Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

April 7, 2009

And the Republicans have contributed to the general welfare? How, by giving tax

cuts to the wealthy that don't need them?

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 2:05 PM

You're living in a fantasy land, . The proposed energy [carbon] tax

alone will be an additional tax of hundreds of billions of dollars on

_everybody_. Everything you consume uses energy if you don't grow

it/produce it yourself [and then it still uses some]. This tax will

disproportionally effect those at the bottom, because they must spend a

higher percentage of their incomes on necessities.

I don't know Steve's net worth, but I'll bet it's a heck of a lot more

than mine. Or probably yours.

Sometime just for fun look at the proportion of US income taxes paid by

the top 5%. And the bottom 50%.

It's not capitalists and free market people who " look down " on the lower

income segments. Rather they are the ones who want those people to have

the opportunity to better their situation. Liberals/Democrats depend

upon the lower class remaining destitute and dependent upon the

unfulfillable promises they make in order to get the votes to promote

their lifestyle of the powerful and rich without actually contributing

anything to the general welfare.

..

>

> Posted by: " " kennio@...

>

<mailto:kennio@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20\

Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> Kennio <Kennio>

>

> Tue Apr 7, 2009 1:57 am (PDT)

>

> " Socialism makes the entire problem larger and more intractable while the

> government rapes those who are on their way to achieving the American

> dream of financial independence.

> "

> American dream... American fantasy. Thats the problem with people like

> you have this fantasy that one day YOU will be rich, so preserving the

> privileges of the rich are important to you even if it is working

> against your own self interests. Its mind boggling.

> You actually admire those at the TOP milking the system... and even

> when they flaunt it; the loopholes and the corporate welfare, the

> hundreds of millions in salary.

> Its a fantasy you really need to get over. The rich flourished under

> the current system and I'm sure they will survive the proposed 3% tax

> increase. I guess we'll just have to put up with the huge drop in

> philanthropy. You paint them as incredibly generous when their taxes

> are lower...(more of your " rich man " fantasy). I think the last 8

> years shows that they get incredibly GREEDY when things are going

> their way.

> You focus at the people at the bottom who you think of as dirt and

> seeth at how they are milking the system by getting a single digit

> slice of the pie. All the while the top 5 percent just raped us in the

> ass for generational wealth... they robbed your children and your

> grandchildren and STILL managed to keep you focused on those you see

> as beneath you who rob you of crumbs comparatively.

> I guess some people need that... people beneath them and a fantasy

> world to aspire to.

------------------------------------

April 7, 2009

wrote:

> Your argument supports that we in the upper income tax brackets

> have to shoulder the burden a while... the little guy dies if we

> don't.

I don't think so. The people who should have lost money are the

investors in the credit default swaps. They were wealthy, have an

obligation to understand their investments, and were in a position to

take risks. Stock holders and bond holders in banks also have an

obligation to understand their risks. Then the banks started to have

problems, the losers should have been the wealthy investors, not the tax

payers. No taxes should ever be foisted on anyone to pay for the

failures of the rich to manage their own investment risks. There should

have been no government bailouts and bankruptcy should have been par for

the course. The ideal that the people should pay for the incompetent of

the largest institutions is a fallacy. The bankruptcy of Lehman

Brothers is going smoothly with assets being sold off in a timely and

not a rushed fashion. The banks that were wise managers were forced

into taking government freebies since there competitive position would

be compromised by poorly managed banks being allowed to continue to

operate and compete with them. What should have happened is that poorly

managed banks should have failed and their assets sold off to the wise

managed banks.

> We are on shaky ground right now and a 3% tax increase is the

> least I can do. It IS a matter of patriotism.

We are not on shaky ground. If taxes were to be cut, government

revenues would go up. If a point of sales tax were to be created and

all other taxes eliminated, many companies would quickly relocated back

to the USA, 10s of millions of jobs would be created and market forces

would drive wages dramatically higher.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

April 7, 2009

You and Steve are speaking from a conservative out of touch mentality

compared to the parents and single parents out there that are struggling to

survive in a economy that has not provided a living wage in decades that can

not keep up with the rates of inflation. Our economy has been a 2 person

wage earners for a long time. The majority of Americans and defiantly the

lower income brackets of this society can not make it on a single salary.

The cost of living is killing families in this country and if wasn't for

welfare, WIC, and other social service programs they would be dead. They

are not milking the system. They rely on the system now more than ever.

