether she treats her

self or not at least she know that option is out there. There was no strong

arming done to her. I didn't force her to sign a contract of tie her up say

you must self- treat " . All I did was put out another option for her to think

about.

-- Comments?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> I need input on the issues in this conversation. ..

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> I want to change to Armour Thyroid.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor

>>>>> >>>> - Oooooooh! Why?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> T3, T4, T2, T1, Calcitonin.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> *Sigh*

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> Either that or Westhroid.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> I don't typically switch and I don't typically use Armour. In

>>>>> >>>> larger part the problem is that its desiccated pork, pig & cow

>>>>> >>>> thyroid. The problem with it is that pigs and cows make a lot

more

>>>>> >>>> T3 than people and I may get a skewed point of view because I see

the

>>>>> >>>> people who don't do well on it but I end up with a lot of

patients in

>>>>> >>>> T3 toxicosis because they get way too much T3 and not enough T4

and

>>>>> >>>> they end up hyper thyroid on Armour. I'm not a big fan of Armour.

>>>>> >>>> Your level is improving certainly here. (Referring to last TSH).

>>>>> >>>> Humans are designed that their body's convert T4 to T3 that's how

>>>>> >>>> it works. Supplementing with T3 has been hugely controversial and

>>>>> >>>> has been for decades. Some people do it some people don't. There

s

>>>>> >>>> no good evidence that suggest its better one way or the other,

>>>>> >>>> essentially everything is tied as far as everything goes.

>>>>> >>>> I wouldn't recommend switching you. Because once you get on a

>>>>> >>>> good dose…the problem is that you've just not been on the right

dose

>>>>> >>>> of levothyroxin and your getting there and the last increase from

150

>>>>> >>>> to 175mcg/day …that was a good adjustment and I would just leave

it

>>>>> >>>> here. You don't feel well because you haven't been normal thyroid

>>>>> >>>> for months. It's not lack of T3 that's making you not feel well,

>>>>> >>>> it's a lack of thyroid hormones in general that you don't feel

well.

>>>>> >>>> And not that I don't have patients that do well on Armour, I don

t

>>>>> >>>> have that many but I have a few. The problem is long term that it

>>>>> >>>> tends to not be as stable, it's not as stable from batch to batch

>>>>> >>>> as to how much pig or how much cow, and you end up with lots of

>>>>> >>>> adjustments in you dose.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> What about another brand, like Westhroid?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> Is there a problem with levothyroxin?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> I've joined a couple thyroid support groups and the general

>>>>> >>>> consensus is that natural desiccated thyroid is the way to go. I

>>>>> >>>> just want to feel the best that I can feel, lose wt. and get on

with

>>>>> >>>> my life.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> The problem is that you just haven't been on the right amount yet

>>>>> >>>> It's not the medication…it' s the dose. Now if you prefer to take

>>>>> >>>> brand-name Synthroid …I don't have a problem with that but

switching

>>>>> >>>> to a less stable medication is just going to complicate things

>>>>> >>>> potentially. it's not a guarantee, but potentially its just going

>>>>> >>>> to complicate things down the road.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> All those support groups are all, quote, natural. They recommend

>>>>> >>>> natural. It's my joke that if it's natural for a pig or a cow it

s

>>>>> >>>> not necessarily natural if you're a human being. Actually

synthetic

>>>>> >>>> thyroid hormone is chemically, actually closer to what we make

than

>>>>> >>>> what is in the desiccated thyroid as the amount of hormone can

vary

>>>>> >>>> from batch to batch significantly and you won't feel any better

from

>>>>> >>>> that than you would if you were chronically low.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> These groups also say that natural being on desiccated thyroid,

one

>>>>> >>>> will see that cholesterol will be more under control and that

>>>>> >>>> depression that goes along with thyroid problems will disappear.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> The issue with depression and thyroid, again, is that if your

thyroid

>>>>> >>>> levels are normal the depression is not related to a thyroid

cause.

>>>>> >>>> There is something that they call T3 euphoria and then again

>>>>> >>>> typically people end up a little hyperthyroid. They do feel less

>>>>> >>>> depressed. The problem with that is that also tends to increase

your

>>>>> >>>> risk for atrial fibrillation which creates conditions where you

could

>>>>> >>>> have a stroke –or- it can thin your bones and you can end up with

>>>>> >>>> osteoporosis.

>>>>> >>>> A lot of these thyroid groups…well read what you want, but read

with

>>>>> >>>> a grain of salt.

>>>>> >>>> If your TSH is between 1-3 and you still have depression, it's

not

>>>>> >>>> from hypothyroidism.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> There is technically a difference between brand Synthroid and

generic

>>>>> >>>> levothyroxin. The brand is more stable and gives you a more

stable

>>>>> >>>> amount of hormone in each pill. So if you want, I'll give you

brand

>>>>> >>>> either levothyroxin or levoxil , knowing that it's a little more

>>>>> >>>> expensive.

>>>>> >>>>

September 25, 2008

Sue-

I gotta say , LOL they are not going to take criminal action against me

because I told her that there other options out there. LOL you do know of

the concept of individual responsibility, don't you??

