Re: Re: Fermenting jars with air locks?

[Guest guest]

Carrot leaves or cabbage leaves? I have done that too though: the shoulders

on jars exist mainly so you can stuff the vegies under the shoulder in

" normal " canning, and they will stay under the brine. If you salt cabbage

leaves for a bit they get soft and it's easy to bend them into shapes: the

salted cabbage won't mold easily either. The Korean method is to use a

" paste " over the areas exposed to the air, which also prevents mold.

Grape leaves work too. Either one is GREAT for cabbage rolls or dolmathes

.... I think it's the way you SHOULD make those things actually. When kraut

was made in big barrels they would add whole heads of cabbage to the batch,

and let the entire head ferment (which I guess gives you lots of leaves for

cabbage rolls!).

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 6:10 AM, moozy <moozy21@...> wrote:

> I use the old rolled carrot leaves on top that I " tuck " into the edges and

> press down tightly so the liquid overflows the leaves on top. I have never

> in a few yers of fermenting have had one bad batch. Simple and effective. Oh

> and my husband eagerly awaits my harvesting to eat the top leaves. I read on

> another list that these were used for cabbage rolls in olden days when they

> wisely knew to ferment foods!

>

> Millie

>

>

--

[Guest guest]

That's pretty much how kraut was made in the old days, although they

used a crock rather than a bowl. It works fine, and I did my first few

batches that way.

Here is why I stopped: during the summer, it attracted flies. The flies laid

eggs

in the brine, which, amazingly enough, hatched. NOT appetizing. It is

possible

to keep the flies out with netting, but difficult.

So then I got a Harsch crock, which kept the flies out. But, to store

the kraut, I had to decant it from the crock into smaller

jars to go into the fridge. So all in all, I decided to just ferment right

in

the smaller jars.

You don't need to use a tall Mason jar though. Any ol' jar will do, that

has a plastic lid. And any ol' piece of ceramic will work too (or

plastic, for that matter) that is the right shape to either fit under the

shoulder, or weight it down, or be forced down by the lid.

You can certainly use a bowl during the winter months though,

in most parts of the country. Food-grade plastic buckets are

used by some Koreans for kimchi.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:56 AM, claire <cht@...> wrote:

> Hi all,

> wondering why we need to use a tall mason jar and dunkers? why can't I

> use a wide bowl with a plate to keep the floaters down?

>

> btw, I use a 2Qt mason jar with a used, clean tamari bottle filled with

> clean water as my weight. I put a plastic bag over both tops to keep things

> from floating into the brine.

>

> I might just try a wider bowl with a plate for my next batch...... I just

> tried " pickle kraut " like what Farmhouse culture makes at our famers markets

> here. Sliced cucs with cabbage, seasoned with pickling herbs- garlic, dill,

> mustard seed. My son won't eat much plain kraut, but loves pickle kraut.

>

> claire

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Like , my interest in using jars is just to save a couple of labor

steps: 1) decanting finished kraut into jars, and 2) cleaning the larger

fermenting container.

I did my first batch in a 6 gal wine fermentation bucket. It's nothing

fancy--just a white food grade bucket with a lid. The lid has a hole

drilled on top for an airllock. The results were excellent, but it was

tedious packing the finished kraut into jars.

Actually, my second batch is underway in the same bucket because I don't

have the " dunkers " yet. I'm waiting until I have other stuff I need to

order from Amazon so I can get free shipping I'm still a little

concerned about the potential for pressurizing the jars. The kraut

fermentation doesn't produce nearly as much CO2 as wine does, but it

wouldn't take much to pressurize a tightly sealed jar. I may still try

rigging up some lids with air locks.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:56 PM, claire <cht@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi all,

> wondering why we need to use a tall mason jar and dunkers? why can't I use

> a wide bowl with a plate to keep the floaters down?

>

> btw, I use a 2Qt mason jar with a used, clean tamari bottle filled with

> clean water as my weight. I put a plastic bag over both tops to keep things

> from floating into the brine.

>

> I might just try a wider bowl with a plate for my next batch...... I just

> tried " pickle kraut " like what Farmhouse culture makes at our famers markets

> here. Sliced cucs with cabbage, seasoned with pickling herbs- garlic, dill,

> mustard seed. My son won't eat much plain kraut, but loves pickle kraut.

