Re: fresh v wilted cabbage

[Guest guest]

Like many things it's a matter of personal preference, and what you are using it

for. It sounds like you identified your own and answered your own question.

Personally, I much much prefer JUICY fresh cabbage for kraut and kimchi, as I do

not like to add water to mine, and I like it juicy. This year I grew my own

cabbage and just made my first batch of kimchi. The cabbage was bursting with

juice as I shredded it. Oh, and I harvested my cabbage a few weeks ago but was

delayed in making my kimchi, and it was still soooo juicy, and great flavor (for

cabbage that is). Very gratifying, I can tell it's going to be my best kimchi

ever, by far, in over ten years of making it.

~Tonio

fresh v wilted cabbage

I've been reading 's web pages on making sauerkraut and I notice

that she is very keen on wilting the cabbage first. I've just started my

second batch of sauerkraut and since I'm still a newbie I read all my

sources first. Sandor Kratz (from memory) is very keen on v fresh

cabbage so that it's as juicy as possible. The directions in Keeping

Food Fresh are divided. At least one suggests wilting the cabbage first

(so that it is easier later to make Yugoslavian cabbage wraps on the

same lines as dolmas).

I've started the sauerkraut now but I'd be grateful for anyone's

thoughts to guide me next time. Wilted cabbage is obviously much easier

to come by than ultra fresh but on the other hand the first batch I

tried to make using cabbage from my standard greengrocer was so unjuicy

it was hard to get anything out of it.

The kimchi directions on 's site are great. Just as she says,

they are detailed enough to guide the most complete novice (ie me) and I

think I am starting to feel inspired to make some -- which will thrill

my husband who loves the kraut

Sally

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[Guest guest]

I should probably clarify:

The cabbage I buy is rather fresh. I wilt it *on purpose* using

salt/vinegar, because wilting it first makes crunchier kraut.

That is not the same as buying " old " cabbage.

However, on an anthropological note, when I go to the

Korean store, they often let their greens wilt, rather then keeping

them crispy as " western " stores do. This I found rather strange, til

I realized that the first step in a lot of traditonal fermented vegies is

" put the greens out in the sun to wilt them " ...

For western recipes, you can buy chemicals (Sodium hydroxide, aka lye)

to leach water from vegies before fermenting. This is done for pickles

and maraschino cherries. It makes them crispier. I did try that, but salting

or wilting the vegies is easier.

Many people just " pound " the cabbage first, which does a similar

thing to salting it. I did that too. It was just more work, and messier.

Fresh, juicy cabbage works great though. Once you salt it, it *will* wilt

down and compress, and make lots of juice.

So my writup about " wilting " is mainly to make it easier to pack into

jars. I've read about many other traditional ways of doing this. The bottom

line is: if you chop fresh cabbage and just put it in a jar, it will be 70% air.

You need to get rid of the air to make a decent jar of kraut, and also

to avoid potential mold issues.

How do you get rid of the air? Pound it, or let it wilt? Both work just fine.

If you feel like pounding it, you'll get extra muscles. If you lack

time or energy, let it wilt (salt and vinegar expedite this, but some

cultures just use sunlight ... which is rare in our parts, but common

elsewhere).

Our climate is very similar, I think, to Korea's. There

they often coat the leaves with a mix of pepper, salt, vinegar and

boiled starch, to make a thick paste. This ensures that the cabbage

leaves ferment and don't mold, with or without sunlight. The kimchi

is buried in jars underground, but the paste protects against mold,

even on some kimchi's that don't have any liquid surrounding them.

I expect the mix they use really skews the bacterial growth

to certain microbes ... salt, pepper, acid all have a huge effect

this way. The thick paste " sticks " to the leaves, and each leaf

is coated.

The Koreans also use seafood in most of their mixes. Seafood

contains iodine, which also likely skews the ferment in a certain

direction (though I have no data on what direction that is, exactly).

My kimchi usually contains pulverized shrimp or anchovies, though

I don't add it to my kraut because my Germanic ancestors probably

didn't. However, I would note that the first kraut-makers likely learned

the craft from Mongolian kimchi-makers ... and kimchi-makers

learned to add " pepper " from the Spanish conquistadores who learned

about " pepper " from the New World.

Are we confused enough yet? I have reason to believe

that my own blood-line includes German, Mongolian, Scotch,

American Indian. And my daily food reflects the same, when

I think about it. It's an interesting study, in any case

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Eva family <bobsallyeva@...> wrote:

> I've been reading 's web pages on making sauerkraut and I notice

> that she is very keen on wilting the cabbage first. I've just started my

> second batch of sauerkraut and since I'm still a newbie I read all my

> sources first. Sandor Kratz (from memory) is very keen on v fresh

> cabbage so that it's as juicy as possible. The directions in Keeping

> Food Fresh are divided. At least one suggests wilting the cabbage first

> (so that it is easier later to make Yugoslavian cabbage wraps on the

> same lines as dolmas).

>

> I've started the sauerkraut now but I'd be grateful for anyone's

> thoughts to guide me next time. Wilted cabbage is obviously much easier

> to come by than ultra fresh but on the other hand the first batch I

> tried to make using cabbage from my standard greengrocer was so unjuicy

> it was hard to get anything out of it.

>

> The kimchi directions on 's site are great. Just as she says,

> they are detailed enough to guide the most complete novice (ie me) and I

> think I am starting to feel inspired to make some -- which will thrill

> my husband who loves the kraut

>

> Sally

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>