Re: mooshy cultured veggies

[Guest guest]

>

>

> My latest batch is not crunchy again. What am I doing wrong? Too

much

> whey? too much brine (they are very wet)? too much kale?

>

> I only left them two days this time, instead of 10. Please help me

get

> some crunch into my life!

>

> Thank you,

> Millie

>

Why are you using whey at all? Traditional ferments used just salt

or if you are worried, try adding a TBSP of vinegar or of the

previous batch. Whey is NOT traditional in pickles.

Connie

[Guest guest]

A lot of people have had mushy vegies when they

use whey. Good reason to avoid using it. Plus

you don't need it. I think Sally used it to avoid

alcohol in the fruit ferments, and probably because

no one was doing much fermenting in the 70's when

the book was originally written. If your mix has

some salt and maybe a dash of vinegar or other

acid (more acid if you don't use so much salt), then

it will ferment nicely. If you aren't using greens,

you can add a " starter " of some kraut juice from

the last batch. Lactobacilli are everywhere though,

and I haven't found that adding a starter makes

much difference for kraut or kimchi. I do use

kefir grains for making beer, because I like

the kefir yeast.

The best way to have crunchy vegies (esp. cucumbers)

is to SALT them first. You salt them to draw out the

water ... they get wilty. Then rinse off the salt. This

seems non-intuitive, since wilty isn't crunchy! But

if you draw the water out of the cells, then when

they expand, as they ferment, the cell walls don't

break and you get a crunchier result.

You can also do this with greens by setting the

greens out in the sun and letting them wilt some.

For commercial pickles they use sodium or calcium

hydroxide (lye or lime, I think?) but those are

very alkali, and won't work well with a lactoferment.

On Jan 17, 2008 9:05 AM, mk4201 <moozy21@...> wrote:

>

> My latest batch is not crunchy again. What am I doing wrong? Too much

> whey? too much brine (they are very wet)? too much kale?

>

> I only left them two days this time, instead of 10. Please help me get

> some crunch into my life!

>

> Thank you,

> Millie

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just read somewhere that lacto-fermentation happens in three stages

characterized by bacteria unique to each stage. So, using a starter

from a previous batch short circuits the progression, resulting in a

less crunchy product.

When I was a kid, we used grape leaves (a source of alum) to make our

pickles crisper.

Barry

>

>

> My latest batch is not crunchy again. What am I doing wrong? Too much

> whey? too much brine (they are very wet)? too much kale?

[Guest guest]

Here it is. " Floral succession " - don't short-circuit it for

gourmet-level kraut.

http://www.jlindquist.net/generalmicro/324sauerkraut.html

- Barry

[Guest guest]

Hi Barry,

Thanks very much for that info. I had wondered why two batches of my

pickled cukes (made in the summer) were crunchy and the third was mushy.

Now I know that, tempting as it may be, re-using leftover whey/brine isn't a

good idea :-(

and the K9's

-----

>I just read somewhere that lacto-fermentation happens in three stages

> characterized by bacteria unique to each stage. So, using a starter

> from a previous batch short circuits the progression, resulting in a

> less crunchy product.

[Guest guest]

A couple other ideas for crunchy pickles:

-make sure you don't use cukes that are overly large (the ones that

hide in the leaves during the hottest most prolific part of the season,

they don't ferment as well)

-put a little fresh onion slices in the jar

-put a hunk of horseradish root in the jar

-top the cukes with folded horseradish leaves or raspberry leaves in

the jar

One or more of these suggestions will make a big difference.

Happy crunching,

Sharon

Sharon A. Kane

Food As Medicine

www.sanctuary-healing.com

>

> Hi Barry,

>

> Thanks very much for that info. I had wondered why two batches of my

> pickled cukes (made in the summer) were crunchy and the third was

mushy.

> Now I know that, tempting as it may be, re-using leftover whey/brine

isn't a

> good idea :-(

>

> and the K9's

> -----

> >I just read somewhere that lacto-fermentation happens in three stages

> > characterized by bacteria unique to each stage. So, using a starter

> > from a previous batch short circuits the progression, resulting in a

> > less crunchy product.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

Many thanks! Mea culpa for using some large cukes - they always seem to get

away from me.....

I like the hint about using raspberry leaves. I have a lot of wild

raspberries growing around the perimeter :-)

Next time, I shall try all of your recommendations :-)

Thanks again,

and the K9's

-----

>A couple other ideas for crunchy pickles:

>

> -make sure you don't use cukes that are overly large (the ones that

> hide in the leaves during the hottest most prolific part of the season,

> they don't ferment as well)

>

> -put a little fresh onion slices in the jar

>

> -put a hunk of horseradish root in the jar

>

> -top the cukes with folded horseradish leaves or raspberry leaves in

> the jar

>

> One or more of these suggestions will make a big difference.