Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

[Guest guest]

The only thing I would like to point out is that without taxes there is no

government, and without government there is anarchy like in Somalia. I don't

think I'd enjoy that, no matter how good I am with money.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 9:01 PM

I'm proud to be a Republican [usually], and I'm aware I will never be

rich.  I resist taxes, period; not because I expect to be wealthy [i'm

68, retired] but because I simply see no evidence that the government

can spend anyone's money to better effect than can the owner of that

money.  You really should give up amateur psychology or learn a bit

about it.  Every attitude you attempt to plaster on my misses the mark

by a mile.

..

..

>

>       Posted by: " " kennio@...

>   

   <mailto:kennio@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20\

Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

>         Kennio <Kennio>

>

>

>         Wed Apr 8, 2009 12:26 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Keep proving my point. Republicans without money (bizarre mindset)

> often support the greedy rich guy because they fantisize about being

> one themselves. Support tax breaks for the wealthy because they in

> their minds they just might be able to benefit one day... Joe the

> plumber is the perfect example of that phenomenon. One would think IQ

> plays a part here.

>

> The dissonance you feel is that someone with money has a heart and

> isnt' all about hoarding it. I have plenty of money. I make my money

> off interest on my savings now and even though that has been cut in

> half lately I live just fine. I'm not going to sit here and pretend

> that I bust my ass for my money... I DID but now I don't. I don't work

> at all for my money anymore.

>

> I DO know where all the money was just sucked out of this country and

> it went UP not DOWN. If you are foolish enough to reject a tax break

> and worry that the rich won't like you for having them shoulder the

> responsibility for a while then that is your prerogative. You need to

> see reality... greed is not good.

..

..

If you think Obama is going to be able to get his carbon tax through and

give anyone a tax break you're a fool.  If you think I give a rat's

patooie what the rich think of me you're a fool.  Nothing I've written

indicates such.

..

..

>

> I see it as we are just recovering from a near 8 year coup of the US

> by extremists. Rampant cronyism and the nations high honors given for

> blind support of the bush agenda... every level of government being

> stacked with inexperienced appointees who pledged alligence to

> bush...not the country. We came awfully close to what it was to live

> in Nazi Germany. There needs to be abuse of power and war crime trials

> held in this country over what happened here.

..

..

Oh, yes; now we have " change " .  Every appointment from Hillery on down a

member of the old school liberal establishment.  Many of whom couldn't

be bothered to pay their taxes that you so dearly love.  I guess they

really aren't like you.  The real crimes are going on RIGHT NOW, with

trillions being shoveled out to favorite pork barrel projects. 

Typically by the same democrats that foiled Bush's efforts to rein in

Fanny and Freddie in 2006.

..

..

>

> When it is all over we are left a broken looted nation with no one

> held accountable. Just old SS soldiers wandering around (like you)

> secretly raging about what might have been... not knowing who to be

> mad at. You have what is called the Stockholm syndrome most likely.

..

..

Talk about being broken and looted.  Obama inherited, what, a one point

x trillion dollar deficit?  Or was it national debt??? And exactly how

much do you expect to be looted from tax payers over the next few years???

Again:  Give up the amateur psychology.  I'm about as far from an SS

soldier as you will ever find.  But I'm also aware that when someone's

argument is irretrievably broken a dishonest or illiterate debater has a

tendency at some point to haul out the " Nazi " charge against his

opponent.  It's well documented in the psychology books.  I have no

rage, but do have a rather stoic and pessimistic acceptance that you

liberals have _already_ destroyed this country beyond any possibility of

redemption.  And I fear that Obama's throwing away trillions may vastly

hasten the destruction that I don't see how we can avoid.  We just don't

have a reasonable way to pay back all those trillions without some

combination of massive taxes and/or massive inflation.

..

..

>

> " Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in

> abducted hostages, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the

> hostage-taker, regardless of the danger or risk in which they have

> been placed. "

..

..

What a crock.  I probably have as little respect for the wealthy as you

do; especially since you're one of them.  My respect for people is based

totally on other than net worth.  Strangely, ambition, skill,

intelligence and reasonable risk taking along with other admirable

characteristics do sometimes equate to accumulation of wealth.  I don't

see it often in anyone with such a world view as you express.

..

..

>

> Snap out of it.

..

..

No one who knows anything about psychology would make the professional

diagnoses that you have base upon the evidence you've seen.  And if they

did they would be unlikely to be so pathetically wrong on every count.

..

..

>

> ____________

> ____________________

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 11:19:14 AM

> Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re:

> Re: Thy

>

> Some see racism in the views of those with whom they disagree; others

> see Nazism or other pejoratives. Whatever, it's in the mind of the

> beholder rather than in the mind of the beheld.