Remember you have self-treated whenever you took a supplement, hormone or an

over the counter medication without asking your provider's permission... Or

when you gave your kids an Tylenol or children's advil without calling the

pediatrician for permission...

-- Comments?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> I need input on the issues in this conversation. ..

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> I want to change to Armour Thyroid.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor

>>>>> >>>> - Oooooooh! Why?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> T3, T4, T2, T1, Calcitonin.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> *Sigh*

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> Either that or Westhroid.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> I don't typically switch and I don't typically use Armour. In

>>>>> >>>> larger part the problem is that its desiccated pork, pig & cow

>>>>> >>>> thyroid. The problem with it is that pigs and cows make a lot

more

>>>>> >>>> T3 than people and I may get a skewed point of view because I see

the

>>>>> >>>> people who don't do well on it but I end up with a lot of

patients in

>>>>> >>>> T3 toxicosis because they get way too much T3 and not enough T4

and

>>>>> >>>> they end up hyper thyroid on Armour. I'm not a big fan of Armour.

>>>>> >>>> Your level is improving certainly here. (Referring to last TSH).

>>>>> >>>> Humans are designed that their body's convert T4 to T3 that's how

>>>>> >>>> it works. Supplementing with T3 has been hugely controversial and

>>>>> >>>> has been for decades. Some people do it some people don't. There

s

>>>>> >>>> no good evidence that suggest its better one way or the other,

>>>>> >>>> essentially everything is tied as far as everything goes.

>>>>> >>>> I wouldn't recommend switching you. Because once you get on a

>>>>> >>>> good dose…the problem is that you've just not been on the right

dose

>>>>> >>>> of levothyroxin and your getting there and the last increase from

150

>>>>> >>>> to 175mcg/day …that was a good adjustment and I would just leave

it

>>>>> >>>> here. You don't feel well because you haven't been normal thyroid

>>>>> >>>> for months. It's not lack of T3 that's making you not feel well,

>>>>> >>>> it's a lack of thyroid hormones in general that you don't feel

well.

>>>>> >>>> And not that I don't have patients that do well on Armour, I don

t

>>>>> >>>> have that many but I have a few. The problem is long term that it

>>>>> >>>> tends to not be as stable, it's not as stable from batch to batch

>>>>> >>>> as to how much pig or how much cow, and you end up with lots of

>>>>> >>>> adjustments in you dose.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> What about another brand, like Westhroid?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> Is there a problem with levothyroxin?

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> I've joined a couple thyroid support groups and the general

>>>>> >>>> consensus is that natural desiccated thyroid is the way to go. I

>>>>> >>>> just want to feel the best that I can feel, lose wt. and get on

with

>>>>> >>>> my life.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> The problem is that you just haven't been on the right amount yet

>>>>> >>>> It's not the medication…it' s the dose. Now if you prefer to take

>>>>> >>>> brand-name Synthroid …I don't have a problem with that but

switching

>>>>> >>>> to a less stable medication is just going to complicate things

>>>>> >>>> potentially. it's not a guarantee, but potentially its just going

>>>>> >>>> to complicate things down the road.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> All those support groups are all, quote, natural. They recommend

>>>>> >>>> natural. It's my joke that if it's natural for a pig or a cow it

s

>>>>> >>>> not necessarily natural if you're a human being. Actually

synthetic

>>>>> >>>> thyroid hormone is chemically, actually closer to what we make

than

>>>>> >>>> what is in the desiccated thyroid as the amount of hormone can

vary

>>>>> >>>> from batch to batch significantly and you won't feel any better

from

>>>>> >>>> that than you would if you were chronically low.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Me-

>>>>> >>>> These groups also say that natural being on desiccated thyroid,

one

>>>>> >>>> will see that cholesterol will be more under control and that

>>>>> >>>> depression that goes along with thyroid problems will disappear.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> Doctor-

>>>>> >>>> The issue with depression and thyroid, again, is that if your

thyroid

>>>>> >>>> levels are normal the depression is not related to a thyroid

cause.

>>>>> >>>> There is something that they call T3 euphoria and then again

>>>>> >>>> typically people end up a little hyperthyroid. They do feel less

>>>>> >>>> depressed. The problem with that is that also tends to increase

your

>>>>> >>>> risk for atrial fibrillation which creates conditions where you

could

>>>>> >>>> have a stroke –or- it can thin your bones and you can end up with

>>>>> >>>> osteoporosis.

>>>>> >>>> A lot of these thyroid groups…well read what you want, but read

with

>>>>> >>>> a grain of salt.

>>>>> >>>> If your TSH is between 1-3 and you still have depression, it's

not

>>>>> >>>> from hypothyroidism.

>>>>> >>>>

>>>>> >>>> There is technically a difference between brand Synthroid and

generic

>>>>> >>>> levothyroxin. The brand is more stable and gives you a more

stable

>>>>> >>>> amount of hormone in each pill. So if you want, I'll give you

brand

>>>>> >>>> either levothyroxin or levoxil , knowing that it's a little more

>>>>> >>>> expensive.

>>>>> >>>>

September 25, 2008

I am happy that everything worked out for you. Congrats on your beautiful

baby girl!

Nancie

-- Comments?

>>>

>>> I need input on the issues in this conversation. ..