Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 IF it is bad to eat, it will smell bad and taste worse! Ellis Hein Ferment anything? I have mostly only been doing cabbage or beets or carrots. But a friend who I introduced this idea of fermenting foods has been " experimenting " with everything under the sun. She loves it. I do not have any fermenting books, nor does this friend. Is it OK to experiment... I won't end up making some wierd unhealthy ferment? Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 In general, ferments go in one of two directions: acidic and alkaline. The acidic ferments smell ... acidic. You can test that with PH paper too. In general, there are few bacteria that are toxic to humans that survive in acid, so even if the ferment had bad stuff to begin with, it's likely dead by the time you eat it. Vegetables generally want to make acidic ferments, esp. the ones with high nitrate content and low sugar content. Adding some salt and acid, or certain spices, will push them even more in that direction. Alkaline ferments get really stinky, as in, garbage can stinky. Some alkaline ferments are nonetheless good to eat and even prized, but it's a more dangerous proposition to make them right. Personally I have not made any, and the ones I've tasted really did taste nasty so I'm not tempted. The third type is alcoholic ferments. These produce ethanol, which, like acid, kills the toxic bacteria pretty well. Fruits and high-starch vegetables tend to want to make beer or wine. As for other kinds of toxicity, the ones I've heard about mainly involve fish. For which reason I don't ferment fish ... I do make pickled fish, but basically I pour a vinegar solution over raw fish, which is safe (like pickled herring). The fish is frozen, so parasites aren't a concern in that case either. And mold can be very toxic ... most of it isn't (like the mold on brie!) but the ones that are toxic can be very bad. So avoid eating mold. The classic " food poisoning " toxins though are from clostridium and listeria. Neither one is very good at competing with other bacteria, and clostridium is quite salt/acid sensitive. So they tend to grow in places that are " mostly " sterile, like raw garlic cloves in oil, or incorrectly canned green beans, or poorly handled cooked leftovers. I tried looking for cases of botulism involving ferments, and they do exist, but again, only for fermented fish or rotting whales. On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 4:29 AM, walshseven <walshgam@...> wrote: > I have mostly only been doing cabbage or beets or carrots. But a friend who > I introduced this idea of fermenting foods has been " experimenting " with > everything under the sun. She loves it. I do not have any fermenting books, > nor does this friend. Is it OK to experiment... I won't end up making some > wierd unhealthy ferment? > > Ann > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks for this informative thread! I just uncorked a whole batch of beets/carrots/ginger/napa cabbage last night. I was experimenting with (2 weeks fermentation) just using saurkraut juice as a " starter " . I'd made a batch with Caldwell starter that was SO good, and I wondered if I could avoid the expense of pre-packaged starter. Anyway. It tastes slightly fizzy, and not as good as the Caldwells batch--but more concerning, I had to take off a big scum of mold from the top, and I'm concerned that some of the mold ended up getting introduced into the rest of the ferment. Should I be concerned about us eating any mold spores that are lurking?? Thanks! --Sarabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks for this informative thread! I just uncorked a whole batch of beets/carrots/ginger/napa cabbage last night. I was experimenting with (2 weeks fermentation) just using saurkraut juice as a " starter " . I'd made a batch with Caldwell starter that was SO good, and I wondered if I could avoid the expense of pre-packaged starter. Anyway. It tastes slightly fizzy, and not as good as the Caldwells batch--but more concerning, I had to take off a big scum of mold from the top, and I'm concerned that some of the mold ended up getting introduced into the rest of the ferment. Should I be concerned about us eating any mold spores that are lurking?? Thanks! --Sarabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Anything with beets/carrots is going to want to go fizzy (yeast) and potentially moldy if there isn't enough salt or acid in the batch. Using a probiotic starter might overcome that, but kraut juice might not. As for eating a batch with mold on it: I typically don't, because the fact the mold *could* grow means the chemistry isn't right, in my opinion. Usually the batch doesn't smell right either. On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Sarabeth <sara@...