Credibility

[Guest guest]

Not to me - and fortunately not (for ANY of us) on lists like these. Here we

have blessed validation!

--

>From: " Kathy " <klr@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: credibility WAS Re: wake up pain

>Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:12:17 -0500

>

>Establishing credibility with teachers, etc., is ongoing and difficult IMO.

>If therapy or meds are successful, then that just ups the suspicion index

>that Mom is overprotective and the child is fine. I wonder if Dads go

>through this too, or is it just a Mom thing.

>

>I like Kel's doc who says his days are made up of trying to drag comments

>out of kids who are unhappy to be in his office but who otherwise seem to

>be

>fine. *He* finds me credible thankfully . . .

>

>I'm in my forties and Kel is my latish-in-life only child, facts which

>don't

>help me in the credibility department. Doesn't this just paint a picture

>of

>a hovering, over-protective Mom?!! :-)

>

>Kathy R., hovering over Indiana

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: " dana carvalho " <danacar@...>

>

> > One of the frustrating experiences I've had is trying to put some kind

>of

>plan in place in case Ava has a meltdown at school. People tend to nod and

>smile and they probably think " gee the mom's a tad intense, she's probably

>over protective and the kid is fine " . Then they SEE a meltdown and they

>are

>bewildered and overwhelmed if not outright shocked. Then they are more

>willing to take what I say at face value rather than second guessing me.

>She changed schools 3 times between 4th and 6th grade, which made it harder

>for me to establish credibility. Now that she's in middle school and has

>the same guidance counselor it is better.

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Kathy, Dana and all,

> Establishing credibility with teachers, etc., is ongoing and difficult

IMO.

> If therapy or meds are successful, then that just ups the suspicion index

> that Mom is overprotective and the child is fine

Another aha moment for me! I realize that we are starting to experience

this effect now as we head into year three of andra's OCD treatment. Of

course it's not the worst problem to have; when your child seems so

mainstream but isn't.

Lesli, SFBay

[Guest guest]

One of the things that is troublesome to me right now is having to defend my

credibility in court for the custody issue. Luckily for me, the one area of my

life where i have kept good records is where Ava is concerned. Since her Dad

got a copy of the records from the one doctor I had trouble with it is good that

I have kept all other records to combat those.

I had never bothered to get those records until now (we only went for one visit

and I could tell the doctor and his resident were jerks).

First, they lost the questionnaire the teachers filled out and had them do

another one. But both are included in the records so I guess they found the

first one. Then, the resident, who was presumably being graded, wrote up a

summary of our visit and paraphrased the 3 page evaluation done by March at

Duke 4 years earlier. But he " lost " the March evaluation because it's not

included in the records. To make matters worse he used March's exact words but

he made incorrect assumptions about them and even attributed some of them to me!

At one point he wrote that Ava was having no problems at school and so no

interventions were necessary (this was paraphrased from March and 4 years ago it

was true). But both teacher questionnaires indicated LOTS of problems. I had

given him notes from some of my teacher

conferences and he commented on the ones from 4th grade and called them " from a

recent conference " (Ava's in 7th grade). And he said a bunch more stupid stuff.

Dysfunctional this and that.

Of course all of this can be explained and " undone " but it will take up time and

be the focus in court, explaining away this nonsense, and time truly IS money

when you're dealing with lawyers. If you've ever been billed $40 per unanswered

phone call, well, all I can say is I can't wait until this is done.

Dana in NC

[Guest guest]

I've been through a lot of this stuff, Dana, and you have my complete

sympathy. As one lawyer friend told me (referring to my ex, who is a

narcissist maximus!) - " The law is not set up to deal with mental illness

effectively. " Oh boy is that true.

Good luck fighting the good fight!

--

>From: dana carvalho <danacar@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: credibility

>Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 06:52:45 -0500

>

>One of the things that is troublesome to me right now is having to defend

>my credibility in court for the custody issue. Luckily for me, the one

>area of my life where i have kept good records is where Ava is concerned.

>Since her Dad got a copy of the records from the one doctor I had trouble

>with it is good that I have kept all other records to combat those.