>

> Those who are REALLY raping this country are the politicians who are

> dumping hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars into their favorite

> pork barrel projects under the guise of " rescuing the country " . If you

> think they and their crooked cronies will not benefit to the tune of

> untold billions you are dreaming. I'd much rather see an entrepreneur

> such as Steve making something out of this mess that benefits a lot of

> people than see the former group benefit to the extent that they will.

>

> Perhaps your story is true; I don't know. But there is a lot of

> dissonance in it. Your tone comes across much more of whining than does

> Steve's and your charges of greediness and contempt for the less

> fortunate are not supported by anything I've read.

>

>

> .

> .

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Get your facts straight please. Bush was elected to office in 2000.

 

 

In 2001, Pelosi was elected the House Minority Whip, second-in-command to

Minority Leader Dick Gephardt of Missouri. She was the first woman in U.S.

history to hold that position. Since then, she has campaigned for candidates in

30 states and in 90 Congressional districts, making her a vital factor for the

Democratic Party.

In 2002, after Gephardt resigned as minority leader to seek the Democratic

nomination in the 2004 presidential election, Pelosi was elected to replace him,

becoming the first woman to lead a minority and major party in the House.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Valarie <val@...>

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 9:02 PM

Nancie, did Bush spend all that money all by himself?  Did Pelosi say,

before Bush was ever in office, that we had to get Saddam and his weapons of

mass destruction?  Was she lying? 

Could you please explain exactly how the " Bushie's administration created a

(sic) economic crisis in this country " ?  That is nice liberal rhetoric, but

what does it mean?

How much is a living wage?  What happens if that living wage causes the cost

of production to be greater than what the item will sell for?  Should that

living wage still be mandated?  Who will pay for the deficit of cost over

price?  How much production will there be?

Are you aware of supply and demand, mandated minimum wage effect on demand,

cost, etc.?  Have you ever taken Economics 101 or Economics 102?

Val

<hypothyroidism/message/46754;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYjQ

zYTlzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDNDY

3NTQEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIzOTMyNzAyOA--> 

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

Of course there is something to debate , Val but what is the point with

your narrow conservative view of life that has no empathy for needy people.

Bush did nothing to help out the country, he created an unneeded war where

over 4,000 young men and women have died and over 1 million Iraqi's have

died. Nice.

Teenage's can't get work not because the minimum wage has been increased,

but BECAUSE Bushie's administration created a economic crisis in this

country where the situation is so bad, that people are losing their jobs and

the employers who are still hiring want people with work experience and

teenagers usually don't have work experience, val.

I hope your family never gets jobs that are not living wages. But, I think

you should be required to work in a job that is not a living wage and see

how well you fare on a income that has not kept up with inflation. See how

long you stay afloat....

[Guest guest]

Who said I was?

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

Nancie, I think it is wonderful that you are a liberal. I admire how much

you care for people and animals. We need more people like you. IMHO, you

are free to give away anything that belongs to YOU; that is, the fruit of

your labors. You, however, are not free to confiscate the fruits of MY

labors to give to YOUR causes.

Val

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and

%20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

deifspirit@... <aspenfairy1> aspenfairy1

Yes, I am a liberal democrat and I am damn proud of it! I will never stop

caring about people who are in need and I will never stop advocating for

them or for the animals.

I am proud to say that I have worked with the Kennedy's and the 's and

the shrivers.

[Guest guest]

Crystal, history is written by the victors or survivors. There isn't

any one set of " facts " stored away somewhere that you can access to find

out " what really happened " . Even the best we have is based upon

conjecture, incomplete or missing facts, or selective inclusion or

exclusion of same. Suppose Germany or Japan had won WW2: Do you really

think the history books would resemble what we have now??? 's

beloved Nazis would probably be heroes.

Don't get me wrong: We have some GREAT historical records. But it

takes almost a lifetime of research covering many diverse authors to

come to have a pretty good idea as to what were the real stories in any

major historical event or era.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Crystal " sweetnwright@...

>

<mailto:sweetnwright@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%2\

0Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> sweetenloe1 <sweetenloe1>

>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 7:14 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> History isn't an idea. It either was or it wasn't. As far as learning

> history from a biased website is wrong. You can actually find the HISTORY

> documents I read on any legitimate website. I just happen to read correct

> info because of Barton.