> wrote: > Thanks for this informative thread! > > I just uncorked a whole batch of beets/carrots/ginger/napa cabbage last > night. I was experimenting with (2 weeks fermentation) just using saurkraut > juice as a " starter " . I'd made a batch with Caldwell starter that was SO > good, and I wondered if I could avoid the expense of pre-packaged starter. > > Anyway. It tastes slightly fizzy, and not as good as the Caldwells > batch--but more concerning, I had to take off a big scum of mold from the > top, and I'm concerned that some of the mold ended up getting introduced > into the rest of the ferment. > > Should I be concerned about us eating any mold spores that are lurking?? > > Thanks! > --Sarabeth > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 We innoculate those vegetables with a propriatary blend of eight beneficial bacteria and blue-green algae. Usually they turn out fine, but even so, once in a while a jar goes moldy. Those moldy ferments go to the compost where they can feed my garden next season. (not a waste). So, no I would not eat a moldy batch. Ellis ----- Original Message ----- From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thank you . About the molds, if there is mold on the top of a fermented veggie do you toss the whole thing out or just scrape the moldy part off? Ann --- In nutrition , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I made some fabulous " pickles " by pouring a hot vinegar/salt/water mixture over raw vegetables, then sealing and letting cure in the fridge for 3 months. I have been working on changing to a raw diet and while not strictly raw, this was a great way to make veggies that aren't generally palatable raw edible. I was married to an Afghani for many years and this is how they make " tur-shee " (pickles). Even though the jars sealed, I decided to keep them in the refrigerator (once they cooled enough), so I didn't have to worry how good/bad a job I did. I did asparagus spears with lavendar, young okra with garlic, brussels sprouts with jalapeno and garlic, and the small sweet chiles that Costco sells in bulk with garlic. All of it was terrific -- the brussels sprouts are really hot, so one can be diced and added to give some heat to salads and raw soups. The peppers made a very colorful Christmas gift for friends. The okra was my favorite -- perfectly crisp! The garlic was fabulous -- next time I'm going to make a whole jar of that! BTW, I rinse the pickles well so that they aren't so acidic. Pam McClure Redwood City, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 > Anyway. It tastes slightly fizzy, and not as good as the Caldwells batch--but more concerning, I had to take off a big scum of mold from the top, and I'm concerned that some of the mold ended up getting introduced into the rest of the ferment. > > Should I be concerned about us eating any mold spores that are lurking?? > > Thanks! > --Sarabeth > ******************** Hello Sarabeth, It most likely was not mold, but rather a layer of yeast, which is harmless. If it was fuzzy/hairy, then it was mold, but if it was just a whitish/grey scum on top of the liquid, you are okay. You can remove most of it, but it isn't going to harm you or change the taste of the ferment. , Boise, Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I think that is up to the person eating it. The ones I've had that got moldy, also didn't smell right, so I didn't eat them. Plus I am very sensitive to the smell of mold: when we were making wine, if some of the berries that got into the wine were moldy, the whole batch was ruined from a taste perspective as far as we were concerned. But Sandor Katz wrote that he's just scraped the mold off his before eating sometimes. If you are not sure though, I think the ph can give you some guidance: vegies should be *sour* and if they are not, the bacterial mix probably isn't what you want. Mold usually won't grow on a mix that is sour. Also, like said: not all stuff floating on the top is mold. Ferments often get white scummy, bubbly or fuzzy stuff on top, which is yeast, and it doesn't hurt anything. I've also gotten white floaty things from sea salt, because they put an odd anti-caking agent into it. That sort of thing doesn't *smell* like mold though. On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 5:02 PM, walshseven <walshgam@...> wrote: > > Thank you . About the molds, if there is mold on the top of a > fermented veggie do you toss the whole thing out or just scrape the moldy > part off? > Ann > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 On this topic ~ I made the zucchini in miso ferment which turned out awesome. About a month after making it, I took it from the fridge and it had a couple of round circles of some growth on it. I tried to take it out to take a look at it but disturbed it but it dissolved back into the liquid. Could this have been yeast? It didn't grow anything after this. It's been several months since then and I have been eyeing it wondering if it is ok to eat. It doesn't smell bad. If it was mold, would it continue to grow? Thanks! --- In nutrition , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I haven't had that happen so I can't say. Miso seems mold-proof, in general. And to my brain, mold smells like mold. A TEEENY bit of mold sets my brain off, which probably means we are hard-wired to detect mold, and to dislike at least some species. On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Suzy <moonlion@...> wrote: > On this topic ~ I made the zucchini in miso ferment which turned out > awesome. About a month after making it, I took it from the fridge and it > had a couple of round circles of some growth on it. I tried to take it out > to take a look at it but disturbed it but it dissolved back into the liquid. > Could this have been yeast? It didn't grow anything after this. It's been > several months since then and I have been eyeing it wondering if it is ok to > eat. It doesn't smell bad. If it was mold, would it continue to grow? > > Thanks! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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