>I had never bothered to get those records until now (we only went for one

>visit and I could tell the doctor and his resident were jerks).

>

>First, they lost the questionnaire the teachers filled out and had them do

>another one. But both are included in the records so I guess they found

>the first one. Then, the resident, who was presumably being graded, wrote

>up a summary of our visit and paraphrased the 3 page evaluation done by

> March at Duke 4 years earlier. But he " lost " the March evaluation

>because it's not included in the records. To make matters worse he used

>March's exact words but he made incorrect assumptions about them and even

>attributed some of them to me! At one point he wrote that Ava was having

>no problems at school and so no interventions were necessary (this was

>paraphrased from March and 4 years ago it was true). But both teacher

>questionnaires indicated LOTS of problems. I had given him notes from some

>of my teacher

>conferences and he commented on the ones from 4th grade and called them

> " from a recent conference " (Ava's in 7th grade). And he said a bunch more

>stupid stuff. Dysfunctional this and that.

>

>Of course all of this can be explained and " undone " but it will take up

>time and be the focus in court, explaining away this nonsense, and time

>truly IS money when you're dealing with lawyers. If you've ever been

>billed $40 per unanswered phone call, well, all I can say is I can't wait

>until this is done.

>

>Dana in NC

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

HI Ava:

I cannot imagine how tough this must be. A couple of years ago I was

involved in a court case for work and it was very traumatic and I was only

a witness for the defence!!

Congratulations on keeping good records, this has won many a trial. I

sincerely hope that after this custody situation is settled that you and

Tim will be able to work things out without going to attorneys or the

courts. Soon Ava will be old enough to make her own decisions. Take care,

aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 06:52 AM 3/8/01 -0500, you wrote:

>One of the things that is troublesome to me right now is having to defend

my credibility in court for the custody issue. Luckily for me, the one

area of my life where i have kept good records is where Ava is concerned.

Since her Dad got a copy of the records from the one doctor I had trouble

with it is good that I have kept all other records to combat those.

>I had never bothered to get those records until now (we only went for one

visit and I could tell the doctor and his resident were jerks).

>

>First, they lost the questionnaire the teachers filled out and had them do

another one. But both are included in the records so I guess they found

the first one. Then, the resident, who was presumably being graded, wrote

up a summary of our visit and paraphrased the 3 page evaluation done by

March at Duke 4 years earlier. But he " lost " the March evaluation

because it's not included in the records. To make matters worse he used

March's exact words but he made incorrect assumptions about them and even

attributed some of them to me! At one point he wrote that Ava was having

no problems at school and so no interventions were necessary (this was

paraphrased from March and 4 years ago it was true). But both teacher

questionnaires indicated LOTS of problems. I had given him notes from some

of my teacher

>conferences and he commented on the ones from 4th grade and called them

" from a recent conference " (Ava's in 7th grade). And he said a bunch more

stupid stuff. Dysfunctional this and that.

>

>Of course all of this can be explained and " undone " but it will take up

time and be the focus in court, explaining away this nonsense, and time

truly IS money when you're dealing with lawyers. If you've ever been

billed $40 per unanswered phone call, well, all I can say is I can't wait

until this is done.

>

>Dana in NC

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> Why have you decided that the iodine docs are not credible????...

Why aren't the Laetrile docs credible? Why aren't the

Immuno-Argumentative docs credible? Why aren't the Krebiozen docs

credible? Why aren't the Anti-neoplastons docs credible? Why are not the

CanCel, Entelev, Cantron, Protocel, CSCT, Essaic, Garson, Hoxsey,

hydrazine sulfate, hyperoxygenation, Iscador, Kelley-,

Livingston-Wheeler, Macrobiotic, Pau D'Arco, Revici, Shark Cartilage, or

714X docs credible?

All of these therapies have been served by an enthusiastic coterie of

well educated practitioners, who wrote glowing articles and opinion

pieces, supported by countless testimonials by people whose lives had

been saved or transformed.

What they all lack is the support of any rigorous scientific study.