[Guest guest]

I guess you haven't heard of presidential veto powers....

bushier made it impossible to do anything good for the country unless it

benefited the rich.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

You've had things your way for 8 years. It bankrupted the country. Nows the

time to pay up or get out. Funny thing is that you're probably one of those

that is getting a tax break and Fox news has you raging with false info

anyway. Joe the plumber anyone?

On Apr 9, 2009, at 3:43 PM, " Valarie " <val@...> wrote:

Nancie, I think it is wonderful that you are a liberal. I admire how much

you care for people and animals. We need more people like you. IMHO, you

are free to give away anything that belongs to YOU; that is, the fruit of

your labors. You, however, are not free to confiscate the fruits of MY

labors to give to YOUR causes.

Val

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and

%20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

deifspirit@... <aspenfairy1> aspenfairy1

Yes, I am a liberal democrat and I am damn proud of it! I will never stop

caring about people who are in need and I will never stop advocating for

them or for the animals.

I am proud to say that I have worked with the Kennedy's and the 's and

the shrivers.

[Guest guest]

Exactly.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

No, Bush began his administration in January of 2001. Democrats did not take

over

the majority till May 2007. His administration ended January 2009, so that

is

only 20 months that they have been the majority under Bush, and Bush vetoed

legislation and/or issued signing statement with each bill passed.

http://democrats.senate.gov/journal/entry.cfm?id=275134

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

Nancie, I think it is wonderful that you are a liberal. I admire how much

you care for people and animals. We need more people like you. IMHO, you

are free to give away anything that belongs to YOU; that is, the fruit of

your labors. You, however, are not free to confiscate the fruits of MY

labors to give to YOUR causes.

Val

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and

%20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

deifspirit@... <aspenfairy1> aspenfairy1

Yes, I am a liberal democrat and I am damn proud of it! I will never stop

caring about people who are in need and I will never stop advocating for

them or for the animals.

I am proud to say that I have worked with the Kennedy's and the 's and

the shrivers.

[Guest guest]

I agree with that.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re:

Re: Thy

> > > hypothyroidism

> > > Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 8:56 AM

> > >

> > >

> > > Really? Revenues increased considerably. What didn't work?

> > >

> > > Val

> > >

> > >

> > > <hypothyroidism/message/46638

_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGY

> > >

yMTczBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDNDY

> > > 2MzgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIzOTI2MDkxMw-->

> > >

> > >

> > > Posted by: " "

> > >

> > >

> > > Yeah, right. We just tried the tax cuts for 8 years. IT DIDN'T WORK.

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

You syntax is not clear. I'm not sure what you're babbling about.

Is Joe's book a picture book? Does it come with crayons? Do you really like it?

He's cute, right?

________________________________

From: Valarie <val@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:01:27 PM

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

, could you please explain what exactly it is that I've had my way for

eight years? How exactly did what I have cause the country to bankrupt?

I'm very curious to know how you know all this about me.

BTW, if you're going to make a contraction out of " now " and " is, " it is

" now's. "

Funny you should mention Joe. I just bought his book.

Val

Posted by: " "

<mailto:kennio (DOT) com?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20Cows% 2C%20Geopolitics %2C%20and%

2

0Big%20Business% 20Re%3A%20% 5Bhypothyroidism %5D%20Re% 3A%20Thy>

kennio (DOT) com <http://profiles. / Kennio> Kennio

You've had things your way for 8 years. It bankrupted the country. Nows the

time to pay up or get out. Funny thing is that you're probably one of those

that is getting a tax break and Fox news has you raging with false info

anyway. Joe the plumber anyone?

[Guest guest]

Yes, he's a big teddybear.

________________________________

From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 8:08:33 PM

Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

Careful Steve, you're starting to sound like a philanthropist.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

> You know, having had the fortune to find a couple who practiced very much what

Steve is proposing, I am in total agreement with his concept. Had it not been

for this like-minded couple we bought our home from, we might still be living in

rental properties, but because of a very similar agreement, we were able to

apply our limited income, while going to college and trying to support 4 kids,

on house payments that were way less than half of what we would have had to pay

in rent! It's too bad there aren't more like him!!!

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@ basicmail. net

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

------------ --------- --------- ------

[Guest guest]

Roni, without following up on your sources I would venture a guess of

yes and no. To whatever extent original documents are contained then

some element of history exists. To whatever extent these documents are

INTERPRETED then some element of lack of total accuracy will creep in.

It's just not possible to grasp all the nuances of typical records of

human interactions without a massive knowledge of the producing

culture. It almost takes a lifetime to gain the insight needed; and

there will ALWAYS be less than total grasp of any complex matter.

