Re: Microbes for soil

[Guest guest]

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Suzy <moonlion@...> wrote:

> Anyone know how we can make some sort of probiotics for soil? I bought

> something that contains water, soil-based microorganisms, 76 trace minerals,

> molasses, humic, & kelp. I'm sensing from having talked with the person

> that it was done with some sort of kefir or something similar. I would like

> to make my own and would love some suggestions.

>

> Thank you.

>

I've been working with that some over the last year, with a fair bit of

success. Part of it is yes, getting some mycorrhizae spores and using soil

additives like kelp and worm tea. I take chicken manure and add it to the

worm bin, then use the worm muck and add it to something fluffy (like

coir).

However, another huge part of it is having a " home " for the microbes. Kind

of like kefir grains are to kefir. The soil will dry out and get wet, but

the microbes need something they can latch onto that provides both air and

water, and keeps the PH correct. And the watering situation has to be such

that there air/water mix works.

So the thing that works for microbes appears to be (from reading and

experimenting), bits of charcoal and bisque pottery. I cracked up charcoal

.... the hardwood kind, not briquettes ... and also some failed pots from a

pottery studio, and mixed that with the above mix. This seems to work very

well. There is a cool bit on it on a documentary:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8993313723654914866#

Now the second bit that is important is watering. The best kind of watering

for plants is where the water seeps up from the bottom. This makes a HUGE

difference! The plant can get exactly the right amount of water it needs.

The top of the soil stays dry, but the soil underneath is always a bit

moist. So the microbes can flourish. It's called " subirrigation " and it

makes for very happy plants: it's used in many greenhouse systems. But it's

easy to do. One good website for it is:

http://www.globalbuckets.org/

The " Earthboxes " basically use this system, but they are a bit expensive.

The next thing is air. If the dirt gets mucky and can't get air, you get

this very awful swampy smell, which basically means " not the right

bacteria " . Also, if you grow plants in plastic pots, then the roots get

" rootbound " ... they just go round and round the pot and don't take in

nutrients. So the big thing now is to use " grow bags " ... which the global

buckets guys are doing too. You can buy grow bags, or use jute coffee bags,

or old shopping bags. In these systems, the roots do something called " air

pruning " and get dense but don't go round and round, so the plant isn't

rootbound. However, the water goes away really quickly, so greenhouses

usually use this system for big trees, and use it with a drip irrigation

system, which is too much work for most people.

What I did was to sew some stiff landscape cloth into bags, with a strip

of absorbent material coming out the bottom. I set that into a bucket that

holds water, with some pottery shards and charcoal at the bottom (to keep

the water happy and discourage mosquitoes). The water comes up the wick,

into the awesome soil, and just the right rate. They don't need water added

often. The dirt stays at the perfect moistness, and the air gets in through

the porous sides. So far, the plants are just very happy and growing like

mad.

If the plants are outside, then the bucket that the bag sits in needs a

drainage hole, so it doesn't overfill with rain.

I am also experimenting with just using regular planting containers and

drilling a mess of holes in the sides, for air and root pruning. And I

bought some roof gutter ... I'm going to set a row of strawberry bags in the

gutter, so the little wicks can soak up water, but I only have to water one

side of the gutter. Again, I'll use pottery shards+charcoal both in the soil

and in the gutter ... the pottery shards can have their bacterial colony

going too.

It's a really simple system to set up: sounds more complicated than it is.

Finding pottery shards was the hardest part. You want some that are

basically terra cotta ... not fully fired ... so they are still porous.

Charcoal you can buy (though I'm learning to make it: making it is not easy

though). You can use the bags and charcoal without having pottery shards

though.

I'll be posting some pics on my blog soon, so you can see what I'm talking

about. But the links above are a good start!

--

[Guest guest]

After reading the book Teaming with Microbes a few years ago

http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microbes-Gardeners-Guide-Soil/dp/0881927775

we bought an actively aerated compost tea maker. I think it makes an amazing

difference.

Marcella

>

>

> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Suzy <moonlion@...> wrote:

>

> > Anyone know how we can make some sort of probiotics for soil? I bought

> > something that contains water, soil-based microorganisms, 76 trace

> minerals,

> > molasses, humic, & kelp. I'm sensing from having talked with the person

> > that it was done with some sort of kefir or something similar. I would

> like

> > to make my own and would love some suggestions.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Great info. Would love to read and see your post on this. Please take lots of

pics so I can get it all. I am confused as to the layering and mixing of all

the ingredients and whether this is combined with the soil or the soil is on top

of this and where exactly is the water ~ the pottery shards and charcoal are in

the water? I don't get how the bag is set in a bucket. How does it get air if

it is in a bucket?