Contrary to what Catharine said, many alternative treatments have been

tested and reported in peer reviewed literature, especially since the

NIH has established the National Center for Complementary and

Alternative Medicine. To date, they have completed over 234 clinical

trials, not to mention the laboratory studies and animal models. In

addition, many other studies have been funded outside the alternative

medical Center, including the recent discoveries about vitamin D.

You would think that if a large dose of iodine had any potency as a cure

for breast cancer, it would have warranted some sort of trial by now.

Instead, all we find is a test below the 1 mg level for relief of

fibrocystic breast pain, not cancer. In fact, epidemiological studies

around the world have shown that when the intake of iodine is more than

about four times the RDA, it correlates with an increase in Hashimoto's

and thyroid cancer. They don't even have a reasonable theory for how it

could work.

So, if iodine one day is shown to cure breast cancer, then the iodine

docs will be hailed as farsighted pioneers. Until that happens, they

will continue to be counted among the physicians that prey on the fears

of desperate people by selling them unproven remedies.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

All medical treatments , allopathic and otherwise, " does " help 'some', while

it doesn't help others (all medical treatments are not one size fits

all). THis statement pretty much confirms that alternative treatments are

trial and error, the same as standard treatments.

mse

On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Sam <k9gang@...> wrote:

> " Curing " anything especially cancer is not financially beneficial to

> allopathetic medicine. Sure seems like allopathetic treatments for

> treating cancers is the legal way doctors kill people. My mother was

> an example. Current allopathetic breast cancer research uses " cell

> lines " in their research. Unfortunately, it has recently been

> discovered that the cell lines being used (for the past 2 plus

> decades) are from melanoma, NOT breast cancer. Good news for melanoma

> research, but not for breast cancer research.

> http://articlesofhealth.blogspot.com/2008/09/fraud-of-breast-cancer-

>

research.html<http://articlesofhealth.blogspot.com/2008/09/fraud-of-breast-cance\

r-research.html>

>

> Funny you should mention laetrile because it " does " help 'some',

> while it doesn't help others (alternative breast cancer treatment is

> not one-size-fits-all). Based only on my own experience, I simply do

> NOT trust " ANY " allopathetic practitioner because I have been

> medically raped by allopathetic medicine and practices more than

> once. ...and I am one of multitudes...

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Why have you decided that the iodine docs are not credible????...

> >

> > Why aren't the Laetrile docs credible? Why aren't the

> > Immuno-Argumentative docs credible? Why aren't the Krebiozen docs

> > credible? Why aren't the Anti-neoplastons docs credible? Why are

> not the

> > CanCel, Entelev, Cantron, Protocel, CSCT, Essaic, Garson, Hoxsey,

> > hydrazine sulfate, hyperoxygenation, Iscador, Kelley-,

> > Livingston-Wheeler, Macrobiotic, Pau D'Arco, Revici, Shark

> Cartilage, or

> > 714X docs credible?

> >

> > All of these therapies have been served by an enthusiastic coterie

> of

> > well educated practitioners, who wrote glowing articles and opinion

> > pieces, supported by countless testimonials by people whose lives

> had

> > been saved or transformed.

> >

> > What they all lack is the support of any rigorous scientific study.

> > Contrary to what Catharine said, many alternative treatments have

> been

> > tested and reported in peer reviewed literature, especially since

> the

> > NIH has established the National Center for Complementary and

> > Alternative Medicine. To date, they have completed over 234

> clinical

> > trials, not to mention the laboratory studies and animal models. In

> > addition, many other studies have been funded outside the

> alternative

> > medical Center, including the recent discoveries about vitamin D.

> >

> > You would think that if a large dose of iodine had any potency as a

> cure

> > for breast cancer, it would have warranted some sort of trial by

> now.

> > Instead, all we find is a test below the 1 mg level for relief of

> > fibrocystic breast pain, not cancer. In fact, epidemiological

> studies

> > around the world have shown that when the intake of iodine is more

> than

> > about four times the RDA, it correlates with an increase in

> Hashimoto's

> > and thyroid cancer. They don't even have a reasonable theory for

> how it

> > could work.