You certainly can get far better records of major historical figures

such as, say, our presidents than the pap we were fed in school. But no

interpretation of records about any complex human endeavor will ever be

totally accurate. Heck, even when two people are involved they will

write books almost unrecognizable about the same events sometimes.

Of course, if you're comparing historical records to myths then the

records have a much better established score.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%\

20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 8:20 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> The following are history.

>

>

> http://history-world.org/united_states_of_america.htm

> <http://history-world.org/united_states_of_america.htm>

>

>

> http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/georgewashington/

> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/georgewashington/>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Roni

[Guest guest]

I am getting my info form the Obama administration and a friend who works

for the administration on a local level.

-- Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

You said it Nancie!...'he paid everything that was required of him.'...doesn

t change the fact that any of the rest of us would have had to pay late fees

and penalties, but he didn't...according to the constitution, he wasn't/isn

t above the law any more than you or I. It also doesn't make it morally or

honorably just. Also, the statute of limitations isn't 2 years...an audit

can actually go back 7 years...it use to be 10 years.

Where are you getting your information from?...his CPA...I heard the words

come from the man's mouth himself when he said, 'I made a mistake with

TurboTax...' When did TurboTax suddenly receive the esteemed title of CPA?!

Regardless of that, there's a case in the local metro courts right now where

a bar has had it's license revoked because the bar owner signed the

application renewal without looking it over (prepared by her insurance and

she made the assumption everything was fine)... According to 'the system'

(dang those liberal democrats!), everyone is accountable for whatever they

sign, regardless of whether they prepared the paperwork themselves, or had

someone else prepare it for them.

" Or how may in the last 8 years of that felonious administration? "

You sure have a way of 'criminalizing' whatever behavior doesn't happen to

fit with your world-view! I'll bet you even support the charges a lawyer in

Spain is trying to bring against five advisers of the former administration.

..be careful what you wish for Nancie, because the grounds they are using has

the potential to be applied to the current administration as well...

Personally, I have my doubts that it will go anywhere, but that's usually

the way it works...the first time around... ...and to think, this Spanish

lawyer actually did commit a crime and served prison time for it...

> >

> > Nancie, Tax cheat Geitner paid back taxes for two years. He did not pay

> all

> > of them because the statute of limitations had run out on two other

years.

> > Cheat? He didn't admit a thing until he was caught.

> >

> > Val

> >

> > Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

> >

> >

> >

> > At least he corrected it and admitted it.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Good for you, glad it worked out. Owning is always better than renting.

However, not everyone can afford to own their own home, so they have to rent

They deserve to live in an apartment that has a reasonable monthly rent and

not to live in an apartment that the owner only does " minimal " amount of

repairs. Don't you agree?

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re:

> Re:

> >>> Thy

> >>>

> >>> Hmmm, I thought he had a pretty good handle on it. With what part do

> >>> you disagree?

> >>>

> >>>

> >

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ROTFLMAO.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

>> Thy

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Nancie Barnett wrote:

>>> I work with the homeless and it is criminal that we

>>> as a wealthy society don't do anything to get them off the streets.

>> Criminal is when one breaks the law, not when someone does something you

>> don't agree with. Not all laws ought to be obeyed. Laws in Germany

>> requiring you to out Jews were immoral. There are US laws as well that

>> ought to be ignored, like any form of draft/enslavement.

>>

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

You don't seem to get that bush didn't get us into this. It was GREEDY CEO

s, and democrats who blocked regulation of Fannie and Freddie. Now my kids

gotta pay for a stimulus plan democrats voted for.

CW

Traveling? Know someone who is? Use my travelocity site www.travelfhtm

com/crystalwright

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

Really? Revenues increased considerably. What didn't work?

Val

<hypothyroidism/message/46638;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbGY

yMTczBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDNDY

2MzgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIzOTI2MDkxMw-->

Posted by: " "

Yeah, right. We just tried the tax cuts for 8 years. IT DIDN'T WORK.

[Guest guest]

We aren't talking about " he " [a single example]. We're talking about

multiple examples. Anyway, tax cheats are typically eager [somewhat,

anyway] to pay the tax when they get caught once the alternatives are

explained to them. But you or I would probably go to jail.

When you say " he " perhaps you mean Geithner /Obama's treasury/

secretary? I believe his excuse was ignorance. If that is true and

correct than he should not be treasury secretary. That level of

ignorance is simply unacceptable in such a position.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20B\

ig%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 10:30 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Oh, please! Look at the number of tax cheats in congress and the house,

> especially with the republicans!

> Geez, you conservatives make a big frigging deal, people make mistakes on

> their taxes all the time. At least he corrected it and admitted it. I like

> to see how many of the republicans admit that they made mistakes or

> actually

> cheated on their taxes!