I really like the bag idea and will do that for the fall crop for sure. (I live

in Florida).

I did set some global buckets up recently with the terra pretta idea. No idea

if I did it correctly. Time will tell.

Would it help my global buckets to drill some holes in the sides where the soil

is to get some more air in?

Thanks for the info. Please let us know when you post this.

--- In nutrition ,

[Guest guest]

Thanks Marcella. Can you give us an idea of how this works and what microbes it

uses/produces, etc.

> >

> > > Anyone know how we can make some sort of probiotics for soil? I bought

> > > something that contains water, soil-based microorganisms, 76 trace

> > minerals,

> > > molasses, humic, & kelp. I'm sensing from having talked with the person

> > > that it was done with some sort of kefir or something similar. I would

> > like

> > > to make my own and would love some suggestions.

> > >

> > > Thank you.

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it really needs pictures! It's hard to envision exactly what is going

on til you see it, then it's easy. But part of the problem is that when I

talk I mix up several of the " experiments " I've been doing so they get

conflated.

When you do a " global bucket " they really do need holes down in the water

reservoir, or the water gets rather icky. Which is what happened to me last

year. They started out well, but then some plants didn't do well. I think

the issue was the lack of aeration.

In addition, they could use some holes where the dirt is too!

Now, when you do a grow bag ... the grow bag needs to be on a water

reservoir. Some grow bags they sell just sit on a square block where the top

has some wicking material. So you have a cube bag on a flat plastic block,

with water in the block. Like this:

http://www.gardeners.com/Self-Watering-Tray/38-561,default,pd.html

However, my bags are tall and thin, so they would tip over if I did that. My

idea was to have several bags sitting together in one bigger container, with

water in the bottom of the container. The bags don't necessarily touch ... I

can fill the space with pottery or landscape cloth or moss or a rock here

and there, and there is still plenty of air circulation. But it's easy to

move the bags as needed, so if one plant is getting really big, I can just

set it somewhere else. The roots don't compete with other plants either.

To visualize ... think of, say, a tube sock made out of stiff fabric or

screen wire, with a piece of flannel hanging out of the bottom. So about 7

inches high, and 4 inches in diameter.

I'm still not clear on what the best kind of " outer container " is. I've been

experimenting with many different kinds. They all seem to work. As long as

the bags aren't super-crammed together, there is air space between them,

since the bags are round. I have some in buckets, some in old planters.

Now as for the charcoal and shards ... they are mixed in with potting soil.

I also mix in worm castings, green sand, kelp, fish manure. And put old

leaves etc. at the bottom of the bag for composting. However, I ALSO have

them in the water, esp. the pottery shards, to help keep the bags out of

standing water, and to keep mosquitoes out. Pretty much any spacer would

work, but pottery shards and charcoal also help purify the water.

On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Suzy <moonlion@...> wrote:

> Great info. Would love to read and see your post on this. Please take

> lots of pics so I can get it all. I am confused as to the layering and

> mixing of all the ingredients and whether this is combined with the soil or

> the soil is on top of this and where exactly is the water ~ the pottery

> shards and charcoal are in the water? I don't get how the bag is set in a

> bucket. How does it get air if it is in a bucket?

>

> I really like the bag idea and will do that for the fall crop for sure. (I

> live in Florida).

>

> I did set some global buckets up recently with the terra pretta idea. No

> idea if I did it correctly. Time will tell.

>

> Would it help my global buckets to drill some holes in the sides where the

> soil is to get some more air in?

>

> Thanks for the info. Please let us know when you post this.

>

> --- In nutrition ,

[Guest guest]

The key word here is aerated. Aerated compost tea increases the beneficial

mmicrobes exponentially. An easy way to do it is to go to a big box store that

sells aquarium. Get a 10 gal. gucket, put in a few handfuls of compost in a

burlap bag and put it in the bucket. Fill it up with water. If you use

chlorinated water, then let it set 24 hours before using. Get a small air pump

at theplace that sells aquariums about $5, get 3 stone bubblers, a divider and

tubing to connect the pump to the divider and then to the bubblers. Put the

pump and bubblers in and wait 24- 72 hours. It should smell like humus and not

like a sewer. There are variations on ingredients depending on what you use it

on and what you want the plants to do such as for seedlings, antifungal,

fertiliaing,, etc.

GB

--- In nutrition ,