> >

> > So, if iodine one day is shown to cure breast cancer, then the

> iodine

> > docs will be hailed as farsighted pioneers. Until that happens,

> they

> > will continue to be counted among the physicians that prey on the

> fears

> > of desperate people by selling them unproven remedies.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, salt reduction hasn't helped me either. I am on maxiumum beta

blocker Tenormin (atenolol) of 100mg for BP and for minor arrythmia.

Without a BB, that blasted " heart awareness " is terrifying, though I

understand I am one of the lucky ones in that my beat only misbehaves about

100 times a day. Holter monitor and heart testing showing the irregular

beats to be within normal range, but terrifying none the less because I can

feel them! I am going to ask my doc about the Toprol XL and see if I can

stop these fluid pills.

mse

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Steve <dudescholar4@...> wrote:

> I weighed 210 lbs at the time and lowered my weight to 170 which

> eliminated the need for blood pressure meds. (I tried excluding salt

> then two but gave up at 8 weeks since it didn't affect blood pressure in

> me.) A dozen or so years later, I found a need to use medication after

> my blood pressure was measured at 210/160 and ended up on different

> options. First a calcium channel blocker and later a combination of

> beta blocker and ACE Inhibitor. Now, this beta blocker is the only

> blood pressure med that lowers mortality in high blood pressure

> individuals below otherwise healthy people without high blood pressure

> problems. Consequently, I prefer it - Toprol XL. The studies used 200

> mg and I used only 100 or so not exactly comparable. ACE inhibitors

> have some kidney protecting effect and I have a non-optimum eGFR.

>

> Steve

>

> MSE wrote:

> > Very lucky for both of you. I don't have the same experience (further

> > proof that we are all chemically different) as have other members of my

> > family who tried these. Steve, why did you stop using them? Didn't

> they

> > work to lower the pressure for you? I haven't taken my pressure since

> > starting them. Pressure was so high every time I took it I got

> extremely

> > overwrought at the numbers, so now the doc says just wait til I'm b ack

> in

> > her office so I don't GIVE myself a stroke worrying about the numbers.

> > Last reading was 190/110.

> >

> > mse

> >

> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Steve <dudescholar4@...>

> wrote:

> >

> >> I took diuretics for a while (hydrochlorothiazide) many years ago and

> >> noticed no change in bathroom trips.

> >>

> >> Steve

> >>

> >> MSE wrote:

> >>> steve, as a person who has great difficulty controlling high BP, I can

> >> tell

> >>> you that the first chance i get, i will stop the newly prescribed fluid

> >>> pills. what a miserable way to live, in the bathroom every hour. i

> take

> >> 3

> >>> kinds of bp meds, and no side effect of the other two every was as

> >> miserable

> >>> as this.

> >>>

> >>> IMHO most patients refuse the fluid pills or come back after the

> initial

> >>> treatment with them and request a change to something else. They are

> >>> miserable.

> >>>

> >>> So, I don't know why we'd be in such a hurry to accuse the doc when the

> >>> patients are pretty much dictating (as I will be next week) what they

> >> want

> >>> to take.

> >>>

> >>> mse

> >>>

> >>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Steve <dudescholar4@...>

> >> wrote:

> >>>> wrote:

> >>>>> ALL of the discredited treatments Chuck quote did help " some " ; at

> least

> >>>>> as far as the patients and doctors could tell.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Do you know why a medicine or treatment that helps " some " becomes

> >>>>> discredited? It's because once double blind studies are done the

> >>>>> results fall to chance or placebo. And sometimes below placebo. If

> >>>>> laetrile is no more effective than a sugar pill then allopathic

> >>>>> practitioners aren't going to be enthusiastic about using it. If

> they

> >>>>> did they would lose their licenses and be sued for malpractice.

> >>>> I have found that allopathic medicine is quick to point out

> >>>> deficiencies, ostensibly, in non-orthodox treatment while failing to

> >>>> look critically at orthodox treatments. For example:

> >>>>

> >>>> Antidepressants No Better Than Placebo?