> The number of private taxpayers who have their taxes done by a CPA is high

> and it is also a significant number of people who get in trouble with the

> IRS because their tax preparer screwed up!

>

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

>

>

>

> It's a matter of personal philosophy. Liberals will say yes while

> conservatives will say no. Liberals will approve of high taxes

> [especially on " the wealthy " ] but when they fall into the wealthy class

> they tend to avoid them by legal or illegal means. Look at the number

> of tax cheats in Obama's appointments.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am talking about a war that we had no business starting, that was started

under false pretenses and BS. We went into this country without UN support,

big frigging mistake and now over 4,000 soldiers are dead because of it. And

over 1 million Iraqi's.

There was no axis of evil and Iraq did not participate in 911. Is that not

clear enough for you.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

News flash! There are 20 million illegals in this country taking American

jobs.

Fannie and Freddie failed because Congress, under and Clinton,

mandated banks loan to unworthy borrowers. Five years ago, Geo Bush tried

to rein them in and Barney screamed " discrimination against poor

people. " Bush backed down. Republicans didn't fight. McCain also

tried a couple of years ago but his bill died in a Democrat controlled

committee.

There is nothing above with which to argue. Those are all provable facts.

BTW, more teenagers would be working now if the minimum wage hadn't have

been jacked up by the liberals.

Val

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:45 am (PDT)

News flash there is not

enough jobs and more people are going to be losing their jobs before it

evens out and not everyone can afford to go to higher education! E

Fannie Mae failed remember?

[Guest guest]

If you join tom coburn, who is famous in DC for getting rid of wasteful

spending, on twitter you can keep up with all the earmarks

CW

Traveling? Know someone who is? Use my travelocity site www.travelfhtm

com/crystalwright

-- Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re: Thy

It did, last week, Thursday I believe it was...

> ...Tell

> me how many thousands of earmarks [not all by democrats] are in the

> current budget bill [i think it passed].

> ...

>

[Guest guest]

When my husband was alive he would always make out the taxes in such a way that

we overpaid. Then they would audit the return and send money back to us. He like

it that way, rather than have them expecting too much claimed.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

> Plus,

> there is no statue of limitations for the IRS, they can go after as many

> years as they want.

You have a very creative imagination constantly make claims about

government laws and constitutional issues that are completely wrong:

Under section 6501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code (Tax Code) and

section 301.6501(a)-1(a) of the Income Tax Regulations (Tax

Regulations), the IRS is required to assess tax within 3 years after the

tax return was filed with the IRS. Similarly, under 301.6501(a)-1( of

the Tax Regulations no proceeding in court by the IRS without assessment

for the collection of any tax can begin after the expiration of 3 years.

What is clear is that the IRS CANNOT go after as many years as they want.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

If there is no axis of evil who is killing our soldiers? What do you assume

we should do about N Korea? Ignore them too? Until what they kill 3,000

Americans on our soil? I know people in the military and they are SUPER

proud of what they do. They are MORE than willing to go back to Iraq over

and over til we win. This is AMerica since when do we let people run all

over us?

CW

Traveling? Know someone who is? Use my travelocity site www.travelfhtm

com/crystalwright

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

News flash! There are 20 million illegals in this country taking American

jobs.

Fannie and Freddie failed because Congress, under and Clinton,

mandated banks loan to unworthy borrowers. Five years ago, Geo Bush tried

to rein them in and Barney screamed " discrimination against poor

people. " Bush backed down. Republicans didn't fight. McCain also

tried a couple of years ago but his bill died in a Democrat controlled

committee.

There is nothing above with which to argue. Those are all provable facts.

BTW, more teenagers would be working now if the minimum wage hadn't have

been jacked up by the liberals.

Val

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

Thu Apr 9, 2009 12:45 am (PDT)

News flash there is not

enough jobs and more people are going to be losing their jobs before it

evens out and not everyone can afford to go to higher education! E

Fannie Mae failed remember?

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> What the hell are you talking about, I live near Santa and I interact

> with the poor on a regular basis. They are still a large percentage of poor

> people living in Santa , it just depends on what section of Santa

> you are speaking about.

You NEVER provide facts to back up what you say, just generalizations

that hide the fact that you are wrong. Yes, it may be true that there

are poor living in Santa , not doubt. But my point wasn't that

there are no poor in Santa so you are playing straw man,

something that you constantly do when you are not making up sh*t. The

percentage of lower income families in Santa is going down

compared to other comparable cites. Rent control doesn't help the poor,

it results in more of them having to leave rent controlled areas to find

any rental opportunities at all. It makes the city more and more exclusive.