Charities can not keep up with the demand, because people with money are not

contributing their fair share to society and the number of poor people are

rising due to the last 8 years of felony behavior on the part of greedy

wall street felons. Food banks literally don't have enough food to go

around and many of the smaller regional charities are going broke trying to

keep up with the demand.

If we did not have the government social services , poor people would be

more screwed than they are. Not everyone can afford to get an education and

not everyone has the means to get to a job that maybe 50 miles away from

their home, because our public transportation system is broke. What about

the desperately poor areas of this country , the inner cities slums, they

are born into poverty and they will most likely die in poverty because there

is not enough money out there to bring them out of poverty.

You are going to tell them they can't or shouldn't accept governmental aid

so they can feed their families?

It is criminal that in a country as wealthy as ours, that we still have

desperate poverty and homelessness.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thyroid Doctor in the Los Angeles / Orange County area

>

> Nancie Barnett wrote:

> > Tell that to the poor women who because we have no socialized child care

> in

> > this country, can't afford to find work and care for their kids at the

> same

> > time. It is a catch 22 situation for them.

>

> Aside for women who have been raped, random sex and failure to plan

> should be something other people should pay for and or have any

> responsibility for.

>

> > Yes, there are some who milk the system but there are infinitely

> more who

> > desperately need welfare, wic and food stamps and without them would

> starve

> > along with their kids.

>

> When charities were funded by individuals, people tended to get back on

> their feet since they knew the help was not for a lifetime.

>

> > Additionally, welfare has changed and now they can not stay on the

> program

> > indefinitely. There is a limit to the time you can be on welfare. Most

> > states limit it to 5 years.

>

> IN 5 years one could get a Master's degree but people milk the system to

> the end and then wonder what they are going to do.

>

> > The AFDC program underwent a significant change under

> Republican-sponsored

> > legislation in 1996 which was signed by President Clinton. States were

> given

> > far greater latitude in designing their family welfare programs.

>

> And this kind of thing should ONLY be a state program designed or not

> according to the electorate of each state. The FED was never granted

> those rights.

>

> > As the new

> > name implies, TANF can no longer be a lifelong program. All states are

> > required to limit benefits after the expiration of a specified

> period of

> > time.

>

> Here we have the FEDs telling the states how to run the states business.

> Naughty.

>

> >

> > Under most state plans, all benefits will be terminated after five

> > years. Each program requires virtually all adult participants to

> > participate in work programs. If not working within two years,

> recipients

> > must perform community service as a condition of receiving benefits.

> >

> > http://www.newsbatch.com/welfare.htm

> <http://www.newsbatch.com/welfare.htm>

> >

> > Communism is the bad end of socialism. As my professor at UCSB said,

> it is

> > socialism gone bad.

>

> I am indifferent to your claims about your professor. He is irrelevant.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

April 7, 2009

Where does the constitution state that citizens MUST contribute their

life blood for the ephemeral " general welfare " ? No one should have to

pay more for government goods and services than another. If I drive a

car on the public roads so many miles a year, I produce only so much

wear and tear on the roads regardless of my income. The police work no

harder for me, most likely less hard, the courts cost no more to manage

my business, probably less, etc. Police by the way not protect homes

since those homes sill get robed. Owners have to provide locks and

security themselves to protect their homes and contents.

Steve

Roni Molin wrote:

> And the Republicans have contributed to the general welfare? How, by giving

tax cuts to the wealthy that don't need them?

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@...>

> Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 2:05 PM

>

> You're living in a fantasy land, . The proposed energy [carbon] tax

> alone will be an additional tax of hundreds of billions of dollars on

> _everybody_. Everything you consume uses energy if you don't grow

> it/produce it yourself [and then it still uses some]. This tax will

> disproportionally effect those at the bottom, because they must spend a

> higher percentage of their incomes on necessities.

>

> I don't know Steve's net worth, but I'll bet it's a heck of a lot more

> than mine. Or probably yours.

>

> Sometime just for fun look at the proportion of US income taxes paid by

> the top 5%. And the bottom 50%.

>

> It's not capitalists and free market people who " look down " on the lower

> income segments. Rather they are the ones who want those people to have

> the opportunity to better their situation. Liberals/Democrats depend

> upon the lower class remaining destitute and dependent upon the

> unfulfillable promises they make in order to get the votes to promote

> their lifestyle of the powerful and rich without actually contributing

> anything to the general welfare.