> >>>> Study Shows Only Most Depressed Patients Benefit; Expert Is Critical

> of

> >>>> Study's Method

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>

>

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20080227/antidepressants-no-better-than-\

placebo

> >>>> Yet, how many people on THIS or related thyroid lists have been

> >>>> recommend antidepressants to treat the signs of low thyroid (or any

> >>>> related hormone problems - low testosterone in males, etc)? This

> study

> >>>> has had little impact on the rampant antidepressant promotions and

> >>>> prescribing practices, even thought it shows that billions of dollars

> >>>> are wasted profiting least of all the patients.

> >>>>

> >>>> Here's another example:

> >>>>

> >>>> NHLBI Study Finds Traditional Diuretics Better

> >>>> Than Newer Medicines for Treating Hypertension

> >>>> http://allhat.uth.tmc.edu/News/NHLBIDiureticsBetter.aspx?SubSite=Med

> >>>>

> >>>> This was a rather solid study but prescribing practices still highly

> >>>> favor newer and more expensive drugs with a lot less research and

> >>>> practice behind them.

> >>>>

> >>>> This list can go on and on.

> >>>>

> >>>> My theory is that doctors don't do what's best for their patients

> >>>> because of a number of reasons but one in particular is that to move

> out

> >>>> side the " usual and customer " , no matter how poorly the current

> >>>> outcomes, is not something most doctors are willing to risk. they'd

> >>>> rather treat patients poorly. In fact, ignorance of the best

> treatments

> >>>> has no downside for medical incomes because competition is highly

> >>>> restricted and new entrants into the medicine are controlled to

> prevent

> >>>> natural economics from driving me prices down to true value.

> >>>>

> >>>> --

> >>>>

> >>>> Steve - dudescholar4@...

> >>

> >> --

> >>

> >> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gracia , I visited the Armour website and read the patient and doctor

sections. There are warnings there " Hypothyroidism—Therapy is usually

instituted using low doses, with increments which depend on the

cardiovascular status of the patient. " Sex hormones are proven to cause

stroke. I would never suggest beginning those meds now to someone, until

that person had stable/normal BP.

FYI - I've been on sex hormoes for 6 yrs now without high BP, but when

Armour was introduced back in July, the BP began to climb. GO

FIGURE! People's experiences keep proving that we are all different.

mse

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Steve <dudescholar4@...> wrote:

>

>

> Gracia wrote:

> > Armour thyroid and other hormones lower BP very effectively.

> > Gracia

>

> Proof, real proof, or hearsay? I'm not interested in the " he says, she

> says " web sites without research when I'm asking for " proof " .

>

>

> I've found that cortisol lowers my blood pressure and heart rate but

> that is because it has lowered the body's need to rely on adrenalin.

> Caffeine does exactly the same thing, contrary to most people's

> experiences, caffeine would lower my pulse rate and blood pressure but

> provide NO pick-me-up stimulation.

>

> I don't think you will find research that shows that under certain

> conditions that cortisol OR caffeine lowers heart rate and blood pressure.

>

> I would expect that Chuck will find that weird with no scientific

> explanation exactly my my regular doctors who's primary response to my

> caffeine dilemma/results was that it was " unique " . Doctors to a high

> degree seem to treat 'statistics', not actual clinical results in

> patients. That's why I no longer a patient, but a consumer of medical

> resources/services.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

you might look on http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com for better info.

dosing Armour to TSH weill leave you undertreated and will raise BP.

look at Hormone Solutions by Thierry Hertoghe MD.

never heard that sex hormones are a cause of strokes! very scary for

20yos!

Gracia

Gracia , I visited the Armour website and read the patient and doctor

sections. There are warnings there " Hypothyroidism-Therapy is usually

instituted using low doses, with increments which depend on the

cardiovascular status of the patient. " Sex hormones are proven to cause

stroke. I would never suggest beginning those meds now to someone, until

that person had stable/normal BP.

FYI - I've been on sex hormoes for 6 yrs now without high BP, but when

Armour was introduced back in July, the BP began to climb. GO

FIGURE! People's experiences keep proving that we are all different.

mse

[Guest guest]

real salt is used on iodine group to lower BP.

http://www.celticseasalt.com

or http://www.realsalt.com

gracia

Yeah, salt reduction hasn't helped me either. I am on maxiumum beta

blocker Tenormin (atenolol) of 100mg for BP and for minor arrythmia.