> There is traffic congestion everywhere Steve, even in Beverly Hills;

> brentwood; Malibu ; bel-air and pacific palisades. All of these communities

> are wealthy suburbs. And before you go and say I don't know what I am

> talking about, I grew up in Brentwood and I live in the palisades.

> Santa doesn't have a monopoly on traffic congestion, in fact the

> traffic in certain areas of SM is LESS than in the other communities I

> mentioned.

Again with the strawman arguments. Who cares if trafice exists

somewhere. Traffice problems exist almost every where so your argument

is BS. There are still lower paying jobs in Santa and those

workers have to communte in because the total rental stock is not

keeping up with other cities nearby that don't have rent control.

That's the point. Rent Control generates more traffic than not since it

lowers rental stock and pushes renters farther away requiring longer

commute times and more cars on the road for longer. Like I said, I

wont' invest in rental property in a rent controlled area and most

investors will not either. The investors you have are trapped.

> The home prices in Santa are very high, the little boxes that are

> called homes in the ocean park area go for 1 million dollars. So,

> obliviously even with rent control for the apartments, it is still a

> desirable area to live. Homes north of Montana Ave and south of sunset go

> for over 1 million and the lots are not that big. Homes near Ocean park Ave

> [ near the bluffs], go for 2+ million. Homes on PCH also go for over 2

> million each. I have a family friend, an ex- law partner of my dad's that

> lives in a beach front home that is worth 5 million.

Well, why don't you buy one of those homes and rent it out for the what

the rent control board will allow? Do you think you can live well

loosing thousands of dollars a month as a gift to the " poor " renters?

Let me play your kind of " fact " game. I don't live in a rent controlled

city/state, my house is 5500 sq ft, and we paid $465K so lack of rent

control must make houses cheaper! Your logic at work.

O, and I got one of the " unsafe " loans because it was cheaper than

paying cash when investing is taken into account. My loan is interest

only and it was a NO-DOC loan. I provided no proof of anything except a

letter from my accountant saying that I was good for the payments and a

copy of one bank statement from one bank, which only when to the my

buyer broker (who represented me only 100% by contract) to make her

comfortable that when I said I was putting $200K down, it was available.

That's it. They ran a credit check since I was notified right away by

my credit service. The bank sold the loan (most banks do) and the new

bank asked to audit me. I ignored them. I wasn't going to do a no-doc

loan and then still have to find and collect all the paperwork and proof

of income. They would have to foreclose to get me to respond and since

I make my payments every month scheduled to go out 2 week early, they

were not going to waste their money trying to get my compliance. They

may have to audit a certain percentage of their loans but I wasn't going

play the game. Hardball is the only game to play with banks.

If I had a house in Santa I was renting, today I would be going

to the bank saying I was loosing money and I would have to walk away

from the loan unless they restructurd my loan, forgive a portion, and

cut my interest rate on the rest. Today I would have the leverage and

would extract my profits using the bank since the obama administration

has made that possible and the bank will recover some of the losses from

the taxpayers. There's always a solution to every problem, usually many

solutions.

> Santa doesn't prevent you from selling a building, LOL you can sell

> your building, but you have to sell it in good condition, otherwise you are

> considered a slum lord and then the DA will throw your butt in jail where

> all slum lords belong.

In a real market, one can sell their house as they see fit. I prefer to

paint, fix, and clean to a sparklingly fresh look and if necessary stage

it. On the other hand, I would never buy investment houses in good

condition since they are too pricey unless it is a seller financed deal

or short sale. Damaged houses have to be discounted far below the

fixing costs since most people cannot be bothered to fix them.

It really is sad that you think that when you buy a house, you should

not be able to have effective control over it.

> Rent control is there so that the most vulnerable tenants, like the elderly

> [ sm has a huge elderly pop] don't get forced out of their apartments

> because some greedy jerk keeps raising the rent over what he actually needs

> to pay for maintenance. Santa is a liberal leaning city, Steve. It

> always has been. We have a Kennedy, Bobby shriver who is a city councilman

> and Max Kennedy also has a home here.

Which means that Santa on average does not generously contribute

to charities like conservative cities do. Liberals tend to be cheep

givers and use laws to take other peoples money, not use their own.

You seem to think it is good thing to only allow landlords to get enough

rent to pay expenses, and no more. People invest money to make a

living. Why would you invest in any business if the law only allowed

you to to pay business expenses, work hard at it, and go home every day

with no profits to pay for your own food, housing, etc.

> so, you gave 250,000+ in charity, good for you, although i am surprised

> since you think that other needy people shouldn't be allowed to cut into

> your hard earned wages.