>

> claire

>

>

>

--

Regards,

Harkness

[Guest guest]

The easiest way to prevent the wide-mouth jars from " pressurizing " is to

use a plastic lid ... these are sold where they sell canning jars, and

the plastic deforms under pressure. I like the plastic lids for the

sheer convenience of them ... they never rust, and they are in one piece,

and they are cheap.

But otherwise, just screw the metal ring on loosely, so the lid can pop

up if it needs to. You can also take off some of the rubber or oil it

with olive oil so it doesn't stick. Or put a small piece of plastic under

the rubber part to make a tiny air space. Kraut really doesn't make

all that much air in general, but it's easy enough to allow gas to

escape without special lids.

The very best fermenting jars though, if you can find them, are the glass

kimchi jars they sell kimchi in. These are really heavy glass, with nice

plastic lids. The kimchi isn't half bad either.

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Harkness <davidharkness@...>wrote:

> Like , my interest in using jars is just to save a couple of labor

> steps: 1) decanting finished kraut into jars, and 2) cleaning the larger

> fermenting container.

>

> I did my first batch in a 6 gal wine fermentation bucket. It's nothing

> fancy--just a white food grade bucket with a lid. The lid has a hole

> drilled on top for an airllock. The results were excellent, but it was

> tedious packing the finished kraut into jars.

>

> Actually, my second batch is underway in the same bucket because I don't

> have the " dunkers " yet. I'm waiting until I have other stuff I need to

> order from Amazon so I can get free shipping I'm still a little

> concerned about the potential for pressurizing the jars. The kraut

> fermentation doesn't produce nearly as much CO2 as wine does, but it

> wouldn't take much to pressurize a tightly sealed jar. I may still try

> rigging up some lids with air locks.

>

> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:56 PM, claire <cht@...> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> > wondering why we need to use a tall mason jar and dunkers? why can't I

> use

> > a wide bowl with a plate to keep the floaters down?

> >

> > btw, I use a 2Qt mason jar with a used, clean tamari bottle filled with

> > clean water as my weight. I put a plastic bag over both tops to keep

> things

> > from floating into the brine.

> >

> > I might just try a wider bowl with a plate for my next batch...... I just

> > tried " pickle kraut " like what Farmhouse culture makes at our famers

> markets

> > here. Sliced cucs with cabbage, seasoned with pickling herbs- garlic,

> dill,

> > mustard seed. My son won't eat much plain kraut, but loves pickle kraut.

> >

> > claire

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Regards,

> Harkness

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 2:10 PM, claire <cht@...> wrote:

> Thanks !

>

> If I used a wide mouth jar-crock-bowl then a plate or dunker to cover,

> couldn't I just cover the whole thing with a lid or plastic bag/wrap since

> it won't touch the food?

>

Sure.

>

> what is the point of an airlock lid? as long as the food stays anaerobic

> under the brine, all is good right?

>

The point of an airlock is to let the gas out, but not let flies in. It's

not so much about air ...

kraut doesn't care about air much, and the CO2 is heavier than air anyway so

it will set

in the jar or other container.

The reason you want to keep the kraut under brine though, is to prevent mold

and a dried

out top. There are multiple ways to do this: a layer of oil will work, or a

paste of peppers and

salt and acid, or a salted cabbage leaf, or a weight, or a spacer.

> I've also got a question about " pickle " kraut..... I made some with cucs

> and cabbage and garlic, dill, mustard seed. But now that it's done, the

> mustard seeds are mixed into the kraut (instead of floating around like in

> pickle juice) and it's a bit too hot/spicy for our son.... Any thoughts on

> how to get them back out of the kraut after a ferment?

>

If kraut is " too much " in any direction, you can just rinse it, like you

would rice.

It takes away a lot of the acidity and spiciness, but sometimes that is what

you want! It's a good trick if you use too much salt too. Actually the old

recipes

for things like " salt cod " involved many changes of water to get the extra

salt out.

Kraut mixed with balsamic vinegar and a little oil is very palatable to

people

who don't ordinarily like " ferments " too. Fermented vegies are a great

" ingredient " and can be snuck into foods like soups and cassaroles, where

they add flavor but don't shout SOUR! I knew a guy once who made

" saeurkraut cake "

which was a chocolate cake that was awesome, and didn't taste at all like

kraut.