Without a BB, that blasted " heart awareness " is terrifying, though I

understand I am one of the lucky ones in that my beat only misbehaves about

100 times a day. Holter monitor and heart testing showing the irregular

beats to be within normal range, but terrifying none the less because I can

feel them! I am going to ask my doc about the Toprol XL and see if I can

stop these fluid pills.

mse

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7:59 PM

[Guest guest]

I really can't believe your first sentence. It just doesn't make sense.

You aren't listening to what I said, as I began Armour (with Synthroid) I

had fine BP. All the years I took Synthroid my BP under control. Keeping

my T4 intake the same, we have been increasing Armour and doing away with

Synthroid - little by little - but never letting my T4 be at a level lower

than when we started. The MORE Armour I get, the higher my BP goes.

I'm probably stopping the Armour - to test the BP issue. Besides, I'm not

feeling any better, any different than I did on Synthroid. I only asked for

the Armour to see if this glorious tranformation I've heard about was true.

I 've read some posts such as " I didn't know how unwell I felt, til I

actually go onto Armour " just aren't so. I felt fine on Synthroid AND

didn't have this BP problem. Synthroid appears to be much more reliable a

product.

I thank you for your posts, but you seem not to care that I am obviously

different than you, and what works for you isn't necessarily the right thing

for me. I fear for your health and welfare with such over the top overuse

of hormones of all kinds. As I recall, you (like I) are no youngster - and

even youngsters don't need the levels at which you dose yourself. It

appears not to be a matter of need for your but how you want to dose. I

think I would avoid any doc who allows overdosing like this.

Turns out you are wrong about the adrenal issues. I had 48 hour spit test

and am at middle range to slightly above on all hours checked. We did this

twice - about 6 months apart. Nothing wrong there - except that I am

apparently very sensitive to T3 which can cause the effects I noted below.

regards

mse

I will find the right dosage in exactly the same way as most people do, by

trial and error and by how I feel

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

>

> too low a dose of Armour will raise BP--enough Armour will lower BP.

> severe anxiety and heart issues are adrenal.

> I use the highest doses of sex hormones allowed. 5mg estradiol in olive

> oil, 250mg progesterone cream, 20mg testosterone gel I am quite sure I

> would have a stroke without them. MY BP went to 260 once in the doc's

> office, b4 hormones. I really recommend Hertoghe's book.

> Gracia

>

>

>

>

> My doc doesn't dose my Armour by TSH - in fact, until 3 weeks ago, she

> never

> even tested my Free's on Armour. We've been going up on Armour and slowly

> weaning from Synthroid, as I have had trouble in the past with T3 causing

> severe anxiety and heart issues.

>

> You shouldn't make such assumptions about my allo doc - very unfair of

> you,

> very closed minded of you.

>

> As regards sex hormones and stroke - you need to read more, as you have

> suggested to us. Youngsters shouldn't be surprised, as their BCP insert no

> doubt has the.....

> http://www.strokeassociation.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4716

> and older women HAVE to know by now with all the info out there....

> http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=89055

> and

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2005/jan/07/health.medicineandhealth1

> and on and on and on.

>

> mse

>

>

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[Guest guest]

So using this STOPS the heart awareness!!!! Bless you, if this works for

me, I'll be eternally grateful. I was using CoQ10, which was VERY

effective, but developed severe light sensitivity and had to stop.

Tks for site - I'll visit

mse

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Steve <dudescholar4@...> wrote:

> It has been my experience being very active at one time on the

> peoplewithpvcs list that magnesium supplementation was

> frequently an effective solution for more than half the people there

> that gave it a try. Most of the discussion ended up being what type and

> how much. Personally, I take magnesium citrate which is reported to be

> well absorbed. It is 16% magnesium so the capsules I get have 1000 mg

> of magnesium citrate in them but the advertised quantity of magnesium

> per capsule is 160 mg. I take two in the morning and two in the evening

> for a total of 640 mg/day of magnesium. If magnesium is going to be

> effective for you, it usually happens in a few days, often the first

> day. One quick way to get some magnesium citrate is to get a bottle of

> flavored magnesium in water bottled for use to address constipation.