No, no one should be able to steal my money. That's what guns are for.

I decide to be charitable when I want to and it provides me with

personal benefits to give to the charities which I like and have a

personal connection with. I get none of those benefits when money is

taken from me, for whatever reason. I'm never floating on cloud nine

feeling like I've done some good in the world when I file my taxes,

never. I never file my taxes and think " This is fantastic, I want to do

this again! "

Having a rental in Santa , collecting my rents, paying my bills,

property taxes, etc., and seeing that after I'm done I don't have

anything left to live on would not make me feel fantastic. In fact, I

might just stop paying my mortgage and walk away rather than lose money

every month (or take my profits from the bank at the taxpayer's expense

- thanks obama).

I took at look at chartable giving by state. My state, Utah, is ranked

number one, most likely the most conservative state in the Union.

Mormons are very very conservative (on average) and very very chartable.

Most Charitable States

http://www.forbes.com/2005/11/23/most-charitable-states-cx_lh_1125home_ls.html

Scan down and click on the slide show.

> if you don't like big scary government to " steal " your hard earned monies,

> then why don't you declare yourself one of those ex-patriots who don't

> recognize the USA as their country and stop paying taxes. that way you can

> be assured that none of your hard earned monies don't go to any governmental

> social service programs that help the needy.

The US passed a law last year that says in effect, we own you and if you

want to pay off your slave contract, we will take 50% of all your

worldwide assets as payment. Then you will be allowed to give up your

citizenship. Sounds like the kind of enslaving laws that you find adorable.

However, I have other options. One is to get dual citizenships or more

with other countries and carry several passports. I've looked into this

already. Another options is to transfer one's wealth to a trust, to

effectively not own your assets anymore. However, one would still

control the trust but all trust income would not be yours. As trustee

however, you can pay yourself whatever you need and pay taxes only on

that, and keep the rest in the trust. A trust never dies and control

can pass to ones heirs as you see fit without taxable consequences.

The only way to prevent people from ultimately controlling their own

lives (at least the creative ones) is to put them in leg irons, and I

don't think that bothers one one bit, even if those leg irons are legal

ones.

Steve

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

>

>

>

> .

>

> And you ignored the fact that Santa 's rental stock is decreasing,

> the number of lower income workers living in the city has decreased, the

> traffic congestion has increased to astronomical levels as people have

> to commute long distances since the available of rentals in the city are

> low. Another state voted to make rent controls illegal since it was

> lowering the value of the real estate in the three cities that had rent

> controls resulting in a higher percentage of taxes being paid by

> non-rent controlled buildings in other cities as a portion of the

> state's revenue because the rent controlled cities property values were

> either decreasing or not going up as fast as the rest of the state. The

> law was changed even though the people in the rent controlled cities

> voted against changing the state law. The people in the rest of the

> state were getting screwed indirectly by rent control.

>

> It's only a matter of time before the US Supreme court rules that rent

> controls are the same as taking by eminent domain without just compensation.

>

> And the book I recommend has much better arguments and examples than I

> have presented. All lovers of freedom, freedom for all that is, will

> appreciate it.

>

> Steve

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

In order for the IRS to tell if " fraud " was involved, they have to audit the

person, but if they see kooky looking tax returns they will suspend the 3

year rule and audit as many years as they want. My neighbor just got

slammed with 10 years.

As far as Geirhardt is concerned, I was told he had a CPA and the CPA

screwed up.

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

Thy

He said he used Turbo Tax. There is an IRS statute of limitations - three

years unless fraud is involved.

Val

Posted by: " Nancie Barnett "

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and

%20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

deifspirit@... <aspenfairy1> aspenfairy1

Um yes he did. He paid everything that was required of him.

Plus, since he left his taxes to his CPA he didn't think he needed to check

them over since he trusted his tax advisor, obliviously a mistake, He did

not KNOW that he owed back taxes until the IRS notified him of such. Plus,

there is no statue of limitations for the IRS, they can go after as many

years as they want.