>

> .

>

>> Posted by: " " kennio@...

>>

<mailto:kennio@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20Big\

%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

>> Kennio <Kennio>

>>

>> Tue Apr 7, 2009 1:57 am (PDT)

>>

>> " Socialism makes the entire problem larger and more intractable while the

>> government rapes those who are on their way to achieving the American

>> dream of financial independence.

>> "

>> American dream... American fantasy. Thats the problem with people like

>> you have this fantasy that one day YOU will be rich, so preserving the

>> privileges of the rich are important to you even if it is working

>> against your own self interests. Its mind boggling.

>> You actually admire those at the TOP milking the system... and even

>> when they flaunt it; the loopholes and the corporate welfare, the

>> hundreds of millions in salary.

>> Its a fantasy you really need to get over. The rich flourished under

>> the current system and I'm sure they will survive the proposed 3% tax

>> increase. I guess we'll just have to put up with the huge drop in

>> philanthropy. You paint them as incredibly generous when their taxes

>> are lower...(more of your " rich man " fantasy). I think the last 8

>> years shows that they get incredibly GREEDY when things are going

>> their way.

>> You focus at the people at the bottom who you think of as dirt and

>> seeth at how they are milking the system by getting a single digit

>> slice of the pie. All the while the top 5 percent just raped us in the

>> ass for generational wealth... they robbed your children and your

>> grandchildren and STILL managed to keep you focused on those you see

>> as beneath you who rob you of crumbs comparatively.

>> I guess some people need that... people beneath them and a fantasy

>> world to aspire to.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

April 7, 2009

Again, I think charity should be up to non-profit. The government system

is broken, I know first hand. Blaming anyone but greedy CEO's and those in

congress who blocked regulating Freddie and Fanny is ridiculous. We are

basically rewarding those people with money for their irresponsible actions.

How about we give every person who file bankruptcy a hundrend grand and say

here this will help you get back on your feet?

CW

Traveling? Know someone who is? Use my travelocity site www.travelfhtm

com/crystalwright

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thyroid Doctor in the Los Angeles / Orange County area

>

> Nancie Barnett wrote:

> > Tell that to the poor women who because we have no socialized child care

> in

> > this country, can't afford to find work and care for their kids at the

> same

> > time. It is a catch 22 situation for them.

>

> Aside for women who have been raped, random sex and failure to plan

> should be something other people should pay for and or have any

> responsibility for.

>

> > Yes, there are some who milk the system but there are infinitely

> more who

> > desperately need welfare, wic and food stamps and without them would

> starve

> > along with their kids.

>

> When charities were funded by individuals, people tended to get back on

> their feet since they knew the help was not for a lifetime.

>

> > Additionally, welfare has changed and now they can not stay on the

> program

> > indefinitely. There is a limit to the time you can be on welfare. Most

> > states limit it to 5 years.

>

> IN 5 years one could get a Master's degree but people milk the system to

> the end and then wonder what they are going to do.

>

> > The AFDC program underwent a significant change under

> Republican-sponsored

> > legislation in 1996 which was signed by President Clinton. States were

> given

> > far greater latitude in designing their family welfare programs.

>

> And this kind of thing should ONLY be a state program designed or not

> according to the electorate of each state. The FED was never granted

> those rights.

>

> > As the new

> > name implies, TANF can no longer be a lifelong program. All states are

> > required to limit benefits after the expiration of a specified

> period of

> > time.

>

> Here we have the FEDs telling the states how to run the states business.

> Naughty.

>

> >

> > Under most state plans, all benefits will be terminated after five

> > years. Each program requires virtually all adult participants to

> > participate in work programs. If not working within two years,

> recipients

> > must perform community service as a condition of receiving benefits.

> >

> > http://www.newsbatch.com/welfare.htm

> <http://www.newsbatch.com/welfare.htm>

> >

> > Communism is the bad end of socialism. As my professor at UCSB said,

> it is

> > socialism gone bad.

>

> I am indifferent to your claims about your professor. He is irrelevant.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

April 8, 2009

Some see racism in the views of those with whom they disagree; others

see Nazism or other pejoratives. Whatever, it's in the mind of the

beholder rather than in the mind of the beheld.