> The last time I looked at the ingredients in a grocery store, there were

> 19 grams of magnesium citrate per 8 oz bottle so only a small amount

> would be necessary to try since the entire bottle would cause everything

> to " pass " through you in rather quick form.

>

> Steve

>

> MSE wrote:

> > Yeah, salt reduction hasn't helped me either. I am on maxiumum beta

> > blocker Tenormin (atenolol) of 100mg for BP and for minor arrythmia.

> > Without a BB, that blasted " heart awareness " is terrifying, though I

> > understand I am one of the lucky ones in that my beat only misbehaves

> about

> > 100 times a day. Holter monitor and heart testing showing the irregular

> > beats to be within normal range, but terrifying none the less because I

> can

> > feel them! I am going to ask my doc about the Toprol XL and see if I can

> > stop these fluid pills.

> >

> > mse

> >

> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Steve <dudescholar4@...>

> wrote:

> >

> >> I weighed 210 lbs at the time and lowered my weight to 170 which

> >> eliminated the need for blood pressure meds. (I tried excluding salt

> >> then two but gave up at 8 weeks since it didn't affect blood pressure in

> >> me.) A dozen or so years later, I found a need to use medication after

> >> my blood pressure was measured at 210/160 and ended up on different

> >> options. First a calcium channel blocker and later a combination of

> >> beta blocker and ACE Inhibitor. Now, this beta blocker is the only

> >> blood pressure med that lowers mortality in high blood pressure

> >> individuals below otherwise healthy people without high blood pressure

> >> problems. Consequently, I prefer it - Toprol XL. The studies used 200

> >> mg and I used only 100 or so not exactly comparable. ACE inhibitors

> >> have some kidney protecting effect and I have a non-optimum eGFR.

> >>

> >> Steve

> >>

> >> MSE wrote:

> >>> Very lucky for both of you. I don't have the same experience (further

> >>> proof that we are all chemically different) as have other members of my

> >>> family who tried these. Steve, why did you stop using them? Didn't

> >> they

> >>> work to lower the pressure for you? I haven't taken my pressure since

> >>> starting them. Pressure was so high every time I took it I got

> >> extremely

> >>> overwrought at the numbers, so now the doc says just wait til I'm b ack

> >> in

> >>> her office so I don't GIVE myself a stroke worrying about the numbers.

> >>> Last reading was 190/110.

> >>>

> >>> mse

> >>>

> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Steve <dudescholar4@...>

> >> wrote:

> >>>> I took diuretics for a while (hydrochlorothiazide) many years ago and

> >>>> noticed no change in bathroom trips.

> >>>>

> >>>> Steve

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

> " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

> to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

You wrote:

>

> ...What do you think a doctor's response should be to these symptoms? A

> doctor on the cruse I was on (life extension foundation physician), my

> general and my cardio all have no useful input or even any insight.

>

Most of the effects of caffeine come from blocking adenosine receptors

or by causing cAMP to build up. The latter is the effect that mimics

adrenaline. Since you clearly do not use it enough to have resistance,

your symptoms must come from caffeine's effects on other drugs. Were you

taking anything else that might have these effects as an overdose?

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Being " slightly above " cortisol ranges is not a " nothing wrong there "

situation. Did it not occur to you that your heart and anxiety issues

could be high cortisol?

Marla

> Turns out you are wrong about the adrenal issues. I had 48 hour

spit test

> and am at middle range to slightly above on all hours checked. We

did this

> twice - about 6 months apart. Nothing wrong there - except that I am

> apparently very sensitive to T3 which can cause the effects I noted

below.

>

[Guest guest]

Be aware [as Steve mentioned] that magnesium can act as a laxative. My

system seems to be particularly sensitive to it.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " MSE " knockneed@...

> <mailto:knockneed@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Credibility>

> knockneed <knockneed>

>

>

> Wed Dec 3, 2008 10:14 am (PST)

>

> So using this STOPS the heart awareness!!!

> ! Bless you, if this works for

> me, I'll be eternally grateful. I was using CoQ10, which was VERY

> effective, but developed severe light sensitivity and had to stop.

> Tks for site - I'll visit

> mse