[Guest guest]

Typically I know that is correct. I suspect [but don't know] that in

this case they may have found out what we were offering and figured that

they could come out ahead by out bidding the first at a foreclosure

auction. I don't know what else could be their idea, unless it's just

to hold up things for the first in order to extract perhaps a few more

thousand dollars??? They have a flat all cash offer that for us is a

great deal, but we're not willing to go much higher than that. If it's

not a great deal we'll walk. But it is a very nice house in a very nice

location of houses that still sell for $40k or $50k more than we

offered. It would be a nice winter home; not nearly so large as the one

we have now [which is much too large]. And we DO NOT want a pool, which

we have now. Heck, FAIK the first may have decided that $40k or $50k

under market is too low. Or it may just be the overload that some

lenders have now, which makes it take months to settle sometimes.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%2\

0and%20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 10:33 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> I think the 2nd and 3rd are really in a weak position. Let them know

> that unless they settle for 10 cents on the dollar, you are going to

> walk away from the short sale (and plan to do exactly that), the bank is

> going to foreclose, and they will get Nada. You're offering them 10%

> which is 10% more than they will get if the 1st forecloses.

>

> Steve

>

> wrote:

> > In the Tampa vicinity housing sales have turned around but prices are

> > still very low. Repo's and short sales are available for less than 50%

> > of recent sales; often less than the appraised value of the lot alone.

> > AFAIK there's not much available in good financing though. We've been

> > trying to close on a short sale now for under 100k that sold for 200k a

> > couple of years ago; and in an upscale neighborhood where the typical

> > sales presently are still 50% higher than that. But there are a couple

> > of 2nd/3rd mortgages that are complicating things so my wife is

> ready to

> > invite the bank to take a flying leap.

> >

> > It would not be to flip, though. It would be a rental for a time and

> > then a winter Florida home for us. Our present home is much too large

> > for us, and she wants one in Ohio for the summer [her relatives live

> there].

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

True enough. Which is one of the reasons that " taxing the wealthy "

never has the intended effects [see: Yacht tax]. There are typically

LEGAL ways that an individual or a corporation can utilize to limit

confiscatory taxes; and they will be used. Moving out, of course,

remains an option.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%20B\

ig%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 10:35 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Not necessarily true... There are wealthy companies that are doing

> business

> on the USA soil and still are not paying their fair share in taxes. That

> attitude is pandering to the kidnappers. The USA has been taken

> hostage with

> that attitude and the end result is these mega rich corporations are not

> paying their fair share in taxes.

>

> -- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re: Re:

> Thy

>

>

>

>

> One reason to give the wealthy tax cuts is so they will keep their

> companies

> here in America ; )

[Guest guest]

I wasn't referring to AIG and the rest of the criminals. I thought you were

referring to the subject of roni's post which was welfare recipients and

thus when you made that statement, I was offended.

You obliviously did not get the Pont of roni's post....

-- Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re:

> Re: Thy

> > > > hypothyroidism

> > > > Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 8:56 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Really? Revenues increased considerably. What didn't work?

> > > >

> > > > Val

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > <hypothyroidism/message/46638

> _ylc=X3oDMTJxbGY

> > > >

>

yMTczBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDNDY

>

> > > > 2MzgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIzOTI2MDkxMw-->

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Posted by: " "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, right. We just tried the tax cuts for 8 years. IT DIDN'T WORK.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

We will muddle through, or we won't. I think we will; but we will be in

hock for trillions of dollars to prop up institutions that are in fact

failures and should have been allowed to fail. And I don't think the

trillions of dollars are going to have much of an effect as to whether

we muddle through or not. But the nature of the country may have been

fatally damaged by the social changes and massive unfunded printing of

trillions of dollars. I only see two ways to pay back the trillions:

Massive taxes and/or massive inflation. But there is a third way that

_might_ be tried: A dictatorship might use the situation to come to

power in an attempt to confiscate whatever you have left that they don't

already have. Don't forget: Hitler was elected to high office, and had

a heck of a lot of enthusiastic supporters early on. The Germans were

probably as intelligent and educated as we are, so don't say it can't

happen here. You'd find a heck of a lot of people on board if it were

couched in the proper " taking care of the poor " and " punishing the

greedy rich " language.

The situation in 1984, as far as government tossing money at the problem

wasn't even a blip on the present radar. No one mentioned trillions.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Cows%2C%20Geopolitics%2C%20and%\

20Big%20Business%20Re%3A%20%5Bhypothyroidism%5D%20Re%3A%20Thy>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Wed Apr 8, 2009 11:16 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> I've seen the current situation before in about 1984. The unemployment

> was worse, and the companies were all jumping on the bandwagon laying

> off people whether they needed to or not, just to drop their outlay.

> People were a whole lot less savvy then, and the banks were paying

> decent interest rates so the stocks weren't as scary. The

> administration can't afford to let the country fall. Don't worry. It

> will all come together. Americans have a very short attention span and

> all this doom and gloom is no fun to focus on.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business Re:

> Re: Thy

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 9:28 PM

>

> Once again: It's not a matter of need. It is a matter of owning what

> you earn, whether it's a lot or not.

>

>

> .