Those who are REALLY raping this country are the politicians who are

dumping hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars into their favorite

pork barrel projects under the guise of " rescuing the country " . If you

think they and their crooked cronies will not benefit to the tune of

untold billions you are dreaming. I'd much rather see an entrepreneur

such as Steve making something out of this mess that benefits a lot of

people than see the former group benefit to the extent that they will.

Perhaps your story is true; I don't know. But there is a lot of

dissonance in it. Your tone comes across much more of whining than does

Steve's and your charges of greediness and contempt for the less

fortunate are not supported by anything I've read.

..

>

> Posted by: " " kennio@...

>

<mailto:kennio@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20Big\

%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> Kennio <Kennio>

>

> Tue Apr 7, 2009 11:34 am (PDT)

>

> Oh, my god. You're the landlord from hell. A king with contempt for

> his subjects.

>

> I grew up with nothing and dreaming of having everything. I taught

> myself computers in the early 80's and then taught word processing at

> business colleges for a while. I became a consultant and eventually

> designed and installed computer departments for Nickelodeon Animation

> in Los Angeles and New York city. I ended up staying there for a

> number of years in a management position. See my name on all the

> Sponge Bob cartoons.

>

> I was involved in southern California real estate in the late 80's and

> didn't make out too well by the time the market collapsed. Around 1995

> I got back into it on the side. For 12 years I bought and sold houses

> here in the Hollywood Hills. I quit Nickelodeon in '05 and made

> millions flipping homes. I saw all the signs of impending collapse and

> liquidated in 2007. I warned anyone that would listen (very few wanted

> to hear it) that it was time to cash out and wait. I made it out

> unscathed and retired at 45 and have just traveled the world the last

> couple years.

>

> I do not feel I need a tax break. Sure its hard writing a check for

> several hundred thousand to the IRS... I feel your pain. But really,

> how much more money to you need? You want the obscene wealth of a

> fortune 500 CEO? That was attained by pillaging your children's future

> as you sat admirably by and watched. That kind of greed will get paid

> for in another life... both figuratively and literally.

>

> Brains are obviously hard wired differently. YOU get money and get

> greedy and contemptuous of the unwashed public. I get money and I

> don't see a problem raising my taxes 3% to make my contribution to

> help fix the mess we are in. Anything else would be unpatriotic. I had

> the opportunity. I deserve to pay more... the system worked for me

> just like it should. I am grateful and to not be grateful is shameless.

>

> I always find thinly veiled racism at the core of all of these types

> of arguments especially when the white collar criminal milking the

> system from the top doesn't raise a blip on the whiners radar.

April 8, 2009

No; we are supposed to be a nation with " freedom of religion " . Which

incidentally also implies freedom FROM any religion we do not choose to

follow. Here we can choose whatever creation myth that appeals to us

and it is none of the government's business. It's rather strange that

you wish to apply the writing of some ancient book in which you do not

even believe. But you might note that supposedly Jesus said " The poor

you have...always " or similar. IOW you CAN'T fix that situation.

The fact is that the wealthy _already_ pay a highly disproportionate

percentage of taxes, so _any_ increase is reprehensible. I happen to

think that YOU could better invest whatever portion of your wealth to

the benefit of the less fortunate than could the government. Well run

charities may provide up to 90% or more of dollars given to benefit

clients, while the government and other assorted chiselers may provide

less than 10%. Give whatever you want, it's YOUR money. If you think

the government is the most efficient, honest and effective tool to

redistribute your wealth then have at it. They will accept donations.

..

>

> Posted by: " " kennio@...

>

<mailto:kennio@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20Big\

%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> Kennio <Kennio>

>

> Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:37 pm (PDT)

>

> I thought we were a Christian country?? Well read your bible and see

> what Jesus says about YOUR money and the poor. You're supposed to be

> giving it all away. I'm not religious in the least, btw... just

> baffled how middle Americans (republicans) and others (Joe the

> plumber) are easily riled up about those making over $250K being taxed

> more and about ME getting taxed more when it doesn't affect them. I

> can afford it... don't worry about me... really.

>

> A 3% tax increase to the wealthy is stealing to you? REALLY? Strange.

April 8, 2009

No; it's neither the fault of the poor nor the rich. Although those who

caused the problem are typically rich compared to me and the average

citizen. It's the fault of the US Congress and laws passed back as far

as 1977 that began to change the criteria of obtaining a mortgage from

being the ability to pay it back to something more politically correct.

Following hundreds of millions of dollars of lawsuits against lenders

who attempted to use the old, obsolete criteria of loan repayment

ability instead of skin color or some other politically correct crap it

gradually came to be that ability to repay was almost totally tossed

out. Not just for some favored minority, but for everybody. My wife

and I were approved almost instantly for an UNDOCUMENTED loan of over

$400,000 and we ARE NOT wealthy [we backed away from the deal for other

reasons].

A lot of what you say about the present situation is IMHO correct. I

just disagree with you on how/why we got here, and the best way to get

out. Taxing the " rich " is typically as productive as was the infamous

tax on the wealthy who could afford multi-million dollar yachts of

several years back. I hope you know what a fiasco that was.

You're probably right about taxes increasing. But another possibility

is massive inflation, to the extent that it will probably literally

impoverish millions of retirees. Lots of pensions have no increase

built in at all, you know. Even worse would be tax increases PLUS

massive inflation. I don't see how we can possibly avoid the massive

inflation, given the trillions of dollars the government is throwing at

our present problem. Most of which produces little if any increase in

consumer goods and services. Economics 101 says that a massive influx

of dollars chasing the same goods and services equates to massive inflation.

I think you're wrong about the timing of the real estate recovery, and

the signs I see suggest that now is a very good time to buy. You can

presently buy MANY houses for less than the appraised value of the lot.

I'm in central Florida, one of the places very hard hit and I know that

numbers of local sales have turned around already.

..

>

> Posted by: " " kennio@...

>

<mailto:kennio@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20Big\

%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> Kennio <Kennio>

>

> Tue Apr 7, 2009 1:22 pm (PDT)

>

> No one is talking about charity or the poor really. We are screwed

> right now. We are just about owned by China and are printing money as

> if it is really an option. The country is on the ropes. Taxes must

> increase... those of us that make more and benefitted the most... owe

> more. It's simple and I am resigned to it. YOU are getting confused,

> the POOR people who take advantage are not the cause the current near

> collapse of the U.S. it is the fault of the RICH. The greedy, greedy

> rich.

>

> BTW, you do not buy a home while prices are continuing to fall. The

> new government programs that are offering artificially low interests

> rates are just more of the same of what started this whole bubble.

> Continuing low interest will guarantee market stagnation in the long

> run. They're just propping up still high property prices. Now, only

> time will level out values. As cycles go it will be at least 7 to 10

> years before we see substantial property value increases.

>

> I'll start looking to jump back in for a personal residence in the

> next 18 months hopefully... I waited out the collapse in an apartment.

> I watch real estate markets in Europe and Asia and they are about a

> year behind us in the collapse.

April 8, 2009

Keep proving my point. Republicans without money (bizarre mindset) often

support the greedy rich guy because they fantisize about being one themselves.

Support tax breaks for the wealthy because they in their minds they just might

be able to benefit one day... Joe the plumber is the perfect example of that

phenomenon. One would think IQ plays a part here.

The dissonance you feel is that someone with money has a heart and isnt' all

about hoarding it. I have plenty of money. I make my money off interest on my

savings now and even though that has been cut in half lately I live just fine.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I bust my ass for my money... I DID

but now I don't. I don't work at all for my money anymore.

I DO know where all the money was just sucked out of this country and it went UP

not DOWN. If you are foolish enough to reject a tax break and worry that the

rich won't like you for having them shoulder the responsibility for a while then

that is your prerogative. You need to see reality... greed is not good.

I see it as we are just recovering from a near 8 year coup of the US by

extremists. Rampant cronyism and the nations high honors given for blind

support of the bush agenda... every level of government being stacked with

inexperienced appointees who pledged alligence to bush...not the country. We

came awfully close to what it was to live in Nazi Germany. There needs to be

abuse of power and war crime trials held in this country over what happened

here.

When it is all over we are left a broken looted nation with no one held

accountable. Just old SS soldiers wandering around (like you) secretly raging

about what might have been... not knowing who to be mad at. You have what is

called the Stockholm syndrome most likely.

" Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in abducted

hostages, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker,

regardless of the danger or risk in which they have been placed. "

Snap out of it.

________________________________

From: <res075oh@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 11:19:14 AM